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12:05 AM
Q: How 'human' are the animals in The Wind in the Willows meant to look?

Rand al'ThorI always imagined the animals in Kenneth Grahame's The Wind in the Willows - Mole, Ratty, Badger, Toad, and so on - to be actual animals, clearly anthropomorphised to some extent (walking on two legs, able to row boats and drive cars, and so on) but still essentially anatomically nonhuman. So I w...

Nice Q. Now I've got to do some research. :\
@Mick I thought you'd appreciate that one :-)
@Mick Check what kind of contact the original illustrator had with the author.
That's usually a solid lead.
Oh, good idea!
Speaking of illustrations, @BESW, would you be willing to make a nice literature-related image for use in Community Promotion Ads for this site across the network?
IIRC you have some professional skill in that area, and I'd like to get all the Literature CPAs updated once we move into public beta.
this is why rand would make a good mod
he thinks ahead to what needs to get done soon, and starts preparing for it
Hmmm. I'm kinda swamped right now. What kind of timeline are we looking at, and am I being asked to come up with the design from whole cloth or will there be some themes or visuals for me to work from?
(I'm currently trying to design a poster for a production of The Crucible which is treating the script as a historical drama rather than a political allegory.)
(And, you know. Two other logos and a set of game icons, a class on using Mac programs with tools for the visually impaired, computer learning certification...)
12:21 AM
@Randal'Thor 10 silver badges? Geez.
@BESW Well, we go public in (at least) 6 days, but there's no rush - we can always use some generic image until you have the time to make something better.
As for themes or visuals ... perhaps I should make a post about this on meta, so that everyone can chip in with ideas.
@HDE226868 Yep. I got four just today (Strunk & White, Civic Duty, and two Enlightened).
Wait what! 10?
That's like... The number I have on Open Source
After 550 something days
To get 10 badges after 15 days... Wowz
@Randal'Thor The more clearly a client has defined their message before they call me in, the easier and cheaper my work is.
@Zizouz212 Well, at least you have some golds too. Nobody has a gold here yet, except HDE on meta.
@BESW Really? I have yet to see it done like that.
12:26 AM
Yeah, but I don't have a gold here
My golds there are Fanatic, Electorate and Constable
@BESW Fair enough. I was more making preliminary inquiries than officially 'calling you in' :-) Like Riker said, thinking ahead.
All of which are impossible to get here
@HDE226868 I'm... not impressed so far. I figure if you want to do a play about the Salem witch trials, there's plenty of options which aren't just using that setting as an allegory for McCarthyism. Seems like the text will be fighting you every step of the way.
@Zizouz212 Oh, the easy golds :-P
lol yeah :P
Seriously though, I think Constable was the easiest
I don't exactly do much as a mod
4 Answers, highest at -2 I don't even know what to do... :(
12:30 AM
Speaking of which, I just got Sheriff over on SFF.
@Randal'Thor Gotcha. I'm just laying down parameters--if I'm being asked to invent the whole thing, that'll take longer and be more effort, so I won't be able to slot it in as quickly.
@Zizouz212 Wait?
-2, -3, -3, -6
Welcome to Literature SE! Where all you can do is disagree!
@Zizouz212 I'm not really sure what else people expected. The last hundred or two years of Western literary analysis have been almost nothing but teapot-sized tempests.
@BESW I studied that concurrently with historical writings (as well as modern fiction inspired from them) from the period, pertaining to the subject, and I'm going to have to agree with you there.
12:35 AM
@HDE226868 So I'm sort of at a loss for how to present this on a poster. [sigh]
I figure the accurate thing to do would be using ren-faire visuals.
12:53 AM
@Randal'Thor Hmm. Less "what should it look like" and more "What message should it convey," perhaps.
Edited in some more specific questions at the bottom.
And flagged to ask for a tag.
@HDE226868 I'm so glad that I have another person who declined a nomination. Now I don't feel so alone ;)
@steelersquirrel If you like, I'll post a nomination for BESW too ;-)
1:07 AM
@steelersquirrel Well, you're still the only one to decline after getting formally nominated . . . but yeah, I don't really want the job, either. :-)
@Randal'Thor Hehehe! I just felt bad for Skooba because I declined. I didn't want to seem ungrateful. I'm just glad that I am not alone now!!!
@HDE226868 Yeah. I just don't have the personality to be a mod. I would rather just be a contributor to the community. I hear ya! I wouldn't want some of the stuff that mods have to deal with!
@steelersquirrel When someone tries to get you a job which involves making all the tough decisions and being blamed for everything, why shouldn't you be ungrateful? :-P
What was it Shog said?
Jan 19 at 0:14, by Shog9
@bleh No one in their right mind wants to be a protem mod. Those are the folks who have to deal with all of the bitter arguments that spring up in the early days of a site, who get all the blame when crap isn't dealt with but called names and spat on when they try to exercise any authority. So rand would be a good fit.
Oh, wait, @steeler isn't in her right mind anyway ;-)
I'm wary of anyone who's eager to be a moderator.
Hehehe! True!!!!
@BESW Good point. The worst thing is a moderator who takes their job a little too seriously.
> "Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?"
"I — I don't think I do, Sir," said Caspian. "I'm only a kid."
"Good," said Aslan. "If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been a proof that you were not."
I did notice there were surprisingly few self-nominations here.
Only DForck, fi12, Skooba, and Chenmunka. And DForck is the only popular choice among them.
1:19 AM
I didn't know that DForck was a mod over on M&TV a long time ago.
@steelersquirrel I believe it was DForck, TylerShads, and iandotkelly back in the beta days.
But iandotkelly was the only one who wanted to continue after graduation.
Ahhhh...gotcha. We rarely see him over there.
1:33 AM
On another note...I just got back from skiing today!!
@steelersquirrel did you hvae fun?
@Riker I did have fun! I love skiing!
never been myself
It's fun! I tried snowboarding last time I went. I failed miserably ;)
1:54 AM
ah nice
2:36 AM
Q: Is there a recommended reading order for Jane Austen's work?

DVKFor someone who never read any of Jane Austen's books, what would be a recommended reading order for her works to start off with and why?

5 hours later…
7:55 AM
Q: Ancient Egyptian Book Identification

ZxyrraA couple years ago, I read a book which I would like to revisit. I don't remember much, but here's what I have. Setting is Ancient Egypt One of the primary characters is a Pharaoh or other reputable monarch (definitely female) Religion is a major aspect of the book Plot may have been a mystery...

8:15 AM
Can we get this reopened?
Q: What are the challenges in translating a work of literature?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'BʀɪᴇɴI'm currently in the process of reading Cyrano de Bergerac (translated by Charles Renauld). There, an introduction is made by Adolphe Cohn, said to be the Professor of the Romance languages and Literatures in Columbia University. You can find a copy on Project Gutenberg, here. He says: … for...

It's not a stellar question, but the updated version is ok, and DVK's answer is on-point
8:34 AM
@Gallifreyan The problem is that the existence of an answer doesn't always help a question
Personally, I'm kinda mixed about the question. But I'm tired.
Q: Let's design an ad for our site

Rand al'ThorThere are a lot of Community Promotion Ads for Literature SE on various other sites around the network, which a few of us posted up during the Definition stage of the Area 51 proposal: Science Fiction & Fantasy (by me) English Language & Usage (by @Helmar) Worldbuilding (by me) Movies & TV (by ...

9:01 AM
What do people think? ^ (spent 10 minutes, that's it)
9:16 AM
@Mithrandir Basic rule of thumb for design: Use two fonts, one serif and one sans, and use them to differentiate between kinds of meaning.
Not sure what that means :P
You've got three typefaces (not counting the icon text), and switch between them (in fact, between a serif and a sans) each sentence rather than to signal content changes.
Okay, thanks.
Lesseee. Favicon.
9:29 AM
The lit-in-a-speech-bubble logo you used on the ad. It's the website logo that appears on a person's browser tab, and the technical term is favicon.
Yeah, I know. What about it?
But it's very very small and doesn't blow up nicely--hence why it looks fuzzy in your ad.
I like the idea of using it, but I'd have to either track down/request a larger version or rebuild it myself.
(Interestingly, the /favicon.ico file is NOT what I'm seeing in my own browser as the site's favicon.)
9:34 AM
The text is in caps on my browser interface, and lowercase at /favicon.ico
(I redrew the favicon)
(And changed the second line to the same font)
Better, though you've (quite reasonably) not matched the favicon font.
It's the same as the second paragraph
@Mithrandir wait till public beta
@Librarian ohhhh, got it
@Mithrandir It's not. The logo text is sans serif, the blurb is serif.
9:39 AM
? I thought I used the same thing...
52 mins ago, by Librarian
Q: Let's design an ad for our site

Rand al'ThorThere are a lot of Community Promotion Ads for Literature SE on various other sites around the network, which a few of us posted up during the Definition stage of the Area 51 proposal: Science Fiction & Fantasy (by me) English Language & Usage (by @Helmar) Worldbuilding (by me) Movies & TV (by ...

1 min ago, by Ankit Sharma
@Librarian ohhhh, got it

 Literature Community Ad

Designing ads for Literature SE. See meta.literature.stackexch...
@Mithrandir Don't put the cart before the horse. Start on the meta by helping craft a message.
Propose your "read any good books lately?" as a starting point for discussion.
10:12 AM
If we haven't got any discussion going after the meta's been up about a day, I'll post something to kick-start it.
11:07 AM
@BESW Do we need to post a mock-up image or only a phrase to go on it?
@Benjamin Message--that's not necessarily how it looks or what text it has, but what it's trying to communicate. Who is our audience? What can they do for us and what can we do for them? What feelings do we want people to have about lit.se?
@BESW Okay.
For example: are we an ivory tower of learning, a friendly local bookstore, or a private library?
1 hour later…
12:18 PM
@Mithrandir Sorry about the "are".
@Benjamin I just approved the edit by improving it :P
@Mithrandir Oh, does that always work?
@Benjamin Yes; when someone wants to Approve and Edit, or Reject and Edit, they bypass the rest of the voting required and the edit automatically gets approved/rejected
1 hour later…
1:32 PM
Woo, just got my email with my Google Code In certificate.
2:08 PM
@Mithrandir Oh, since you were interested ... I found the site with four pro-tems: Language Learning.
Our policy is normally to only select 3 pro-tem moderators. However, one of the moderators was absent when the initial invitation was sent out, only to respond at the same time as we selected a new choice. Ergo, we appointed 4 this time around. — Grace Note ♦ Jun 14 '16 at 17:43
@Randal'Thor Ah. Chinese has 4 though?
Also, I like my second ad better.
So it looks like I was wrong and they didn't appoint 4 because of the site's activity level.
...Of course, I'm not a professional or anything, but...
@Mithrandir Yes, various sites have more than 3, but only because more were appointed later on to add to the original 3.
Interesting. Have contacts in TL? :P
Wow, dropped to -4. o_O
2:11 PM
@Mithrandir Yeah, that was me.
@Mithrandir I'm sorry, but this looks like a really crappy MS Paint job.
It's just not a print-ready publishable ad
Exactly. It's an idea.
@DForck42 afternoon
I like the concept, but the implementation is just... not the best
2:12 PM
Afternoon :-)
@Mithrandir ?
Teachers Lounge
What about TL?
...Nothing. Never mind.
@Mithrandir I know, but why were you asking about it?
18 secs ago, by Mithrandir
...Nothing. Never mind.
@Randal'Thor Because it basically is, even if I didn't use MS Paint...
It's a concept for an ad; I'm not a professional artist by any standards.
2:18 PM
One of the universities that I applied to has a bachelor of humanities, which they advertise as their "great books" degree. Maybe I'll pull some ideas off of them
So if someone feels like drawing up a better version...
@Mithrandir BESW is our guy.
But he wants to wait until we've sorted out concept, message, etc.
> Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
@Randal'Thor Are you calling me a fool?! :P
Nope, just quoting :-)
...Is that a yes?
2:23 PM
@Randal'Thor whistles innocently
Right on cue:
Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2017

Grace NoteIt is a bit late into this new year, being that we're already in the second month, but we are now cycling the Community Promotion Ads for 2017! What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements that will show up on the main site, in the right sidebar....

You're late. I saw it way before now :P
Okay, question: How's my idea for the ad? I'm not asking about my drawing, I know I'm horrible, but the premise.
2:44 PM
which ad?
@Mithrandir hm, I like it
A: Let's design an ad for our site

Mithrandir Here's an idea. This is not meant to be a final ad; it's for throwing out an idea for a design.

ye it's ugly
@Mithrandir it's hard to make a good minimalistic ad like that really
2:56 PM
I'm puzzled by that meta.literature.stackexchange.com/a/388/139 has three upvotes. Does that mean that three people think it would be a good idea if HDE became a moderator? That seems absurd.
@b_jonas I upvoted because I think he would have been a good choice if he'd been willing to do it.
@Randal'Thor :I see.
@DForck42 I'm not really willing to hash that out in the comments, but I feel I should ask that. Seeing how your (definitely appreciated) presence (including as a moderator) on Movies & TV went with time, especially during the last year of public beta, how much are you willing to put years of regular participation into your user account and your moderator duties on Literature?
@Riker Thanks!
@Riker But no thanks.
@Riker Any ideas for improvement?
3:17 PM
@Mithrandir clip art
@Mithrandir new font pls
@DForck42 for the books?
and more minimalistic
@Mithrandir no don't you dare
he's trolling
@Riker ...Like?
3:22 PM
@NapoleonWilson I'm in a lot more stable position in my life now than I was when I was temp mod for either movies or the original lit beta. I really do enjoy the community around these sites and I want to see them grow, and I plan to stay around and help them grow for the foreseeable future
Thank you.
@Riker and yes, yes I was ;-)
in The Screening Room, 52 secs ago, by DForck42
@NapoleonWilson the tl;dr: I was in a BAD relationship and super depressed, broke up with her, was still depressed, got another gf, started college, was still depressed, finally broke up with her, started doing better, and found my fiancee
so that others can see
3:57 PM
much better
except I don't really like the blue font tho
> story of Rand al' Thor as
eye twitches
@Riker Was that sarcasm?
Q: What section of literary theory does "pure" analysis fall into?

AirdishA lot of literary criticism takes into account historical contexts, and the relation of the text to different philosophical outlooks, stuff like Marxism, etc. I'm interested in analysis which is done purely on the basis of what is in the text -- that is, stuff like literary devices, structure, c...

@Mithrandir partially
the shadows on the left books are weird and the rigth one looks like my copy of the pentateauch
and the font shudders
4:01 PM
@Riker ?
@Mithrandir much better. are those clip art?
@Randal'Thor the space
@Riker Urgh.
@DForck42 Yes. From pixabay
@Mithrandir :-D
4:02 PM
@Randal'Thor ye
The colors got changed on ^that one.
I've gtg for now. Give me more advice, with a ping, and I'll take it into consideration. :P
@Mithrandir Better. But the text is still pretty jarring.
And the logo is completely off-centre and blurry.
(Or are you going for golden ratio?)
@NapoleonWilson What's jarring?
@Mithrandir For one, it's totally pixely and noisy.
4:09 PM
the logo looks like one of those things some p.t.a. mom made, for the bake sale no one wants to go to
@Himarm It didn't blow up well. I'm going to manually redraw it.
sorry, the whole add*
And that logo is just... Did you actually use the little 16x16 one from the top bar? You can use the big >100 one from the tour page and scale it down in a proper image manipulation program.
I'm not using a proper image manip program :P
4:10 PM
The books are quite aliased, too.
(and off-centre, but maybe that's intentional.)
@NapoleonWilson That's intentional.
@Mithrandir The space at the right side looks a little empty, though.
I've got a font that will make you choke
Well, the logo is certainly better now. Even if still quite off-centre.
did a child write that type set
4:14 PM
Do you place that from eye-measurement?
It's the scratch.mit.edu font
@NapoleonWilson yes
I can't measure
@Mithrandir way better then previous versions
My editor doesn't have that.
@AnkitSharma *raises eyebrow*
Well, then count pixels or hold an actual ruler to the screen.
But doesn't good old MS Paint even have antialiased fonts since Win7?
I don't have windows
I have Ubuntu, but I'm not a programmer. Don't ask.
4:17 PM
@Mithrandir pls
i am choking
@Mithrandir I can move it for you in exchange for a decent font
@Mithrandir Why is there no text in that book?
@Loong It's clipart.
If you can find a bettor one, go ahead
@Riker I have a worse font
no pl
Well, that's at least better than the previous one. At least this is somewhat of a (semi-serious) fantasy novel than a bad pre-school children's book. ;-)
4:21 PM
*raises eyebrow*
@Randal'Thor lol
How's the font? Colors?
4:37 PM
I don't particularly like the navy - but I honestly would rather wait and use something along the lines of @BESW's idea.
@Mithrandir still bad
@HDE226868 which is?
I don't really like "Read any good books lately" as an impromptu elevator pitch.
@HDE226868 this is why BESW is a graphic designer
that's an epic explanation
I've just posted new CPAs for the 2017 cycle on SFF, ELU, WB, and M&TV - links are all here. Please consider upvoting them so they reach the required score of 6. (The image is still the default Area 51 one, but I'll edit them all as soon as we're in public beta and have the new image ready.)
@Randal'Thor do you want me to repost the rpg one?
I have an account there already, though no posts
4:46 PM
@Riker Sure, but don't forget to do the required messing about with the image source.
for what?
hm, I can't post it due to the imgur only rule
that means no auto-updating images idt
They require stack.imgur links in the first instance, so you have to upload this first and then shadow-edit to get the auto-updating image.
@Riker I'm way ahead of you ;-)
@Randal'Thor ah, nice
Now I'm out. Later, all.
Wrong one
^this is sort of what @Standback was talking about.
A: Let's design an ad for our site

StandbackA close up of a well-studied book. I'm imagining a tight close-up of a book, with all signs that somebody has been studying it and marking it up -- a highlighted passage; a note scribbled in the margin, a bookmark. (I'm not finding an attributed image I can copy here, but maybe an angled, close-...

5:32 PM
@Mithrandir Not good, heavily noisy.
^specifically for SFF
@Mithrandir : Thanks for looking up images. And glad you're enthused about the idea :)
@Standback I took those images :P
Oh NICE :)
How else would that Literature.se have gotten there?
5:38 PM
I do suspect this is the kind of thing that would need a proper photographer or designer to get just right. So that it's clear, not too cluttered, looks sharp.
I have NO IDEA if we have that kind of a resource.
@Mithrandir : I'd assumed photoshop.
*shrug* No idea.
Nope. I used a pencil.
...And my phone to take the picture.
But Hamlet's an awesome choice. I was impressed you'd "found" that; most of the "highlight" images I found were of the Bible :P
I added the highlight myself too o_O
OK, that's dedication :)
I rotated, cropped, and resized. I'll see about a better image later. Supper time ;)
5:56 PM
@Mithrandir I recommend changing the literature.se handwritten part with the logo.
@Axelrod Whaddya mean?
The site logo.
The little bubble with the L, and maybe the Literature Beta sign from the top of the site.
@Axelrod it's hand drawn. Irl.
@Mithrandir I am aware.
And you have access to image manipulation software.
@Axelrod like that?
6:12 PM
@Mithrandir Shop it in.
You're going to damage your book.
time to burninate behind-the-scenes? it's been 5 days and there's a pretty clear consensus (+13)
@Axelrod bit late methinks
7:04 PM
Q: What purpose for the plot does the sex scene in It have?

The VeeNear the end of It, This feels quite unexpected, rather unrealistic, and does not really fit into the big picture in any fully justifiable way I would comprehend. Wildly various guesses can be found online as to why this would be logical or inevitable. Has the author publicly discussed the mot...

Q: Was Atticus's name meant to mean anything?

Matrim CauthonI am currently studying latin, and somewhere I read about a man name Titus Pompons Atticus, and as a lover of literature, I do not like to assume that it is just a coincidence. Was there anything special or meaningful to Atticus's (first) name *note: Please do not limit your answer to only th...

7:32 PM
That was created by @CreationEdge.
7:48 PM
Thats pretty great
8:43 PM
@Mithrandir while I like it, I think it'd be better to prioterize the non-scifi and fantasy genres
cause we have a site dedicated solely to those two
@DForck42 So, maybe just reorganize it.
I don't have the skill to do that.
@Riker Need a hand?
ther'es only 1
feel free
I'm writing a meta post for another site rn
8:53 PM
@Riker Well, I'm done.
@Riker Should I change the usage guidance? Or leave it as is?
just leave it
@Riker what was your other Rr question?
but I decided it was stupid so
9:01 PM
9:44 PM
you're good at killing chats @Mithrandir
Yep, special talent of mine.
What is a "high-continuity book collection"?
@Benjamin what's the context?
@doppelgreener The website of The Bradford Exchange?
10:03 PM
@Benjamin i'm having trouble finding an article that defines it explicitly in terms of collecting, but from the context it would seem to be collections that have a high quantity of the collectible items with minimal interruption.
@doppelgreener Okay, from the image I thought it meant like Library of America type stuff.
I forget...is asking a question about the personal life/inspiration of an author on topic?
@steelersquirrel Yes.
Thanks :)
@steelersquirrel so long as it's relevant to their literary works in some way, i imagine, e.g. Jhonen Vasquez's gym routine is not really our forte.
10:07 PM
@doppelgreener Hehehehe! Understood :)
Tag wikis to review...
10:43 PM
10:57 PM
my brain's broken, can someone clean this up a bit?
Q: Why did Wang Lung care for his "poor fool"?

Lianne CaranthirIn The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck, the farmer Wang Lung and his family go through a time of famine. In that time, girls were not very valued, and he could have sold his as a slave or even just abandoned her because of the financial burden. In fact, people urged him to. He also didn't really s...

I mentioned The Good Earth in chat and now questions arise!
11:56 PM
@Randal'Thor I forgot...are you a Shakespeare fan?

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