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3:00 PM
both bug and feature, wanted and unwanted
Heisenbugs: Impossible to consistently reproduce
Ninja-bug: Always occurs right before your breakpoint
Who is user53010?
@zyabin101 It's the father of user53011
@NathanMerrill the more serious heisenbug is the one that can be consistently reproduced in a production environment, but never shows up when you try to debug it.
@aditsu bbl?
3:05 PM
@MartinBüttner I think I love this definition, because it seems to always happen to me...
@Katenkyo Looks like user No. 53011 keeps a low profile for 2 days. Or not?
oooh, if you are given a number N, and take the remainders when you divide by K divisors (starting with 2, then 3, and so on)
what is the minimum number of divisors you need to identify the number?
@You o/
3:07 PM
@zyabin101 Yes, it's me. You!
(assuming that the first number with the remainders is the one you want)
Philosophical question: Did I invent my username, or just discover it?
@PhiNotPi You have it. :)
It really depends on how you got your username.
for example, 7 can be represented using the sequence (1,1)
because it's the first number with remainders of 1 when you divide it by 2 and 3
Sounds like a nice challenge.
3:13 PM
I'm trying to find a test case that matches an earlier number, but the earlier number can be represented using a shorter sequence
@NathanMerrill Prime divisors, or integers 2,3,4,5,etc.?
I was thinking integers, but primes could work
@NathanMerrill You mean like 13 (1,1,3) and 7 (1,1)|(1,1,3) ? (using integers)
maybe, let me verify
13 is 1,1,1
Oh... right >_>
19 then
3:16 PM
yeah, 19 would work
So an input of (1) means 1, and input of (1,1) gives 7, and an input of (1,1,3) gives 19.
no, opposite
you accept 1, and you need to return (1)
Other than that, the pairs are accurate?
the sequence needs to be the shortest possible sequence though
no, because 19 shouldn't return (1,1,3)
because it also represents 7
3:20 PM
(1,1,3,4) should be sufficient though
My assumption was that, since (1,1) represents 7, then (1,1,3) can unambiguously represent 19.
right, which is why I wanted a test case to prove that assumption wrong :)
Why is it wrong?
well, according to my spec
So 1) put all remainders for input n in a list 2) do the same with all m<n 3) Find the shortest starting sublist of nlist that isn't a start to an mlist. Something like that?
3:21 PM
If I were to say there's a one to one between tuples and numbers
then you would be right
Swag collectors and not just: GitHub released a water bottle.
@Geobits yes.
I think there's a faster algorithm than that
@zyabin101 be back later
Probably. Are you interested in fast or golf though?
I think you'd need some big-ass numbers to time it.
yeah, it'll be code-golf
but I hope that somebody does find the faster one
it might even be shorter if its doing a bunch of math
maybe I'll give it a large test case and require it to run under a minute
3:24 PM
Could be. It's worth posting the challenge for sure ;)
@NathanMerrill don't do that unless you know for sure it's possible.
Ok :)
but I think you might be right that there's a much simpler solution
huh, the reverse challenge is also interesting
So the first few, starting at 2, would be (0),(1),(0,1),(1,0),(1,1),(0,0),(1,1),(0,2),(1,0,1)...
3:26 PM
I think you need to pick divisors such that their LCM is greater that the input
that represents the number 1
Interesting pattern so far.
@Geobits 7 should be (1,1,3)
I screwed something else up there, too...
@MartinBüttner why? 1,1 works?
its 5 that is wrong
3:29 PM
oh right
it should be 1,2
I don't know how I got (1,0) for 5 though.
it's also off by 1 somehow
And then it skipped 6 >_<
Geobits messed up
3:29 PM
Very badly.
Crap, my two-minute deletion window is over :(
3 isn't correct either
because 1 would be (1) already
Q: Build a triangle without any triangles

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJAs a little kid, I liked to play with these toys a lot: They probably intended for these to be used for art, but I always used them for math! Fractals, patterns, etc. One time, I was given this challenge: Build a triangle without using any of the green triangle tiles. This challenge stum...

@MartinBüttner I just assumed we were starting at 2, tbh.
@NathanMerrill do we assume that only positive integers are represented? or 0 as well? or 1 isn't?
3:30 PM
If starting at 0, then 2 would also be wrong.
yeah, I'm going to start with 0
ooh, that's brutal
Okay, I'm gonna forget this conversation ever happened now.
@NathanMerrill should 0 be ()? :P
it ruins my current program
no, (0)
you need at least 1 number there
and 1 is (1)
3:32 PM
because technically, (0,0,0....) is 0
we just shorten it as far as we can
so, (0, 2) is 2
(0), (1), (0,2), (1,0), (0,1), (1,2), (0, 0, 2), (1, 1, 3), (0, 2, 0), (1, 0, 1), ...
I knew what I was saying
just was thinking "2 is the divisor for 3"
anyway, yeah pretty sure that the length of the list is non-decreasing, and increases whenever we hit lcm(2,3,...,n)
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

FryAmTheEggmanWinning Solitaire Mancala Boards Mancala is the name of a family of board games that usually involve a series of cups filled with beads that the players manipulate. This challenge will use a specific rule set for a solitaire variant of the game. The board consists of a "basket" at one end, foll...

3:39 PM
@MartinBüttner no, I didn't see it
A: Find the program that prints this integer sequence (Cops' thread)

histocratRuby, 46 bytes Edit to add disclaimer/apology: This sequence starts with f[0], while the OEIS entry starts with f[1]. The values are the same. Obfuscated code (# is any character): ->####or x##1###(#..##0#);x*=3;end;#.###ect:+} Call like ->####or x##1###(#..##0#);x*=3;end;#.###ect:+}[3] (re...

3:51 PM
@MartinBüttner I can verify your findings
for the first 1000 numbers, every minimal listing length is either greater than or equal to the previous one
and, oddly enough
the lengths skip from 4 to 6
sure because adding 6 to the list of divisors doesn't increase their LCM
oooh, interesting. So, then 10 to 12 should skip as well
8 to 10 as well
no, because 8 is 2^3
the same reason why 4 wasn't skipped
you're off-by-2 ;)
skipping from length 8 to length 10 means skipping divisor 10
3:58 PM
oh, yeah, my bad
I was trying to say that with my 10 to 12 example :)
it was still correct though :P
yeah :)
well, I've done it for the first 10,000 cases
my algorithm is n^2, so I don't want to do more than that
also interesting, right before it moves to the next size, the sequence is always 1..n
I successfully wrote the second functional Babble program
it outputs HELLOWORLD
So, ARRHello, World!ZEPUT would output Hello, World!?
no, it would output HW
all [^A-Z] are ignored
4:02 PM
@Doorknob Aww...
I like how your "say" is ARR. :P
(now I have to implement "escapes" (Z[A-Z]) so strings can contain more than uppercase letters)
@El'endiaStarman It stands for ARRay literal. Strings are represented as arrays of bytes
@MartinBüttner The sequence should be A029858.
@zyabin101 yes
4:04 PM
@Doorknob Oh, that's less exciting. :P
and it's probably implemented via Sum(3^i)
@NathanMerrill no, all [^A-Z] are actually removed from the code before even looking at it
ah :)
something like ZLA will stand for lowercase A -> a
4:10 PM
@LuisMendo took him long enough ;)
@zyabin101 doesn't load
@LuisMendo :)
@MartinBüttner Haha. You are still top overall :-)
@MartinBüttner Text version: So, A029858(n) = (3^n - 3)/2.
4:11 PM
@MartinBüttner How is the difference between us so big? We roughly have the same amount of answers...
Are there any tags for which I am the all-time highest rep earner?
@Dennis the difference is much smaller than the difference in answers?
@zyabin101 that's what your OEIS link said, right?
@MartinBüttner Right.
Now, to fit that in the code...
like I said, probably implemented as sum(3^i)... I'm having more trouble getting the syntax right around that or (probably for)
@MartinBüttner No, I mean difference is answers in code-golf vs difference in answers overall..
4:14 PM
The hardest part of the conic-section challenge is to find out which sixth equation to add to make the system determined :-/
@Dennis oh right. I guess I've got more popcon/koth/cnr answers.
I'm in second place for
All because of that one KOTH
Definitely more KotH, since I have zero...
oooh, the sizes go up at each point in this sequence:
Q: (When) do my mod tools go away?

catI opened SE a few minutes ago and was pleasantly surprised to see I'd reached 2k rep, and alongside that gained access to mod tools (sehr interessant). I was mostly very confused, since I was certain mod tools come at 10k rep. By browsing http://SITENAME.stackexchange.com/help/privileges on vari...

4:21 PM
@NathanMerrill why am I not surprised that this sequence exists :)
This may or may not be an apeeling topic for everyone... :P
> apeeling
Q: Generate the minimal remainder sequence

Nathan MerrillEvery number can be represented using an infinitely long remainder sequence. For example, if we take the number 7, and perform 7mod2, then 7mod3, then 7mod4, and so on, we get 1,1,3,2,1,0,7,7,7,7,..... However, we need the shortest possible remainder subsequence that can still be used to distin...

4:37 PM
I should find something to undownvote; my reputation is 18880 which is frustratingly close to a palindrome.
Not even a Dennis number... :P
I can get you 1 rep:
@NathanMerrill Sounds shady. Do we meet in an alley?
@AlexA. I can downvote twice.
then upvote
Heh, pass.
4:39 PM
There are two ways to solve this problem:
1. Make it less frustratingly close to a palindrome
2. Make it a palindrome
there we go!
Wtf what happened
although, its not really a palindrome
I got +1
because its represented using a comma
4:41 PM
I got +3 ._.
Numbers don't have commas. Only their representations.
Numbers don't have digits :P
@AlexA. fixed
Also, aren't we all programmers? Anyone here who puts commas in their numbers in code?
Numbers don't have numbers.
4:42 PM
Is Resolve SAS Macro Variables a bad challenge? It just got downvoted. If people are voting in weird ways just to make my rep a palindrome I would appreciate it if they wouldn't.
I mostly just wanted to complain about it not being a palindrome.
from here on, we shall make sure that your rep stays 18881
Well that was a weird adventure, my rep is back to 18880.
you know, this site is great for introducing you to new languages, but terrible at giving you good introductions
I mean, maybe Ruby is a great language, but I have no idea
because I only see it in the super-golfed form
That's true. Stack Overflow and Code Review are better places to get introduced to good and/or idiomatic code in non-esolangs.
yeah, but SO and CR are more biased towards frequently-used languages
less so CR, but still
4:46 PM
Although, CR folks would keep bugging you for incorrect indentation or unoptimized code.
and missing comments
Hm. [feature-request] give other sites something similar to the upcoming Stack Overflow Documentation.
our documentation will also be golfed
a lot
That would be the perfect place for giving introductions to esolangs as well as the tips questions.
@NathanMerrill for some reason, when people post heavily golfed answers in well-known languages they don't feel the need to explain them as thoroughly than when they post in an esolang no matter how well it's golfed.
4:48 PM
"Its Python, every body knows it"
@MartinBüttner They probably assume more people know the language, and yeah, I too think that's an issue.
@MartinBüttner This is an excellent point. I've also noticed that very few people who golf in Mathematica explain their code at all, with the exception of you.
well, outside of TIO, the explanation is one of the best ways we have to verify correctness
Golfed Mathematica is as unreadable as any golfing language, IMO.
4:49 PM
(okay, I just posted that, and will probably add an explanation when I get around to it, but yeah :D)
Mathematica might be easier to read as the function names are pretty bowled
Yeah it's more the @@#$ or whatever being a synonym for first that's a pain to read :P
@FryAmTheEggman @$$ is a synonym for a curse word
ughh, chat search is so bad, I think it only searches for whole words
4:53 PM
Or the Office of Strategic Services
@MartinBüttner you've got a pretty funny suggested edit on your answer
@Optimizer yeah, with a weird definition of "word"
@NathanMerrill :/ rejected
May 31 '15 at 23:31, by xnor
found it
Nov 25 '15 at 21:45, by Alex A.
user image
oh and that too.
its pretty hard to search for images in chat-search
providing the right color average and variances is hard
@NathanMerrill Whoa, what the hell
> Mathematica, 55 bytes + fake bonus points
its a reference to my question
4:56 PM
...Uh, link suggested edit please?
For the record:
> Fake bonus points for any answers that are fast!
The last sentence in the question
You can go to the review queue and look at the history FYI if you want to find other ones yourself.
@AlexA. Thankee
@FryAmTheEggman Look at my rep. Then look at the required reputation for accessing the review queues.
4:58 PM
@NathanMerrill Nice question, by the way. Just read it. I might post an answer a little later.
But you can see the edit? Weird I thought they came together...
@AlexA. thanks :)
@FryAmTheEggman Hm? What do you mean?
@FryAmTheEggman I can't access the queues, so if I click the "next" button, I see "you need X rep". But seeing an individual suggested edit -- and not being able to vote -- doesn't hurt
@AlexA. He's confused that I can see the suggested edit page but not the queues.
I didn't realize that you could look at the one edit without the review priviledge
4:59 PM
Ohh gotcha
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

wnnmawRandom Wikipedia Browsing Here's a short one for you. Create a program or function prints or returns the title of a random Wikipedia page (similar to Alt + x functionality) Rules: Program or function will take no input Program or function will print to STDOUT (or nearest equivalent) or retu...

What's the Bash command to open a webpage in the default browser? open?
@QPaysTaxes xdg-open
Hey, so @QPaysTaxes wonderfully pointed out a url that makes my proposed challenge trivial to solve, is it considered acceptable to simply disallow that url?
5:14 PM
@wnnmaw I honestly don't know, like I replied on your question. Worth asking other people in chat, though ^^
@wnnmaw I think you might then get a problem with people just making another URL that does the same thing?
@FryAmTheEggman, they can do that? I really need to learn how the internet works
Just like how Quill made ppcg.lol
@wnnmaw Easily. It's just a 302 to the special
Or heck, index a few dozen Wiki pages and randomly choose which to redirect too
@AlexA. I'm still sad that pp.cg isn't a thing :(
It could be if you make it
5:17 PM
ok, so then any suggestions to make this non-trivial?
@AlexA. I don't have the money :P
Wait... maybe I do
I'll check when I'm home
@wnnmaw the challenge is, by definition, trivial
unless you really want the program to store every possible url, and randomly select one
@NathanMerrill, certainly not. Oh well, at least I found out in the sandbox
Even without the URL, it's get URL => DOM/XML parse => sample
Well thanks for the help folks!
5:24 PM
I've made a new language!
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I'm becoming increasingly less excited every time you say this... :P
@El'endiaStarman Oh well. It's fun. Besides, this is the most messed up thing I've made in a while.
Hey, it hones my craft--it helps me make really good langs.
It's also a nice thing for me to do when bored >_<
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ In a way, you're actually right about that. If you produce 100 languages, you're more likely to produce a good one than someone else who only makes 5.
@El'endiaStarman Precisely! The ones that are good will shine, and the ones that aren't are forgotten. This one is just for trolling the programmer tho
haha, okay
5:29 PM
First portion of "Hello, World!":
(Not even close to done.)
In what language?
"META", my own language.
I hate it already
It's an acronym for "META External Transpiling Application"
@QPaysTaxes why? :3
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ And I presume the "META" in that is an acronym for the same thing? :P
5:31 PM
@El'endiaStarman No, it's an acronym for "META Extra Tier Acronyms"
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym
@QPaysTaxes ... "IMSMETA?" what's that?
@El'endiaStarman I feel like the word for that is "decreasingly"
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ....and the "META" in that?
@El'endiaStarman It's nondeterministic, so it's usually one of the first two.
5:32 PM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ When making an acronym, you take the first letter of each word or abbreviation. Try again.
@QPaysTaxes I know :3
@QPaysTaxes That doesn't really work though. "decreasingly excited"? "decreasingly less excited"? "decreasingly more excited"?
@El'endiaStarman How about "less and less"?
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That was the reference, yes
5:32 PM
Yup :3
@QPaysTaxes Eh, that'd work, but doesn't really deliver the same impact. :P
How about "more less"? :3
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ "I find myself of the more lessly excited"
No, "more mostly lesser"
"I am to finding the myself in the more of lessly excitedness" according to Bing
5:36 PM
wtf Bing
That was actually made up
But you believed it, which says something about the quality of Bing
What quality?
bing-hate hi-five
misses the high-five, due to Bing's incorrect translation of that as "hand slap"
5:47 PM
It's probably better than yahoo.
These Expeditions lands keep showing up...
Which one makes more sense/is more useful for a golfing language? [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 3] (zip ish?) or [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 2 6 3] (cartesian product ish?)?
user image
@Cyoce Concatenate with +. This is the expected behavior.
Sometimes I feel like the only one here who doesn't play any of Magic: The Gathering, Dungeons & Dragons, Nethack (or other roguelike games), etc.
5:55 PM
If you want zip, I've seen % used. If you want cartesian product, use the symbol commonly associated with getting a product: *
@Cyoce Neither of those is a zip or a Cartesian product, at least as I know them
@Cyoce I'd never expect the latter. At least, not with +.
@AlexA. I haven't in a long time. I'm just getting back into it now that my kid is old enough to play.
@Cyoce Also, a zip is when you have two arrays, [1 2] and [3 4], and turn it into [[1 3] [2 4]]
5:56 PM
@AlexA. I don't play any of those. :P
And a Cartesian product, at least as far as I know, is when you have two arrays and generate all the possible combinations of elements from them
Ok guys. Here's the confusion. You think that + is a generic operator, it's not. My question is how math operations in general should affect arrays.
@Geobits Even so, you used to play; I guess I just don't have any interest in them.
Like Ruby's Array#product
@Cyoce Elementwise, like R
[1,2] + [3,4] == [4,6]
5:57 PM
@AlexA. I just assumed you didn't play because dice and cards are difficult for birds.
@AlexA. This
@Cyoce I think two of Pyth, CJam, and Jelly do it element-wise, or otherwise known as vectorizing.
@Cyoce Next time some beats the javascript bush, I'm gonna link that
@Geobits -.- I like the 52-card deck, blackjack et al. kind of card games
@Quill But he's not asking about the operator +. He's asking about the mathematical operation, addition
That was a case of miscommunication, not awful typing systems.
5:58 PM
So [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 3] is elementwise because it is [(1+2), (2+1)] and [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 2 6 3] is cartesian product because it is [(1 + 4), (1 + 1), (2 + 4), (2 + 1)]
In math a scalar + matrix => vectorized addition
matrix + matrix => member-wise addition
@Cyoce That's an elementwise sum.
Please don't call it "zipped". It's an elementwise operation.
I'm not good with terminology
The question is which of the two behaviors is more useful for golfing.

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