TRPG General Chat - 2016-12-24

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12:07 AM

Lots of racial modifiers to the stats. There is a significant detail in the races' reproduction. Kitsune are footloose non-materialists, and special mention is made of a typical kitsune's sexual history. Minotaurs are klingons. Werewolves are just wolf-people, tribal, run in packs, competitive. The first things in the entry for humans is who they like to sleep with, dropping an f-bomb.

Keep it classy, Internet.

in more comedic news: i.imgur.com/I6bLm8U.jpg

Humans are inferior in all ways except magic, and being able to breed human-ness into any species. Aaand we've got the unfortunate half-orc tropes going with half-minotaurs. Okay, the One Thing isn't in this section. And we're halfway through. Let's take a look at Magic.

@SevenSidedDie You seem to be far more patient than I am today

@JoelHarmon Ironically, I've had a very trying day. Maybe this is meditative enough. :)

Sorry to hear that

12:13 AM

I think he's in the same mindspace that leads me to roll deadEarth characters.

Okay, the Magic section is pretty interesting. Short on details, because a lot of is it “your GM will tell you what…” kind of stuff, but the basic concept is neat. Its biggest downfall is that spells are patterned on d20 spells and look just as detailed, yet each has to be custom made by the GM for your PC.

But on the plus side, it's: 1) a custom spell list based on your personal specialty, which is any one word you pick, general or specific, 2) seems to be limitless casting, 3) levels 0 and 1 are reliable, 2 to 10 take a spell-fail roll, 4) but spell failure is just alterations to the spell details, neutral, good, or bad, (GM will tell you what), and is part of how to experiment and discover new magic.

I think this is the One Thing. It's still anchored to d20 too much, but it has a lot of promise. If only the details weren't locked away behind the will-never-fund GM's Guide.

the closest thing I've seen to well balanced custom powers is a Mutants and Masterminds style point buy system. I can't imagine most DMs I know doing the background work to balance something like that.

Ok, time to head out; later, all.

Dear KS: $0 is not a stretch goal

@JoelHarmon I get the impression that balance is not part of the idiom of this game. It's you're a special talent, go have awesome adventures.

@JoelHarmon Check out Venture City some time.

12:21 AM

It's unfortunately heavily freighted by its d20 heritage. Kitsune are footloose story-seekers who don't care about material things, but still have to track pounds of encumbrance.

@doppelgreener Given what we've seen of the pitch and the game, I'd be willing to make an exception for this one.

@SevenSidedDie [snort]

Hm. Character creation is a mix of “there are no limits, say who you are in the world and you are it, and this is the most important part of your character”, much like Fate, but you also have to roll 3d6 for six stats, 4d6 if your GM is nice, and if you're lucky you can choose which stats to put the rolls in.

And again, the GM hands you Skills and Professions based on what you detail in your character backstory, you don't determine this.

> Ascetic Strength. You can lift and carry any weight without difficulty. If you carry any frivolous or indulgent item for more than one scene, the burden of material possessions forces you to fill your lowest available consequence slot.

I was expecting more to that chapter. Skills and Professions are assigned by the GM, and when using them in-game, resolved by GM fiat. One possible neat thing: skill rolls are still made, but only to determine how long something takes to succeed.

@BESW yes fair. It was probably a significant effort for them to write their intro thing. They're also promising way in over their own head and will probably dig themselves emotionally worse so I agree with hoping it fails. After they fail they can look at what went wrong and try a bit less next time.

12:30 AM

Combat is d20 style rolls to hit. No initiative or rounds though: instead a round (“phase”) is a simultaneous set of goals in combat, of however long it needs to be at that moment (a few seconds, five minutes, hours, whatever) to contain that atomic attempt of things. Then it's divided into a rigid Planning-Reaction-Resolve structure. Notably, you can't try to perceive inobvious situational aspects when planning, and only can plan to inspect things and get info returend in the Resolve step.

Basically, “tell me what you want to do; let's describe it happening; now we roll for it all”.

Followed by a list of crunch maneuvers with specific mechanics, like charging, called shots, attacks of opportunity (hello d20!), cleave. Personal and professional Fighting Styles are also a thing, but whatever they do is GM fiat “don't worry about it, the GM will tell you what happens”.

(also I am very happy they made the discoveries they did and hope their treatments go well — and I hope they don't rely on this KS)

On to Equipment. Back to that footloose Kitsune, we are told that tracking water and food supplies is super important, unlike in those other games where it's so often handwaved, and we're given exact pound measures of food and water units to track, and consumption rates.

@doppelgreener I rather hope that their personal journey gradually pulls their attention away from the Kickstarter, naturally eclipsing it in importance and making its success or failure strangely immaterial-seeming.

@SevenSidedDie yes me too. That stuff is bigger than this.

Track all your torches, pots and pans, feet of rope, etc. The stuff that d20 emphasises too, only because d20 didn't realise that it was just copying early D&D stuff without realising whether it was important to its actual idiom.

...perhaps I should try reading just the magic section of the Ars Magica handbook, skipping all the absolutely-asinine fluff they use?

12:41 AM

BTW, @SevenSidedDie, on the subject of languages with dubious terms for describing groups of people, the excellent "Imperial Radch" trilogy has an expansionist empire which uses the group of words for itself and its citizens, AND for "civilisation" and "civilised people."

@BESW it sounds like they've never had an encounter with anyone at their level or higher on the Kardashev scale

@BESW When we played a supers Fate game, the extra "bits" of Venture City went mostly unused. Maybe because it was our first foray into Fate.

@BESW I just finished reading it! An excellent trilogy.

@Shalvenay Oh, they absolutely have--about a thousand years ago, and it's a major plot point.

@Shalvenay That is actually a critical plot point. (scooped)

12:43 AM

The series is about exploring exactly those kinds of themes: who is a person, who is Significant, what is proper/just/beneficial and who decides...

@BESW ...talk about folks who can't learn. :P

@Shalvenay It's a "character note" for their culture.

(Paraphrasing the RPG again) “Weapons! Let me tell you about weapons. Weapons come in many varieties, and they will naturally do more damage if they're bigger. Ask your GM for details about whatever weapon you want to use.”

@Shalvenay Arguably, the entire trilogy is about a collective consciousness experiencing the denial and anger phases of grief.

One of the best works of speculative fiction I've ever seen for dealing with prejudice, colonisation, class/race/gender striation, personhood...

@BESW It really is stunning.

@Shalvenay It's just taking centuries.

12:46 AM

@SevenSidedDie I was going to say "Spoilers!" but then I realised you weren't talking about spoiler.

Armour is tracked per-location, but each piece only adds to your total damage reduction number instead of fitting into a location-based hit system. Armour reduces your AC because it makes it harder to dodge, but reduces the damage you take.

@BESW It kinda works either way, doesn't it? But any more detail than that is totally spoilers.

@SevenSidedDie This "player's guide" is sounding more and more like a "player's reminder their agency is restricted to the GM's beneficent indulgence."

Long fights might make you pass out because your armour is too heavy. (Ask your GM.)

@BESW If the GM is really good and knows the system inside and out, including all its hidden assumptions that aren't written anywhere (I am less and less optimistic this is all elegantly systematised in the GM Guide), then it's probably fantastic fun. If it's put into any other GM's hands, probably roulette.

@SevenSidedDie Even then, I'd argue that there's a big problem in telling players to make choices that have mechanical implications they're not allowed to familiarise themselves with, unless that's a primary theme of the game.

There are very detailed mechanics for shields.

12:52 AM

yeah, it sounds like a nightmare to learn and run

@BESW It seems like. Despite the mechanical bobs and bits it inherits from d20, it seems they're just leftovers for lack of knowing anything else. The real engine seems to be focused on telling unique-snowflake (in the good sense) characters' stories, facilitated by a GM who is totally here for the awesome magical tea party.

@Shalvenay I'm pretty sure I could run this, and make it fun. I don't know that there'd be much point, because almost everything here is either unnecessary for its declared idiom, or is done better by something else.

...this is probably the first time I've ever really felt like MonsterHearts was the best game I could possibly recommend to someone.

also, took a glance at Ars Magica's spell stuff -- and the compositionalist philosophy it takes to building spells is rather neat, at first glance, but what they've done relies so heavily on a certain worldview that it's not something that I'd like to port to well, just about any other setting or system

@Shalvenay yeah, Ars is definitely a system-for-setting game.

@SevenSidedDie That's... just about the most painfully-honest review I've read this year. All true, from the secondhand impression, but painful nonetheless.

12:54 AM

(Now we have a discussion about precise travel times per day and divisions thereof, units of food hunter-types will be able to provide per two hours of labour, varying by season, and the typical time between water sources.)

(Makes me feel bad for the designer.)

@SevenSidedDie Ooh, do we have biome multipliers? Please tell me there are biome multipliers.

@nitsua60 I think they would benefit from a mentor looking at this and saying, “this part, right here: this is your awesome contribution to the field. Leave the rest. Focus on this, make new things around this core.”

I think that bit is their magic system. But I can't tell, because the details are hidden behind the GM Guide wall. The basic concept is inspiring though.

@BESW Nothing so tabular. The contrast between everything being in prose and handwaved, with unusually specific details dropped in the middle of paragraphs, is a particular charm. Just a note about how instead of 3 units of food for two hours during a travel break, winter will likely deliver just one unit per three days of travel.

@BESW OMG, they should so play Monsterhearts. :O

@BESW mind describing Monsterhearts a bit?

Your PC may gain or lose attributes depending on how you play them (ask your GM). No alignment, but we couldn't leave behind the worst part about alignment.

1:00 AM

@Shalvenay @SevenSidedDie would probably do a better job.

It's a highschool coming-of-age game for teenage monsters, powered by the Apocalypse, and that's all the blurb I can give.

@BESW I'm all ears for SSD's explanation then :)

@SevenSidedDie ...what kind of seasons do they have?

@Shalvenay You're teenage monsters going through teenage monsterhood, which is a double metaphor for each other thing. You are awful to each other as only teenagers can be, using your monster abilities but also Mean Girls manipulative backstabbing. You might find love and redemption and the meaning of life, just like messy teenagerhood can lead to. It will be messy and dramatic and fun. And maybe informative.

....interesting. I assume a Monster High (School, that is) is included?

xD

@Shalvenay A school setting is a pretty typical default, but like with most Powered by the Apocalypse games, setting emerges from the particular monsters you choose and the questions and answers that emerge during character creation.

1:04 AM

@SevenSidedDie xD

that may just be the next PbtA I want to try

Back to Gifts and Curses: you might die in your sleep without a roll. Just letting y'all know, players. That's what the player's guide ends on, before the appendices with the glossary and thanks and credits.

It's a bit too mean-spirited, and a bit too interested in sex, for my taste.

@SevenSidedDie [sniff] It's beautiful.

@BESW yeah, sounds like it'd be a poor match for my own, rather geeky HS experience

But for "finding yourself as a special snowflake in a narrative-first game," MonsterHearts is seminal. No pun intended.

So, as far as I can tell the One Amazing Thing that Gifts and Curses contributes, as a Fantasy Heartbreaker, is a very cool concept for a magic system. If the game was rebuilt around that kernel of greatness, it could be very nice.

1:08 AM

How would you describe the magic system concept?

I dunno -- I personally actually am thinking about how the Ars Magica type of compositionalist system could be built in a way that isn't quite so brittle re: setting assumptions

@BESW That's pretty much it. Struggle with your (or someone else's) teenage baggage through monster metaphors, and have an unpredictable character drama in the process.

@Shalvenay Isn't that what Mage is? Or am I mixing up the directionality of that design relationship?

@SevenSidedDie although I'm probably the only person in this chat room whose teenage baggage included "that teacher who mishandled me badly because they thought coaching some sports team was more important than the fall pre-IEP meeting for a student in their class"

it's like "hellloooooo....academics takes priority over extracurriculars for students, shouldn't it be the same way for teachers?"

@Shalvenay That would be perfect fodder for a conflicted situation in Monsterhearts. Especially if “I will go bite their neck during office hours” is the teenage-vampire solution struck upon.

@SevenSidedDie and no clue, man. I may have to go back and poke at Mage's magic system as well now that I've finally somewhat sorted out how to make the "truth is what you perceive it to be" thing I think

because compositionalist magic is something I've wanted more of in games for a very long time

1:15 AM

@Shalvenay I hear you. I've been on a quest for a nice compositional magic system for a long time. I'll let you know if I ever find my Goldilocks one. ;)

On that note though, I have to go poke other things than heartbreaking PDFs and magic systems.

ttfn!

...you know what's sad? The 1980s TMNT RPG handled alignment better than D&D does. It doesn't even NEED alignment!

2:10 AM

@BESW How does it handle that?

@Powerdork It's not great, but it divides people into Good (principled or scrupulous), Selfish (unprincipled or anarchist), and Evil (miscreant, aberrant, or diabolic). So far as I can tell this is largely a roleplay quality, and only comes into mechanics if a psionic character wants to know someone's personal inclinations.

There's reasonably detailed and not-contradictory explanations for each category.

And within each there's explicit room for personal variation and deviation.

Considering how much the TMNT universe doesn't need alignment, the system fits it surprisingly well.

@BESW hey, um. Have you had a chance to look at icons for me?

@Magician Yeah, I have a few questions about which style you're using from that website, and which icons you definitely can't find there.

Ah, I've made a file listing all these things! And sent you a link via... hangouts? A while ago.

Oh, wow, Hangouts. [goes to find login]

2:24 AM

I think it's already shared with you on google docs, so not sure i can double-share it. You can search there for "Passages & Plunder icons"

Aight.

...Okay, I can take cues from those.

Sweet

2:41 AM

Alright, I know this room can help me...
My daughter puller her (straignt, almost waist-length, brown) hair back into a ponytail, straight back. But she missed little wisps on either side, so they're hanging down on either side of her face.
I know that's got to be the look of some famous character, but I don't know animated characters at all. Any thoughts?

That...describes a lot of anime characters.

Any idea what she watches?

@nitsua60

Those too-short-to-catch edge hairs are called "baby hairs," if that helps in searching.

3:10 AM

@Miniman Oh, she doesn't watch anything--I just thought it might be easy to pull up a picture to show her, for her amusement.

(Anyway, she's off to bed, now. No urgency.

New feat-marathon (general) prequisite-run effect-you can run for up to 24 hours straight then you must rest for a like amount of time (i.e. Light walk at most movement-wise) what do you think?

I'm not sure how useful "do the same thing all day" is in a system mostly dedicated to counting time in seconds and minutes and doing many different things sequentially within those times.

It's cinematic and cool, but not something I can see wanting to take because I'll actually use it.

I had a run-specialised character in D&D 3.5, and even for him I'm not sure that feat would've been attractive enough to use one of my precious feat slots for--it effectively says I wouldn't be doing much with any of my other abilities that day, or the next.

So, what's your goal for this feat? What gameplay do you want it to enable?

3:26 AM

@BESW you can think of it as the motion equivalent of a item making feat if it helps & it enhances the amount of movement for every other day. Other than that it's mostly window dressing to be honest.

@nitsua60 Oh, right.

@AbrahamRay Ok, so the question is - why would anyone take this feat?

Feats are ludicrously important.

Window dressing is not something people are going to spend a feat on.

In addition to that, it seems of very limited use unless everyone in the party has one.

@Miniman if you want you could think of it as a mini-feat that you could combine with another feat to enhance it in a way of the dms choice.

Also a messenger might take it,you never know.

@AbrahamRay So, you mean something like adding it to the (equally useless) Run feat in order to try to make 2 useless feats into something someone would actually consider taking?

@AbrahamRay So it's designed for NPCs?

3:30 AM

@Miniman yup that's the idea. @BESW it would be used by Mocs mostly.

Mocs?

I don't know what a Moc is.

I meant npcs

My autocorrect got me

Do you routinely track the number of days NPCs spend on travel?

Is this intended to justify running down PCs who are trying to outrun the plot?

3:35 AM

That's @Magician I didn't put down the travel time. @BESW it's intended to increase travel time for messengers mostly.

So far as I can tell, "run" is not a movement mechanic in 5e.

It is a feat in 3.5 edition dnd though. Someone could build a "run" feat for 5e dnd @BESW I'm just not sure how myself though.

@AbrahamRay How isn't the first question, though. The first question is, pretty much always, why?

So this is not a feat you want input on, but rather your way of asking us for help updating the D&D 3.5 feat "Run" for 5e?

@BESW you've struck the problem on the head!

3:42 AM

Then please just say that.

My feat was my attempt to do just that.

You know, "I want NPC messengers in my game to be faster" [goal]; "I think the 3.5 Run feat would be a good way to do that" [attempted solution]; "can you help me figure out how to update that feat for 5e?" [request].

Marathon was my attempt to allow them to run longer mostly.

Sharing a feat and asking for "thoughts" doesn't convey what problem it's trying to solve, how you arrived at it, or what you want help with.

It just leads to more frustration as we have to play 20 Questions to figure out what you're actually after.

Now that we know your goal, I can ask why the Mobile feat doesn't do what you want.

@Miniman Oh, c'mon... there's Linguist =)

3:49 AM

Sorry, my mind doesn't work that way most of the time. My Asperger's syndrome gets in the way most of the time. As for why the mobile feat doesn't do what I want because it doesn't increase the travel time between rest stops.

Besides, languages are really useful.

@AbrahamRay That's why we're explaining this stuff to you. One of the purposes of the Stack is to help people improve their ability to communicate clearly.

You don't want messengers to be faster, just to have more endurance?

@nitsua60 And it's a half feat as well...nope, Linguist passes my bar.

:34322117 Actually, yes, once. In a duet, so it was (a) actually useful, (b) not comparatively-disadvantaging vis-a-vis the rest of the party, (c) that player wanted to play a 40-40-20 exploration-social-combat mix. So it was a decent choice there.

Epic handbook has the polymath feat that allows you to speak, read and write all languages @ the cost of speaking 5 languages to start with.

@BESW your correct again.

3:55 AM

@AbrahamRay Are you familiar with the rules for travelling more than 8 hours in a day?

> Messenger. You learn three languages of your choice. Your speed increases by 10 feet. You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to continue a forced march.

@Miniman yes I'm fairly familiar with those rules, this feat is to bypass those rules.

Or, you know, for a more realistic version of messengers, grant your mount extra speed and advantage on forced march saves.

Thanks @BESW

Long-distance messengers are more likely to be switching out exhausted mounts every day or so than shanking it on foot.

3:59 AM

Except maybe dark sun based elves of course.

4:31 AM

@Miniman So let me guess which don't pass your bar: Charger, Defensive Duelist, Dungeon Delver, Elemental Adept, Grappler, Inspiring Leader, Martial Adept, Skilled?

Defensive Duelist is OK, and Elemental Adept is sort of a necessary evil for sorcerers given the lack of variety on spell damage types, but you're right about the rest.

Except maybe Grappler. Grappler is...one of those feats that you can either build a character around or ignore totally.

Savage Attacker is fairly awful, and Mobile isn't much better.

A lot of the half feats would be absolutely worthless if they weren't half feats, but that's a whole issue in itself.

4:56 AM

Defensive Duelist: it struck me that a character who's getting hit in melee and wielding a finesse weapon... probably has a lot of competing uses for their reaction. (Actually, when I first read it I conflated the ideas of reaction and bonus action, so had in mind a rogue having to forego cunning action for this. But that's wrong. So maybe not as bad as I first read.)

One of my players uses it, and it's allowed her to survive a lot of stuff she should've died to.

What's her build?

@BESW pony express

@nitsua60 Dex-based, dueling paladin.

@Miniman xD interesting

5:04 AM

@Miniman Interesting.

@Shalvenay Jinx.

With a shield, obviously.

@Miniman what oath?

(You can't talk)

Oath of the Ancients for good magic resistant times.

Until I say "Shalvey" two more times =)

Shalvey

Shalvey=)

5:05 AM

@Miniman xD

@Miniman come to think of it, Oath of the Ancients on a Palalock has some pretty decent mageslaying potential

between magic resistance, the ability to not get outranged, and a few other tricks...

I can't remember, does 'lock get Counterspell?

@Miniman lo and behold, they do

Nice.

Although I'd still be tempted to look at a Bardadin (Palabard?) for JoAT to Dispel and Counterspell.

Hmmm. Paladin/Abjurer viable? Probably not.

No, definitely not. Bonus to saving throws is Cha, bonus to counterspell etc is Int.

5:22 AM

Balardin.

Aladdin?

(Weak, I know.)

5:57 AM

@BESW I should have known both that Fate had something like this, and that you'd recommend it.

6:21 AM

There's a number of similar modular systems out there, but Venture City's the one I know off the top of my head.

6:44 AM

@Miniman Perhaps you wouldn't take a feat for "window dressing", but I know several role players who would.

@BESW I think you may be looking for the Dash action (which you can do in addition to normal movement in a round to effectively double your movement speed)

@JoelHarmon Nope, it's a totally different thing from 3.5's Run.

Different action mechanics, different speed, different endurance checks.

@BESW Perhaps I misunderstood; I thought you were looking for any kind of Run mechanic in 5e. Dash is the nearest thing I know of that's universally available.

No, Ray was specifically looking at 3.5's Run mechanic and associated feat, and then just acting as if they existed in 5e too.

Well, I seem to have missed context on your line "So far as I can tell, "run" is not a movement mechanic in 5e.". I assumed you were looking for how to move faster in 5e, and couldn't find it.

Apparently I can't be right all the time :(

Heh.

I think what would best match Ray's vision within existing 5e mechanics is a feat which allows travel up to the Fast rate for more than 8 hours, up to 24, without making the Constitution checks normally required by a forced march, but they suffer exhaustion level 2 afterward.

But that's not really a messenger ability, narratively speaking.

The idea that a messenger has some "go full force for a day and then keel over" ability doesn't seem very reasonable/accurate/fun to me.

The Chasquis (also Chaskis) were agile and highly trained and physically fit messengers that were in charge of carrying the quipus, messages and gifts throughout the Inca empire. A message could travel up to 240 km per day through the chasquis relay system. Chasquis were not just messengers (those were young boys who were just used to pass along basic information), the chasquis were trained to be able to read and translate the khipus to each other and higher authorities. Not only were they used to transport oral messages but they also helped the inspector general, the Sapa Inka's brother, keep...

If you're looking for a stable pre-industrial communication system based on foot messengers, there's your gold standard.

3 hours later…

10:17 AM

UPDATE: Carrie Fisher's brother says actress is in stable condition after suffering medical emergency aboard plane. http://apne.ws/2ip7D0D

Tweeted by AP on December 24, 2016 at 12:01 AM

11:03 AM

[dons hat]

Hmm, takes a moment to take effect.

Shame about Carrie Fisher.

11:37 AM

did she not make it?

or is it just still looking pretty bad?

That it happened at all is worrying.

ah

well that does go without saying

it's not the most uplifting thing to happen

Ugh, jpeg artifacts.

That's what I get for commissioning a piece with wood texture background meant to print.

I would not know

...why not save it as a lossless file?

Go all oldschool with a bitmap.

11:52 AM

I will attempt to do this in future.

For now, there are hats.

[amused]

Tonight's Bad Dad is Lord Apophis.

@Powerdork nice

@BESW about time XD

3

Q: Playing InSpectres with very small groups

How small of a group can effectively play InSpectres and still get into the mode of the game, especially if the participants aren't familiar with the system yet? I'm particularly concerned about how confessionals work if there's only two players, but I also suspect that franchise dice as a progr...

new-players group-dynamics inspectres

1:02 PM

Correction to earlier: Carrie Fisher is still in an uncertain condition in intensive care. She isn't stable and released, her brother misunderstood.

@trogdor we're also quite worried because 2016 was also the year many other people passed away. We just got star wars back and it would be nice for Carrie Fisher to stay around and continue to be there.

4 hours later…

5:18 PM

New spell-phantom kisser, level-wizard 6, cleric 6, bard 5 effect-you conjure up the UGLIEST creature you can imagine of the opposite sex of the target & it'll proceed to simultaneously kiss and charm the target for 24 hours then disappear leaving the target in (for lack of a better term) "blue funk" for the same amount of time. Components are v,s & m. The material components are makeup perfume and coal. Now my question is how do I update this spell to 3.5 dnd?

This spell was originally in dragonsfoot.org under "unique spells" if it helps & was supposed to be for 2nd edition.

How would you update my spell into 5th edition for that matter?

@AbrahamRay Well, there are no spells in 5e that are different level based on class, so pick a single level for the spell.

I'm thinking of arcane & level 6 for starters @nitsua60

5:35 PM

@AbrahamRay Also, not clear on what the aftereffect--the 'blue funk'--is. I think that'd have a lot to do with it..

Mind you,that's for 5th edition only. "Blue funk" is a type of depression mostly.

@AbrahamRay Right. Are you thinking disadvantage on charisma checks? 1 level exhaustion? How do you imagine a character targeted by this spell being ~~effected~~ ~~affected~~ impacted?

@nitsua60 I was thinking of disadvantage on charisma checks & 1 level exhaustion at the same time!

The character would certainly be slowed down considerably!

Seriously though , how would you update the spell to version 3.5 dnd as that's the brunt of the question.

Okay. That seems a little underpowered for a level 6 spell. It's competing with create undead, planar ally, chain lightning, contingency, mass suggestion, ....

Thusly my question of how to update it.

5:47 PM

@AbrahamRay "Updating" is simply a matter of declaring its level, components, casting time, range, and effects in 5e terms. Sounds like you're basically there.

@nitsua60 action, affected

@nitsua60 that's all fine and good, I'm not sure how to do that for either 5th or 3.5 edition dnd!

Phantom Kisser 1 action; touch (?); Components VSM (perfume and coal); target is charmed, gains a level of exhaustion, and has disadvantage on charisma checks for 24 hours.

There you go. It's updated.

Okay, I see what your going for. Range is sight otherwise your on the right track!

@nitsua60 thanks!

@doppelgreener A week ago I thought I knew. Now I have rediscovered my ignorance =)

2 hours later…

7:30 PM

VtC system needed

that was fast =)

1 hour later…

8:37 PM

@nitsua60 Gives a level of exhaustion with no saving throw? That's definitely not underpowered. But it's overpowered in a very strange way, because you need to hit a target with it a bunch of times for it to do anything.

All the same, this might be the most reliable killing method I've seen for 5e.

Well, except for all the creatures immune to exhaustion, of course.

8:52 PM

Don't forget @Miniman that it also charms without a savings throw either.

Charmed by who? The caster? The (illusory?) creature

Also @Miniman the exhaustion takes place 24 hours after the charm to boot!

Charmed by who? The caster? The (illusory?) creature?

The creature does the charming.

So, worthless, then

As for the exhaustion taking place 24 hours later, you didn't mention that, and it basically makes the spell useless :(

8:56 PM

Not nessararrly as the spell puts the target out of action for 24 hours at a time per casting.

...wait, what?

How does it do that?

The charm is ONLY used to keep the target kissing the creature for the first 24 hours, the 2nd 24 hours is for the "blue funk" depression I mentioned.

So, during this first 24 hours, the target is...what?

The enemy you hit with the spell of course.

It's better described on dragonsfoot.org really.

No, I mean how exactly is the target affected by the spell during this time.

9:02 PM

It stands in place kissing the UGLY creature for 24 hours & unless the target is immune to charm spells period then it can't stop the kiss.

@AbrahamRay Unfortunately you didn't ever post a link.

I just did!

dragonsfoot.org

@doppelgreener well, it would also just be nice if she didn't die,.... regardless of how much she might or might not still want to be part of Star Wars

but if she does still want to be in on that, that would be nice too

Www.dragonsfoot.org

@trogdor you should be able to pick up a few easy hats today--I think doing anything on mainsite will get you the Hanukkah and Christmas ones.

9:05 PM

@nitsua60 I got those from yesterday

I voted a bit before going to bed, and I got those two hats out of it

@trogdor ahh... gotcha

I got a couple of hats recently! The mystery hat and the first one as well, I think it's the champion hat

I didn't even know I got the Hanukkah one till just 5 minutes ago

@AbrahamRay the mystery hat? do you just mean one of the handful or so of secret hats?

Yes, I do

ah, cool

those are always nice

9:08 PM

@trogdor thanks!

I am wearing one of them, first one I ever got (unless my memory is bad)

Which one are you wearing @trogdor?

@AbrahamRay In that case, we're back to overpowered, only now it's so ludicrously overpowered that I wouldn't allow it even as a 9th-level spell.

@AbrahamRay Where in the World

it's the half moon with an opening for one eye

Maybe the charm could have a savings throw?

9:10 PM

@AbrahamRay A link to the spell, I mean.

I'm wearing the mystery hat myself @trogdor

I'm not sure how to provide a link to the spell @Miniman sorry.

@AbrahamRay pretty neat, yeah :)

Yes, pretty neat indeed!

@AbrahamRay Even with a saving throw, you're looking at an 8th level spell, I think.

@Miniman your probably correct.

9:15 PM

@AbrahamRay Go to your address bar, hit ctrl-c, go to this chat, hit ctrl-v?

I'm on my smartphone right now.

9:43 PM

Which smartphone and/or browser?

Verizon

no, smartphone and browser, not carrier >.>

Unless there are significant mitigating circumstances, we shouldn't be homebrewing an update here to an old homebrewed AD&D spell that was basically a "sexual assault is funny" joke spell. Can we drop this?

10:11 PM

Yes, please.

10:23 PM

@SevenSidedDie glad that's not just me then

It WAS the NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, and ALL through the SHIP not a DALEK was STIRRING because IT IS NOT AN EGG WHISK!!!!! #DalekCarols

Tweeted by DalekRusty on December 24, 2016 at 9:59 PM

Happy Christmas.

I didn't even realize anyone was talking about anything involving such things,... but I concur with the sentiment regardless

On an unrelated note, mother nature gave me the best Christmas present of all: an inch of rain!
My backyard ice rink's tripled in size and will be nice and super-smooth. Once it re-freezes, that is =)

@nitsua60 -- on an also-unrelated note -- I think we need better lizardpeople for our fantasy worlds :P

10:39 PM

what do you mean?

all lizardpeople are superior

they shall rise from the underground and subjugate all races and force them to wear literal scale armor to fit in

XD

@trogdor as in "not stuffed into an ebil pidgeonhole" :p

Dragonborn, shulassakar, Cay-men, neo-troodons, achaz, dragonewts...

10:58 PM

@BESW hrm...I typically think of dragonkin as separate altogether

the shulassakar are ...oddballs taxonomically...not sure about the cay-men, neo-troodons, or achaz tho

Oh, and the saurial.

11:14 PM

ACCIDENTALLY BOUGHT CHRISTMAS WRAITH. EVERYONE DEAD.

Tweeted by bengoldacre on December 24, 2016 at 9:08 PM in reply to bengoldacre

5

11:25 PM

@doppelgreener I got a "Necromancer" out of that Arneson-based answer you helped me with--if only there were a way to crack the badge in half and ping it to you!

In other words, thanks again. At least chatizens will know that badge's half yours =)

11:45 PM

@Shalvenay they are all evil in your setting? that is a problem

XD

@nitsua60 lol, I am surprised he didn't get a badge for that too if he helped

the christmassing has occured, and I got a super rad Godzilla shirt XD

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