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9:00 PM
But seeing as how Monte Cook had a hand in PF, and is apparently back on WOTC payroll, I don't think that will happen.
I was completely out ofthe loop when PF came about
what did happen?
geeksdreamgirl.com/2012/01/09/… ... oh I would love to somehow make this site policy.
@BrianBallsunStanton amen
Aw, but that would mean I couldn't go through every question and comment "4e is teh suck" on each one.
@Aether Vote to nuke from orbit.
I mean, it's bad enough with the different roles going after simulation or gamist questions...
But with edition wars on top of that? :)
9:05 PM
Actually I had some real snark responses to a question I did some time ago about how to gracefully leave a game. moderator flags did the trick.
"You're playing your game wrong, because nobody enjoys playing that way."
@MadMAxJr yeah. And happily one of the people who I wanted to vote to ban left the site.
@Aether oh, clearly :)
Q: How do we deal with questions that are currently unanswerable, but will have answers in the future?

AetherI asked a question about D&D 5th Ed, but since it has only just been announced, details are scarce, and so it doesn't seem to have a definitive answer at the moment. However, more information should be released in the next few months such as to make it an answerable question. How should we d...

As an aside, someone just posted this to one of my sci-fi questions: youtube.com/watch?v=3ZW_dwd_WJY&feature=youtu.be
maybe NSFW
"I know this question is about 4E but I really thing the OP should discontinue his game and use the one and only true RPG, Risus" flag for moderator
There's a lot of bad content if you look for it. :D
9:08 PM
@MadMAxJr most of the 3.5 stuff, for starters :)
... I can't believe I just typed that.
Opinion on the system or do we really have a large amount of bad 3.5 content?
snark, mainly. I'm looking for excuses to not work
It's a Monday, none of my customers are responding to their tickets..
@MadMAxJr my boss broke our dev server...
Huh, this blog answers the big four questions so far. trollishdelver.blogspot.com/2012/01/…
9:10 PM
Well $edition is better than $otherEdition because $adHominemARgument
I am offended! $strawman $strawman $strawman $trolling
@MadMAxJr I'll be honest those seem to be the only real details that are out there...
Did we just summarize the internet?
@MadMAxJr $subtleProvication to get you banned
@MadMAxJr pretty darn much
9:11 PM
yeah, basically
Interesting “We hope to create a system that allows players to use much of their existing content, regardless of the edition."
@BrianBallsunStanton $OceanMarketting I know people! You can't ban me!
@Pureferret this sounds incredibly strange to me. (does this mean sub in your own combat sys?)
@waxeagle it means that they hope to make a 3.5 + 4e = 7.5
@waxeagle I don't know, I think it means "Dust off your AD&D books..."
9:13 PM
@Pureferret as secondary markets go wild..
AD&D 7.5E
@Pureferret As long as you buy the updated 5th ed version and/or a supplement that makes it compatible? :P
I don't want to start a D&D session where a RIFTS Glitterboy, a BESM highschooler, and a GURPS Myth Setting warrior can play together! D:
(Oh, yeah - edit)
9:13 PM
don't forget a streetsam
WOTC, please adopt Microsoft pricing mechanisms, where I can pay a cheaper price with proof of owning the previous edition....
And even cheaper options for students....
No wait this is a horrible idea.
Open the cover of 5e. "Please do not break this paper seal until you agree to the following agreement."
"Please understand you do not own this book, merely a license to use it's content for personal use."
Here's a question "Will any of 5E be open source?"
They're never going to do anything like the OGL ever again, I'm almost positive of that.
There was such a flood of poor quality 3rd party content it's not even funny.
Books by the company 'Fast Forward Games' was the worst of this bunch. I think they're still in the budget bin of my old store, and those were written for 3.0.
They didn't even move when priced 2 for 1.
And Mongoose Press putting out Quintessential X Class books every ten minutes.
Quintessential Monk 3? Really?
How many variants do we need?
9:21 PM
@mods any thoughts on future answerable questions?
I'm kinda stumped on that one.
The question appears valid, but there are so few sources for legitimate answers.
Answer: return NULL
@waxeagle meh
Then let it lie for now
i say it's not constructive
to awaken with unspeakable horrors at a later date
9:23 PM
@Pureferret I have one written just need the meta decision to post or not..
Hi @DForck42
because it's not answerable now, and it'll only be relevent for a short time
@Pureferret sup?
@DForck42 won't people be asking '"How does playtesting work for new games?"
if they do it should bring that up
"What will happen with DDI subscriptions and online content for 4e?" is relevant long term because it deals with ongoing 4e support post 5e launch...but it may not have a certain answer for 6 months...
@Pureferret but... that'll differ for each company for each game
9:25 PM
And that question will sink in six months, with no exposure.
@waxeagle see, i'm ok with that one
Ok perhaps they ask in 5 years time "How did WoTC handle..."
@DForck42 its posted...I figure it will be a useful question...eventually
sooo much blogspam about 5e
@Pureferret its sort of a game design question...
9:25 PM
everyone's just bloody guessing!
ZOMBIE @BrianBallsunStanton
@BrianBallsunStanton biggest RPG news in x years...
yeah, I know.
@waxeagle we have got a tag for that
9:26 PM
btw @waxeagle i'd like your input on this
Q: Which cleric powers are usable without a Holy Symbol?

DForck42Yesterday I had the privilege of losing my Holy Symbol to a story point. (We all lost everything but our clothes.) How can I determine what powers, if any, I can use without my Holy Symbol?

A: How do we deal with questions that are currently unanswerable, but will have answers in the future?

AetherI've now looked through some meta discussions from Gaming.SE and SciFi.SE about future releases, release dates and rumours. The general consensus is that they are generally not very useful. Some of the arguments don't entirely apply here, but I think the best point came from Jeff Atwood: Cons...

@DForck42 you got the correct answer
implements/weapons are optional in 4e
unless otherwise specified
@waxeagle ok
thanks, i accepted the answer there
(ie rogue powers with light blade specified, or to deal sneak attack they have to use xyz weapons)
"Will 5e Finally change the core classes to Monkey, Pirate, Ninja, and Robot?"
9:29 PM
I like that one
Monkey, Pirate, Ninja, Robot ... and Elf!
Monkey Pirate Ninja Robot was actually an indie RPG.
@MadMAxJr pretty sure you will be able to just drop that in to 5e...shouldn't be any issue
because modular.
Looking foward to using Dread for all conflict rez in 5e....
I just had a horrible thought, what is the Roles will become classes
What is dread ?
9:30 PM
@Pureferret like only 4 classes in the entire game? no
@Pureferret its a narrative indie game that uses a tower of jenga blocks for all conflict resolution
@waxeagle oh no, you build on them after that
@waxeagle cool
@Pureferret its a fun party game/one off
did something specific happen back in may/june?
@waxeagle I shall bring it up with my society
9:32 PM
maybe the star destroyer question?
@Pureferret its spiffy and you can get the PDF for pretty cheap
Do they provide a jenga tower?
@Pureferret no, but I got mine for like $11
@DForck42 We didn't look it up, but someone said they thought we were linked by Jeff Atwood on twitter or the blog.
@waxeagle the SD Q is from may 19
HUGE peak on may 20th
@Aether ahh
9:35 PM
@Pureferret I have a feeling that was the trigger
in comparison, here's what literature looks like
Seems they have an older demographic too.
A new comic, recommended by Nodwick creator: drunkduck.com/Roll_4_Damage
@BrianBallsunStanton work?
@Pureferret hahahaha
9:37 PM
@Pureferret dreadthegame.wordpress.com/about-dread-the-game has a link to the publisher's site for Dread
@waxeagle cool :)
@Pureferret I've run it twice for my gaming group and once at a party...its fun...
today was a shmoozing day at my old uni
9:39 PM
We do a lot of one-off for new people
objective: get editing done, kinda failed.
Mine is Finish Intro
your work?
my work is "do edits on gorram thesis" I just have to roll stupidhigh versus will to do it.
"A modest roleplaying propsal."
objective: back stories!
9:41 PM
@MadMAxJr whua?
second objective: next story point!
@BrianBallsunStanton I'll move onto a PhD at some point
Right now I'm working on my masters
also @DForck42 is letting us know what he's up to today
tertiary objective: a new girlfriend!
9:42 PM
@DForck42 link the three together?
@DForck42 acquire or schmooz with?
@Pureferret well the ex is still in the group
so that would jsut be weird
but that's if i even can find someone :-D
@DForck42 yowsers...
9:44 PM
Yeah I don't see how that can work...
it's... we're still friends
but we've agreed that we don't work as a couple anymore
and she's working on moving out (started packing today actually)
@DForck42 fair enough. Sorry to hear that. Hope it doesn't do too much damage to your group...
@DForck42 sorry to hear that, hope everything else goes smoothly
@BrianBallsunStanton is that the only one? there needz be moar
@BrianBallsunStanton, can I have your opinion on this? rpg.stackexchange.com/q/11781/2788
9:46 PM
@waxeagle yes.
@waxeagle it'll be alright
Q: What will happen with DDI subscriptions and online content for 4e?

wax eagleWith a new edition of D&D releasing next year (5e) what will happen to the online content for 4e? Will wizards continue to offer subscription services for 4th edition support, make those services public or stop them entirely?

@Pureferret burn it with fire!
@DForck42 you no like?
@Pureferret insufficient data. What kind of game. How stylied?
9:47 PM
Very styled
k, I'm out for now fellas. see y'all tomorrow if I don't make it back this evening
seeya wax
@Pureferret i was just being hyperbolic
@BrianBallsunStanton think exalted crossed with D&D
that's not stylized
In a wicked age, AW ...
9:48 PM
@DForck42 Hyperbolic.....reflecting sun.....igniting posts
What do you mean by stylized then?
Look away for a few minutes.. 37 new posts. What are we, IRC?
We're better than that
going to go grab some coffee
@Pureferret dunno how to say i was using hyperbole
@DForck42 "Hyperbolic" works.
@Aether that's what i used, but pureferret was all "huh?"
9:55 PM
@DForck42 Well, hyperbolic has two meanings. dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbolic?qsrc=2446
@DForck42 it's the interwebs
@DForck42 no idea of your tone :p
@BrianBallsunStanton I'm also stealing parts from Mouseguard, namely nature. Your highest stat is one of your natures, the others relate to your alignment, class and race. Level increase is done by increasing that nature
which is why the stats are stylized
so insufficient context for question, therefore not answerable
add context for better answers
Oh the answers are good
I'm just curious about your opinion
9:57 PM
oh. um
@Pureferret too bad game development only covers video/computer game development
the talky differentiation is annoying.
you seem the sort of well informed gamer who could give some input
1974 - First edition
1989 - Second edition
2000 - Third edition
2008 - Fourth edition
2012 - Fifth edition
@BrianBallsunStanton between Talk+stat?
9:59 PM
I would say a better differentiation is needed for soul.
well, you basically have "diplomacy" and "bluff" as stats
@MadMAxJr 15,11,8,4
which is a trap, I feel.
@BrianBallsunStanton Hmmm, how so?
@Pureferret yes, but don't forget the stagnant periods.
Someone needs to map the curve and measure the point at which we get more than one D&D edition per second.
10:00 PM
Well, diplomacy should be a function of all skills...
@Pureferret That's nearly linear. That means that the sixth edition will also be released in 2012, and the seventh in 2008, right?
@MadMAxJr What about 3.5?
Oooh more data
~Oh these points of data make a beautiful line, we're out of beta, we're releasing on time~
@MadMAxJr how apt!
(Actually, I can use the internet - it was 2003)
10:01 PM
and the long hiatus between second and third where the company was going WTF
you should be looking at book releases, not just new editions
not sure, I grabbed that data off a slashdot post on 5e
@BrianBallsunStanton 'function of all skills'?
@Pureferret um, have you read serious skills on at-will?
No, I don't do a lot of blog reading
oh, well go read them :)
A stats system should probably be about "approach to solving problems"
since that's usually what it maps to, rather than "simlulation of aspects of form"
(Also, so totally not a simulationist, I am)
but you already have that structure in your stats, so you should be looking at AW and um... leverage for inspiration
and In a wicked age.
10:05 PM
Ah ok
so while those stats cover the same ground, they are not the same as the stats in the systems you mentioned
due to the simulation/tool for solving problem problem
What do you mean by "approach to solving problems" because the stats I'm trying to design are how, if you favour that stat try to solve that problem
in character
yes, but instead of making the stats reflect that, you still have the stats reflecting aspects of character backstory rather than intent
someone with high brute does not necessarily have to be strong.
They simply have to be direct
I see what you mean.
In the game I want them to be one and the same
I don't know how well/if at all that works
it works poorly. You restrict character characterization to intent.
not all bruisers will be hulks
10:10 PM
It is quite restricting isn't it....
Or just a re-numbered d20?
Not loaded but I'd guess a d40
and it looks like a d24
10:11 PM
Yes, it would make a good sanity die for CoC
Oh god the d30
Bane of my life at the counter. NOBODY NEEDS YOU d30. D:
the counter?
10:20 PM
Does that make it the new d12?
it's not even a stanard die
I also recall a d24.
The d30 is a sad, misbegotten wretch. It shall dwell in obscurity and never be released... from its tower of shadows.
I have also seen a d100 (the golf-ball kind), used until the seam split.
So the d30 is the hunchback of the dice tower?
The Zocchihedron (or whatever it was called)
10:23 PM
@BrianBallsunStanton Saying things like that makes me want to design RPGs based around them...
@MadMAxJr yes, yes it is.
OotS made the d12 the die used in its "board" game because it was the most unloved die of the standard seven.
The game I'm making features the d12 :D
The d12 is the hipster of the dice. He used to be in RPGs before they were cool.
@MadMAxJr He's also the one who often flips out and kills everyone in a berserker rage.
10:29 PM
Watch 5e include proprietary, class-based dice.
@GraceNote oh?
@GraceNote What's on your mind?
Just thinking about a system that just has Euclidean solids. So, d4, d6, d8, d12, and d20, but not d10.
@GraceNote fun. Somehow it needs to make a big deal out of this, without having the handfuls of odd dice problem
I've got bad memories of that problem.
10:34 PM
@BrianBallsunStanton "odd dice problem"?
The rolling-pin style d4 dice are growing on me slowly.
No more caltrop d4s
To roll a persuasion check, roll 2d4+1d6+1d8+3d10+1d12
Also naturally you can always think of the associations (each represents an element, for example), there's a lot of potential fun.
Man quite a lot has happened while I've been gone!
@BrianBallsunStanton ...oh
10:34 PM
oh yes, fire being d4 (as per aristotle)
water being the d20
@MadMAxJr You can get octahedral d4s.
I'm pretty sure earth is d6
which leaves air as the d8? I can check when I get home.
Aye, and Air is d8
Void or similar mystic element is the d12
So yeah: proper fire elementals are giant d4s
And quintessence is d12?
10:35 PM
@MadMAxJr I think they wanted with 4e to get to "continuous release" - not a 5e, but a foreverE they mutate like WoW using DDI. I hope they don't keep going that way
Quintessence would fit as well
@BrianBallsunStanton They both hurt like hell when you step on them?
naah, Aristotle had no truck with any of that stuff :)
but yeah, a game based on elements = dice could be... fascinating
You can even consider it mechanically - things of the Fire element probably have higher minimum effect because the effect range is short (thus demanding more dice), while Water element has a wide range of effect since the range is a full 20.
mmm, you probably wouldn't want "roll high"
10:37 PM
Fire, that which burns hottest burns fastest (rolls 1 one, the entire die is ignored, snuffed out). Water flows. Roll a 20, keep rolling.
Wow, fire sucks :)
you'd probably want "explode into 2 dice" on a 4
Random thoughts off the top of my head.
so it flares up and then flickers out
Fire is fickle and can quickly grow out of hand.
10:38 PM
Roll a 4, roll two more d4s, open ended.
try not to beat your target number by too much, it tends to ... sting
stop when you run out of dice :)
if necessary, start taking from other dice on the table
"I need your d8s and five minutes with the jigsaw."
@BrianBallsunStanton This irks me no end....
10:40 PM
hey @AceCalhoon interesting close.
Water would flood on 20s. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's major.
@AceCalhoon I'd appreciate refinement assistance on that question
Air... The d8 shape always has a triangle facing on top. You could make it so the that direction it 'points' has something to do with a mechanic.
10:41 PM
@CRoss you have failed to flood the chat.
What did that leave, earth?
As a d6?
Earth as an element would have to represent stability perhaps? Unlike the other dice you don't risk as much but also don't have the chance of excessive gain?
The range of a d6 isn't as much as the others, but it would be reliable if nothing bad happens on a given roll. Aside from simply being low.
Cubes make pretty nice platforms, too
10:44 PM
Every roll of six gives you a bonus to something else?
Defence or whatever.
I'm just picturing a game where your stats are just a series of element marks.
The d20 would have to have some kind of wash-out. After rolling big, you've got some kind of dice void for a time.
10:58 PM
@BrianBallsunStanton I guess the issue is, what is the question you have about that?
@BrianBallsunStanton The current questions sounds like a poll... Are you really trying to find out what all the possible models in use are?
mmm. it'd be nice to know a design space of models
but yes, that's a survey.

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