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5:00 AM
Q: Print "foo" 100000 times, with certain limits

agcPrint "foo" 100000 times (on separate lines) using shell script and standard **nix* tools, with these constraints: No numbers (in any base) in any of the code. No more than two variable assignments. No loops. No functions or aliases. No sed, awk, or external scripting languages. No more than 12...

@Maltysen Examples?
Besides the implicit Q already seen
@DLosc just +2, fills it with Q, but my fills with d (and then Q, but that's different)
@Maltysen [after a trip to the docs] That would be map a doubling function over... what?
@DLosc Q
but that's not the important part
its that I didn't have to say myd
Oh, wait, I think I get it. I was still thinking of it as point free. :P
But m defines a lambda which is yd because d is the parameter of the lambda and y is an operator that doubles it.
5:05 AM
@DLosc yeah
but pyth really doesn't have functions or lambdas
So myd is map(lambda d: y(d), ...)
we call it lambdas, but its more analagous to list comprehensions
no higher order function operations actually happen
@Maltysen I'm not quite understanding what difference that makes. Is it just a distinction in how it's implemented, or does it affect what the code does as well?
@DLosc nah don't worry about it, was just talking more in general about pyth doesn't truly have any functional stuff but mimics it very closely
@Maltysen Okay. I was just trying to see how the terminology would apply to Pip, which has map and filter operators too but is about as functional as Python is.
5:09 AM
CMC: Print "foo" 100000 times with 0 numbers in your source code.
@DJMcMayhem or loops, and on separate lines :P
(chat has a character limit)
@DJMcMayhem "Numbers" meaning "digits 0-9"?
@Maltysen Naw, I'm trying to keep it simpler
@DLosc Yup
@DJMcMayhem jm"foo"C\𘚠
oh makes it easier
5:10 AM
@TheBitByte valid but boring
Pip, 10: Lm*mP"foo"
@DJMcMayhem That's an issue with the question too, not just my answer.
@DJMcMayhem *C\𘚠"foo
@TheBitByte ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
idrc, just thought it was kinda fun.
Q: Dumping the output as an answer

DJMcMayhemSometimes, on kolmogorov-complexity challenges with a constant output, we get extremely boring answers that make absolutely no effort to compress the output whatsoever, and instead just literally dump the exact output the challenge asked for. For example, if the challenge was: Print the follo...

But hey, it's just a CMC, doesn't matter too much
@TheBitByte well here, your answer isn't competitive
5:12 AM
I wonder if I can do it in vim...
@DJMcMayhem prolly
@TheBitByte Valid point, but also: brownie points are awarded for clever answers to even boring questions.
@DJMcMayhem can't you use P
Perhaps someone will be amused by my "point-free" C answer on anarchy.
@Maltysen Well, other than ifoofoofoofoo... etc.
5:13 AM
@DJMcMayhem ifoo<esc>YY10000P
That has numbers in it.
Also, 100000ifoo is shorter
@DJMcMayhem wait what?
how does that work?
Also, YY == yy ==Y
The second Y doesn't do anything
5:14 AM
@DJMcMayhem wait shift-y equals yy?
Yup. Which equals y_
id get vim
plz teach me sempai
@DJMcMayhem =^0 This is revolutionary!
oh so, putting numbers before things works even with i
Yeah. And a and o and uppercase.
5:15 AM
Next you'll be telling us D == dd?
no, D == d$
Ah well, good to know anyway. ^_^
@DJMcMayhem huh
do you have to do dd
would d_ work?
I have 876 rep!
Also, morning
A: Tips for golfing in vim

DJMcMayhemBe aware of the uppercase variants of common commands. This can trivially save one keystroke in a lot of contexts. For example: A = $a C = c$ D = d$ G = gg I = ^i S = cc X = dh Y = yy

5:17 AM
@DJMcMayhem Ninja'd my follow-up question.
Those are quite helpful--I'll have to remember some of those!
@Maltysen so D (or d$) will delete until the end of line, and dd (or d_) will delete the entire line, including the newline.
@DJMcMayhem oh _ is a motion
Yep! Although, the underscore is pretty obscure as far as vim features go. Most people would just say dd == whole line.
I just learned about the underscore semi-recently
so the uppercase variants are just the lowercase one with the most useful motion?
Yeah, pretty much. Although some people (cough doorknob) dislike the behavior of Y. Personally, I think dd is way more useful than d$ and cc is better than c$ but it's not worth relearning.
Q: Why is Y a synonym for yy instead of y$?

WildcardIs there a specific historical reason for this? Background — (you can skip this part if you already understand the question.) As intermediate/advanced vi users will know, y is the "yank" command—it yanks (copies) the text specified by the following movement command.* Thus ye yanks to the end...

5:24 AM
@DJMcMayhem Why has the emacs site graduated, but the vim site not? This is unfair!!
I'd also say, subjectively, that dd is about as easy for me to type as D, as it only involves one hand and one key vs both hands coordinating. So having dd for the useful one instead of D isn't much of a hardship IMO.
@TheBitByte Because emacs is better than vim
@βετѧΛєҫαγ Vim is the best.
@TheBitByte Cause the emacs site is healthier?
@DJMcMayhem Emacs users struggle to do things. Vim does it in seconds.
5:26 AM
@TheBitByte I like vim, but don't really care for flamewars.
There was actually a lot of drama with the vim site. SE shut it down a bunch of times, let emacs become a site, and then shut it down again. That made a lot of people... unhappy.
@DJMcMayhem I don't care what the SE staff prefers, I want neutrality.
Yeah, that's what most of the backers said too (which is totally right)
Yeah, I don't care if emacs is better than vim (hint: it's not, in my opinion), but I want neutral staff.
Eight megs and constantly swapping.
5:28 AM
You can see a synopsis of the drama here:
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Eight megs and emacs people kept wondering why it was slow.
Neutral? But they're completely different sites. That's almost like saying "we should graduate Portuguese SO because Russian SO is graduating" despite Portuguese SO only having, say, 1 Q per day
Emacs has more questions because it's harder to use
Haha! I figured it out! 100,000 "foo"s without a single number in the code!
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei I don't care for flamewars, but what SE staff is doing is unacceptable.
5:31 AM
@NathanMerrill On the machine you're running your git status tests on, is that an Intel CPU?
@DJMcMayhem how?
Warning: Extremely inefficient
@DJMcMayhem Kind of defeats the purpose of golfing it.
@DJMcMayhem wow
@mınxomaτ Does it matter? AMD CPUs objectively suck.
5:33 AM
@TheBitByte It's perfectly acceptable. I would love to see vi.se graduate, but right now they're getting about 4.4 questions per day. That's clearly not graduation ready, regardless of editor-preference.
@DJMcMayhem Joel uses Emacs, I think, but that's not a reason to not be neutral.
I'm one of the most active users on there, so I would love to see it graduate, but that's not going to happen soon.
Other than the initial drama, they are being neutral.
In what sense? By closing and reopening Vim.se multiple times? That's neutral to you? While Emacs.SE gets a cool new design?

See, I don't care if it's true Joel (SE's CEO) uses Emacs, I want neutral treatment.
And that isn't neutral treatment.
@Maltysen It enters 10 'p' characters, deletes it, and runs it as if you had typed it, which enters 10*10 'p's. Repeat, which enters 10000 'p's. Does a substitute that replaces the letter 'p' with "ap, which means "paste from 'a'" (which holds 10 'p's), deletes that and enters 'foo'. Then, it runs the 100,000 'p's.
@TheBitByte No, it's wasn't, but they're not being biased anymore.
Hi @Downgoat ! Can you outgolf me?
8 mins ago, by DJMcMayhem
@DJMcMayhem wait, can't you do a regex after having 10k p's?
5:40 AM
Oh, like :s/p/pppppppppp/g?
I'm not sure if that's shorter.
@DJMcMayhem yeah
is there a run last command thing?
dot (.), but it doesn't work for macros. ;_;
@DJMcMayhem what about :<up>?
Oh, that type of command. Yeah that works.
@DJMcMayhem I read the discussion on Area 51. Bias and then some more.
5:42 AM
Although @: is shorter
@TheBitByte Yeah, I'm agreeing with you.
i think that's shorter
What language are these in? @Maltysen @DJMcMayhem
@βετѧΛєҫαγ vim
@DJMcMayhem So then why hasn't vim graduated?
@TheBitByte Not enough questions per day as DJMcMayhem says
4.4 Q/D
@DJMcMayhem Emacs.SE is basically the same.
There's a reason we have objective targets for graduation
@βετѧΛєҫαγ vim.se met the target for having betas multiple times, and it was closed.
5:47 AM
@Maltysen Nice. Here's a fun trick :s//bar is the same as :s/<last search>/bar so you can remove the 'p'
Although I think you missed a colon
@DJMcMayhem oh yeah, and both <cr>'s
@DJMcMayhem whoa really?
@DJMcMayhem oh thats nice
This is why I love golfing in vim so much. You have to come up with weird solutions, and there's always some obscure feature you're overlooking. :D
@DJMcMayhem you've inspired me to try a few vim-golfs in the future :D
5:50 AM
@βετѧΛєҫαγ 14q/day is meh, really.
@TheBitBucket I'm not going to say any more on the matter
@Maltysen \o/
This is probably one of the weirder vim-golfs I've done.
@Maltysen Your solution is 41 keystrokes. I found a way to get it down to 40. :D
Is there a good vim tutorial anywhere?
It looks awesome to golf in
If you have it installed you can just do vimtutor
built-in tutorials ftw!
6:04 AM
Ooh, another 4 off! This is fun!
@βετѧΛєҫαγ Just remember to use vim, not vi.
Because Vi sucks.
That's Lynn's idea
I don't know how to Vi. I can't Vi.
6:07 AM
Whats the difference?
Where to start?
Basically everything
No, that's an exaggeration. Vi is just really old. Vim drastically improves stuff like the command line, undo-trees, a buttload of options and vimscript.
And plugins, and the gui, and more configuration, and new operators
@βετѧΛєҫαγ See, just know vim is better than vi. That's it.
Don't ask why.
6:10 AM
@βετѧΛєҫαγ If you do end up wanting to golf in vim, I've got a V room (that I just expanded to vim-golf also about 5 minutes ago)


Discussion about golfing in Vim/V. vim.org/download.php github...
Q: One-line ASCII Shooter

Kevin NeimanCreate this. Extra features such as exploding enemies are not required. Rules: Must be executable in a terminal (Any terminal, tools are allowed.) Must only output in ASCII. Errors must be hidden. The code with the fewest bytes wins.

I'd be happy to help you learn it, or answer any questions you have.
$ diff vi vim
< vi
> vim
> ninja'd by DJMcMayhem, 1 comment ago
6:16 AM
I thought I was being clever
I'm just gonna sit over here and drink my wine
Why was the foo challenge too broad? I could understand "Unclear what you're asking"
Then again, "too broad" rarely makes sense for a challenge site
@DJMcMayhem Link?
6:18 AM
Q: Print "foo" 100000 times, with certain constraints

agcPrint "foo" 100000 times (on separate lines) using shell script and standard **nix* tools, with these constraints: No numbers (in any base) in any of the code. No more than two variable assignments. No loops. No functions or aliases. No sed, awk, or external scripting languages. No more than 12...

> No numbers (in any base) in any of the code.
No more than two variable assignments.
No loops.
No functions or aliases.
No sed, awk, or external scripting languages.
No more than 120 bytes of code.
$ ls -l `which vi`
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Oct 27  2014 /usr/bin/vi -> /bin/vim
No difference after all...
Yeah, but most distros give you the neutered vim by default, not the real one.
@DJMcMayhem Yeah, I'd say unclear or possibly dupe before too broad for that one. We really need a close reason of "too narrow to be an actual challenge" :P
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Restrictions can make a challenge less broad, but certainly not broader.
6:21 AM
On Cygwin apparently it's just vi, no vim
But man vi | head gives:
@DJMcMayhem Huh? That may be true, but I don't think it explains the symlink.
$ man vi | head
VIM(1)                      General Commands Manual                     VIM(1)

       vim - Vi IMproved, a programmers text editor

       vim [options] [file ..]
       vim [options] -
       vim [options] -t tag
       vim [options] -q [errorfile]
So I don't have a vim executable, but I have a vi executable that is actually Vim. Makes sense.
For certain definitions of sense, anyway. :P
Vim allows you to run in compatible mode where it undoes all of the great changes of the last 30 years so you can pretend it's vi. So most distros link you to tiny vim and call it vi.
Since vi is posix-standard iirc
@Dennis Most distros give you a neutered vim, but vi is so obsolete that they just create a symlink to vim to keep compatibility with old programmers and programs.
6:23 AM
Why do I even bother? :P
@Mego You need to be more like this:
Ah, OK. I neither plan to use vi nor vim anyway...
hmmm, having trouble with command length again ._.
ln -s `which vi` /usr/bin/vim - now everything is right :)
6:26 AM
Fun fact: On Fedora, /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin.
And for good measure: alias emacs="shutdown 0"
That was beautiful
@Dennis Yep, Fedora does some silly things like that
I understand the choice. The distinction between /bin and /usr/bin is mostly meaningless.
6:27 AM
But since the FSHS was designed for a much simpler time with smaller disks and larger boot times, it's not so necessary anymore
@Dennis It's meaningless now, but it wasn't always
Yeah, that's what I meant.
For the curious, the meanings behind the 6 different *bin directories on UNIX/Linux: unix.stackexchange.com/a/8658/139306
My favorite alias, which I have on all of my computers and virtual servers:
alias nnao='nano'
6:30 AM
I wonder which command I misspell the most
I don't know why, but I seem to be incapable of spelling that word correctly.
alias fcuk='fuck'
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Mine is more interesting. :P
git config --global alias.gud 'git stash && git pull && git stash apply --index'
6:34 AM
While we're on the topic of funny Linux configurations, does anyone else have sudo insults on?
Ack, my alias was right the first time
@DJMcMayhem wow u use i3
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei fwiw I barely use Linux right now
But yes, I love i3
git config --global alias.gud '!git stash && git pull && git stash apply --index'
Finally got it right
6:38 AM
what has happened to some user's avatar ?
@GLASSIC Deep Dream
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei what's that?
Argh! How many times do I have to opt out before Twitter stops sending me emails?
@Dennis -1 times
6:41 AM
I'll just close the account. I don't have any followers anyway.
quickly follows Dennis
I'm guessing this is not you
I would have followed you, if I had a twitter
@Mego You guessed correctly. I don't have a personal account.
I have a Twitter, but I'm going to delete it also
6:48 AM
my avatar didn't change a lot after dreaming but anyway...
ok, I think I might merge my two stacks into a deque...
Ugh, this is annoying. Contenteditable divs solve a lot of problems I'm having with textareas, but auto-zoom on mobile is awful.
And there's no way to disable auto-capitalization. ._.
in stack exchange app?
No, in contenteditable divs.
6:57 AM
What problems are you having with textareas?
I am fairly sure my language will be tc, and easily provable as such
@Dennis does autocorrect="off" autocapitalize="none" work?
@DestructibleWatermelon programming language "tcl" (tool command language) or human language "tcl" (tropical coast language) ?
... turing complete
7:00 AM
do you even context
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei No, that works only for textareas and input fields.
@Mego Resizing them is a pain (especially on mobile), and you can't have certain characters in a textarea (CR, for example).
@Dennis Dingbats!
Kinda hacky, but it works (I'm doing that for GS2). It also means I cannot use the original dingbats.
7:06 AM
I've installed more features into Logicode now
Is anyone on?
ColdGolf said a intelligent thing
7:12 AM
2 hours ago, by TheBitByte
@βετѧΛєҫαγ Vim is the best.
TheBitByte is ColdGolf?
Apparently he was really annoying
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this is an incomplete program to print something
@DestructibleWatermelon In what lang again?
7:15 AM
(and then halt)
it's in typological
I think we should edit and reopen the question
I'm not sure whether to try and reduce the length of the commands, or just embrace the most verbose language ever
verbose languages are cool
it doesn't even print yet though
Wait BitByte is ColdGolf? I feel betrayed...
7:18 AM
all that is like, just the initiating
so far it doesn't even push the value to print properly
by the way, I have put on some other parts for readability, but I'm considering making them mandatory
WarGamer is 6th
also, it's going to be fun getting answers >100 times as long as jelly on simple questions
and this is first ._.
on less easy questions, expect at least 300 times as long
also, I'm not sure anyone actually has the guts to program in this language though
I'll get back to you when my asterisk printing program is done
I think I should post this under "languages to code in"
7:26 AM
jeez this is verbose
@DerpfacePython hmm?
wait, i made a mistake ;_;
anyway, super long programs ftw
@DestructibleWatermelon hmm???
what do you mean my languages t code in?
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what I have now
still doesn't print though
also, I'm thinking of removing b to a command, so that should shorten it
I'm asking what the language with the wall of |s is
Haven't decided on name
haven't decided on spec
when this program is done, I will finish the spec, and publish on github
ok, I do believe I've made a worse language than bf...
also good luck programming nested loops
except really I'm the only one whos going to use this junk...
@MitchSchwartz That's a nice idea. :) I was hoping this might work:
   H ; e ;
  P ; 2 Q /
 d ; l ; r /
l ; $ @ ; o ]
 ; o ; W ; 0
  1 P ; . .
   . . . .
7:36 AM
n*|'s + space + | is a command? @DestructibleWatermelon
But unfortunately there's no pair of character C and digit D such that CDD mod 256 gives !
(nor two digits X and Y such that dXYY works, nor d~YY)
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei nope
commands are direction of line of spaces and the number of spaces in that line
class Pige
    def initialize(code)
        @chars = code.chars
        @ip = 0
        @acc = 0

    def step
        c = @chars[@ip]
        @ip += 1
        @ip %= @chars.length

        case c
        when "#"
            @ip += 1
        when "$"
            if @acc == 0 then
                @ip += 1
        when "@"
            if @acc != 0 then
                @ip += 1
        when "."
        when " "
^ interpreter for a little esolang i just created
and that verboseness you've seen isn't the worst of it
well, loops are annoying, I think
I don't know though, I'm beginning to think they aren't relatively that bad
everything is in loop unless you move the pointer
in my language the only looping instructions (v and ^) move to the first character of the next and the precedent line
making loops annoying
7:40 AM
at least my language makes it easier for a loop that works until a test fails a set amount of times
but loops are going to be annoying to escape
you need to have multiplication, and checking if a value is zero, etc...
I do believe I am done!
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what is this shit
almost 400 bytes
prints an asterisk
this is overly long
7:43 AM
@TùxCräftîñg wow, thanks captain obvious
also, this lang makes it easy to iterate a set number of times
I mean relatively, anyway
miiiight be able to shorten though, but it would be hard
ok, I think that the spec is done now
except I'm not exactly happy with the swap command, which contributes the first part
also, how it works
I'm beginning to think I made a choice that made it more inefficient
I thought it would be better, but it wasn't
also, part of me wants to disallow comments in this language >:)
@DestructibleWatermelon plz dont
@DestructibleWatermelon yes plz
A: I'm not the language you're looking for!

Dennis23/Malbolge, 5688 bytes bCBA@?>=<;:987 6543210/.-,+*) ('&%$#"!~}|{zy ...

... wow
well, I don't think it's right to have the codegolfer suffer more than the guy recreationally programming
also, BF allows comments because they can only annotate the gist of what it's doing, and the tape and loops if not 0 can't be unobfuscated by comments
also, unlike some ascii art, pattern, 2d things like this, which just write the commands, which are then run (I mean, stuff like just saying when a loop starts and ends)
this actually "2ds" the commands
example of 2d things that just write the commands: puzzlang
christ this is convoluted
doesn't help that I have no sum command

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