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5:00 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev its where we put our challenges while we are trying to refine them
@DmitryKudriavtsev It's somewhat vague and fairly trivial (as you prove in ruby). But not horrible.
Actually, it's quite trivial.
Of a sentence!
@Zwei (from a guy who posts challenges frequently) It takes minutes or even hours to come up with a decent challenge, with the process of constant coming up with new ideas and then rejecting them.
Here.s my idea: Factorial of a sentence.
Take a string
take the ascii values, fuck.
the factorials will be huuuuuge
not for strings like " "
5:01 AM
Unfeasible in a language without bignum
@Zwei That will still be 32!.
Huuuuuge number.
Also, what's the 299 below my name nean?
@DmitryKudriavtsev total rep over the whole SE network
I just rethought my challenge. Instead of factorializing, I cound have triangle numbers
the only rep I have from SE is here ;-;
5:02 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev 10/10 very interesting and original and creative
Like 32Δ would be 32:31:30:29:28
@LeakyNun Serious or sarcasm?
@DmitryKudriavtsev sarcasm
@DmitryKudriavtsev You can edit messages, click the arrow on the left
My sarcasm detector is pretty broken and even I thought that was obvious
5:04 AM
Oh. Thanks @HelkaHomba
@Zwei he isn't a native English speaker
that explains it
@Zwei One of my friends' speech always sounds like sarcasm and it isn't most of the time.
@DmitryKudriavtsev You can also reply to them directly like this with the bent arrow on the far right
@LeakyNun Yes I am
5:05 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev interesting
@HelkaHomba OK
@DmitryKudriavtsev both your first name and your last name indicate otherwise
but I clicked on your profile and saw that you come from the States
I've seen that first name with a different spelling before, and the surname has less to do with nationality than the first name
@LeakyNun My parents are both from Russia but I was born in the United States and I'm bilingual, although my Russian language skills haven't been kept up lately as well as I would have liked them to be.
@DmitryKudriavtsev I see
5:07 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev Most all popular mathy number sequences - factorials, primes, triangulars, squares, etc - have probably been done and overdone on this site. It's best to try to be a tad more original :)
What about uninteresting numbers?
like 1-10? done, fairly recently, actually
@HelkaHomba 10/10 exactly my thoughts
It's a number concatenated to itself, multiplied by the original number
term originates from a recent PPCG challenge
5:08 AM
> have probably been done [...] on this site
Doodling around yourself or browsing OEIS you can probably find an interesting uncommon sequence, sure
It's been done ONCE, and that has been a golf to generate them
> best to try to be a tad more original
@HelkaHomba no, he means the uninteresting number sequence
@DmitryKudriavtsev right. What do you plan on doing with them?
What I'm suggesting is to input a string, do that operation on all the ASCII values, and sum them
maybe apply the operation to the result? probably not
5:09 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev 10/10 very original and creative
@xnor You know, I actually completely made up this challenge on my own, thinking about counting rectangles on a coordinate grid given an arbitrary number of points. I never thought in my wildest dreams it could be this trivial. Heck, I even counted the number of rectangles manually. How about, instead of the input being 2 integer, it is 1 integer representing the number of points on a plane with lines extending out all four sides of each point, resulting in many rectangles?
Good problems are problems that rely on being well-defined but open-ended
is it really that bad? I'm pretty new
multiple viable ways to approach it
5:10 AM
@R.Kap how are the points configured?
There's probably a trivial formula somewhere
@R.Kap can I tell you how many times I find out that my upcoming challenge is super trivial, and can be applied by some famous equation somewhere?
@DmitryKudriavtsev just be original
How about writing a Brainfuck derivative interpreter.. ehh too bland
seriously, when it comes to math, its tough to be original
@LeakyNun Ah. Right. We're pretty strict about duplicates here. Don't just slightly modify existing challenges @Dmi
5:11 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev 10/10 very original and haven't been done before
@LeakyNun Yeah, there is a formula given the dimensions. But there is not one given for an arbitrary number of points.
@R.Kap when your input is just one integer
you would probably need a way to configure the points
@NathanMerrill I shall prove you wrong within the next 2 hours! (or fall asleep and deny this message)
which brings about a formula
@HelkaHomba IKR? My challenge was NOT a duplicate: very different and easier, but it got removed. Here's a link codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/85088/…
5:11 AM
@HelkaHomba noted
Q: Print the ASCII printable character set

Dmitry KudriavtsevChallenge: Print the entire printable ASCII charset (not just a range!) in order. [space]!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ (Of course, replace space with the actual space character.) Rules: read closely No other characters allowed...

@HelkaHomba hey, I didn't say impossible!
Wait, what? Why did my rep increase?
I am actually mainly posting this because I am very pleasantly surprised that there is no challenge like this yet. I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I was given the job of counting triangles on a grid in my life so far.
@DmitryKudriavtsev do you know what duplicate means in this site?
5:12 AM
The question has been posted before...?
> do you know what duplicate means in this site?
@LeakyNun What do you mean "configure the points"?
I was replying to you
@R.Kap I mean, place the points
@DmitryKudriavtsev I was quoting my question to you because you haven't answered my question
This question has not been posted before. It's not even close, like you don't have to take input.
5:13 AM
@LeakyNun I don't need to, because no matter what the coordinates are, for the same number of points there is always the same number of rectangles, as long as the points are not collinear.
@DmitryKudriavtsev we mark things as duplicate if the "core" of the challenge (print the ascii) is the same as another challenge. As to the edge cases, and other formatting parts, we generally ignore them when considering for duplicates
Core of that chalenge is read input
@DmitryKudriavtsev The definition of duplicate in this site: if a challenge can be modified easily to suit the new challenge, then the new challenge is a duplicate.
i mean arguments
5:14 AM
so I persume that's why "count to 10" was marked as a duplicate of "count to n"?
@LeakyNun thanks
@DmitryKudriavtsev I don't see anything talking about reading in that challenge
@NathanMerrill the challenge it was marked as a duplicate of, had a part about reading arguments
So what do you think guys? Should I post it?
Does "the fruit of your lips" mean anything sensible in English?
5:15 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

R. KapHow Many Rectangles in the Grid? code-golf Consider this 3 x 3 grid of rectangles: How many rectangles are there? Well, counting visually, we can see that there are 36 rectangles, including the entire plane itself, which are all shown in the animated GIF below: The Task The counting of re...

@DmitryKudriavtsev right, but the core of both of your challenges is "print the ascii". He just added a small condition to only print out N of them
Post it on the main site?
OK, got it
As a native speaker from the U.S., it makes no sense to me
@NathanMerrill (cc @DmitryKudriavtsev) which means that the new challenge is a subset of the old challenge
@Zwei The phrase arises when I was trying to translate "le fruit de tes lèvres" from French to English
5:17 AM
@R.Kap Go for it. It's ready enough
@R.Kap yes, and then make a second challenge with unique rectangles :)
I have a small question about a different challenge. How do I keep a challenge from being overwhelmed by golfing languages? All the popular challenges have <10 char answers in a golfing language and I want to give other, more verbose languages a chance.
@HelkaHomba You don't think it's too trivial?
@DmitryKudriavtsev Make your challenge more interesting and not able to be answered by a single-byte built-in
5:17 AM
no, its an interesting concept. We don't close challenges based on triviality
@R.Kap 10/10 brilliant gif
@DmitryKudriavtsev question of the millenium
I like kolmogorov complexity challenges, we should see more of those.
@R.Kap would a triangular number function count as a built in?
@R.Kap Just be ready for a 4-byte answer from Jelly
5:18 AM
Speaking of which, here's a nice 99 Bottles of Beer program I wrote: scratch.mit.edu/projects/115797194
@LeakyNun I DID IT
I beat your challenge
@HelkaHomba Yes.
Simple: You don't. Golfing languages will almost always win, but elegant/genius solutions in more verbose languages (like the "draw iceland's flag" solution in python) will get more upvoted.
and outgolfed dennis
@orlp and you got no credit
5:19 AM
@HelkaHomba Any built in that directly computes any function that results in the challenge being trivial.
Like the goat challenge?
Mathematica FTW
@DmitryKudriavtsev I mean, if you come up with a challenge that accesses things that most golf languages can't access, then that's pretty much the only way. Like, there was an "open PPCG in a browser", and I don't think there were many golfing languages there
upgoat or downgoat you mean?
@R.Kap That's subjective. Multiplication could be called a builtin that makes it trivial
A: Determine the position of a non-negative number in the infinite spiral

orlpPython, 53 bytes lambda n:sum(1j**int((4*i+1)**.5-1)for i in range(n))

5:20 AM
@NathanMerrill OSX has an open builtin
@Zwei Yes
@DmitryKudriavtsev right, but that's not accessible to most golfing languages
@HelkaHomba Fine then. I guess that's not a built-in. Just don't use any directly solves the problem.
@Mego Belated congratulations on your wedding
I was wondering where you've been :D
A builtin that determined the goatiness of the image was used, but there was no "determine if this image of a goat is upside-down" builtin @DmitryKudriavtsev
@orlp 10/10 cool link to online interpreter
5:22 AM
@R.Kap disallowing a triangular number builtin is totally valid, you just need to specify that
but as it stands, you aren't specifying that
@R.Kap It's still subjective. If it were my challenge I'd remove the line about builtins altogether. But now I'm thinking the whole thing is a tad too trivial anyway (not bad, just a bit boring)
bah, I was working on my KoTH. You all are too distracting
also, even if triangle number builtins were banned, n(n+1)/2 = nth triangle number, which is a fairly easy way to solve for them
@xnor sorry :(
I was first
That moment when math makes a challenge you think is non-trivial trivial...
I still posting it. Let's see how it does.
5:24 AM
@NathanMerrill What part of "abandon all work, ye who enter here" did you misunderstand. We like our Procrastination message to be quite clear so we don't have to procrastinate on explaining it again later
@R.Kap I'll answer it with Jelly in 4 bytes
And just because that slogan isn't in the chat description anymore, doesn't mean it isn't implicit :)
@Sherlock9 I thought that I didn't have to abandon my work ever since that message was removed
@LeakyNun Go ahead. The challenge is not about finding the shortest answer, but finding the shortest answer in every language. :)
You collect your work when you exit the chat, but you have to leave it with the attendant when you enter :)
5:25 AM
Should I add that?
@orlp this is silly, I spent time trying to golf it and write an explanation, and I get ninja'ed
not blaming you, just frustrated at the situation
@R.Kap nice
Please help me.
"This challenge is not about finding the shortest answer, but finding the shortest answer in every language."
@xnor I independently discovered it
5:26 AM
@Sherlock9 hmmm, so I just need an attendant that'll work while I don't
I was not aware of your chat message
Challenge: Identify if this picture is of a watermelon"
@orlp i understand
Is that a good idea?
I removed my message about you being a copy
5:26 AM
@R.Kap this definitely seems like a problem that math would make trivial
@NathanMerrill Are you kidding? There's 30 people in here. The attendant would have to watch over and work all of those at once @_@
@xnor I was stuck for quite a while
@Sherlock9 nah, bribes
And I mean like at a supermarket where you can leave your bags at the front
Harhar :)
@orlp did you find (4*k+1)**.5-1 in some systematic way?
i kind-of hacked it, so i'd be curious if there's a good reason for it
5:27 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev I wouldn't vote to close it, but I feel like we've had quite a few "identify if an image has X"
@xnor I got it from OEIS
What about file access?
@orlp hah, should have thought of that
"Create and write to a file"
5:28 AM
In current directory, or /tmp
"Integer part of square root of 4n+1."
also a(n) = number of quarter squares <= n
It is posted.
@DmitryKudriavtsev trivial
Why the fuck is my /var/log almost 3GB?
Q: How Many Rectangles in the Grid?

R. KapConsider this 3 x 3 grid of rectangles: How many rectangles are there? Well, counting visually, we can see that there are 36 rectangles, including the entire plane itself, which are all shown in the animated GIF below: The Task The counting of rectangles as shown above is the task. In othe...

5:29 AM
@HelkaHomba has it been posted?
er...we have had challenges that write to files, but do we actually have a "write to a file" challenge?
Where is New Main Posts when you need him?...
Like, my first challenge was literally "add two numbers" but it wasn't a duplicate
@R.Kap patience :)
So I feel like I can post this one too
5:30 AM
@R.Kap he left and went home??
What do you guys think about ?
@DmitryKudriavtsev its good for specific challenges
@DmitryKudriavtsev You could. Not a bad idea in reality, just possibly controversial due to its apparent basicness
OK, all right.
Remember, my challenge "add two numbers" got 15 upvotes at least
I really can't believe we've never had a "write to a file" challenge
5:32 AM
cat is borderline similar
How did i accidentally edit my post :(
I'm making it right now, please dont beat me to it
@R.Kap What the hell is the first testcase?
woah, you're really tearing apart this challenge
@LeakyNun a [0,0] rect I guess
@HelkaHomba and how is it 1?
@DerpfacePython welcome
@LeakyNun An empty input.
5:33 AM
@LeakyNun Did you fix it?
@R.Kap why do we need to accept an empty input?
For which the output should be 1.
nevermind, found the cat one
@DerpfacePython I don't think so, too complicated
@LeakyNun for similar reasons 0! = 1
5:33 AM
The Duplicate thing?
> This challenge is not about finding the shortest answer, but finding the shortest answer in every language. Therefore, no answer will be accepted.
@HelkaHomba but the zeroth triangular number isn't 1
OK, that's fine.
Who here knows Ruby? I'm having a little trouble with Leaky Nun's challenge on spirals?
5:34 AM
Shoudn't we just have that for all challenges
@LeakyNun Because if there is nothing, there is just the plane.
@Sherlock9 I'll try to help you
I can't make a two-digit adder in Pyramid.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
@Sherlock9 I know Ruby!
5:34 AM
@R.Kap ridiculous
What do you need help with?
@LeakyNun If you want it gone, I will make it gone.
f=->t{(1...t).map{|n|[1i**n]*(n/2)}.reduce(:+)} the inner loop there .map{|n|[1i**n]*(n/2)} gives a list of lists instead of one list
Not sure how to fix it
wait. would an nxn square have t(n)*t(n) subrectangles where t(n) = nth triangle number?
@R.Kap it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity in the challenge due to the need to special-case that input.
5:35 AM
hey, so in challenges where people have used Retina to add numbers, do those numbers have limits on the number of digits?
@Zwei yes, and that applies to mxn also
If anyone can make a 2-digit adder in Pyramid, can you post it here? github.com/PyramidLang/Pyramid
@NathanMerrill I don't think so, but there's a limit in reality due to memory. The algorithm theoretically works to infinity
now I want to make a CJam answer now that I understand it
5:36 AM
Just make a PR or something.
@LeakyNun well, duh
@DerpfacePython You don't even have a loop
@DerpfacePython pr?
@Dennis maybe update your jelly answer using a complex base conversion?
it seems Pyth doesn't support it :(
@HelkaHomba Pull request
5:37 AM
@Sherlock9 Sorry, I can't really help with that, I'm not much of an array processing guy.
No problem
@Sherlock9 flat_map
Thanks. I will use that more often :D
Q: How Many Rectangles in the Grid?

R. KapConsider this 3 x 3 grid of rectangles: How many rectangles are there? Well, counting visually, we can see that there are 36 rectangles, including the entire plane itself, which are all shown in the animated GIF below: The Task The counting of rectangles as shown above is the task. In othe...

you know, I was thinking that the real reason we outlawed code-trolling questions is because they are all effectively duplicates of each other
5:40 AM
Who downvoted my challenge?
What is code trolling?
Anyways, I've updated my BeerLang gist.
@DmitryKudriavtsev You may not use command line tricks such as pipes or output redirection "Tricks"? What "tricks"? That doesn't make much sense.
@R.Kap don't worry. Trivial challenges always get downvotes (but usually end up with a net positive score)
@Doorknob Fixed
5:45 AM
is there a word for "text" that rhymes with graphics
@Doorknob I was looking at the code-trolling google docs form, and very few of the users are still around
@HelkaHomba Textaphics
6 of them?
@NathanMerrill It's over 2 years old
we've just had a large amount of turnover here
5:50 AM
Q: Create and write to a file

Dmitry KudriavtsevChallenge Create a new file and write the string Hello World to it. Restrictions Your challenge must write to a file on disk, in the file system. The file may not be a log file generated during normal operation of the interpreter. The file must contain only the string Hello World. No other co...

is just a block in CJam considered a valid submission?
@Zwei I think so
it's kinda like a function, I think
5:51 AM
@LeakyNun I forgot, pretty sure the braces aren't needed in CJam/Pyth/GolfScript or something
@MᴀʀsUʟᴛᴏʀ where?
because that way it acts as a program
@DmitryKudriavtsev wtf, you arbitrarily disallowed a construct in your challenge and you just self-answered using it
except that you
@Doorknob Have you read the rules?
Read them again
it was there since the challenge was created
5:53 AM
in the full program using the block, I take in 2 integers, push the block, and eval it
srsly, ppl. learn 2 read
do I need that full program or just the block
If anyone has the time, can you take a look at my VIC cipher sandbox post? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9714/47581
@Sherlock9 It's so long ;_;
It is ;_;
5:54 AM
riri{_~*\_~**4/}~ is the full program
@Sherlock9 But +1 it's a very complete explanation
Thank you :D
@DmitryKudriavtsev what's a shell script. Does my repl environment for python count?
@DmitryKudriavtsev you explicitly disallow "output redirection (>)"
@DmitryKudriavtsev It seems pretty cheap to change the rules to validate your own answer.
5:55 AM
@Zwei idk, i don't use Seriously, CJam, Pyth nor GolfScript
It's also just overall a kinda silly rule.
@Doorknob Shell scripts are explicitly listed as an exception
Took me about 3 hours to write it all. And that was with essentially copy-pasting from a reference on how to use the VIC cipher. It may have been because I constructed my own examples, who knows
I figure a block is close enough go a function
5:55 AM
@NathanMerrill @Doorknob @DrGreenEggsandIronMan The rule was there from the very beginning of the chalenge.
@MᴀʀsUʟᴛᴏʀ Then what does that rule even mean
I don't think that was the best way to state the rule
for example, this block pops 2 elements from the stack, runs some numbers, and then leaves a single value on the stack. It also has to be evalled with ~
@Doorknob @MᴀʀsUʟᴛᴏʀ That rule means that you can't just write "H" in HQ9+ and redirect it to a file.
5:57 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev I really recommend removing the exception. Either keep the restriction for all languages or for no languages. It's really tough to determine if a language is a "shell script"
It prevents cheap answers like that
Pretty sure a better way is No command-line flags/pipes (etc) allowed, or Everything should be in the file or something
By shell script, I mean Bash.
@MᴀʀsUʟᴛᴏʀ Thanks!
@DmitryKudriavtsev a.) HQ9+ isn't a programming language by our definition. b.) HQ9+ does not support file I/O
@DmitryKudriavtsev what about my windows cmd?
@NathanMerrill Yes
Batch scripts are allowed
So what isn't allowed?
@DmitryKudriavtsev what powershell? or my obscure terminal from 1990?
Ugh, the double standard
Although I think he means ./hq9+ "H" > foo
5:58 AM
Read the last line of the question
basically the command used should be program filetorun or ./filetorun (basically just no command-line stuff)
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan EXACTLY
@DmitryKudriavtsev too broad, sorry
OK, I edited it. please hit F5
@DmitryKudriavtsev That's not how I interpreted that rule
5:59 AM
@DmitryKudriavtsev thank you :)
@DmitryKudriavtsev That would still be invalid without those rules because HQ9+ is not a language.
also, doesn't HQ9+ add an exclamation point?

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