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wat
12:00 AM
Also, they're cheap crappy TN LCD monitors bought for $12 each at a thrift store
 
oh
then 16:10 is amazing!
and where do you live where thrift shops have 3 16:10 monitors?
what res
 
wat
1440x900 seattle, wa, usa area
 
not bad
 
@El'endiaStarman which version of minkolang is on your website?
I mean, it says 0.15, but the github only has up to 0.14
 
wat
Yes, that's exactly what you think it is
 
12:07 AM
a Kindle?
 
wat
...yes, that too -_-
 
did you open a terminal on a Kindle?
 
wat
Yes
 
I could see a Kindle being useful as a makeshift tablet once rooted. I mean, they do have free 3G
 
wait really? huh. I must have been duped.
 
12:10 AM
Yeah Whispernet. It depends on what make you get though
 
wat
umm
@quartata Only if you pay the extra $80 (?)
 
@quartata What does "free" mean here?
 
wat
@LuisMendo no monthly fee
 
@wat Really? So does Amazon pay the mobile network operator costs? Anyway, I guess that will happen only for accessing very specific content
 
wat
@LuisMendo Yeah, they only allow Wikipedia and Amazon Whispernet
 
12:19 AM
heh
"useful"
 
@wat Oh, that I did not know. I suppose that makes sense
Still better than nothing right
 
wat
Wat.
 
That's just from the VNC server
 
@wat username checks out
 
wat
@quartata Running a vnc server on a kindle paperwhite. WTF.
 
12:26 AM
They're just Linux
Hell they use awesome for the WM
It's practically just a ball of open source software
 
wat
IKR.
You can compile basically any GTK+ app for it
 
Yeah it's all just X
 
wat
You could say that it is pretty... awesome.
...great, i launched a browser and the vnc server crashed
 
"The Nineteenth Byte (4)" switches to tab (removed) (removed) (removed) (removed)
 
wat
sorry, i was posting spam
 
12:41 AM
Literally.
 
0
Q: Proposed golfing showcase

xnorI'm looking for feedback on a showcase idea that's a bit like Best of PPCG, but on main. While inspired by Showcase your language one vote at a time, it's not meant as a replacement. Each answer would link to a golf (or fastest code, code challenge, etc) that the answerer considers worthy of ad...

 
idea for python-esque language: when you do . to get a method, like foo.bar(), it uses get to bind its first argument to the owner, this is how the self magic works. How about instead, to abandon all classes and to make . simply be the binding operator for functions, even if foo doesn't have anything called bar
its probably useless, and goes against python's rule about having more namesspaces, but seemed like a fun idea
 
1:01 AM
How about make calling style flexible, allowing foo.bar, foo.bar() and bar(foo) to do the same thing? :)
 
I'm pretty sure I've seen that proposed before now, I forget which language
possibly C++
or possibly Perl 6
it might even be both
 
:P it's in Nim, at least
 
Perl allows foo->bar() to be written foo->bar if it doesn't take arguments, and bar foo in some circumstances which are fairly hard to describe
but not the reverse
i.e. you can write a method like a function, but not a function like a method
 
@Sp3000 well the idea was to make bar(foo, egg) the same as foo.bar(egg)
 
... yeah, that's what Nim does, is what I meant :P
 
1:04 AM
foo.bar without parens would give you you <bound-function> bar with self=foo without calling it
@Sp3000 even if foo doesn't have bar defined on it?
 
@Maltysen In JS, that's bar.call(foo, egg)
 
@Maltysen The way it works is a bit like this: ideone.com/IQj6ZJ
 
Howdy
...How does this site not have a design yet?
It's been a long time since it's graduated
 
@ETHproductions yeah I know
 
I like the current design
 
1:19 AM
@ETHproductions I was thinking more like bar.bind(null, foo)(egg)
 
@ais523 It's the generic beta design
 
@Sp3000 yeah that's exactly what I was thinking off, that's cool
 
sites which customize their styling to reflect the site content (as opposed to customizing it in an attempt to look good) really annoy me, I prefer everything to work consistently and look good but simple
 
@Sp3000 nim looks cool
 
arguably the correct solution for this site would be to attempt to create a working style in the minimum possible number of bytes of CSS :-)
 
1:21 AM
The syntax is also relatively Python-esque, so I guess it also checks that box :P
 
except static typing
 
:P
 
@ais523 That's a strange thing to be annoyed about it
Looking good and reflecting the content aren't mutually exclusive
 
they tend to be, because reflecting the content normally requires adding nonfunctional complexity
things like background images, unusual font choices, and the like
this is a big problem on Reddit, which has individual communities in much the way that Stack Exchange does
 
Looking good on which browsers exactly?
 
1:24 AM
there's an option to use a stock style everywhere, which I use, and find the site almost unusuable without it due to banner images, buttons moved to different places, and occasionally even stupid styling gimmicks
oh, I'm assuming that the style would look much the same on every browser, although if we were golfing it, maybe it wouldn't and we'd have to add some more objective rules
 
@ais523 Wouldn't you at least agree with something like this?
 
ugh, no, that puts way too much prominence on the top of the page, which is almost information-free
 
@ais523 Why is that a bad thing?
 
additionally I tend to dislike sites which use both very dark and very bright colours as it means I can't adjust the site colours via a simple linear transformation in order to produce a predominant colour of my choice and have it still be readable
(which is useful late at night when I want to reduce the amount of light coming out of my laptop and keeping me awake)
 
@Maltysen Now that I think about it though, I think the way it's implemented in Nim is more syntactical, so I don't think just 3.add is valid. Oh well, it was close :(
 
1:27 AM
@ais523 Nearly every SE site does the same thing, no?
 
that said, I'm a bit weird; I'm annoyed the fact that it's become standard for websites to style themselves
rather than style being a user option (so that they can set it consistently for every site)
but it's too late to change now
 
But not all sites have the same content...
 
and yes, nearly every SE site does the same thing, and as a result I end up wincing whenever I end up linked elsewhere in SE
why should the style reflect the content? its purpose isn't to convey information
 
@Sp3000 it should be possible in python with metaclasses i think
 
wat
@ais523 Do you have Reddit Gold? If you do try using the "serene" theme
 
1:30 AM
Yeah, it's probably possible in langs with access to internals, with enough tinkering :P Not that I'd know how
 
just overload __getattribute__ to check global scope for a callable and do the normal bound method thing for it
 
@wat no, I just disable custom styling sitewide, it works fine for me
 
@ais523 How humans work, I guess. If every site looked the same you'd forget what's what, and if you had to style every site yourselves then most end users would complain that takes too long.
 
wat
@ais523 ok, cool. I find the default theme old and outdated.
 
@ais523 I'm just not sure what this would entail. By default would every site be a linear sequence of black text and occasional images?
 
1:31 AM
@Maltysen Hm... actually, yeah that doesn't sound too bad :) nice
 
wat
@ais523 Do you have RES installed?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies: yes; the web used to be like that ages ago, and it was entirely usable; in fact modern versions of Firefox have a button to force a page into a standard styling
@wat: no
 
wat
@ais523 Install it. Now.
It improves it SO MUCH
Doesn't change the styles though
 
@Sp3000 the problem would actually be a scoping thing I think, cuz . isn't a binary operator, it gives getattribute a string
 
@wat: no, it adds the sort of features I'm not interested in (and in some respects I'd find annoying / a distraction)
 
wat
1:33 AM
@ais523 ._.
um
like what?
 
things like user tagging
 
wat
I mostly use it for the "hide child comments" and keyboard navigation.
 
in general I prefer to have as little state recorded in my websites as possible
 
wat
You can disable user tagging
 
@Maltysen Hmm I'm not quite sure what the scope issue would be - you'd have access to globals()/vars(), right?
 
1:34 AM
you can hide a comment (including all its children) pretty easily with Reddit's standard interface
 
wat
That hides the actual comment though.
 
oh, the child comments are much of the interest for me on askreddit, and if a particular tree is unwieldy you can collapse the whole thing
 
@Sp3000 well I would need to access the locals() in the context that called foo.
 
most of my askreddit activity is in third- or fourth-level comments
 
not in __getitem__
 
wat
1:36 AM
@ais523 sorry, i meant /r/writingprompts.
 
oh, that makes more sense, but I don't go there often
 
@Maltysen ... ah, gotcha.
 
most of the subreddits I frequent are very small
 
wat
Also, with RES, you can do this
 
> Your connection is not private. Attackers might be trying to steal your information from files.dkudriavtsev.xyz
 
wat
1:38 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies Are you using Safari on a Mac?
 
wait, is that RES that restyled the front page? that grey bar is really distracting
 
@wat Chrome on Win10
 
wat
@ais523 actually, I set it as a custom style.
 
also I basically never use the front page, except by mistake; the only reason I subscribe is to give convenient links at the top of the page
 
wat
Try unsubscribing from everything and only subscribing to the subs you visit
 
1:39 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies @wat looks like you'll have to get a certificate :P
 
@wat: no, that's what I did
I still don't use the front page
 
wat
nm then.
 
because I care about the subs individually, and mixing them doesn't make much sense
 
wat
@Maltysen I have a cert. This is my HTTP-only domain.
 
ah
why is that a thing?
 
1:40 AM
@Maltysen Or @wat just use imgur like SE does automatically with the image upload button
 
wat
I upload screenshots to it via ShareX.
I use it mostly for getting files on devices that have an internet connection, but use busybox. (Busybox doesn't support HTTPS)
 
interesting
 
wat
But I also use it as a secondary domain, and for screenshots.
Basically, I'm trying to avoid HTTPS overhead.
 
@Sp3000 looks like its possible with inspect, though really ugly
 
o_O well... huzzah?
 
1:45 AM
@wat If you make an imgur account you can delete images if you want. Why reinvent the wheel? (For fun, sure, but if you want people to trust your image links...)
 
wat
@Calvin'sHobbies My school blocks imgur
 
@wat wow
speaking of places blocking websites, google wifi assistant is great for this stuff
it automatically sets up a vpn
 
wat
iphone
 
ah
 
1:53 AM
Does anyone know if PhantomJS has SVGPathElement?
(@Downgoat)
Guess I'll find out
I hope it does because Chrome's console can't really handle this much data
 
@quartata have you tried it? dev console has surprised me in the past
 
Well aside from the fact that I don't have a good way of redirecting it to a file
It's a lot of lines
Like about ~5000
 
you're prolly right, I would just try it first before getting mixed up with phantomjs
 
pls halp python is being super weird:
 
@ais523 I'm not convinced greedy is optimal for Oliver's sandboxed challenge, but I'm also having trouble thinking of a counterexample. Would you happen to have a test case in mind?
 
1:59 AM
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/lib/node_modules/node-gyp/gyp/gyp_main.py", line 16, in <module>
    sys.exit(gyp.script_main())
  File "/usr/local/lib/node_modules/node-gyp/gyp/pylib/gyp/__init__.py", line 545, in script_main
    return main(sys.argv[1:])
  File "/usr/local/lib/node_modules/node-gyp/gyp/pylib/gyp/__init__.py", line 538, in main
    return gyp_main(args)
  File "/usr/local/lib/node_modules/node-gyp/gyp/pylib/gyp/__init__.py", line 514, in gyp_main
    options.duplicate_basename_check)
like wat
 
@Downgoat I think this is fairly self explanatory
Also what ugly ass Python code are you running anyways
Looks like... well..
 
not exactly
def ProcessToolsetsInDict(data):
  if 'targets' in data:
    target_list = data['targets']
    new_target_list = []
    for target in target_list:
      # If this target already has an explicit 'toolset', and no 'toolsets'
      # list, don't modify it further.
      if 'toolset' in target and 'toolsets' not in target:
        new_target_list.append(target)
        continue
      if multiple_toolsets:
        toolsets = target.get('toolsets', ['target'])
WHERE ARE ALL THESE THINGS DEFINED
why cant python have proper scoping like a sane language
 
Python's scoping is block like every other language on the planet
And if it's global in order to modify it you need a global
So none of these things are global
i.e it's all defined in there
 
could this be caused by perhaps wrong version of python
 
Perhaps. I'd need to see more code.
Search for raise.
PhantomJS is literally giving me no error messages right now
 
2:03 AM
@Sp3000: 10 6 5 3 2 2 when the goal is to fit into size 14; greedy algorithm gives 10 3, 6 5 2, 2; best solution is 10 2 2, 6 5 3
(I didn't have an example to hand, just worked that one out)
 
@quartata here's all code:
error is at line 335
 
@ais523 Neat, k :)
 
@Downgoat Yeah, that's Python 2.
 
ok im using python2
I've also specifically set it to python2 so its running pytohn 2
 
What's in data anyways?
What is this thing
 
2:06 AM
@ConorO'Brien I haven't updated GitHub in ages. The website is 0.15.
 
@quartata ikr, python code
 
In response can you tell me what's going on here:
  if (status === "success") {
    var result = []
    page.evaluate(function() {
      var goat = document.getElementById("goat_1_");

      for (var i = 0; i < goat.getTotalLength(); i++) {
        var point = goat.getPointAtLength(i);

        result.append(point.x + " " + point.y);
      }
    });

    result.forEach(function(elem) { console.log(elem); });
  }
 
@El'endiaStarman ah. can you update github sometime soon? I'm using minkolang in that polyglot challenge
 
ReferenceError: Can't find variable: result

  phantomjs://webpage.evaluate():7
  phantomjs://webpage.evaluate():9
  phantomjs://webpage.evaluate():9
 
2:07 AM
@quartata I think it's because result is out of the callback's scope
 
@ConorO'Brien But why?
It's lexical .... right?
Oh I know why
It's because of JS and it's damn window thing.
When I enter the page's environment window gets overwritten
 
@quartata wait are these line numbers right
 
And with it the variable
@Downgoat Yeah, but that was just a snippet
7 is var goat
9 is the for loop
Which confuses me even more
Maybe it's relative to the function signature
So... how do I define a variable that isn't in window?
 
Wait, what's page and by extension page.evaluate?
 
@ConorO'Brien Alright, I'll do that tonight.
 
2:09 AM
@ETHproductions var page = require("webpage").create();
 
@quartata I don't think you can
 
I'm not sure what that means to be honest but I'm told this is how you use PhantomJS
@ETHproductions ...
Apparently you have to do this:
 
But that would completely defeat the purpose of the .evaluate() function, I guess, so there must be a way around it...
 
37
Q: Pass arguments with page.evaluate

TheFistI'm using PhantomJS page.evaluate() to do some scraping. My problem is that the code I pass to the webkit page is sandboxed, and so has no access to the variables of my main phantom script. This makes it hard make the scraping code generic. page.open(url, function() { var foo = 42; page.eva...

js in a nutshell
 
@El'endiaStarman thanks :D
 
2:11 AM
The accepted answer made me cry
Looks like they changed it so you can pass something in though
TypeError: 'undefined' is not a function (evaluating 'result.append(point.x + " " + point.y)')
good to know
I'm guessing it's push?
 
@quartata There's probably a simpler way to do that using just .apply(), let me think
 
I already fixed it
 
@quartata Yes
 
hey look at that it worked and outputted nothing
yay
Does this not do what I think it does?
result.forEach(function(elem) { console.log(elem); });
 
That does exactly what you think it does
 
2:13 AM
Ah, delightful. It passes a copy of result in.
Who designs this anyways
 
What does console.log(result) give you?
 
Empty line.
i.e it modified a copy
The only reason I'm doing this anyways
is that you can't console.log inside evaluate
They've done a very good job of making this very useless
 
...because of that window thing, I presume
 
Yes.
 
Why the heck would they override window?
 
2:15 AM
Because it enters the scope of the page.
i.e once I retrieve the webpage it runs JavaScript inside of it
 
Is there any way to pass data from inside the page.evaluate to outside of it, where it can then be examined?
 
I figured something out:
Apparently there's this thing:
var system = require("system");
Actually nevermind
I guess that answer is just out of date because system.stdout does not exist
But looks like you can return something from the callback
Woot victory
 
Is there any way to return something from page.evaluate()? If not, it's 99% useless
 
And I only had to iterate through the results 3 times
 
Oh, what did you do?
 
2:20 AM
@ETHproductions Yeah, that's what I figured out
    var result = page.evaluate(function() {
      var goat = document.getElementById("goat_1_");
      var result = []

      for (var i = 0; i < goat.getTotalLength(); i++) {
        var point = goat.getPointAtLength(i);

        result.push(point.x + " " + point.y);
      }

      return result;
    });

    result.forEach(function(elem) { console.log(elem); });
Once for constructing, once for copying it back into scope, once for printing
Not counting growing the array
 
I knew we had to be missing something. No decent JS developer would make something that useless :P
 
:P
Yikes, this is a lot of points.
I'm not a fan of 4000-sided polygons.
 
What's this for, anyway?
 
Need to reduce the amount of vertices clearly
@ETHproductions Downgoat gave me an SVG of his avatar, I'm trying to convert it into a set of points so that I can turn it into a model and then into a brush for Hammer
I want some goat shaped things
 
2:25 AM
Even that lets you say "five" in 50 different languages
 
Anddd
It turns out
Blender can do this for you.
So that was a complete waste of 30 minutes
 
But hey, we learned "a lot" about how "great" and "easy to use" JS "is"
 
Exactly
 
@DrMcMoylex this has exactly 5 uses
 
Better question is can Google Sketchup do this
Because I can convert from Google Sketchup -> VMF -> Prefab directly
 
2:28 AM
Hey, who created GolfScript? I can't find any info on the GS website
 
Already upvoted
Don't feel like reposting my chat answer though sorry
 
Where the **** are the first eighteen bytes???
 
No prob
 
I might later if it doesn't seem to be going so good.
 
2:29 AM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Being digested
 
But I feel like it should be self-evident that we haven't come to a consensus yet
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Here
 
Woot, Sketchup SVG importer: github.com/sbliven/sketchup_svg_importer
Now do I still have Sketchup set up on here...
 
@ETHproductions darren smith aka flagitious
 
@MitchSchwartz I've always wondered if he knows about CJam
 
2:34 AM
@MitchSchwartz Good to know, thanks.
 
@ETHproductions Missing FlogScript for a start
GS2
 
I know it's incomplete, are there any other major languages missing?
I'll add those two
 
It's been so long since I've used Blender.
How do I fly again?
Shift+F. Right.
 
lol, I can never type slightly-misspelled words on the first try
just now I typed "nooodle" instead of "nooodl"
 
nooodl is Lynn.
 
2:40 AM
Makes sense
 
@ETHproductions the specialty for jolf is "usually ascii art"
 
So nooodl is also github.com/maurisvh ?
 
I think that's lynn?
 
She doesn't use that account anymore I believe. But yes
 
2:42 AM
And who is Zzo38 (who created FlogScript)?
 
No idea.
Just a person.
 
I guess I'll leave it at that then.
 
@Calvin'sHobbies ?
 
@ETHproductions Tripped me up during the PLQ. If not for the name change, I would have recognized GS2 immediately.
 
Holy smokes, I don't think I've used Blender in years. I've totally forgotten how to do anything.
 
2:46 AM
Alright, added FlogScript and GS2 as well as I could
There's probably some wrong or missing information in the list, so let me know if you can correct anything.
 
@quartata I'm semi-knowledgeable about Blender.
 
@El'endiaStarman How do I extrude a curve?
 
@ETHproductions f...fflogscript? Like spanking flogging?
 
it's Zzo38, not Zz038
 
CMC: implement one language in ETH's list in another separate language in ETH's list
 
2:48 AM
@quartata Should be in the curve settings panel.
 
@ConorO'Brien That's more than a MC :P
 
@ETHproductions Chat Mega Challenge
 
@ETHproductions Macro challenge, actually @noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC
 
@El'endiaStarman Ah, found it. My window size is small so the tooltip was abbreviated to Ext:
sneaky
I have no idea what this will look like in game.
Does anyone know what the conversion from Blender to Maya units is?
I suppose I can scale it in Hammer.
 
Also, is there any other information about each language you'd like to see in that list?
 
2:55 AM
@quartata I have no idea, actually.
 
Hammer is Maya units (1/16 of a foot) which is why I was asking
 
@ETHproductions what list?
 
Have I been saying Maya this whole time? I meant 3DSMax :P
Awkward
 
Oh cool.
I'm not sure if "macro based" is the best term for V though
 
2:58 AM
Yeah, wasn't sure about that... Do you have a better one?
 
@ETHproductions Might be worth adding Cinnamon Gum ;)
 
Not really, lol
Maybe just string-based?
 
I couldn't name what CG's paradigm is if you asked me so you're not alone...
 
Compression maybe?
 

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