The Reading Room

4:24 AM

0

Q: Should Go Set a Watchman change our view of Atticus defending Tom Robinson?

I do realize that the passage of To Kill a Mockingbird where Atticus defended Tom Robinson has been heavily analyzed elsewhere at this point. However, it seems like most people got the impression that Atticus's choice to give Tom Robinson a competent defense reflected a progressive view of race o...

Mithrandir

9:03 AM

*yawn*

Mithrandir

9:17 AM

Ooog. I was looking to see if the school that Eileen Blair went to still existed, so that I could ask them for a copy of the poem that she wrote, but they closed last year. >.<

Riker

lol

Mithrandir

I could email the organization that owned it, though... Hmm....

Ah, found it. It was proving elusive :P

Riker

rip

Mithrandir

?

connectingsingles.com/poem14741/end-of-the-century-1984.htm

Mithrandir

12:49 PM

Hello @doppelgreener, @Anonymous.

Anonymous

@Mithrandir Hello!

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Hello!

Mithrandir

@Benjamin *tips hat*

@Anonymous *waves*

Anonymous

✋ high five @Mithrandir

doppelgreener

Ahoy!

Congrats on the mod diamond!

Mithrandir

12:53 PM

:D

@Anonymous *high fives*

Anonymous

Anonymous ♦ is also a moderator

Mithrandir

*amused* I did that a couple times.

Anonymous

Pro team moderator means?

Mithrandir

(tem). It means that I wasn't elected; the community managers appointed me.

Anonymous

Oh,that's great, congratulations!

Mithrandir

1:00 PM

Thanks!

doppelgreener

"Pro tem" means "for now"

Mithrandir

Right. Until the site graduates/I step down.

doppelgreener

Yeah

In political terminology it means more or less someone acting in the stead of the person who should properly be in that position but who is absent -- which would be elected moderators, though we're not at that stage just yet.

That doesn't make them any less legitimately moderators. Some of the people who were already moderators elsewhere said that pro tem moderation can even be a bit tougher than moderation of a graduated site.

Mithrandir

But hopefully the site will graduate soon, and then I can run for mod really :P

Anonymous

Good luck

doppelgreener

1:05 PM

@Mithrandir It was good to see your response & the feedback and support you received from other moderators or network seniors. :) It's pretty great to have someone as young as you in a position like this.

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Well, you may be reelected.

Mithrandir

:D

Benjamin

@Mithrandir We haven't even reached 90 days yet and we have lost some momentum.

Mithrandir

@Benjamin right. Have to work on promoting the site more... Hmm...

Benjamin

0

A: Should Go Set a Watchman change our view of Atticus defending Tom Robinson?

Aside from the debate over whether Atticus had a progressive view on race that Hamlet raised, the answer is no because they are two different Atticus Finches. In this answer, it is pointed out that Lee focused more on social tension in To Kill A Mockingbird than in Go Set A Watchman and therefore...

What is thought of this answer?

Bookworm

3:09 PM

0

Q: Where does this Federico Garcia Lorca quote comes from? Is it a fake?

The quote is the following: Besides black art, there is only automation and mechanization. I ran into this quote in a book named Site Reliability Engineering: How Google Runs Production Systems at the beginning of chapter 7: The Evolution of Automation at Google. The book claims it is a ...

quote-identification

Beastly Gerbil

3:25 PM

@Mithrandir now what should I do?

Mithrandir

...

Buy a copy of the book? :P

Beastly Gerbil

Er I'm not spending £11 on a book for an answer which is currently at -1

@Mithrandir can you remove the notice now? It is now more than a line and has citations

Mithrandir

It's been gone for a few minutes

Beastly Gerbil

Oh I just hadn't reloaded the page sorry

I'll clear up some of my comments too

Well I can't improve the answer now in any way so...

Mithrandir

Check Amazon, see if they have a preview.

Beastly Gerbil

3:31 PM

I've checked they don't

Goodreads neither

Rand al'Thor

@BeastlyGerbil library.globalchalet.net/Authors/Poetry%20Books%20Collection/…

Beastly Gerbil

ooh thanks!

Mithrandir

books.google.co.il/…

Beastly Gerbil

yeah checked there

@Randal'Thor hmm, quote not in there yet the quote is definitely from that book?

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir Out of curiosity, does my last comment on that answer show up as having been edited? When I edited it just now, it had already been deleted, but I didn't get an error message.

@BeastlyGerbil Maybe it was translated differently? Or, since the passages in that book only say "from Poet in New York", maybe it's a piece that didn't make it in there.

Mithrandir

3:35 PM

@Randal'Thor I'm actually not on my computer, and the mod thing doesn't show up on mobile, so I can't see the deleted comments ATM...

Rand al'Thor

Oh, never mind then.

in Mos Eisley, Jun 6 '15 at 17:51, by Richard

The mod controls on the mobile app are a piece of crap

Beastly Gerbil

@Randal'Thor well I doubt the book was 23 pages, so it may have been omitted from that preview

Rand al'Thor

3:52 PM

Well, now I've got the Pundit badge on both main and meta.

Apparently other people need to be more commenty.

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor Yes, it shows up as being edited.

Oh cool. I can see the history of comments.

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir That's a new thing.

Only been true for less than 4 months.

Mithrandir

Interesting.

Beastly Gerbil

hmm another downvote...

What can I do? I don't want anymore downvotes, but I don't want to delete the question as it is the correct answer, and I can't improve it anymore? :(

Mithrandir

*answer

32 mins ago, by Mithrandir

Buy a copy of the book? :P

Beastly Gerbil

4:01 PM

yeah but serious answer...

Benjamin

@BeastlyGerbil Make it CW

Let someone else improve it.

Beastly Gerbil

@Benjamin good idea

Rand al'Thor

@Benjamin ...

Did you see all the drama last time someone did that?

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor ???

Beastly Gerbil

What happened last time?

Benjamin

4:03 PM

@Randal'Thor Yes.

Beastly Gerbil

So should I or shouldn't I?

Rand al'Thor

@BeastlyGerbil A big debate on meta between some SFF people, some Lit.SE mods and users, and a CM.

@BeastlyGerbil I don't see much point in doing so, unless you really think someone else is likely to come along and edit it.

Beastly Gerbil

@Randal'Thor it's more to stop downvotes

done

Rand al'Thor

@BeastlyGerbil Then no. That's not what CW is for.

3

Beastly Gerbil

I have anyway, someone can come along if they find/know the exact quote

Rand al'Thor

4:06 PM

5

A: What are the guidelines for marking an answer as community wiki?

An answer should be made community wiki only when it's such a collaborative effort that no single person wants to take full credit for it. If many different people have contributed comparable amounts of input to an answer, making it community wiki is a way to ensure that the collaborative effort...

7

Q: Why is this answer a community wiki?

Why was this answer made into a wiki? Should a moderator remove its community wiki status?

discussion support community-wiki

Beastly Gerbil

Yeah I saw that one

steelersquirrel

Death by Community Wiki!!! It's mass hysteria!!! :P

Rand al'Thor

Now we need to trick @Mithrandir into de-CW-ifying your answer :-P

Beastly Gerbil

No please don't!

My reputation in the drop down list is 15 more than my site rep??

Rand al'Thor

Anyway, @Beastly ... thing is, the OP already knows that quote is credited to Lorca all over the internet. They're looking for canonical proof and a more exact citation, but all you've really provided is more hearsay from the internet. I didn't downvote your answer, but that's probably why it's getting downvoted.

2

Beastly Gerbil

4:11 PM

He asked what work it was from, I found that out

'but it does not provide any information regarding which García Lorca work it comes from.'

Doesn't say anything about full quote...

Rand al'Thor

True. That's why I haven't downvoted your answer :-)

Beastly Gerbil

Thanks :P Others don't seem to have noticed I've actually answered the question :(

Mithrandir

4:24 PM

@BeastlyGerbil right, but a full quote would prove that it came from there.

@Randal'Thor nope, not testing that one :P

b_jonas

5:05 PM

How's the moderation going? Have you new mods lost your first point of San score yet?

2

And if so, is it a permanent loss or temporary?

Rand al'Thor

5:28 PM

@b_jonas They didn't lose any points, because they made all their mod actions CW :-P

3

Mithrandir

7:51 PM

@Randal'Thor well, we are community Moderators :P

Mithrandir

8:13 PM

Good, @Gilles found the answer! I spent an hour on Google looking for it :/

Gilles

@Mithrandir I spent about 2 minutes on Google to find that it was from an interview, and about 10 minutes to find the original text

Mithrandir

I guess I was searching for the wrong things :/

Gilles

I hesitated making my answer CW to encourage people to contribute a better translation. I'm sure there are places where I got it wrong.

Mithrandir

Also, my Spanish is nonexistent, soo...

Gilles

So is mine. I used a combination of knowing French and Google Translate.

Mithrandir

8:23 PM

Well, good for you! I don't speak French either :P

doppelgreener

8:54 PM

@Randal'Thor Over on RPG.SE we've decided Community Wiki is basically pointless for just about any practical situation we'd face:

15

Q: How should we use Community Wiki, Part III

In the beginning, RPG.SE was Community Wiki crazy. We used it for everything. We have an old Meta question on what to use CW for. But then we realized list questions were bad and CW was being used as a dumping ground for bad questions. So now CW is anathema. Some hunt down and kill old CW questi...

discussion faq community-wiki

It's only here because there's no reason to remove it.

BESW

9:11 PM

@Mithrandir This is an excellent example of why "you can google that" is not a good reason to downvote, close, or make something off-topic.

Googling is a skill like any other, and it's even possible to be good at Googling one kind of thing but bad at Googling another. So being able to Google up an answer is one of the things our experts can do.

doppelgreener

9:28 PM

@BESW There's an awful lot of times I've been completely unable to find what I'm looking for on Google, but you've found it on the front page from the keywords you chose.

Part of that can be Google's filter bubble -- it gives each of us different results because it thinks they're the kinds of results we want to see.

user61230

10:06 PM

@doppelgreener Worth noting that most pro tem positions last years. (*empirical data only)

Hamlet

10:22 PM

I down voted this question because I don't think quote identification (or story identification) questions are good for the site. (Note that this is my personal opinion and not site policy.) — Hamlet ♦ 4 hours ago

Mithrandir

Time traveling edits :P

Hamlet

People always say that they want people who downvote to leave comments, but I'm not always sure if it's the best idea. Particularly in cases where there's nothing the OP can do to improve the question; it's just my personal opinion on a class of questions.

Mithrandir

Especially with a diamond, it's not always a good idea. Diamonds saying why they downvoted might start a trend :/

user61230

...of people saying why they downvoted?

BESW

I'm a big fan of using comments for their primary function: improving posts.

Many reasons for downvoting don't imply a way to improve the post being downvoted.

Mithrandir

10:32 PM

@Emrakul no, of downvotes...

BESW

So leaving a comment saying, for example, "I disagree with your basic premise" tends to just lead to comment arguments.

Hamlet

@BESW I agree completely, leaving that comment was an experiment I don't think I'll repeat

BESW

Personally I think quote/story ID questions are an important and valid part of this site's set of services, and would only become a problem if they somehow drowned out all other topics. Which I don't see happening.

Rand al'Thor

@BESW Agreed.

BESW

In fact, ID questions are probably most Stack-like kind of questions we're liable to get, in the 'actionable solutions to actual problems' sense.

Rand al'Thor

10:37 PM

Well, them and reading-order questions.

BESW

[grin] Yeeessss.

Rand al'Thor

I made the "practically useful" point in my defence of both those kinds of question on Lit meta.

Also, if Hamlet and Emrak are both anti-ID-questions, I'm glad it was Mithrandir and not DForck who became the 3rd mod ;-)

It's nice to have a range of different views within a mod team - helps to avoid (perhaps unconscious) bias.

BESW

Eyup.

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor I promise to uphold my oath and defend ID questions vigorously :P

As of right now, however, it is a quarter to one in the morning. I'm going to sleep. Adieu.

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir :-D

Goodnight!

Hamlet

10:45 PM

Any thoughts on my answer here (and the question in general)

4

A: How many gables are there in the four-gabled house?

First of all, thank you for posting this question. I would never have found out about the story "The Fifth Gable" without this question. The entire story reminds me of the Mayan creation story The Popol Vuh (a literal translation and a less literal translation are available for free online). I d...

I thought the connection to Mesoamerican cosmology was really interesting, even if it was unintentional

Also, the short story that question is about is well worth reading

Benjamin

11:02 PM

@Mithrandir Actually, I don't think you are.

user61230

I'm going to clean up the starboard, unless someone particularly minds.

Benjamin

@Emrakul How?

user61230

Mods can de-star messages.

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul Which messages?

Benjamin

@Emrakul Well, is there another method because on principle I am skeptical of that.

Try making a public list of which ones you destar.

Rand al'Thor

11:07 PM

@Benjamin ?

Benjamin

@Emrakul This might be a good meta issue.

user61230

I don't know how else I could clean up the starboard except by de-starring things.

user61230

Huh?

user61230

No, someone just starred every message since "Time travelling edits"

Rand al'Thor

Oh good lord, I only just noticed that.

Riker

11:08 PM

o_O

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor Doesn't "community moderator" specifically refer to the site employees who moderate?

BESW

in RPG General Chat, May 10 '16 at 21:41, by BESW

Hey, folks, this is your semi-yearly reminder that The room sidebar is intended to be a collaboratively created mini-timeline of interesting room events for people who don't have time to read the entire chat transcript for that particular room. Stars aren't "like" buttons, and if you star several things from a short period of chat it pushes the other cool stuff off too fast.

user61230

That's what I want to clean up.

Benjamin

@Emrakul Not actually, only certain ones.

Rand al'Thor

@Benjamin No, that's "community manager".

Benjamin

11:09 PM

@Emrakul Then, I'm fine with it if you leave a list.

@Randal'Thor Oh, okay.

@Emrakul Star better things more.

Rand al'Thor

@Benjamin Are you the mass-starrer? :-)

Benjamin

Pin some stuff, that sort of thing.

user61230

@Benjamin Huh?

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor I time-warped and started what I liked.

@Emrakul Find some comments to star to fill the board up.

user61230

@Benjamin I genuinely don't understand. There are a lot of comments on the star-board besides the conversation that was just starred.

Benjamin

11:10 PM

I just responded to the same thing twice.

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul Trouble is, it's hard to tell which of those are 'genuine' stars (because someone actually found the comment useful/noteworthy) and which are just being silly.

Benjamin

@Emrakul So, then I don't see what the problem is, could you try to explain. You can also pin stuff.

@Randal'Thor Everything I did was genuine.

2

Rand al'Thor

@Benjamin Then why, for instance, star Mithrandir going to bed?

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor That wasn't me.

user61230

I... I'm just gonna clean it up... since... I keep asking, but I'm not sure what the objection is.

Benjamin

11:13 PM

@Emrakul Well, it is that it makes it seem as if the general population has different thoughts then they had.

Rand al'Thor

I removed a few of the sillier stars. The remaining ones all seem to be on actually interesting policy-related messages, which people might find important or worth starring.

2

user61230

This isn't really worth it, nevermind.

user61230

In the future, please don't star every message in a conversation. Stars aren't upvotes - they're a timeline of interesting things in the room.

8

Benjamin

@Emrakul I would star this if I wasn't out of votes.

BESW

...irony?

Benjamin

11:18 PM

@BESW Yes.

user61230

Benjamin

@Emrakul My fault.

user61230

@Benjamin Don't worry about it, it happens!

BESW

@Hamlet Without having read the short story, it strikes me as a bit... tenuous... of a connection, but interesting nonetheless.

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul Darn, I was looking forward to Act II: Chat Stars to follow Act I: Community Wiki in the hot new literary drama :-P

Benjamin

11:27 PM

@Randal'Thor It is definitely an issue for meta.

BESW

The chat FAQ is pretty clear, I think.

> The room sidebar is intended to be a collaboratively created mini-timeline of interesting room events for people who don't have time to read the entire chat transcript for that particular room.

Rand al'Thor

11:46 PM

@Benjamin Well, mods do have the power to clear stars exactly for situations when stars are being misused. The only question is what constitutes misuse, which (like many mod decisions) often has to come down to case-by-case judgement and "I know it when I see it".

BESW

See also: this is why it's often good to designate a non-mod room owner.

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