1:43 AM
@DavidCarlisle Did you win?
Googled "duck cart", wasn't disappointed. :)

2:05 AM
@PauloCereda Still having a hard time thinking any of this is funny. (Sorry).

3:01 AM
We officially have a Rickroll question! And it's on topic. I promise. You know you want to click.

4 hours later…
7:02 AM
Off-topic, I think:
0

My corresponding author sent our article to nano letters but i havent recieved any confirmation emails yet. Is it normal or thats due to a probable problem during submission?

7:13 AM
I have problems with the plants on my balcony. I know it's off-topic here but think there might be others with the same issue... See the point? — Uwe Ziegenhagen 1 min ago

7:25 AM
@Johannes_B Ah, the I want this and that but actually not what I said but something different - guy ;-)

3 hours later…
10:43 AM
@AlanMunn Sorry, I had no intention of being offensive or disrespectful. :(

10:56 AM
@JosephWright: could you please remove the tweet I referred a couple of messages ago?

@PauloCereda Done
@PauloCereda As a UK national I'm happy enough with such things: gallows humour is the only way forward!
It's certainly making for an interesting Sunday following the politics

@JosephWright I am quite shocked how Brazil is ignoring the whole situation with UK and EU. I've not seen any reports on national TV, not even a single mention. I saw a couple of highlights when watching CNN, but I don't like it. Thankfully @cfr gave me some links to UK online newspapers.

@JosephWright Trying to take into account how many of them are saying “we didn't really want to leave”?

@egreg That's one of the tricky things, but the net result is clear (and this talk of staying in the EEA is simply not on)
@PauloCereda I guess for Brazil there's no immediate impact, and 'wait and see' is the best plan
@PauloCereda Odd though that it did not make the news at all

@JosephWright Possibly, but in fact there's a huge political/institutional crisis going on: the Federal Police is arresting high cast politicians involved in corruption schemes, which is basically everybody out there.

11:05 AM
@JosephWright One of those small nations the other side of the ocean

@PauloCereda Ah
@egreg Yes, sure

@JosephWright When you have some spare time, take a look at the car wash operation. :)

11:35 AM
@JosephWright Has there been much discussion about the not-so-large winning margin for the exit-side? I mean, there was about 72% turnout, and the result was 52-48. There was certainly massive support for exit, but it's not that big a difference, and leaving is a huge step. (Also referring to petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215)

@DavidCarlisle tex.stackexchange.com/questions/316507/… yes it's not so interesting but it seems that one can do it, what do you think?

@touhami depends a bit if you want the includeonly features of preserving counts, if that isn't needed, I'd just stick \iffalse \fi around the omitted text. if you want the \include features, it's possble but using \include is simpler, so why bother?

12:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle why bother? well, could be the answer i was looking for.

12:16 PM
@DavidCarlisle bye :-)

12:32 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle I am not a very political person, sorry. I thought Brexit was about leaving the EU and now i am reading some shocking twitter and facebook things where people tell "stangers" to leave britain? what the fuck is going on there?
Properly scared right now.

12:56 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution be that all who voted against Brexit move out and to the continent? On the other hand, all non-european continental inhabitants would move to the island to be finally non-europe. Would remove quite some tension.

@PauloCereda Well, Brazil has multiple crises of its own to deal with right now and while Brexit will presumably have some impact on Brazil at some point, it really isn't clear what or to what degree, I guess. But it does seem odd it doesn't get mentioned at all. I would have thought it would at least get a mention in business news, for example, just to explain the cause of changes in the stock markets, currencies etc.
@Johannes_B Yes. It is is shocking. It is not surprising. But it is shocking. And it is going to get worse.

1:11 PM
@cfr I had no idea the world has gone that insane.

@Johannes_B Figure out that Wales is in the quarter-finals! In football!

@egreg :-)

@TorbjørnT. Well, you have to take people's votes at face value. That's pretty basic. However, it is notable that, if this were a trade union vote for a strike, the (proposed?) rules would not consider the vote sufficient to authorise it. (I say 'proposed' because I can't remember if they've actually instituted this rule or not. But that would require 40% of the membership to vote to strike.)
@Johannes_B It is to be hoped that all they do is shout abuse, awful though that is. But I would not count on it.
@Johannes_B This seems rather unfair on Scotland.

@cfr They can come here, the continent has some nice parts.

Though I suppose the Scottish government could relocate along with the majority of their population.
@Johannes_B It is the governance issue, more. The parliament will have to go with them. Also, this wouldn't address the issue of the other island which is even more problematic.

1:25 PM
@cfr Can we ask google to develop a HUGE 3D printer to build a new island in the north sea?
With houses, infrastructure, roads, schools and everything? Could be useful.

1:38 PM
@Johannes_B We should ask @DavidCarlisle to do the buildings for best results.

1:48 PM
@cfr I was thinking of visiting an university in the UK in the future, I hope I could make it.

2:40 PM
@PauloCereda Avoid one in the Oxfordshire, you might meet somebody driving like mad on the wrong side of the road.

3:16 PM
@PauloCereda I know. And I wasn't offended. And maybe @JosephWright is right that gallows humour is the only solution now.

3:37 PM
@egreg -- but that's true (driving on the other side of the road) everywhere in those islands. (also bermuda. and japan. never mind the drivers who insist on going the wrong way on the one way street in front of my office. it always pays to look both ways.)
@AlanMunn -- maybe something good can come of it ... maybe it will make folks think twice when they go to the polls here in november to elect the next president. you, at least, have a canadian passport to fall back on.

4:12 PM
@TorbjørnT. Not really: remeber for a start this technically non-binding, and that as we use first-past-the-post our MP numbers don't follow vote share anyway
@Johannes_B A lot of the focus has been on immigration, particularly from UKIP but also increasingly from the main leave group toward the end of the campaign. Concern about jobs, house prices, etc. has been strongly linked to immigration, and that then leads to the idea that a leave vote means that EU nationals will 'go home'.
@Johannes_B At the present, there has been no suggestion from anyone campaigning to leave that anyone will have to leave: it looks likely that EU nationals already in the UK will get indefinite leave to remain

@JosephWright Good to hear that nobody forces foreigners out. That would be insane.

@Johannes_B Until a deal with the EU is actually done, the nature of the rules in the future is not certain

@JosephWright Either this or many companies will leave.

@JosephWright Ah, too much for my head.

@egreg Possibly: for skilled jobs one assumes EU nationals would get work permits anyway

4:38 PM
@Johannes_B: Look at the code ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Looks familiar :-)

@Johannes_B Unfortunately ...

@ChristianHupfer Why?

@Johannes_B: www.latextemplates.rubbish.org quirk

@ChristianHupfer You agreed to have that added.

4:46 PM
@Johannes_B Yes, unfortunately.

@ChristianHupfer It is a quite popular template. Only god knows why.

1 hour later…
5:58 PM
@AlanMunn <3

2 hours later…
7:51 PM
@DavidCarlisle: you solved a question about Portuguese, you really are an expert in languages. :)

@PauloCereda ヨーロッパの言語が今必要とされていないように私は私の日本語を練習する必要がありますが、

@DavidCarlisle wow

8:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle როგორც ენაზე ევროპა არ იყო საჭირო და ახლა მე უნდა პრაქტიკაში ჩემი ქართული

8:53 PM
What are good books for learning LaTex?
Since morning, I have been trying to create math notes, but I am stuck everywhere.

For starters. :)

@MathWanderer I think the most up-to-date book available right now is Marc van Dongen's LaTeX and Friends (Springer) amazon.com/LaTeX-Friends-X-media-publishing-Marc-Dongen/dp/….

@AlanMunn your Georgian isn't bad (for a Linguist:-)

@DavidCarlisle atchoo

@PauloCereda Só assim você não se sentir excluído.

9:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle You missed a verb somewhere in the sentence. :)

@MathWanderer But Nicola's online book that Paulo linked to is very good too (and free). Also for math, specifically George Grätzer's More Math Into LaTeX amazon.com/More-Math-Into-LaTeX-4th/dp/0387322892. And hidden gem, there's a free (older but still good) version included in the TeXShop Help menu!

@PauloCereda That's advanced Portuguese Grammar: impled verb (the verb was also implied in the English original:-)

@DavidCarlisle I think we should keep Google translating the same sentence from one language to another and see how badly mangled the end result is.

@AlanMunn: do you know how a Brazilian surfer stops the mess in a beach? :)

@PauloCereda ready to groan

9:09 PM
@AlanMunn ô, ó o auê aí, ô!
Czechs will be jealous. ^^ @yo' :)

@PauloCereda Cunning plan of the English: now that they're essentially as big as they were at Elizabeth I times, they'll start conquering an empire again and Brazil is the first step. They'll attack you from the Falkland/Malvinas.

@egreg Oh no! Should we team up with the Argentine? :)

@PauloCereda Not sure I get it...

@PauloCereda First they'll organize a football match between Brazil and Argentina in Río, so they'll have plenty of room for attack.

@AlanMunn Really? :) You need to visit me. :)
@egreg oh no!

9:13 PM
@PauloCereda If I paste that sentence in google translate, it detects Māori

@egreg Oh my! :)

@AlanMunn Thank you very much for recommendation!
I needed that LaTex book geared toward mathematics.

@egreg :)
@MathWanderer Yes, then check out the version that is in the Help menu of TeXShop. Also, you can access all of the MacTeX documentation from within TeXShop by choosing "Get Help for Package" in the Help menu. From there you can try mathmode which pulls up a really good overview by Herb Voss how how to typeset lots of math.
@MathWanderer Actually looking more carefully, only part of the Grätzer book is included in TeXShop. So I would recommend buying a copy.

@AlanMunn Thanks! I will buy the latest edition of Gratzer book from Amazon

@PauloCereda You'd better be quick else there probably won't be a UK at all.

9:22 PM
@cfr Oh. :(
@cfr: Is there any way to revert the situation?

@JosephWright @Johannes_B Although this is likely to get complicated in various ways. There are also issues in terms of the anger people have whipped up. Some on the leave side don't really want to stop free movement of people anyway, but they played the immigration card. They told desperate people that it was the fault of 'uncontrolled borders' and that this was the fault of the EU. It is the usual scapegoat move. If they don't now act against the scapegoats, people will get mad. ...

@cfr Certainly: it's all complex and works badly as 'soundbites' (as @DavidCarlisle observed when the debate at Wembley was on)

If they do, people will also get mad because they are only scapegoats, so even if we throw all immigrants out, the problems will still remain. Plus lots of the 'immigrants' are (1) not immigrants at all or (2) immigrants but not EU nationals.

@cfr Indeed, and quite worrying

@JosephWright Yes. And the fact that people are going up to people in streets and supermarkets and telling them 'we voted leave, get packing!' is not only horrible but very confused. Especially confused when the victims are e.g. South Asian or Tunisian or British or British Asian or fifth generation Polish or ... (I don't mean it is not equally bad if they are Romanian and arrived last week, but it doesn't reflect the same level of confusion.)

9:34 PM
@cfr Yes, this is really horrible.

@cfr True

@cfr @JosephWright I assume we're all seeing some of the same social media stuff, but have you seen this? indy100.independent.co.uk/article/… Wishful thinking only?

Poor immigrants in UK...

@AlanMunn Seen this, complete rubbish in my opinion

People are telling the proper immigrants to leave?

9:36 PM
@AlanMunn Boris downbeat as his strategy was to loose referendum by a narrow margin, claim moral victory and use that the go for PM role without the issue of leaving EU
@MathWanderer Isolated reports of this, yes

@JosephWright Right, but does he have now the guts to go through with leave? Surely the longer the truth sets in without Article 50 being invoked, the more regrets some of the leave side will have.

@AlanMunn I'm thinking of writing to my (rabidly) pro-Leave MP to say that I expect us to leave 'properly', even though I voted for Remain, as that's what the outcome of the referendum is
@AlanMunn I am worried that a long wait puts us into the 'how long does this mandate last' territory
@AlanMunn The problem with this is that a lot of people voted leave out of distaste for the way politics tends to work: trying to 'game' the people by avoiding leaving the EU is not exactly going to help

@JosephWright So you're against these 'petitions' then... :) metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/…
@JosephWright True, but maybe the argument of changing the EU from within would help calm them. (Although that possibility is slim to none, I suppose)

@JosephWright that's true but if it were possible I wouldn't object. I doubt it's possible though.

@AlanMunn We are not going to get the changes that would be needed: just a free trade area with no central regulations

9:43 PM
@JosephWright But of course being on the outside won't really free you from the regulations anyway.

@DavidCarlisle Now, I would object: we've had a vote, the question was perfectly clear, the result is also clear, the government should get on with it

I can't see any possibility of starting article 50 procedures before we have a functioning government (and opposition) at Westminster, and that doesn't look like it will be any time soon.

@AlanMunn Depends on your point of view :-)
@DavidCarlisle Tricky one, I agree: I can see this both ways

@PauloCereda It depends what you mean. The forces which have been unleashed are unleashed. If you mean, is it possible that the UK not leave the EU? Yes, it is possible. The vote is not binding. But whatever happens now, there is no going back. Those who voted to leave voted for change and many voted because desperate. If we don't leave, that tells people clearly that no peaceful protest will be heeded. So what is left?

@cfr Oh my!

9:53 PM
@MathWanderer Apparently, yes. Individual incidents. It isn't clear whether there is an increase in the number of instances of racism. That is, it is getting reported because what's said is invoking the vote, but it might just be that people who would otherwise shot some other racist thing are using the vote because they can.

@cfr /sob

Hi.

@JosephWright But we have a representative democracy. An MP who sincerely believes that leaving will be substantially worse for the UK than remaining ought not endorse a motion to trigger Article 50 if s/he sincerely believes that the negative effects are great enough to justify ignoring the referendum result. There must be some degree of damage which would justify opposing a motion to implement a referendum result. The question for any MP has to be where that cut-off is and whether it applies here.

I have an old text document that I am converting with Pandoc. It turns out the document contains Unicode Character 'NEXT LINE (NEL)' (U+0085).
...and the conversion fails...
Actually, I think I forgot to try to use XeLaTeX.

@wilx Yes, that should help.
@wilx I assume you're converting to LaTeX?

9:59 PM
@AlanMunn Yes.

@wilx I recently had some errors with unicode conversion with Pandoc which I solved with making sure I had the most recent version installed (of pandoc).

I tried to insert \catcode"85=5 into the Pandoc template but it did not compile with just pdfLaTeX. But it works now with XeLaTeX.

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle @AlanMunn And any MP deciding whether to approve exit must surely consider the fact that the Leave campaign have no essentially taken back all of the promises they made during the campaign. Since Friday, we have been told that the 350 million figure was a mistake, that the money will not necessarily go to the NHS anyway, that there will not necessarily be fewer people coming into the UK, and that Article 50 need not be triggered immediately or necessarily at all.
& That's just want Leave is saying ...

@wilx For a pdflatex/inputenc solution see the second part of this answer
@cfr But isn't it the point that MPs won't get to decide anything? It's all in the PM's hands (whoever that is).

@cfr there's just no good outcome starting from where we are.

10:09 PM
@PauloCereda In case you're (trying to) follow along: MP = member of parliament; PM = Prime Minister. :)

@AlanMunn oh thanks, I am really lost.

@DavidCarlisle Yeah, that seems abundantly clear.

@AlanMunn no I think leaving the EU would require changes in UK law that would require parliamentary vote, but I may be wrong, it's hard to keep up with details...
@PauloCereda so is everyone in the UK

@DavidCarlisle Yes.

@cfr I wonder if @JosephWright can exercise mod powers and delete history.

10:12 PM
@DavidCarlisle UK: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland = Wales + Scotland + England + Northern Ireland
@AlanMunn @DavidCarlisle They are saying that they expect Cameron to officially trigger exit at Tuesday's summit. Apparently, it does not even need to be in writing. However, it does need to be intended and clear. If so, then I guess parliament need not approve. Nonetheless, Cameron has said he won't do it. If MPs passede a motion to the effect that the will of the house was not to trigger it, would a PM really do so?

@DavidCarlisle But isn't the vast majority of the parliament in favour of remain? So if it went to a vote there surely it would fail. That's why I think it's in the PM's hands. Something to do with the Crown Perogative.
@cfr Now there's a scenario. Direct vs. representative (such as it is) democracy in a head-to-head battle...

It seems to me quite tricky to say it is up to the PM. The PM does not have the powers of a presidential head of state. It all seems rather unclear. If the PM can trigger it with a referendum then the PM could do so without one or despite a vote for remain.

@AlanMunn not clear now, they may have been for remain before the referendum but now as seen above everyone has to re-evaluiate

Hmm, I actually lost some lines in the result if I do \catcode"85=5.

@wilx Yes, that's not surprising. The newunicodecharacter route is likely better if you don't want to use XeLaTeX.

10:19 PM
@wilx you almost certainly don't want it to be catcode 5, 10 more likley

@DavidCarlisle Perhaps.

@AlanMunn actually what you want is a tex implementation for an EBCDIC IBM mainframe that would trigger its end-of-line behaviour on character 85/NEL

@DavidCarlisle An awful lot would have to switch to get a leave. But the point is that they might still be convinced remain is best, but also convinced they should vote leave in parliament. That is perfectly consistent. The will of the people is, at the very least, a serious factor to consider.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@cfr yes that's what I meant above, MPs may vote to leave now if they think they should follow the public vote (or if they have a three line whip telling them to vote)
@wilx what does your source look like, how come it's got NEL in it anyway?

10:24 PM
@DavidCarlisle If people voted according to the results in their constituencies, what would the result be?

@cfr depressing, I'd guess.

@DavidCarlisle Probably, yes.

@DavidCarlisle It is just old text. It appears to be ISO-8859-1 encoded.

@wilx but how is NEL used, it is an odd character just in Uniocde as part of the original ASCII/EBCDIC merger denoting an d EBCDIC new line but not actually treated as a newline (in the way characters 10 and 13 are) by most software
@wilx you could make it catcode 10 so it acts like a space but you can't really make it act like end of line with the behaviour that two consecutive ones are a paragraph, it would be much more reliable just to change them all to character 10 using a replace in an editor or sed or perl or whatever you want.

@DavidCarlisle I see.

10:33 PM
@DavidCarlisle @cfr @JosephWright This is an interesting (though sobering) read. It's from March of 2015, but talks about all of the constitutional issues now facing the UK with a leave vote in place.

@wilx the problem is tex's end of line behaviour is only partially controlled by catcodes, the input stream is split into "lines" before catcode tokenisation and white space is stripped from the ends of the lines. the filesystem line markers are system dependant and not visible from the tex macro layer, so there used to be texs for record-based filesystems that had no end of line character at all, and for NEL separated streams and all sorts of things, but current systems use 10 and 13

@DavidCarlisle OK.

@wilx but anyway it's less depressing discussing end of line behaviour than UK politics, so thanks for the diversion:-)

@DavidCarlisle Haha.

@DavidCarlisle Of course unfortunately both seem to involve the end of the line...
3

10:40 PM
@AlanMunn lol

@AlanMunn I'm not encouraged by the fact that the abstract suggests the author cannot count to 4.

@cfr :) Why am I not surprised that you noticed that.

I am going with \newunicodechar{^^^^0085}{\\} for now. That seems to match the text the best.
Magic! \o/

@AlanMunn Because I can count to 4, having a degree in maths?

@cfr No, because you are, shall we say, very detail oriented. :) You value precision I think.

10:54 PM
@AlanMunn Which is a nicer-sounding way of saying I'm a pedant ;).

@AlanMunn For larger values of 4. :)

@cfr No, actually, I wouldn't agree with that. But you do value precision, which I think is actually different from being a pedant.
@cfr Luckily I caught the autocorrected 'n'. :)

@MathWanderer including the scientific team who constructed a Quantum Hilbert Hotel in Glasgow that consist mostly of immigrants :)

@cfr I guess it depends on how pedantic your definition of 'pedantic' is.

25 DEC = 31 OCT
Just to break the linguistic loophole. :)

11:06 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle @cfr Anyway, if any of you wanted to move to Europe, I could offer you reasonable housing for some time :)

@AlanMunn ?? Not pedantic enough, perhaps.

@cfr Autocorrect had changed 'pedant' to 'pendant'. But thankfully I noticed before you did. :)
@yo' Hey, what about me?

@AlanMunn A linguist using autocorrect?! o.O

11:21 PM
@PauloCereda Well it depends on the application, but it's sometimes handy but you have to pay attention. It's awful if you're writing in a mixture of languages (as I often do) however.

@AlanMunn :) I have this problem with typing in my smartphone, then I migrated to SwiftKey.

@PauloCereda Android?

@AlanMunn Yes, and iOS.

@PauloCereda What does it do? (I know I can google, but I'll let you be salesman) :)

@AlanMunn I can switch between three different languages at the same sentence, basically. :)

11:24 PM
@PauloCereda Oh, so it just does localization/keyboard switching.

@AlanMunn and it has a dictionary for each language you set in your triad. :)
There's also an autocorrect mode, but I leave it disable.

@PauloCereda I see. I may try it.

@AlanMunn I really enjoy it.

I hate trying to type Welsh on my phone. Sadly, I don't have a smart phone.

@cfr So it voted to leave?

11:27 PM
@cfr My smartphone is actually dumber than me, which is quite disturbing for a duck. :)

Hi

@BBM Hello!

@AlanMunn Interesting article though. I noticed the number of countries increased by page 3. Perhaps the abstract was written a bit too soon - before the creation of the UK?

@cfr I think the '3' in the abstract refers to Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales ("the three smaller constituent nations") in contrast to England. Or were you objecting to some other counting problem?

@AlanMunn Hmm... I was going to say that I didn't say it was stupid enough to believe Boris. However, I don't think the people who voted to leave are stupid. I'm not even sure that voting leave was not the best choice they had.

11:33 PM
Is there any pure mathematician?

@AlanMunn I took 'smaller constituent nations' to mean smaller than the combination of the nations. But maybe you are right. Probably didn't pay enough attention to the details ;).

@cfr No, I agree, and I've been very careful not to jump onto the "everyone who voted leave is a racist idiot" bandwagon that I've seen among some of my UK friends.

@BBM In general? There are such people, yes.

@cfr Syntax. It gets you every time. :)

@cfr I know there are people talking about Politics :).

11:35 PM
@cfr :D I rest my case...

@BBM On the rocks, usually. :)

@cfr I meant here chatting with us.

@BBM All of our resident mathematicians are probably trapped inside monads at the moment. :)

@BBM Oh. I'm not sure. How experienced a pure mathematician do you need?

@BBM Presently no. We have a computer scientist, a linguist and a philosopher/logician though.

11:38 PM
@AlanMunn what a good mix.

@AlanMunn This sounds like a great start for a joke... :)

@PauloCereda We have to walk into a bar first.

@AlanMunn ooh terribly sorry. :)

@PauloCereda Isn't that a metaphysical impossibility?

@cfr I... I have no idea! /starts quacking in despair
:)

11:40 PM
@AlanMunn I'm half a rusty pure mathematician by training, though.

@cfr can you have a look at my question?

@BBM Is it a TeX question or a math question? On the site here?

0

Should obvious properties based on definition be written as a lemma or should they be included in the definition? Thank you

It is about the structure

@PauloCereda Don't worry. You're not one of the people trying to figure out how to escape from something which it is metaphysically impossible for anything to be contained it.

@cfr :)

11:43 PM
@BBM Unfortunately this is more of a style question than a TeX question, and I suspect it will likely be closed as off topic. Asking here in chat would be fine, but unless @cfr has an answer, there's nobody else here at the moment who might be able to. @barbarabeeton would be a good person to answer though (not here at the moment).

@BBM Sorry. I would have no idea. You don't have to figure out how to organise stuff at BA level. However, I think it is off-topic anyway and belongs on Maths SE.

@cfr what is BA level?

@BBM As a philosopher/logician, I would say that if they are not part of the definition, they cannot be included in the definition on pain of contradiction. So if 'based on' means 'derived from via obvious inferences' then they need to be distinct from the definition.
@BBM Bachelor of Arts - undergraduate, as @AlanMunn said.

@cfr Oh... my...

11:47 PM
@PauloCereda Don't mess with logic.

@PauloCereda ??

@cfr why isn't important for undergraduate students to organize their writing?

@cfr It's so very elaborated and very complicated for a humble duck. :)

@AlanMunn The question, of course, is which logic. If your logic can abide contradictions, then it might be OK.

@cfr :D

11:50 PM
@BBM It is just that I didn't write any mathematics. So what went in a definition or a lemma or whatever was whatever other people had organised into the definition or the lemma. I didn't have to decide whether this went in a lemma or something else, because I wasn't inventing new stuff.

@AlanMunn In order to understand logics, you need to know logics first.

@cfr I know what mathematical logic is. can you tell what logic is as in your specialty?

@PauloCereda Object language and metalanguage. (Not to be confused with deathmetallanguage)

@BBM It isn't really different from mathematical logic. Philosophers use the same logical systems. At least, certainly some of the same ones. I don't know if mathematicians ever talk about things like deontic logic, but I'd guess maybe not. But, still, that's really an interpretation of a formal system which is just a formal system of equal mathematical and philosophical interest.

@AlanMunn This is deliciously Godelian.
@cfr I have a friend who is into paraconsistent logic... I was scared. :)

11:59 PM
@cfr is there a BA for it?