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9:00 PM
I was going to say good joke, but he also doesn't let quality of humor get in the way of a joke either :P
Heh, true. I just haven't seen one so blatantly in that direction before.
Like today's votey:
It's very appropriate for today's comic, as well as most comics
The fact that most of the voteys are his wife and/or kids booing his jokes says something :P
9:01 PM
ugh, I was trying to expand the polyglot by editing the top row
The thing that appears when you click the red button
and everything started going wrong
like, fixing one language would break another
I've never heard that term before
I think we could do with an offline TIO to make it faster to test (either that, or a TIO version that let you run the program in multiple languages at once)
9:03 PM
I think Zach made it up because he couldn't decide what to call it
@ais523 For the first, you can always clone the repo
For the second, there's this
oO I just realized that I had you ignored Mego. Sorry if you were talking to me and I didn't respond
it was purely accidental
@NathanMerrill :(
9:04 PM
I know we disagree on a lot of things but ignoring me is harsh! :P
@Mego This is Love:<3>marriage</3>
A crush: <3/>
Life: <!doctype meaningless>...
Longest single day conference ever. It's 10 PM and I just got home.
@mınxomaτ Gonna sleep? Or did you drink too much coffee?
@ais523 I realise it was probably unfair of me to change everything and not document exactly what depends on what (only leaving hints for what I felt was most important), so feel free to ask if there's anything I can help with, since I'd like to see this get to the point where it beats Versatile Integer Printer :)
My legs hurt too much to sleep. I'm going to watch a movie and eventually fall asleep I guess.
9:08 PM
(also, a Bash script to run a bunch of languages in a row is really helpful, except some annoying ones like all the JS-only interpreters)
@Sp3000 I'd like to see that too
I don't mind that you changed things around (the only real problem it gives is that it doesn't save the golfing opportunities for when they're needed to fit a language in)
@Poke They should expand it to not just prevent ticket scalping, but scalping of any kind
@TimmyD that is a clever solution :)
9:11 PM
Q: Shuffle a ragged array

Nathan MerrillA ragged array is an array where each element is an array of unknown number of integers. For example, the following are ragged arrays: [[1,2,3],[4],[9,10]] Shape: 3,1,2 [[1],[2],[3]] Shape: 1,1,1 [[1,2,3,4,5,6,8]] Shape: 7 The following a...

in theory we should be able to do better by being allowed to copy each others' solutions
2.a.1.B.ii also: knew or should have known that the event ticket was acquired in violation of subparagraph (A).
there are a ton of entry-point-anywhere languages we haven't used yet, but I'd rather save them until later
@ais523 The only reason I did that was because I didn't want the polyglot to bloat exponentially in size too far due to poor golfing (but that is sort of why I'm aiming to use only "real" languages until I'm forced to do otherwise)
fair enough, it's a reasonable approach
9:12 PM
@mınxomaτ Long talk...
oops, want to edit but don't want to send another ping
@NewMainPosts hmm. I wonder if would be a good tag
No, my talk was just a few minutes plus 30min panel disc.
@Geobits yeah that's an interesting one
how do you pass an array in Jelly?
@ais523 I should probably mention if you need full stops you can probably fit them in between the [] now, not sure if that helps
9:16 PM
@NathanMerrill Swim faster than the array?
(sorry, I'll leave now)
Do you swim in jelly?
I mean, it's not a liquid.
If Scrooge McDuck can swim in gold coins, I can swim in jelly.
is mud a liquid?
@Sp3000 my main problem is needing parentheses, those screw up a bunch of other languages (notably Cardinal and Prelude); and I also need to place code on the first line (or very early on the second), which screws up Turtlèd
I'd consider jelly a liquid if mud is a liquid
9:19 PM
I can hide code from Turtlèd with # signs, but that annoys ><>; and I tried moving the ><> code to the right in order to solve that, but that confused Pyth for some reason I haven't been able to establish yet
@Sp3000 For what it's worth, PowerShell should be (relatively) easy to get into the mix, as you just need to get a number on the pipeline. The problem is any parsing errors are terminating, so we'd need to surround the print statement with blockquote <# ... #> somehow, which messes up 2D languages.
mud is a suspension
i think jelly is a liquid
assuming that if it has chunks you classify it as a jam
Maybe it's a non-Newtonian, like the cornstarch/water mixture.
@TimmyD is # a comment in PowerShell? the 2D languages are fine with <# ... #> because most of them don't run the print line anyway
or a colloid
9:21 PM
Either way I think "swim" fits just fine. If it's fluid enough to move through, it's fluid enough to be called swimming imo.
@ais523 Yes, # is a single-line comment, and it can appear almost anywhere on the line and PowerShell will ignore anything after it.
I think you could leave most languages except possibly Retina happy with something like:
2 and print(...)# >#
Q: Approximate ellipse and print it out

user7185318This challenge is to get a x-radius and a y-radius as input and evaluate an ellipse of those. (x-radius as first argument) For example, with the values 1 and 1, something like that has to be the output : /\ \/ Or with 2 and 2: /‾\ | | \_/ But with 2 and 1: /‾‾\ \__/ ...

@TimmyD <# might be a bit tricky, but I'll give it a shot later. I'm just currently going through #-as-first-char multiline comments atm
@ais523 That's an interesting solution.
9:24 PM
@ais523 Which lang, out of curiosity?
@Sp3000 Underload (stringie)
Ah. Can't help much there :P
it's probably impossible to polyglot it following the spec (the first character in any valid Underload program is (), but stringie ignores anything it doesn't understand
unfortunately, it segfaults if you attempt to pop an empty stack
so you need to make sure to top the stack up a bit early
nothing in the existing program causes problems for Underload apart from stack underflow, though
@ais523 I don't think Python likes that without a line continuation char, and you can't wrap in () either in Py2
so the aim is to stick a (::):: in there early
@Sp3000 well, it ends with a binary operator, so I thought that would be OK, but maybe not? easy enough to test anyway
9:27 PM
How early is early? Because between @# on the first line is a free spot I think
ugh, yes, it crashes on 1< without even looking for the rest of the expression
anywhere on the first line will do
Oh boo.
I was trying further right
Well, likely scrap PowerShell then. Oh well.
if @# is a free spot, though, I think I can probably get that to work
9:28 PM
Yeah, the binary operations thing is only if you're in brackets of some sort, or at least that's one situation
But py2 print being a statement fails there
Explanation for @#: it's right after both Befunges have ended, before Turtled and ><>, so the only thing to be careful of it that it needs to be valid Pyth syntax I think (but runtime-wise I think the program already ends by that point)
How do I run a simple example program in J on TIO Nexus? Say the first example from here
ugh, Pyth doesn't like this
@TimmyD Thanks for that. On mobile and it's frustrating trying to link the sandbox in comments that way.
Maybe try moving the mismatched quote earlier so it's inside the Pyth string?
my first line looks like this at the moment:
but I don't know enough Pyth to know why it doesn't like it
9:37 PM
@Geobits You mean you don't have that saved as a keyboard macro? :D
Nah, I like to give it the personal touch when I do that. Cut/paste greetings aren't my style ;)
Now if we had a magic [Sandbox] link, that would be great.
@ais523 I think moving the last double quotes to between @( works, but you'll need more spaces on the fourth line to adjust for Prelude
(I don't have all interpreters on me atm, but that seems to work for the ones I can test)
the Underload was adjusted around the Prelude anyway
I can adjust it some more :-D
Is it just me, or does @( look like an unhappy cyclops?
nope, Pyth still doesn't like it
wait, I removed both " by mistake
9:41 PM
what happens when you shove a bunch of MoO statements in there
OK, seems to work in Pyth now
Sorry yeah, just one :P
now I'm doing the verification that it works in every language
if it does, I'll post it
thanks for the help!
Would love to add to the chain immediately, but I can only get to it tonight :/
ugh, need a space in the top line for Cardinal
easily fixed but I'll have to do all the testing again
10:00 PM
@LuisMendo you'll have to explicitly state that you want output somewhere using either stdout or echo (echo is what you should use)
most J examples expect to be run in the console where you'd have a repl
here's that example tio.run/nexus/…
@Sp3000: it works! I decided to leave the partridge in a pear tree joke out this time.
Q: Can we get a "magic link" to the Sandbox?

GeobitsOne of the more popular comments on our site goes something like this: Hi, and welcome to PPCG! Your challenge was closed because it's a bit unclear/broad/whatever as it is now. I would recommend posting in the Sandbox so you can get constructive feedback before you post to main. (Please ex...

@NewMetaPosts Nice to see you're on top of your game today.
^ anyone else seeing this?
10:10 PM
@Geobits Yeah, I came close to renaming it to Yesterday's Meta Posts.
@Geobits considering how little our current close votes apply, I'd totally just change a close vote to be the "Welcome, please refine your challenge in the sandbox"
@NathanMerrill That sounds like a good idea. Once the current debates on meta settle, we should figure out what custom close reasons we want as defaults.
@NathanMerrill Hmm. That's a thought. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it's certainly another option.
IMO, voting to close for anything other than offtopic should require you to make a comment
(offtopic has a nice set of predefined comments already)
10:12 PM
Either way, I think a [sandbox] link would be nice, regardless of whether or not a custom close reason is added for it.
duplicate makes the comment automatically (or, I discovered, automatically upvotes any comment where someone's mentioned the link you're marking as a duplicate, regardless of what the comment actually says)
@Dennis wait, which debate?
the one that geobits just posted?
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ^
@NathanMerrill I was referring to our current discussion wrt to what answers should contain.
ah :)
I didn't realize that meta was a 1-debate-at-a-time site :) /sarc
10:15 PM
boy am I glad I learned regex from Perl instead of PHP
@Dennis in case it matters, the clarity around "remove only" definitely pulled me to your side. I don't think its a perfect solution, but its the best one I can think of
@Rainbolt nod
P "Let's reorder the arguments that get passed to similar functions in nonsensical ways" H P
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I created that by adding a ton of <br>s to the html. Don't go posting on meta that I confirmed a bug find or anything...
@NathanMerrill Definitely not perfect, I agree, but I do think it's a step in the right direction.
@NathanMerrill I've posted three discussions in the past two days and there were four more in the same time frame. There's no upper limit, but I do think it's best to wait a little before posting the next big one.
10:27 PM
10 hours ago, by mınxomaτ
Why does this have so many reopen votes? It wasn't changed since it was locked and suffers from arbitrary restrictions. Plus the answer should be deleted as it is invalid.
The question is open again for whatever reason and the answer is still there.
@mınxomaτ tbh I don't see how it's unclear
It's not unclear. The answer should be deleted. The problem of the question is that there is exactly one solution.
actually, one issue that SE really has
is that you can't countervote a close/reopen vote
Would be different if the task were to write a program in any language that produces the smallest possible MO output for that language.
so if there are 10 people who think something should be closed, and 10 people who think it should be reopened
it gets closed, then reopened, then closed, then reopened
10:31 PM
I don't think countervotes are encouraged at all, so that shouldn't be a problem
well, if you think something should be open and there's a close vote ongoing
you can't do much but a) comment to try to persuade the voters to stop; or b) wait for it to close, then vote to reopen
controversial posts nearly always oscillate between open and closed, I've seen that happen several times recently
I think if there is contention over whether or not it should be closed, then it should be closed while discussion takes place
@Dennis "Will the input always be a 2D array?". I'm not sure I follow. What are you considering as an alternative?
@ais523 So would I get a vote, and a counter vote?
It's asking for the smallest Mach-O binary. I don't see how that's different from asking for "the smallest <single language> code to do X", which would be down-voted to hell. Eventually, the smalles technically valid binary will be found and that's it.
10:33 PM
I agree oscillation is a problem. At the moment it takes a mod to step in and lock the post - I'd like to see an automatic lock if a question starts cycling
that reminds me, here's a challenge I've wanted to post for a long time:
@Zizouz212 the idea would be that you could cast a "do not close" vote while there's a close vote ongoing; then the post would take one more vote to close, however it'd count as your reopen vote for that post
@mınxomaτ I don't know if the tag is saving it from those downvotes
I'm not sure whether the tag is relevant there either
That's not a tips question by any stretch of the imagination.
Make a Unix process that uses up the smallest amount of memory. The benchmark is a Linux 64-bit VM.
10:35 PM
It's code-golf & size-coding at best.
@ais523 Meh. It's far much better to go to meta and actually discuss it instead of trying to magical speculate about what people's minds are thinking
@miles Thanks! Is there something similar to take inputs? How would I do the addition example having 5 and 10 20 30 as inputs?
I'd rather not think about it, it just reminds me of how much I hate SE
@mınxomaτ It kind of fits with the last paragraph in the tips tag wiki, but I think the tag wiki should be changed to avoid that...
> This tag is also used for questions which ask for specific advice in reducing a particular piece of code further (in the given language).
I'm much better off here if I just golf and try to ignore the moderation side of things
10:36 PM
Who's talking about the magic links?
There's a user script...
@Dennis Looks like you found a compromise between the "gear" and the "play" icons :-)
giving people moderation powers based on golfing ability is a really bad idea, it should be based on knowledge of the software…
Yaar. I started writing an answer to that meta question, and then realized I don't have the link...
10:37 PM
31 mins ago, by New Meta Posts
Q: Can we get a "magic link" to the Sandbox?

GeobitsOne of the more popular comments on our site goes something like this: Hi, and welcome to PPCG! Your challenge was closed because it's a bit unclear/broad/whatever as it is now. I would recommend posting in the Sandbox so you can get constructive feedback before you post to main. (Please ex...

@trichoplax It's not asking for advice. It implies a challenge. It's still valid, as boring and trivial as it is. But the answer should still be deleted, as it is unrelated to question and invalid.
@mınxomaτ Oh I definitely agree about the answer - have downvoted, upvoted your comment, and will delete vote once enough downvotes come in
Haha found it!
today is a busy day today for PPCG. We've got 6 challenges on the first page of the Hot Questions list
language that simulates a microprocessor with a 16 bit size byte for golfing
10:39 PM
@trichoplax Also I don't see how the assembly tag is relevant, since the submission asks for the MO binary, not the assembly. As the comment shows, one doesn't need assembly to do that. I'd strip all tags but the code-golf and machine-code. Maybe add size-coding.
the way to get a post onto HNQ is: a) make sure that everyone can find an obvious (if not necessarily perfect) answer to it; b) give it an eyecatching/clickbaity name
that's about it
if you wanted to write a challenge specifically to hit HNQ, rather than to be a good challenge, it would be fairly easy
@NathanMerrill After re-reading the first paragraph, I think I can answer my own question. The input is always an array of arrays of integers, so it's 2D.
right, but the fact that we have 6 of them indicates lots of activity here today.
@Dennis ok :)
Here you go peeps. Comments for Golfers courtesy of @Doorknob
@LuisMendo :)
10:42 PM
@trichoplax I disagree with that. There's no reason to wait for downvotes. It should be deleted with a comment directing them to the guidelines, as has been done many times for other answers.
Downvotes won't really do anything.
They give time to react.
@mınxomaτ I just meant that I don't have the authority to delete vote without more downvotes. I see no reason not to mod flag it though - it's clearly invalid
Q: Print the missing primes

mojimonsterThe Task Write a program or function that, when passed a numerical input x, prints or returns the primes beneath the square root of x1 that are not factors of x. Examples Let f(x) be the function called: >>> f(5) [2] >>> f(20) [3] >>> f(60) [7] >>> f(100) [3, 7] >>> f(10000) [3, 7, 11, 13...

@trichoplax Huh? I could cast a delete vote.
hmm, Jelly really needs a command to filter a string using an external executable
10:45 PM
@mınxomaτ You have more rep than me...
Sorry, wasn't aware of that.
@mınxomaτ Sorry - I was assuming. We have similar rep, but I don't see a delete link
Confused now...
10:49 PM
@mınxomaτ Separate weird thing: is your network profile deliberately not accessible from your SO profile? Your chat profile links to your SO profile, and your PPCG profile links to your network profile which links to your SO profile, but I can't get to your network profile from your SO profile
(not a bad thing if you chose it, I just didn't realise it was possible)
I ...think so. I don't remember.
@mınxomaτ I solved the first weird thing - I couldn't delete vote because the answer wasn't at a negative score when I opened the page, and my downvote didn't trigger that to change. Refreshing the page allowed me to delete vote.
@NathanMerrill ho ha ha!
10:52 PM
I'm saying that
Tampermonkey isn't a solution. I don't use a browser at all for SE on mobile, much less a custom one specifically for it.
Wait. Do you use the SE app?
Oh dear. Good luck.
It would have to go through the SE API.
I like the app except for the sandbox bug
10:56 PM
Q: Shortest Konami code inplementation

Christopher PeartThe problem You must write a code then when the konami code is typed in (user hits UUDDLRLR BABA enter) says +30 lives and plays some sort of "ding" type noise. You may chose the noise. The rules You may not use variables of any sort (you can make a function just not things like int a = ["UUD...

@Zizouz212 I'm pretty sure the server is the one that takes care of parsing the text, which is where the [meta] link expansion happens
also, had no idea that worked in chat
but then, I had no idea that existed in the first place
My understanding of the app was that it takes a template for a site, and then uses it to display data in the app.
@NathanMerrill like Law or Open Source?
[law.se], [opensource.se], [codegolf.se]
Let me try to get a comment
CMC: best simile in this context: He chased it like __simile here__
I meant with a short link
@Geobits having seen your meta post, and then had to make a sandbox link to the latest challenge, I must say I now find it even more annoying...
11:00 PM
or magic link
or whatever the heck it's called
#1 Unethical Marketing: selling an unrelated "vampire" question as a CMC. (should I become a politician? :P)
@Zizouz212 it largely depends on whether the [link] expansion happens on the browser or on the server. Because markdown parsing happens on the server, I think the same will be true of [link] expansion
11:03 PM
Someone posted a spam question, and I got it deleted before anyone in here noticed. I think I did my job well, lol
Nice work
what does CMC: stand for anyway?
@ais523 Chat mini challenge
Canadian Mathematics Competition!
@ais523 Converted Mana Cost
11:05 PM
@Zizouz212 that might actually be synonymous
Challenging mental concentration
Chinese Metal Community
Curse, Many Cheats!
A lot of meanings to CMC : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMC
11:07 PM
Gosh darn it I'm so stupid
@NathanMerrill I get these fields
 "body_markdown": "Hold up... I&#39;m using a magic link! [meta] [opensource.se] [codegolf.se] [help]",
      "body": "Hold up... I&#39;m using a magic link! [meta] <a href=\"http://opensource.stackexchange.com\">Open Source</a> <a href=\"http://codegolf.stackexchange.com\">Programming Puzzles & Code Golf</a> <a href=\"http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/help\">help center</a>"
Q: Mondrian Puzzle Sequence

mbomb007Partition an n X n square into multiple non-congruent integer-sided rectangles. a(n) is the least possible difference between the largest and smallest area. ___________ | |S|_______| | | | L | | |_|_______| | | | | | |_____|___| |_|_________| (fig. I) The largest rectangle (L) has a...

So you were right. It does handle it at server :)
its cool that it passes you both the markdown and the html
I imagine that that is useful for quick edits
Does the app allowed you to edit comments? If that's the case, then it likely uses the html to display, and the markdown when editing
@trichoplax My plan is working, mwahaha
11:28 PM
Now that I'm home, I would personally like to apologize to everyone who uses PHP for work and has to deal with the rearranging of parameters between preg_replace and preg_replace_callback
11:43 PM
Somehow my dog opened up my browser history while I was gone. How rude.
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Christopher PeartThe problem You must write a code then when the konami code is typed in (user hits UUDDLRLR BABA enter) displayes +30 lives and plays some sort of noise The rules Make a noise Take the input from the user you can use Keyboard, mouse, ect. Must loop until the Konami code is entered You may use ...

I'm not even sure how he did it. Is there a shortcut in Chrome for that? I'd hate to think he's learned to use a mouse o_o
I'd be more interested in whether there's a keyboard shortcut to lock your screen :P
@Geobits Ctrl+H
@trichoplax Win+L
At least, for Windows.
Oh, cool. Okay, I'm less scared now. The mouse thing had me worried :P
11:47 PM
@Geobits ctrl + h
super ninja'd
@trichoplax Of course there is :P I'm just too lazy/absentminded to do that while at home.
I just learned that you can change the keyboard layout on windows with [alt]+[shift]
@El'endiaStarman Thanks :)
@flawr And another key? Or does it just not work for me?
How many keyboard layouts do you ahve enabled?
@flawr Ah - that would explain it :)
11:50 PM
(You can only switch between languages that way.)
@El'endiaStarman Huh, that works on ubuntu, too. I knew ctrl-alt-L would, but didn't know about that one.
@Geobits So am I - luckily I don't have a dog...
If f(x) = {"x" if x mod 2 is 0; "0" otherwise} what is lim x->∞ (f(x)) ?
@trichoplax oh and with crtl+shift you can switch between the layouts within the language
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC what set is x in? e.g. If x is in {0,2,4,8,...} it clearly diverges while if x is in {1,3,5,9,...} it converges.
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Does not exist. It diverges.
11:54 PM
@flawr Z
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yep then it diverges.
@El'endiaStarman Side note: It is if I say so and everybody else agrees. (It is if I make a postulate that ∞ is even and the math community accepts it.)
So then it doesn't exist :P
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC You just need a proof that the peninfinite number is odd :P
@El'endiaStarman I'm sure you know the "epsilon definition" of convergence (for a given epsilon abs( ...) < epsilon for all N > N0 yadayada)
I found it rather hard to teach people that concept
11:59 PM
@trichoplax You mean the w - 1'th number :P
If f(x) = {"x" if x mod 2 is 0; "0" otherwise} what is lim x->ALEPH NAUGHT (f(x)) ?
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC That's almost as catchy...
But recently I noticed that saying abs(...) epsilon for all but finitely many works much better

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