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4:00 PM
OK, Twitter's brand guidelines are absolutely insane. I can't use my website's foreground color or font family?
What? Why not?
There are even requirements for the margin around the logo.
I might just drop Twitter and make dedicated status/announcement pages with RSS feeds.
4:06 PM
I've never really looked at any brand guidelines before, but that seems really, really strict.
Twitter is popular and everything, but if I can't even display a frickin' link to my account without using Helvetica Neue, it's not worth it.
this is very much a "whatever we think we can get away with" field of marketing, I fear
Same thing with links in tweets that are "shortened" to an obfuscated and (on occasions) much longer URL.
I can stomach that, but the brand requirements are just plain idiocy.
The brand requirements seem to say "do it exactly the way we do or get the hell out" :P
I have custom fonts blocked by default on my primary browser (although I use my secondary browser for SE)
4:11 PM
partly bandwidth reasons (I have a bizarre connection), partly just because I don't generally like rich content in sites
I have JavaScript turned off by default, for example; the majority of sites are actually more usable that way
because they use it to implement features that are more harmful than useful for a casual reader
You'll need your secondary browser for TIO. :P
yes, I figured that out fairly quickly :-)
Happy Thanksgiving!
(I can also whitelist sites in my primary browser; TIO might have a whitelist, I'm not sure)
btw, how does TIO handle infinite loops? I tested a truth-machine on it and it gave me a kill button, which seemed to help
but I'm not sure if I want to put that much load on it
also I generally prefer testing things from the command line (thus my use of Rhino when I have a JavaScript answer), so I normally only use TIO when I need a feature specific to its interpreter (such as ignoring unknown commands in Underload)
4:15 PM
@ais523 It auto-kill a process after 60sec
you can produce a lot of output in 60 seconds
does it have an output size limit too? if not, I need to be careful of my bandwidth
@ais523 TIO also uses custom fonts. That's not really an issue for the sans serif font of v2 (although bandwidth isn't really an issue; both weights combined are only 19 KB and they're cached for a year), but the monospace font has excellent Unicode support and makes sure even languages like Jelly are rendered correctly on all devices. That's a 146 KB whopper, but if the font is installed locally, it's not downloaded. At least on Linux, DejaVu Sans Mono is installed by default.
oh, that seems fine
I have DejaVu Sans Mono, though I don't think it's installed by default on Windows computers.
4:17 PM
I actually have font packs installed that are specifically intended for showing hard-to-find characters (also I have DejaVu Sans Mono set as the default monospace font OS-wide)
@ais523 Processes are killed after 60 seconds or 100 KB of output, whichever happens first. v2 elevates the limit to 256 KiB, but compresses the output. For a truth machine, e.g., the bandwidth usage is minimal.
huh, come to think of it, SE appears to be overriding the font to something Courier-like
TIO's favicon looks like "IO"
which just makes things strictly worse AFAICT because the l and 1 look almost identical
DVSM has a really oddly-shaped l that's at least impossible to confuse with a digit
I like Menlo (font used in Android Studio)
4:18 PM
@ETHproductions It isn't. 146 KB (in browsers that support WOFF2) and cached for a year should not be problematic for most users though.
Hey, I just noticed I can now actually see the "Copy snippet" and "Donate" icons in TIO v1 (rather than Unicode boxes). Did you change something there recently?
146 KB is comparable to the typical image
it's not a huge burden
@ais523 Yep, it actually look like a big iota
146 KB is comparable to the typical image
@KritixiLithos I couldn't fit three letters in a 16x16 logo, so I decided for a subset of the letters (or a cropped version of the logo, if you prefer), which also hints input/output and on/off.
4:20 PM
Question: Is there actually commercially available hardware/software that will polarize your computer's monitor such that passive observers don't see what you're doing?
(i.e., you'd need special glasses or something to see it)
I'd assume there's hardware for that
you can fit a lot more than three letters into a 16×16 logo if you golf it sufficiently, although you have to get really close to the screen to rea dit
@ais523 All images on TIO are SVGs. With the surrounding HTML, CSS, and JS, they weigh 28 KB combined.
ik, it was mentioned on infosec.SE, just wondering if it's actually available
you can show a letter, plus room to separate it from the next letter, using 4 subpixels horizontally and 5 pixels vertically
4:21 PM
Choosing SVGs is a good choice, I like the icons
err, 6 vertically, if you want a line to separate
so that's two rows of 12 letters each
I assumed the icons were Unicode
The ones on the old versions are. I'm talking about those on tio.run.
I was going to keep using Unicode and include Symbola, but it's huge.
@ETHproductions I made some changes to the fonts, but not to that part. I guess you got a new/updated font somehow.
on another note, is it possible to make a suggested edit if you have more than 1k reputation?
4:25 PM
back when I was below the threshold, I used to suggest edits to authors then link them to the edit in the comments to see if they liked them or not
but now I'm losing site features as a result of posting popular answers, which seems backwards
instead I have to ask in advance if they'd be likely to approve of the edit
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Rohan JhunjhunwalaImplement the sin function. For those unfamiliar with trignometry. The sin function is a mathematical wave function, it can be defined a number of ways, but the canonical definition, is that it is sin(x) gives the ratio of the opposite side of an angle of measure (X) to the hypotenuse of a right...

@ais523 You shouldn't suggest those anyway; they can be approved by other users with edit privileges. Just leave a comment.
the last time I did it it was a huge rewrite that wouldn't easily fit in a comment
the challenge was previously far too vague, and the author didn't seem to understand English well and couldn't express what they wanted
so I asked if they'd be OK with a large revision, and after they said yes, rewrote the spec to match my best understanding of it
Then just edit. If it makes the post better without changing its meaning, you don't need the author's approval.
it did change the meaning in this case, probably
it's hard to tel
4:30 PM
Does anyone know what those diagrams that show the most common pairs of bytes in files are called?
@ais523 You can edit your messages in chatrooms (if it is posted in the last 2 minutes)
Unrelated but Perl black magic
correcting typos in chat is actually in my muscle memory from IRC at this point
I've done a lot of Google Image searching, but no luck. :(
also it's gone past the 2 minute threshold now anyway
@TuxCopter: oh, that's just eyedrops, and it's also relatively simple
Now, to find a polarization filter for a 20x11" monitor...
> relatively simple
I find all-alphanumeric Perl programs (letters, numbers, space, newline) more fun to write
seriously, though, just run it through a whitespace reformatter and it makes a lot more sense
@ais523 How is it possible
4:34 PM
it's pretty much entirely made out of strings being bitwise-ORed or bitwise-XORed together
here's a typical section from near the middle:
wat you can OR strings in perl
.(  '`'|"\"").(  '`'|"\%").(  '`'|"\%").
and yes, it ORs them character-wise
if you constant-fold the arithmetic there, you get bee
which is presumably part of beer
eyedrops constructs the whole program like that
then puts it inside a "run this code" construct inside a regex inside a string, to be able to eval it with punctuation marks only
but that's the only tricky part
JSFuck is more interesting because you have to hunt down the letters you need in the standard library somewhere (however, it's also much more verbose than Eyedrops)
btw, I didn't know how Eyedrops worked until I looked at that code a few minutes ago
but I find the code pretty readable, it's just the added whitespace that fools you into thinking it must be unreadable
that said, I'm not particularly inclined to resolve all the bitwise arithmetic in my head
Gitter room names cannot have spaces in them? For real?
but I think Eyedrops uses consistent encoding for consistent characters
Like this?
4:40 PM
Just flashed CM14.1.
It's awesome.
Is CM14 the Nougat version?
NOUGAT? I only have Marshmallow
yum nougat and marshmallow
@PhiNotPi Hmm, close. What I've seen were colored images based off of image byte data.
4:42 PM
@TuxCopter: as the comments on the site suggest, running the program through the constant-folder makes it immediately clear what it's doing
@ais523 That sounds pretty magical
How would you do that in Perl?
(eval without alphanumerics)
Regex 'eval construct' + variable interpolation I think
@Lynn: '' =~ "(?{" . string_to_evaluate . "})"
there we go, SE sucks at parsing backticks
Chat markdown sucks in general
No closing }? O_o
4:46 PM
note that this requires use re 'eval' (or -Mre=eval) or modern versions of Perl disallow it
For example,
*No Markdown in multiline messages!*
@Lynn fixed :-)
this is basically to prevent code injection vulnerabilities via user-specified regexes
Q: C.U.S.R.S - The Completely Useless String Refactoring System!

Basically Alan TuringIntroduction I'm a real big fan of the SBU (Short But Unique) challenges that crop up on PPCG all of the time. The CUSRS is a system designed to refactor strings, a CUSRS function takes 2 parameters and outputs 1 String. Challenge Produce a program, function, lambda or acceptable alternative t...

OK, here we go. gitter.im/tryitonline
I'm going to post this challenge if nobody has any objections.
4:56 PM
Not enough jQuery.
@ETHproductions yes I do
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

undergroundmonorailObjection! code-golf In the near future, the legal world is crumbling. If a case lasts longer than three days, the defendant is assumed to be guilty. Prosecutors create false evidence to get their guilty verdict or flawless record. Defense attorneys are forced to retaliate, claiming that the e...

Directly below it
@Dennis The site uses jQuery, isn't that enough?
@quartata Alright, you got me :P
@ETHproductions Just to see if I understood correctly: We wait before printing the first character as well, yes?
Yes. I'll see if I can clarify that in the post.
4:58 PM
initial/next instead of next would make it clearer imho.
Better now?
MS developers are humans, too: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13028998
@ETHproductions Yes. Does the distribution has to be uniform?
Ooh, good question. I'd say yes, unless there's a good reason not to require that.
Not really. I'm just asking because non-uniform might be easier/shorter.
5:03 PM
Aha, "visualizing binary data" gets the sort of results I wanted on Google.
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ETHproductionsMake it a pangram code-golf string Your challenge is to write a program or function that, when given a string composed of printable ASCII chars (32-126) through any normal input method, outputs or returns a shortest possible string to make it a pangram (a string that contains every letter in th...

> A quick brown fox jumps over the lazy doorknob.
no g
unless I'm missing one
vim is very pleasant to compile. Maybe I'm just used to horribly unportable C/++ projects.
Question: How to test in sh if a program is in the PATH?
5:13 PM
which <program>
How do you touch with a non-default file mode?
Not in man file
You don't. touch is meant to update timestamps, not to create files.
Using touch to create files is widely used in many programs.
Maybe because I'm using a BSD manual from April 28,1995
5:16 PM
you can probably do it by messing around with umask but nobody wants to do that
@mınxomaτ ^
@mınxomaτ I'm not disputing that. But since it's not the intended use case, it's not surprising that you cannot specify permissions with a flag.
I like how some programs / languages are used for something different altogether. But I resent compiler creators who tell their users to "stop abusing" the language
When they make a feature more useful than it actually is.
well, if it conflicts with compiler optimizations, that can be a good reason to tell people to stop
I like Microchip, though (who manufacture low-powered processors)
There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.
5:18 PM
I like how passing -e to open on mac opens stuff in notepad (TextEdit technically).
they produce guides listing all the things-that-would-normally-be-considered-undefined-behaviour in their products, together with advice on how to exploit it :-D
> If any file does not exist, it is created with default permissions.
Stupid question: strcmp() in C compares string lengths or char-by-char equivalence?
The latter.
I have a plugin that opens man pages as a nicely formatted pdf (temp file).
I made a script thing:
touch $1
chmod 755 $1
open $1
to make scripts
5:24 PM
Yet another self-modifying hack that /// engineers will beg for it ...
I'm wondering why touch is popular for file creation though. Why not >> file which is shorter and doesn't invoke an external program?
Good morning, and happy thanksgiving to those of you who celebrate it!
@DrMcMoylex Good evening!
@Dennis TIL about file
Q: Is it a Linearized Tree? (Breadth-first Edition)

LaikoniBackground An unlabelled tree may look like this: o / | \ o o o | / \ o o o To linearize this tree, we first label each node o with it's number of child nodes: 3 / | \ 1 0 2 | / \ 0 0 0 and then write the numbers in a list in a breath-first manner, meaning line by...

5:31 PM
Maybe touch is on more OS
@DrMcMoylex checks clock 18:32...
@Downgoat No, I mean file as in >> goat.txt.
file does something else.
@Dennis shift key
Obviously I know it's not morning everywhere. I still enjoy greeting TNB with a "good morning"
Decent morning!
5:37 PM
Meh, could be better
@Dennis Of course
@DrMcMoylex I was going to say that you're in the only (contiguous) US timezone that is currently in morning, but then I realized that I'm in the only one that isn't :P
(a little late to the party I see)
Q: Hiccup a string

ETHproductionsYour challenge is to write a program or function that hiccups a string. It should take a string as input (via any standard method), then follow these steps: Generate a uniformly random integer n between 1 and 10, inclusive. Wait n seconds. Print the initial/next n chars of the input, or the res...

@ETHproductions Well tbf it's a little late for "morning". If morning == before noon we're good though
5:50 PM
@ETHproductions IMO anything before 1 is morning, so you're still good :p
Does it still count if you haven't slept since yesterday?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Not anymore ;p
Yep. It's the past tense of sleep.
Morning doesn't wait for non-sleepers.
6:05 PM
@Geobits Past participle in this case.
I don't know what that means? What is sleep?
@Geobits And yes I know what it means.
@Doorknob Works as both :P
@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー It's that thing you don't do when you're at the hospital all night
slept is used in both slept and have slept, so... yeah.
> I don't know what that means? ... And yes I know what it means.
@Geobits Well, it seems I'm an exception, since I'm not in the hospital at all. I NEED... SLEEEEEEP!!! Like, 10-12 hours per day.
@ETHproductions I meant I knew what the past tense was, not its definition :P
6:10 PM
@Geobits You were in the hospital all night?
I'm not really sure what's going on any more, but I'm too tired to argue at the moment.
@KritixiLithos Not for me, a family member needed surgery though, so I've been up here.
It's that I have exams on High School and I don't have sleep, The ultimate solution to life, the universe and everything. sleep = 42
@Geobits Oh my.. I wish they get better ASAP.
@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Yeah, the surgery went fine (gall bladder removal), and in recovery now. Thanks :)
@Geobits gall bladder removal ugh... that had to be tough. I'm sorry they had to do such a hard thing that would change the whole rest of their life. Life sucks sometimes, if anything, just encourage them to go on.
It doesn't sound too bad, really. For otherwise healthy people (he is), the liver picks up the slack in bile production after a couple of months.
So, restricted diet for a few months, then usually back to normal.
I mean, still sucks, but it's not overly life-changing is all.
6:21 PM
I hope he did laparoscopic. Now, I ask to stop discussing this topic, I don't want anyone to shed tears.
Someone I knew had a gall bladder removal. The thing he hated the most about it was the diet restriction (no beef, no mutton)
There's this website, gethuman.com, that tells you how to get a human for customer support. Like press zero 8 times or press 37658
Press 4567 for a taco truck....
@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Yep, laproscopic. It all went smoothly.
Apparently exporting PGP was once illegal
PGP == munitions
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC What are you talking about?
6:30 PM
@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… .
> Cryptosystems using keys larger than 40 bits were then considered munitions within the definition of the US export regulations
lol safety to its knees
@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー cryptosystem that supports key > 40 bits == guns/rockets/spaaaace
Username is too long
Yeah it's 19 chars/37 bytes.
At least the transliteration looks right :P
I've seen some really badly done ones.
7:05 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

CrazyPythonGenerate fake PGP keys code-golf Input public or private; indicates if the header and footer should say PUBLIC or PRIVATE ; - a delimiter Version string ; - a delimiter Comment string An example input would be: public;Keybase OpenPGP v1.0.0;https://keybase.io/crypto Output format -----BEGI...

@Geobits would you mind responding to my comment on your challenge? ;)
Just power cycled after 19 days of uptime
Wow, reopened all 71 of my tabs and the memory usage is muuuch lower
Some memory leakage there
Conan Christopher O'Brien (born April 18, 1963) is an American television host, comedian, and television producer. He is best known for hosting several late-night talk shows; since 2010 he has hosted Conan on the cable channel TBS. O'Brien was born in Brookline, Massachusetts, and was raised in an Irish Catholic family. He served as president of The Harvard Lampoon while attending Harvard University, and was a writer for the sketch comedy series Not Necessarily the News. After writing for several comedy shows in Los Angeles, he joined the writing staff of Saturday Night Live. O'Brien was a writer...
7:21 PM
@MartinEnder Oh, sorry. Meant to do that, but yeah, the intent was that it should work whichever one is bigger.
That's a problem for the Mathematica one. I'll comment on that
I can't run it at the moment, but does it handle it wrongly, or is the output just rotated?
> A study (PDF)[1] demonstrates that animations can increase the perceived speed of a download by up to 11% over a bar that is not animated.
If rotated, that's fine, since I've said the output orientation doesn't matter.
If it inscribes it wrongly (rect inside rhombus), then that's an issue.
No the rhombus then extends beyond the rectangle
Because it only checks the intersection with the horizontal sides.
7:24 PM
Ah, ok. Thanks for catching that :)
So if you simply sorted the inputs first, that would be valid? (I.e. rotation depending on input)
Q: Why do users click randomly and rapidly when an application hangs?

KaiThis question came to me when I witnessed a collegue's behaviour on an application freezing due to a large operation. And it's something I've certainly done myself. An app freezes for more than a couple seconds and we start clicking at it. Repeatedly. Often in no particularly meaningful place, a...

@MartinEnder Sure, that sounds fine
7:42 PM
@NonAmericans do you know what the ridiculous thing known as a "filibuster" is? It makes reading Dr. Seuss novels for 8 hours a valid move in congress (yes it has happened) to prevent a bill from being passed.
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC nonamerican here, TIL.
@ardao You basically make a speech and the only rule is to keep talking. As long as you make the speech, you prevent a vote. Eventually the people who want to pass the bill get so bored they quit.
Longest was 3 days
Of talking.
Happens weekly in congress
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC wtffffffffff
There's also virtual filibuster which is filibuster but lazier and less talking
Like call role, it takes 3 hours
@TuxCopter you can also do filibusters on supreme court nominees
Sanders did an 8 hour one in 2010
> According to the Supreme Court ruling in United States v. Ballin (1892), changes to Senate rules could be achieved by a simple majority. Nevertheless, under current Senate rules, a rule change itself could be filibustered, with the votes of two-thirds of those senators present and voting (as opposed to the normal three-fifths of those sworn) needed to end debate
Filibuster = DDoS the Senate by blocking the only worker thread
NPR podcast on topic, very good: npr.org/sections/money/2012/12/11/166993494/…
"I'm just a bill, sitting on capital hill... oh shit filibuster"
Some of the stuff in the UX SE sounds a lot like they are taking care of pets or small children
7:54 PM
@Kade ?
"The reason I believe it is important to have an apologetic tone is to ensure you are communicating to the user that, though a mistake has been made and he is interacting with a machine or application in this case, you still respect his action and are humanizing the mistake."
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Hey, congress works hard
@Kade "Ah f--k. Your sysadmin doesn't allow you to do this action."
Affordable Care Act - Ted Cruz - Filibuster - Length: 21 hours
@Kade because they are.
7:58 PM
I dealt with ALL kinds of users.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ugh
you think you don't like it, you live across the world from him ;_;
@arda At what corporation
@TuxCopter If trump were in the senate, that might be worse
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC not employed. Mostly teachers, family members and students, and well, they can get to that level where they're no better than a kid.
@arda oh yep teachers :)
I like how that feeling is international
8:12 PM
"I can't tell you the number of times that clicking furiously on my mouse has actually appeared to solve the problem."... well I can't tell you the number of times that screaming at the TV has helped my team win. It doesn't always work but it has worked so many times that I swear by it. — JoelFan May 10 '13 at 15:30
> I can't tell you how many times posting a good cartoon or interesting article has restarted chat activity
Google’s AI translation tool seems to have invented its own secret internal language
Spanish -> X -> English
I just happened to get to the end of reading up on the last couple of pages of transcript...
Q: Are "Language Challenges" Viable?

Challenger5I imagine a form of challenge where users would create their own golfing language that would specialize in a given area (like string handling or ASCII-art) and write an interpreter. After the languages were created, challenges would be revealed and the language creators had to solve each challeng...

@MartinEnder randomest thing ever
8:18 PM
better? :P
So I'm working on the Twin Tin Bots meta-programming KOTH controller, and I have a design question. So each turn, the player is able to edit their "command sequence" (represented by an array) by a limited amount. There's a couple ways to do this:
(1) pass the array as an argument to the player's makeMove() method, which returns an array. (2) create a CommandSequence class which contains the array and has mutator methods to edit the array, the benefit being that it contains all of the code to verify moves / prevent illegal edits.
Poll: How many posts on the starboard have you starred?
Two for me
@PhiNotPi 1
That way the programmer can use the array manip functions they are comfortable with
And add a islegal() function
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Three
@PhiNotPi what's the language, can you overload normal array stuff to be the mutators? (e.g. python __setitem__)
@PhiNotPi I take it the player code won't be able to keep the array in memory ready for next move?
8:22 PM
Oh important point: your player is the only thing to edit the array. In situation 1, the argument is the same as the return value from last turn.
@MartinEnder ????
I agree with matylsen
the implication was that NMP was excessively slow
This is going to be Java / compatible.
@PhiNotPi ಠ_ಠ
then 1
@Maltysen I know people don't really like Java-only-KOTHs, but you can't beat practicality.
8:25 PM
@PhiNotPi Why not Python?
Python has great array and string manip
Also java array manip = ewww
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I would have to learn Python.
@PhiNotPi Was that one meant for me?
@PhiNotPi do it
fixed ping
@PhiNotPi ''.join([char for char in s if char not in string.ascii]) = unicode chars in string
8:28 PM
@PhiNotPi You also mistyped "have" instead of "love"
import string
I wrote a C++ KOTH controller a while ago. Would that be helpful?
@DJMcMayhem why c++!?
c++ for speed
KOTH not for speed
Why not? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No string manipulation is involved in this challenge. Also, speed actually is important for KOTHs.
8:30 PM
@PhiNotPi I actually like language specific KotHs. I'd like to see some language agnostic ones, and some in different specific languages, hopefully covering as many different specific languages as possible.
@PhiNotPi why?
@trichoplax KotH Comm supports language agnostic; been used before
The C++ controller was language agnostic
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC because they take hours to run
@PhiNotPi Ok but make them write the submissions in pypy or something
c++ koth submission no fun
docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/concurrency/ guardmeth .html
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I would actually relabel those "hear" "mean" and "say" respectively
8:39 PM
What golfing languages have a downloadable compiler and are relatively easy to learn. I currently code in Python3 and MatLab.
I meant one language per KotH - I'd like to see a C KotH, a Java KotH, a Nim KotH, maybe even a CJam KotH or a Jelly KotH.
Most golfing languages don't have a compiler, rather an interpreter
Jelly and MATL would be good because Jelly would behave much like you would expect a Python program to behave with similar functions and MATL is based on (?) MatLab.
Fair enough. I've seen Pyth is close to python, but it seems a lot to learn. I'll look at Jelly
youtube.com/watch?v=F0r9D6HZEnU - this is what normal programming feels like
^ hilarious
That's what programming normally feels like
@george I'd say Pyth is much closer to Python than Jelly is. At least the syntax shouldn't feel as weird as Jelly's.
Pretty much every golfing language is a lot learn since they look like complete gibberish until you start to "get" them :P
8:54 PM
- Bigger-pile-of-money diplomacy
- Bigger-gun diplomacy
help does anybody know what to have for lunch when fast food places are closed ;_;
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ walmart sandmmiches?
wait no ppcg can certainly think of more delish stuff

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