« first day (2148 days earlier)      last day (1070 days later) » 

1:49 AM
@Rachel More thoughts:
0
Q: Is this site about Software Engineering, or what?

Shog9I've been pondering these proposed changes to the site's name and scope for the past few weeks. This was, you'll recall, instigated by Ana's response to Rachel's proposal for a new name for this site.. Why are we changing anything again? The purpose of that name-change request was explicitly t...

4
(more or less what we talked about a couple weeks ago, but informed by folks' responses here and on meta)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:46 AM
^^^ any mods around to tag this ?
 
 
5 hours later…
9:10 AM
You can try asking this question on programmers.stackexchange.com instead of here. It's more geared towards what you're asking. — Jokab 36 secs ago
 
hi
anybody knows of rabbitmq?
on python..
i am trying to establish a connection, but its unable to create one
 
@Jokab I don't think such a question is welcome on programmers either. — Mark Rotteveel 12 secs ago
 
it says:
File "Test.py", line 4, in <module>
connection = pika.BlockingConnection(pika.ConnectionParameters(host='localhost'))
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.5/lib/python3.5/site-packages/pika/adapters/blocking_connection.py", line 339, in __init__
self._process_io_for_connection_setup()
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.5/lib/python3.5/site-packages/pika/adapters/blocking_connection.py", line 374, in _process_io_for_connection_setup
self._open_error_result.is_ready)
the code is only single line
import pika

if __name__ == '__main__':
    connection =pika.BlockingConnection(pika.ConnectionParameters(host='localhost'))
i am not sure what am i missing
 
10:05 AM
Kevin Montrose on July 21, 2016
Today - thanks to our amazing community beta testers - we're shipping our [biggest expansion to Stack Overflow][1] since it first launched: Documentation.
 
10:19 AM
0
Q: Getting “pika.exceptions.ConnectionClosed” error while using rabbitmq in python

Ronak AgrawalI am trying to use rabbitmq in python. My code is: import pika if __name__ == '__main__': connection = pika.BlockingConnection(pika.ConnectionParameters(host='localhost')) I am running this file using: python3 test.py Error Signature: Traceback (most recent call last): File "Test.py...

can someone please share inputs on above?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:49 AM
That is not really a question for Stack Overflow. Try one of the other Stack Exchange fora, like Programmers.s.e. — Rudy Velthuis 33 secs ago
 
 
2 hours later…
1:35 PM
@Shog9 I like what you did there to shorten the lists, looks good to me! :)
 
 
1 hour later…
2:41 PM
What is SE's obsession with 4 bullet points? :\
 
2:59 PM
I think Spolsky laid down the law on that one. And since he's the boss...
 
@RobertHarvey Stack Overflow has more than 4 bullet points.
You should...uh...get on that SO /help/on-topic page. It's too long.
Yeah. Get on that, SO mod dude.
 
That's because I wrote the Stack Overflow page. :)
 
Oh...uh...there are still too many bullet points.
 
Actually, there are only four.
 
There are 9 bullet points on that page. And 6 numbers, too. Unacceptable.
 
3:01 PM
a specific programming problem, or
a software algorithm, or
software tools commonly used by programmers; and is
a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development
 
@RobertHarvey Go down a little more...
There are 5 more bullets.
 
I don't know why we're arguing about the On-Topic page anyway. It's mod-editable; we can put whatever we want in there. And nobody reads that page anyway.
 
That last chunk is why I'd love a /help/other-resources or something page. A page dedicated to linking to relevant SE sites and third-party resources.
 
All I care about is the interstitial page.
2
And the site name.
 
@RobertHarvey I don't know either. SE has nothing to do with the /help/on-topic page. Just change the name and add an interstitial. We can handle the rest.
 
3:20 PM
@ThomasOwens They're targeting the TOUR page.
 
@RobertHarvey Why aren't they saying that?
 
Because we're supposed to read their minds, I guess.
 
We have 7 things on the tour page now.
That is...excessive.
 
Drop Licensing.
 
We also have 8 don't ask things.
 
3:24 PM
That brings it down to six.
@ThomasOwens Well, those bullets are mod-editable, so.
 
@RobertHarvey Which brings me back to my point: why does it matter?
If we want 6 things there, we'll just put 6 things there anyway.
 
It doesn't. We should just be asking for the name change.
Did you notice that the banner is mod editable as well?
 
Yeah. I edited it.
Like, a while ago.
 
Psh. Rachel was right all along.
 
3:39 PM
dem's fighting words!
 
Description: Software Engineering Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for practitioners, researchers and students of software engineering to ask questions directly related to the Systems Engineering Life Cycle, but not code troubleshooting.Robert Harvey 4 mins ago
 
 
1 hour later…
5:02 PM
17
Q: Follow-Up: New Site Name and Scope Proposals

Shog9I've been pondering these proposed changes to the site's name and scope for the past few weeks. This was, you'll recall, instigated by Ana's response to Rachel's proposal for a new name for this site.. Why are we changing anything again? The purpose of that name-change request was explicitly t...

 
5:20 PM
@Ana: Then here they are: * Software, * Development, * Life, * Cycle. I'm still a bit mystified why it has to be four. It's not like the software can't handle the load (we have seven there right now). For those who don't understand what that term means, they can read this and look at this picture. — Robert Harvey 5 mins ago
 
@RobertHarvey What is the big deal with 4, anyway?
If /tour is their problem, then don't have any bullet points there.
 
Like I said before, I think Joel said in a board meeting (just before it adjourned) "Make sure you hold them to four bullets, and no more."
@ThomasOwens There is a specific section in Tour for those bullets.
 
And it's mod editable.
And there are more than 4 there now.
 
So pick four. I'll add the other two later.
Clearly, the system can support a lot more than 4 bullet points.
I should scour the network and find a site with 5.
 
Ana
5:24 PM
heya
 
Well, hello there.
 
Hi, @Ana. Sorry if I'm coming off as stubborn, but we're not understanding what you're looking for or why our significantly reduced scope definitions aren't good enough.
There are two pages I'm looking at: /tour and /help/on-topic. Both of these are mod editable and we've done (as far as I can tell) a great job of reducing complexity and confusion on these pages. Our /help/on-topic is going to be much, much shorter now. Our /tour is also going to be a tad shorter.
 
We're planning on buying balloons and noisemakers for the new launch.
We don't drink scotch in here. That's just a rumor (who put that tag there?)
 
Planning? I..uh...let me put these away.
 
@ThomasOwens Gnat's "Homework cheaters" post came up again. I sort of dismissed it, but he does have a point: we need a quick deletion policy for certain categories of questions.
 
5:31 PM
@RobertHarvey I usually do delete those ones pretty quickly after closure. Did I miss one?
 
The one he cited, apparently. :)
Or at least an insta-close policy. Oded comes in here from time to time and spears a question or two. His closures are always dead on.
 
I've had a few fast closes today.
 
It's the ones that we never see that are the best ones.
 
I'm torn on fast deletes, though. They are harder for people who actually want to learn to learn from.
Some are obvious.
The ones that aren't obvious dump and runs...
I do wish the threshold for viewing on the homepage was higher. I think negatively scored questions should immediately drop away.
0 and higher only.
 
@ThomasOwens Can we un-feature one of those posts so that the new one winds up on the banner?
Maybe unfeature the close vote one.
 
5:36 PM
Wait for caching to clear.
 
OK.
Oh, it's on the "Hot list" anyway.
 
I unfeatured both.
o_O There's no delete queue?
I thought there was a delete queue.
 
A questions delete queue?
 
A delete anything queue.
There's no queue for things with delete votes cast on them.
 
Ana
5:39 PM
Apologies, things are a little hectic around these parts today. :)
@ThomasOwens No sweat. I really, deeply respect how much you care about this.
You have done an excellent job of reducing complexity. I'm pushing so hard for four or fewer bullets in order to increase the chances that people will actually read it.
 
Do any of these help pages support pictures?
 
Ana
Like I alluded to in comments, having a shorter list of more focused bullets frontloads something important; it throws terminology that one will or won't understand directly into a new user's face. It's taking the burden of clarity upon ourselves so that when someone still gets it wrong (because someone always will), it's easier to tell them how they're getting in wrong.
Easier to communicate and take action, which is fewer headaches and less gnashing of teeth for you.
 
So basically we need something that's in between "here are the ten things you can ask about" and "SDLC minus troubleshooting?"
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey Perfect. Our work is done here.
 
I would have been happier if you'd said "SDLC minus troubleshooting" will work fine, and here's a picture.
Basically you're saying "Let's scrap a well-known, well-understood taxonomy, and substitute four arbitrary (and incomplete) subject matter bullets."
3
 
Ana
5:46 PM
@RobertHarvey Right...which means a short enough list that someone will glance at it and have at least a fighting chance of thinking to themselves "This looks straightforward enough, if I dedicate a moment to consuming this little cluster of text, I bet I'll know what they're getting at."
 
Do we really need approval of the Tour Page content to get the name change?
The subject matter description is "Questions directly related to the Systems Engineering Life Cycle, but not code troubleshooting." That's something that everyone can agree on, and it's all the new person really needs to know.
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey "...in order to help whichever rando shows up from elsewhere on the 'net to filter themself out for whether or not they engaging in the kinda thinking we want from them." Yeah.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you just said.
This isn't some sort of in-club. All we really want is a little clarity on the scope, and some guidance to new users to help them avoid some of the land mines.
That they keep tripping over.
 
Ana
I was attempting to confirm, that yes, we are straying away from a well-known, well-understood taxonomy in an effort to get more of the behavior we want from people.
 
Then just describe clearly and succinctly some of the things they shouldn't do.
If they avoid those subject areas and behaviors, we can usually accomodate their question.
 
5:52 PM
@Ana We're trying to not stray away from a well-known and well-understood taxonomy.
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey You're raising a number of different questions to sort out at once, and I want to be sure we're not talking past each other.
 
If you wanted me to give you a full, unabridged definition of our site's scope, I would need about 10 bullet points.
 
I quite honestly don't see what purpose is served by making the scope more vague.
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens I mean, I say 'straying from it' only in the sense that we're putting a only subset of it on the on-topic page.
 
@Ana We're covering 95% of it. That 5% that we're not? That's Stack Overflow.
 
Ana
5:54 PM
@RobertHarvey See, that's the funny thing. As I see it, I'm trying to help you make it more specific.
In what respect am I or Shog suggesting making it more vague?
 
@Ana Is it clear in the Tour Page that the bullets are representative examples only, and not meant to describe the site scope?
 
Our scope is that, minus this little subset of software construction that is writing and debugging code.
Because Stack Overflow does a much better job at it than we do.
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey Clear to who?
 
To the audience that the Tour page is supposed to target. I assume that is brand new users, for the most part.
 
Ana
5:57 PM
@ThomasOwens And I think everyone in this room right now understands that.
 
@Ana Readers. Let's say I'm a software methods guy and I see a site called Software Engineering. I visit the homepage and I don't see any methods questions. I hit up /tour and I don't see anything about processes and methods. I think "Oh, this isn't a site for me." That's the wrong impression.
To a professor or academic in software engineering, we managed to come up with 6 bullet points that fully encompass the 15 or so bullet points on that Wikipedia page.
 
Well, like I said before, I'm really holding out for only two things:
1. "We don't answer code troubleshooting questions" in a place where it's the first thing a new user is likely to see, and
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey We'd like for that to be clear. We attempt to frame it that way via the actions and visual cues. It's a huge toss up, though. Try as we might, we can't make users get the actual idea we intend, we can only try our best to make it clear.
 
2. The name change.
Everything else is a distant second, AFAIC, because I don't think anyone reads it.
 
@Ana Letting us put 6 bullet points on /tour accomplishes that.
 
6:00 PM
So it doesn't really matter to me what bullets you put there.
 
I think it's a huge accomplishment for all of us, who are all very highly opinionated, to have gotten our scope down to 6 that we can all live with.
 
Ana
Okay, hold up a second.
Are we currently debating which/how many bullets go on the tour vs. on-topic?
 
Not me.
 
As I understand it, that's what the problem is.
 
I don't think anyone ever sees those.
 
6:02 PM
We have too many bullet points.
If that's not the problem, what is the problem?
 
The Tour Page has some text at the very top that has our mission statement in it. It needs to include the words "but not code troubleshooting."
That's the only thing that I think new users are likely to read.
That, and the site name.
 
@RobertHarvey I agree with that. That's also the first paragraph of the /help/on-topic page.
 
New users never see any pages in the Help Center.
They just don't.
 
> Software Engineering Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people participating in, researching, and learning about the Software Development Lifecycle who care about delivering and maintaining software responsibly. We don't address code writing or debugging questions here.
Something like that needs to be the very first paragraph of /tour and /help/on-topic.
Ideally "software development lifecycle" would link to the appropriate Wikipedia article, too.
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey What about if/when they get linked to on-topic when they make mistakes on the site?
 
6:08 PM
@Ana Sometimes they read it then.
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens Sounds pretty sane.
 
@Ana Then, further down on the /tour page, and on the /help/on-topic page, there are a list of things that you can ask about. We want 6 things there. I don't think many people will read them, but we managed to get our scope defined in 6 bullet points. Let's put them all in both places so people can see what we're about, for those who do happen to read before typing in the box.
Honestly, I think a name change will help with 85% of the problems. The lists of things on topic about 5%. That's a 90% reduction in problems and low quality posts. If you guys can give us an interstitial, that should take care of at least 5% more.
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens I don't think having 6 there is a good idea. Any more than 4 is probably shooting oneself in the foot.
 
@Ana I looked at a few other sites.
 
@Ana We already have that capability now. The goal is to catch some people before they ask their off-topic question. Removing clearly off-topic questions is onerous; it requires five close voters and three delete voters over a period of several hours to days.
 
6:11 PM
Some are kind of wordy, like Open Source. Computer Science also has 5.
Server Fault has 8 things in their off-topic list.
To me, 4 is some arbitrary number. 6 is more than 4, but it's more succinct than 15.
Arqade also has 5.
 
Ana
Again, the reason for four is because we're pushing to maximize readability, which increases likelihood of readability.
None of those other sites have Programmers history.
 
I just don't know how to get our scope down to 4 bullet points.
I don't want to turn someone off that happens to read.
We could make it 1 on tour.
And have 6 on /help/on-topic, I suppose.
 
Do we need "Documentation" for our site? :D
 
@AaronHall I want it.
I can write about CMMI and Scrum and stuff.
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens Can you think of a question already on the site that you imagine someone might not ask if one of those top two bullets were removed?
 
6:18 PM
@Ana Yes.
Most of the CMMI, ISO, and Lean questions. When you hit the homepage, you rarely see questions about requirements or process/methods.
 
Ana
Any examples come to mind, or that you can link to? I'm trying understand your concerns better.
 
Sure. One sec.
11
Q: How should standards and process improvements be introduced to an organization without them?

rjziiI've been tasked with improving the software development process through the implementation of process improvements, of which we will most likely be using CMMI for Development, Version 1.3 as a guideline and adopting the best practices in whole or in part. What is the best way to introduce standa...

 
Can't we just put those 10 things on 5 bullet points - two items each, then everyone would be happy!
 
5
Q: What kind of metrics, if any, can be collected from requirements development?

David KaczynskiWe elicit requirements from our product stakeholders by creating and refining user stories in monthly sprint planning meetings. This includes defining use cases, acceptance criteria, and identifying constraints, and the final result is a sprint backlog of user stories. The high-level customer r...

There are two examples. When you hit the homepage, you don't see many metrics, process, or requirements questions. I want to be clear that these are welcome.
 
What are the semantics of cc in a shell?
 
Ana
6:27 PM
@ThomasOwens Those are a few examples of those kinds of questions (metrics, requirements, methodologies) which are on those topics and look to me like they're written in a way which is a good fit for this site's intended direction.
 
@Ana Yes, they are.
The problem is, good questions like that don't appear on the homepage often. So it's hard to highlight that this is a good, on-topic question that we like in our community.
So we'd like to highlight requirement questions and methodology question in /tour and /help/on-topic. But you're asking for 4 bullet points and those are the two that went away.
 
Ana
It really jumps out at me that of all the ~40K questions on this site, only 121 have the [standards] tag, and 60 have the [metrics] tag.
If they're such a small footprint on the site as is, why squander new users limited attention on those? (Nevermind that more words === less reading as a general principle.)
 
@Ana Yeah. Most of our questions are architecture, design, and algorithm questions.
 
Perhaps they're a small footprint because nobody realizes they are on topic.
 
^^That.
 
Ana
6:33 PM
Primarily this is about playing to your strengths, and us trying to help you do that.
 
Our name of "Programmers" didn't help that.
Because most of the people who deal in process/methods and requirements aren't programmers.
 
That, and there's an almost unlimited appetite for "how do I fix my broken whatever" questions.
 
Ana
@RobertHarvey but you can't seem to get anyone to fall in line with what's on topic here historically as is. Now you're saying that the problem is that folks comply too closely and cautiously with what's on topic?
 
@Ana I don't understand where that came from.
 
Yeah, me neither.
The problem is the same as it ever was. Professionals who would otherwise ask their questions here are turned off by the bad questions that flood the site, and leave.
That's the fundamental principle on which Stack Overflow was created.
So any changes to the site have to address the fundamental problem, which is "how can we educate users better about the kinds of questions that are acceptable here, in a way that they are likely to see?"
 
6:38 PM
I think the name change will help the most. It should help to eliminate two types of problems. The first is the low quality asker who sees the name and dumps their programming question here because "this site is for programmers". The second is the professional who isn't a programmer and doesn't see their type of question on the homepage so they leave. The first person will (hopefully) not dump their garbage. The second will hopefully see the name and stick around.
 
Ana
I'm with you there.
 
"We don't do code troubleshooting here" would help immensely. But it has to be in a place where the new user is likely to see it. I'd be quite happy if it were on the "Ask a Question" page for everyone below the protected questions threshold.
 
@RobertHarvey That would be nice.
 
I wonder what it would be like to hang out with you guys without the electronic abstraction layer...
 
See, there's lots of ways to skin this cat. n number of bullets in a place where a new user is not likely to see that "hey, this is important" is very likely not the most optimal way.
 
Ana
6:42 PM
@RobertHarvey As of a slightly earlier point in this conversation, I said that placing "We don't do code troubleshooting here." more prominently is something we're open to.
 
At this point, I think that the name change and hopefully an interstitial will fix the first problem of people dumping garbage on our site because "it's a site for programmers". However, I'm on to the second point of trying to help experts understand our full scope and having that very clearly somewhere that can be presented.
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens I'm sorry, the interstitial isn't in the cards. We gotta make use of the tools we already have at our disposal and again the struggle is to get people to read things. We're not down to throw more stuff at them to read in the form of a whole new page.
 
@Ana That's disappointing. But I think we can manage.
 
Don't make perfection the enemy of the good.
 
And that, as they say, is that.
 
6:53 PM
So, @Ana, I'd really like to see us move forward as soon as possible with a name change (and deploying the updates to /tour and /help/on-topic). What, exactly, do we need to finish up? I think we've worked hard as a community and we'd like to see some changes that help us better identify who we are and what we do.
2
 
@ThomasOwens I'm getting 1-2 flag declines a month on posts that look like homework / interview dump to me: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
 
@gnat Why are you flagging them? There's nothing in any of those posts that warrants immediate moderator attention.
 
5
Q: If I was a homework cheater,

gnat...if I was a homework cheater, I would applaud an approach like that... I'm for deletion if not improved in a reasonable timeframe. But minutes after closure is, I think, too speedy. I tend to give a few hours, a day tops, or recent activity on the site with no edits made... ...because...

^^^ quick deletion, nothing else
 
That's your opinion. I see no community consensus to back it up.
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens To be clear, we're talking about:
1) a site name change to Software Engineering
2) the the on-topic list contained in Shog's proposal with the addition of "We don't do code troubleshooting here" more prominently featured at the top.
3) a tour which reflects both #1 and #2
 
7:04 PM
@Ana Absolutely, yes. I don't think anyone disagrees.
 
Ana
Yes?
 
With 2 and 3, I disagree. It's not comprehensive enough.
 
No reason to postpone the name change.
 
But I don't understand why the name change (which is what SE staff must do) requires 2 and 3.
 
@Ana can you get that done by EOD?
 
7:08 PM
I am not comfortable that dev processes and methodologies are out of the short list. I certainly can live with that, I simply won't vote close and will vote reopen these topics. But still I would be happier having them stated explicitly. And no I ain't going to go to PM.SE for stuff like that, I am developer not a manager
 
Ana
@ThomasOwens Well, we've been saying this has to be kept at four bullet points from Day 1, because we've got to move a lot of mountains to do this, and if we're going to do so, we want to be giving you all the best shot at this site being a place you can be happy about, and we really believe this is the best way to do it.
Not sure what else you're potentially saying is not comprehensive enough.
 
@Ana But...we're happy with 6.
 
How to spot the contractor in any office: They’re the ones with a relaxed smile on their face.
 
I guess I don't understand why the number of bullets is such a big deal on a page that really doesn't matter that much.
 
@Ana Why are the number of bullet points in the Tour tied to the name change anyway? Those are mod-editable, so I assume the community has at least some input on what that page is supposed to look like. The name change is the only thing we can't do ourselves.
@AaronHall He's apparently never been a contractor.
 
Ana
7:15 PM
We're now discussing and debating a problematic number of fine grained details, and I'm a little worried it's not helping.
 
A problem that doesn't have to be solved right now.
 
Ana
Honest question, can you possibly envision a version of this site's future that you can be proud of?
 
@Ana I agree. I don't understand why SE cares about a detail this fine grained, anyway.
@Ana Yes.
 
@Ana why can't SE just cooperate with us?
 
The first, and biggest step, toward that, is a name that reflect who we are and what we do. I believe everyone here (even those of us that don't agree on things) thinks that Software Engineering is a name that captures the essence of our site and community.
 
Ana
7:18 PM
Because it's not about the fine grained detail, it's about us seeing y'all attempt to repeat a number of the mistakes that have been made in the past, and if we're going to put in the non-trivial amount of social and technical work to make this change, we want it to help you get out of old, stuck patterns.
 
You mean the one where we tried to make NPR the dumping ground for questions that SO didn't want? That one was a doozy.
And it's not one we're likely to repeat.
 
@Ana What mistakes are we repeating? We're still trying to fix mistakes made years ago.
 
@Ana The only work that is required of SE is the name change and the artwork, and that is something that everyone on Programmers universally agrees upon.
Well, maybe not the artwork. But we're not going to quibble about that.
 
@Ana If we're making mistakes, please, do tell us. But you're trying to convince us that we shouldn't have 6 bullet points in our tour yet not giving us a good reason why we shouldn't. Please, begin the process of changing the name (and artwork, if you want/need to).
We want to learn from mistakes, but most of us here are engineers. Please show us the evidence that what we're doing is making a mistake. Because we can't see it.
 
Yeah, the number of bullet points is an inconsequential factor at this point. I'm willing to fold on the Tour bullets.
 
Ana
7:22 PM
I'm talking about the experience y'all know too well of receiving a flood of low quality, unwanted questions, and trying to address that problem by throwing more text, more jargon at those users, and being miserable, discouraged, and frustrated when it doesn't work.
This is why me and the other CMs have pushed for succinctness in the process.
 
That's because SE won't tell people what they need to know to use these sites properly.
 
Ana
Can you unpack that for me?
 
Absolutely. Hold on while I go get it...
> We don't answer survey questions, make lists of things, or engage in extended discussion here. We don't predict the future, find things on the Internet, provide customer support, or make product recommendations of any kind here. We don't know what project you should do next, what class you should take next, or what job you should apply for. We don't give legal advice.
BOOM
 
Is that...something I said?
It sounds like something I said.
 
Ana
What am I looking at and what do you intend for me to understand?
 
7:25 PM
If they read and heed just that, I'm willing to entertain almost any other question on the site that has something even remotely to do with the process of developing software, so long as it's not a "fix my broken code" question.
 
Ana
Like I said, throwing more text at the problem.
They don't read that. It's too many words.
 
That's as succinct as I was able to make it without losing information.
And like I said before, I'd be willing to accept merely "don't bring your broken code questions here."
 
Ana
And until we stop relying on blocks of text to attempt to change user behavior, and start exploring new things, we're gonna have the same problems.
 
The bullets won't fix that, no matter how many or few there are in the Tour.
 
Ana
On SO, here, and everywhere else on Stack Exchange.
 
7:27 PM
@Ana We're not relying on blocks of text.
We're relying on the name.
 
What might fix that is
Yes, the name.
 
Everything else is supplemental to that. We've been asking for a name change for several years now.
 
And...
"Questions directly related to the SDLC are welcome here."
That's it.
That's our scope.
 
If you want less verbosity in the tour, I can do it in 1 bullet point for about.
However, let us have our 6 bullet points in /help/on-topic.
2
Do you want me to go edit the /tour page right now to demonstrate?
 
Ana
I think it's time for us all to take a breather from this conversation.
 
7:29 PM
Suits me. I need to get some work done anyway.
 
We just want to move forward. What do we need to do to move forward with a name change? Give us something to think about.
 
Ana
I'm a little disappointed, because I really hoped Shog's post earlier might help us get past the details, and give us the chance instead to get on the same page about what we're really doing here, why we care so damn much, what it is we're doing this for.
 
@Ana Like I said, I think I have an idea that will keep everyone happy.
 
Ana
Seems we're still talking past each other on that and until we get there, we will continue to debate tiny details while fundamentally talking past each other.
I'm happy to speak more tomorrow. I'm going to go see how the rest of my team is doing in the wake of SO Docs.
Later.
 
Sure. Tomorrow is Friday. It's slow after lunch.
 
7:43 PM
I think they're wrong in assuming someone reading four bullet points can't read 2 more. Even if some can't, some will.
regardless, don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. editing a page of text is simple. Changing the name requires a bit of organizational effort.
 
FWIW, I updated the CW proposal to account for the tour page. Edits or comments welcome: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/a/8065/4
 
8:24 PM
Starred that.
 
8:35 PM
This world needs more base 62.
 
8:48 PM
help needed .. why in keil i am getting error for the function .. error is unknown type CAN_msg
//===================================================
typedef struct {
unsigned int id; /* 29 bit identifier */
unsigned char data[8]; /* Data field */
unsigned char len; /* Length of data field in bytes */
unsigned char format; /* 0 - STANDARD, 1- EXTENDED IDENTIFIER */
unsigned char type; /* 0 - DATA FRAME, 1 - REMOTE FRAME */
} CAN_msg;
//====================================================


/*****************************************************************************************/
at this line ..Write_msg_on_cntlr(int var ,CAN_msg *msg) IT is pointing unknown type name CAN_msg
IT is pointing unknown type name CAN_msg ?????????
can u help me plz @AaronHall @ThomasOwens
 
9:05 PM
@user143252 This is very unprofessional.
 
@RobertHarvey ,sir i am not pro .. only beginner student ... i find this place helpful so i post my ques here... i know my doubt is always silly ....
but i cant understand so i post
 
I can't even read what you're posting. Are you on a cell phone, or something?
 
using tablet .. now onward i will make sure to post ques properly ...
 
Anyway, this isn't the "troubleshoot my code" room. Try asking on Stack Overflow, but make an effort to write complete sentences, would you please?
And find a real computer. You can't compile that on a tablet unless you've discovered the hardest possible way to code.
 
yes.. i will write my sentences more clearly .. sorry for posting mess
i saved code in my email as draft ,there i copied here......
 
9:12 PM
I suggest you save your questions for when you're in front of your actual computer. You can't even verify people's answers if you're not in front of the actual machine you're programming on.
 
To be fair, I have a working C compiler on my Android tablet (and emacs, and a Python interpreter too!). :D
 
Yes, but it would appear that you can be coherent with said Android tablet.
 
Request I wrote code Development of CAN library , could you please view and give me suggestion if possible
 
What is your native language, if you don't mind me asking?
 
Hindi
 
9:20 PM
I see.
Well, Hindi, it might be worth your time to read some of the Help Center articles on Stack Overflow and Programmers. There's such a thing as a good question, and "[link] suggestions" does not qualify. The Help Center articles will show you what we expect from questions.
 
10:04 PM
@Shog9: I have nothing against Anna, but... Why did you guys bring someone into the conversation that appears to not know anything about the site's history, and who hasn't reviewed all of the relevant conversations that have taken place?
 
@RobertHarvey Only with a bluetooth keyboard, otherwise I'm hamstrung.
 
10:26 PM
@RobertHarvey that's pretty harsh.
It's often helpful to have the perspective of someone without years of past battles
Especially in this case, when the entire project is motivated by a desire to avoid misconceptions on the part of folks who aren't steeped in the lore
I don't have a lot of spare bandwidth today, but I'll try & drop in for a bit longer tomorrow maybe.
until then, I'd like to be clear: we're both trying hard to help here. The argument that a name-change would be beneficial in reducing strain on the core community here and angst among new folks is a compelling one... We just want that to actually happen.
No half measures.
 
Do the things that everyone can agree on. The things that we can't fix ourselves.
We can't fix the artwork, or change the name. But everything else is mod-editable; if the verbiage is clearly not working, changing it doesn't require an act of Congress.
 

« first day (2148 days earlier)      last day (1070 days later) »