12:04 AM
@sky-light that's what I did:-) it's available in cygwin (probably what I used) and also native windows

@DavidCarlisle Thank you.

2 hours later…
2:14 AM
@egreg — I seem to have misplaced your expl3 redefinition of \showhyphens… do you have it handy? I have a spare minute to update xltxtra…

2:56 AM
@egreg Never mind! I found it — no thanks to searching for "show_hyphens" not returning anything in the chat search :)

4 hours later…
7:24 AM
@HenriMenke @DavidCarlisle Thanks guys. In the meantime @Stefan took care of the thread. But reading it now, i think the OP has something completely different in mind.

8:22 AM
Do \bfseries and \itshape deprecated?

@RomainPicot No.
\bf and \it are deprecated.

@TorbjørnT. I know for \bf and \it but was not sure about \bfseries and \itshape.
@TorbjørnT. For me the link say don't use \bf or \it but nothing about \bfseries and \itshape so I rather prefer to ask :). And thank you for your quick answer :)

@RomainPicot They are not deprecated at all, but \textbf and \textit are better for single words or short phrases, because they automatically add the italic correction.

@RomainPicot you couldn't get bold and italic if they were;-)

@egreg @DavidCarlisle Ok so I should create a little script to modify every \bf and \it to \textbf and \textit in the doc I'm writting with other people

8:35 AM
@RomainPicot {\it<space>\emph{

@egreg recorded ;-)

@RomainPicot well you could, although \bf \bfseries and \textbf all do different things so in general you can't just change the names
@RomainPicot \bf is defined as \normalfont\bfseries so in general if you want to replace \bf you should replace it by that

@DavidCarlisle I'm the main writter of the doc. I do what I want no? :P

@RomainPicot oh by script I assumed you meant a generally usable tool, if it's just one doc just a one off change in an editor, no script needed:-)

@DavidCarlisle Whoever is still using \bf is not aware of the subtlety.

8:40 AM
@DavidCarlisle If someone modify my code I may modify it quickly by script (I think I can make it with 10 python lines :-) )

@egreg true but conversion scripts should be more subtle and take more care than their users deserve
@egreg (serious question) do you know anything about base 12 and the use of turned 2 and 3 U+218A, U+218B as duodecimal digits 10 and 11?

@DavidCarlisle Not much about the characters, except that essentially no font on my machine provides them.
@DavidCarlisle About duodecimal base, I know everything, of course.

@egreg latex got cited as part of their justification unicode.org/L2/L2013/13054-duodecimal.pdf and @barbarabeeton and I just got asked ...
@egreg there isn't much to know so I trust you that far.

@egreg :-)

8:47 AM
@DavidCarlisle I guess they read about dozenal.sty

9:06 AM
@egreg Yay! The name is already awesome. :)

9:54 AM
@RomainPicot Beware, for the syntax is not context-free. :)

@PauloCereda I know but I'll do it when I'll have some times

@RomainPicot :)

10:11 AM
There's a datetime*2* package D;

\documentclass{article}
\def\bf\bf#1#2{\def\bf{d\def\bf\bf{u\def\bf{c\def\bf{k}}}}}
\begin{document}

\bf\bf\bf\bf\bf\bf\bf\bf\bf

\end{document}
@PauloCereda ^^

@DavidCarlisle You, sir, are a living legend.

1 hour later…
11:15 AM
It is so quiet in here.
QUAAAAAAAAAAAAACK
Does it echo? :)
:)

@PauloCereda \bf

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

I think she made that tweet especially for you :D

@BMWurm OMG MLG duck
@RomainPicot: vvv
@Alenanno: ^^^

@PauloCereda Did you just tag me? Because I joined the chat by chance lol

11:28 AM
@Alenanno <3

@PauloCereda I mean, she's hot, but that (show/performance) is ridiculous. XD

@Alenanno Super Bowl, what should we expect? :)

(excluding katy perry again)

@Alenanno :)

:P

1 hour later…
12:54 PM
@JosephWright Is there any word more formal than a "party" and less formal than a "reception"?

@yo' get-together?

@PauloCereda does not sound to fit in, but thanks for an idea!
(writing an invitation to my PhD defense and party, btw, the thesis is online)

@yo' <3

Where is @RomainPicot when I need him? :D

@PauloCereda Less formal than party
@yo' 'celebration'

1:00 PM
@JosephWright GOOD TIMES, C'MON!
@JosephWright ooh

@JosephWright thanks. And is party too informal for something you send to ~500 people you do not know?

@yo' No, but I think I'd go for 'celebration'
@yo' Always amazes me how short theses are in maths

@JosephWright yep, sounds good to me

@yo' 1/6 of my city's population! :D

@JosephWright :) mine is quite extremal actually, I haven't seen shorter. Still, nobody seems to consider it an issue so far.

1:02 PM
@JosephWright I've seen a 4-page paper once. :)

@PauloCereda there's a 5-page paper including the title, an abstract and the references

@yo' I guess I have to allow for single spacing ...

@yo' ooh

@JosephWright mine is 1.05

@PauloCereda Oh, historically a paper could be much less than a page (for a communication): modern times have allowed us a lot of space

1:03 PM
@JosephWright ABNT requires \doublespacing

@PauloCereda One of the few sensible decisions then

@JosephWright Indeed. :) My favourite paper is from Wirth, it's a quarter of a page. :)
@JosephWright I won't say I dislike it, it's the amount of other silly decisions that make me cringe.

@JosephWright indeed. But there's one from 2003/2005/2006, it's "A dynamical Proof of Pisot's Theorem" by Jarek Kwapisz: math.montana.edu/jarek/papers.html An important note: the original proof is much much longer, and it's a big theorem for us.

@yo' In chemistry it's nowadays hard to get away with a communication that's under three pages

@JosephWright in maths it's the same (there are special journals for that actually), but this one could have gotten in a very reputable journal IMHO.

1:07 PM
Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
But here's my paper,
So cite me, maybe?

@PauloCereda So cite me, baby! :D

@yo' I will add this line to my card. :)

@PauloCereda oh no! (will you cite me? :D )

@yo' Metacitation. :)
The amusing part is that @David might actually be cited in my thesis...

@PauloCereda for some professional work?

1:13 PM
@yo' Companion, possibly. :)

@PauloCereda oh! And is it really for the formal and computer languages stuff, or solely for LaTeX as a tool?

@yo' formal stuff, surprisingly. :)

@PauloCereda very cool!

@yo' <3

1:37 PM
@JosephWright @PauloCereda @yo' what about a PhD thesis without any words? It exists :)
@yo' I'm here what do you need?

@RomainPicot proofread a French mail, if you had 5 minutes spare, kindly please...

@yo' Well I'm not so good in French writing but I may have a look

@RomainPicot but you are a native speaker, right? :D

@yo' For sure :)

@RomainPicot good :)
Bonjour,
je voudrais vous inviter à la soutenance de ma thèse

« Aspects géométriques des représentations positionelles des nombres réels et complexes »

dirigée par Edita Pelantová (Czech Technical University in Prague) et Wolfgang Steiner (IRIF, Université Paris Diderot).

La soutenance aura lieu le lundi 1er février 2016 à 14h en Amphi Turing, bâtiment Sophie Germain à Paris. Un pot suivra, avec la cuisine tchèque. L'adresse est
Bâtiment Sophie Germain
8 place Aurélie Nemours
75013 Paris
France

1:47 PM
Bonjour,
j'ai le plaisir de vous inviter à ma soutenance de thèse:

« Aspects géométriques des représentations positionelles des nombres réels et complexes »

dirigée par Edita Pelantová (Czech Technical University in Prague) et Wolfgang Steiner (IRIF, Université Paris Diderot).

La soutenance aura lieu le lundi 1er Février 2016 à 14h en Amphi Turing, bâtiment Sophie Germain à Paris. Un pot, comportant des saveurs tchèque, suivra.

Bâtiment Sophie Germain
8 place Aurélie Nemours
75013 Paris

@RomainPicot thanks a lot!

@yo' I've modified it a little. By the way you can wrote the title in English and perhaps say that the talk will be in english

@RomainPicot PS: Coin coin!

@PauloCereda Quack

@RomainPicot the mail will have two versions: English and French, the English one first, so I think it should be fine.
(well, I thought I may not ask for a proofreading of the mail so that it's clear I'm not a native speaker...)

1:53 PM
@yo' I think if they notice your name and the fact that your thesis was done in Czech mays be sufficiant too

@RomainPicot I hope so. If not, they'll only have to go through the talk and questions, the celebration is language-independent ;-)

@yo' one way to show that the talk will be in English is to put the title in English ;-)

@RomainPicot :-) I'll leave it be, after all, the readers are supposedly of the most clever in the world ;-)
btw: (Descendre en bas pour la version française.) -- is that correct, please?

@yo' No.

@PauloCereda -- there *is* some precedent for tug meetings outside of the summer months of the northern hemisphere:
2011, kerala, india, oct 19-21
2006, marrakech, morocco, nov 9-11
1998, new york city, mar 21-24
1980, stanford, feb 22-23 (organizational meeting)
so sign up support, and make a proposal.

1:57 PM
@yo' like that you say "go downstairs down" or similar

@RomainPicot damn, that's what one Czech association uses all the time! What would you write at the top of a mail in this sense?
@RomainPicot so one should drop "en bas"?
@barbarabeeton I thought the meeting alternates North America and the rest of the world... Is it only my impression from the limited amount of information I found?

@yo' "Version française plus bas"?
but I'm not really convienced by myself

@Alenanno -- some sharks are lawyers.
2

@RomainPicot That sounds about right! Or "Voir plus bas pour la version française". But yours comes out as well when I google it. cc @yo'
@barbarabeeton So some lawyers are misunderstood?

@Alenanno @yo' follow this version it's better than mine (I haven't thought about it)

2:04 PM
@yo' -- that's pretty much the intent, but it's not cast in concrete. part of the decision is based on the likelihood that enough people will be able to get there, affordably, to make the organizing effort worthwhile.

@barbarabeeton ooh that's cool! But I think it would be very evil of me asking everybody to gather in Brazil during summer. :)

@Alenanno -- some lawyers, i think, try very hard to make some things not understandable, or to sow confusion and doubt in support of their clients.

@barbarabeeton Lawyers are still people, not saints. But I suppose you can find good people in there too, then. :P

@PauloCereda -- yes, that is evil. but if you can guarantee a mosquito-free environment, ...

@RomainPicot Me neither. It appeared on Google. My French is not that good anymore... I shall retake it soon!

2:08 PM
@Alenanno Some times you are too focus on some point and you forget other ;-)

@barbarabeeton Oh my, I forgot! I cannot host the conference while Brazil is struggling with an outbreak of dengue, chikungunya and zika.

@Alenanno -- never said i had anything against lawyers as people -- i've known a few who were/are quite delightful. i just tend to dislike some of their professional practices, and think that, in general, there are more of them than necessary.

@RomainPicot :P ù

@barbarabeeton that's one thing, another thing is that the meeting has to be valuable itself, for which you need the people to come as well...

@barbarabeeton If you're also saying that some of that stuff is unnecessarily complicated, I agree. :D

2:10 PM
@RomainPicot @Alenanno Thanks

@PauloCereda -- yes, that last one is particularly tragic. (unfortunately, i am a mosquito magnet, and i've also had several long bouts with very high fevers, not mosquito-related, to the point of being packed in ice because medication wasn't working fast enough. not something i wish to repeat. so mosquitos + infections flashes bright red lights at me. we have to get you to a meeting somewhere else, in person.)

2:35 PM
@barbarabeeton I am also a mosquito magnet, no matter how much repellent I use. :( They used to tell me I had to take a lot of vitamins from the B complex, but I had no luck either. I think our blood must be sweet (I hope vampires don't hear me). :)

@RomainPicot Ah the classic vampire figure. :) If you dare post the new trend (Patinson-whatever guy) I will block you. :)
Das Vampir!

@PauloCereda Pattinson the vampire that can live in the light...

@RomainPicot boo
Then suddenly Leslie Nielsen as a vampire comes to my mind. :)
:26999952 OH MY I NEED THIS DUCK
@RomainPicot ^^ :)

@PauloCereda I'll look later I've some work

2:42 PM
@RomainPicot coin coin! <3
I am drinking wine and eating chicken!

@PauloCereda Quack !
I love receveing spam from Journal calling me Professor :)

@RomainPicot ooh

@PauloCereda You never received one? Dear Pr. would you like to publish in our journal? Oh by the way fee: 1000\$

@RomainPicot ^^ never. :)

@PauloCereda Not the real one, though.

2:52 PM
@egreg ooh indeed! :) I watched a documentary of his life and work and his daughter told he asked to be buried wearing his famous Dracula cape. :)

@PauloCereda the last one is epic: from electrical and electronics technology because my publication in this field are so great ! (I have one publication in computer science btw)

@RomainPicot ooh
@Romain: Numerical Validation of Compensated Summation Algorithms with Stochastic Arithmetic?

@PauloCereda What are you talking about? :P

@RomainPicot You are about to get a stalker follower in ResearchGate. :)

@PauloCereda I do not really use ReseachGate you know? I rather use linkedin

3:01 PM
@RomainPicot Neither do I. :)

@PauloCereda So will follow me on ResearchGate? ^^

@RomainPicot Done. :)

@PauloCereda if you want to read something: ac.els-cdn.com/S1571066115000481/…

@RomainPicot Thank you! It's the kind of reading material I enjoy. :)

@PauloCereda Have you seen all the math inside? ;-)

3:12 PM
@RomainPicot That's why I enjoy it. :)

@PauloCereda Most of your publication are in portuguese
:)

@RomainPicot It would be worse if they were in duckspeak.

When wanting a space after something like \LaTeX are there differences between \ , {} , and \@ ?

@egreg Quack !

@StrongBad \@ isn't a space. I generally prefer {}, but \  is good as well

3:24 PM
@StrongBad I think Knuth recommended \
I have read that somewhere on this site. :P

@egreg does \@ set the space factor to an interword space (or something like that) so that the following space (which will not be eaten since @ is not a "letter") will be an interword space?

@StrongBad Yes, that's correct, but it's overkill. Here's how Knuth writes

@Alenanno my guess is that opening and closing a group would be slightly less efficient than just sticking a space in.

This manual is intended for people who have never used \TeX\ before, as
well as for experienced \TeX\ hackers.

@RomainPicot We need to publish a couple of them because of some internal rules. :)

3:28 PM
@egreg it is not fair for us mortals when you and Knuth disagree.

@PauloCereda How internal rules or why every thesis written in France must be in French (some exceptions exist of course)

@egreg You'll only encourage certain people!

@JosephWright That's a quotation from the TeXbook!

@egreg Yes, I know
@egreg But whilst it might have been true in 1982 I'm not sure it stands today

@JosephWright Less computer culture, nowadays.

3:42 PM
@JosephWright do you not like \  or have an issue with the TeXbook?

@egreg I'm thinking particularly comment (obvious one) on tex.stackexchange.com/questions/288729/…

@StrongBad Sorry, I didn't mean to "edit" your message. I say "edit" only because I opened it and pressed send by mistake (without changing anything lol).

@JosephWright “All common LaTeX functions”? Oh, dear!

@StrongBad I've no issue with The TeXbook but would not say that it is the best guide to beginners nowadays. Moreover, I wouldn't recommend learning plain to a new user.
@egreg It's about points of view: I guess he means things like cross-refs, TOCs, ...

@JosephWright I implemented them for AMS-TeX 20+ years ago. ;-)

3:45 PM
@egreg Of course, that question doesn't really mean latex.ltx ~ 'LaTeX' so ...

@Alenanno no worries, I don't think the system actually registered the edit.

@egreg Yes, sure: the basic ideas are not that complex (at least for an implementation viewed as a model for the user-as-programmer to modify)

@StrongBad It did, the small pencil came out. But I didn't change anything. It still considers it an edit though. :P

@Alenanno Ah, I see the edit, apparently the markup gobbled the \

@StrongBad Yes, maybe \ works.
Indeed, two backslashes.

3:48 PM
@StrongBad Personally I favour \TeX{} as \TeX\  is forcing a particular type of space rather than simply terminating scanning for ignored spaces

@JosephWright What about the xspace package? That seems to help a lot.

@Alenanno even the package author doesn't like xspace

@Alenanno @DavidCarlisle ;-)

@Alenanno yes, @DavidCarlisle has said so in a couple of places.

3:50 PM

@RomainPicot So, it's kinda useless.

@JosephWright is there an easy example of when the wrong space would be used?

@Alenanno not useless but good have some not known features

@RomainPicot Those listed there are drawbacks, not features. :P

3:54 PM
@Alenanno Well as @DavidCarlisle may say, his packages don't have any bug only unknown features ;-)

@Alenanno I understand the thinking, but it's a case where I'd just accept that TeX's grammar means we have to use a little more markup

4:48 PM
@Joseph: so \TeX\ and \TeX{} produce different outputs?

@PauloCereda No, not unless someone's redefined \

@JosephWright This sounds like an evil job for @egreg and @DavidCarlisle. :)

@JosephWright :)
@PauloCereda I don't think I've ever redefined \ , but there's always a first time.

@egreg a challenge! :)

@egreg Mainly a semantic difference: it's purely personal preference
@egreg Looking over some of Petr's code and working out why the LaTeX version needs to be more complex

5:00 PM
@JosephWright Possibly a slight difference in performance. Let me see.
@JosephWright Actually a{}  seems to perform a tad faster than a\

@egreg Hmm, not sure what I'd actually predict

@egreg Really? I thought the other way around.

@PauloCereda 4.66s against 4.70s

@egreg Interesting! How do you time it? time pdflatex test.tex?

@PauloCereda Yes

5:09 PM
@egreg Nice!

The comments on my response to the RTFM meta question almost make me feel like adding a list of examples of shall we say "less than ideal" documentation.
Examples: "Only found inside the package" setspace. "Depends completely on the documentation of some other package" bigfoot. "Can't see the docs behind all the flags" minitoc. :)

1

Do these ads actually work for anything? I don't see any point of having ads. We can instead hack them and put MWE requests, or practice tips such as minimal is too minimal!! or \bf is not your bff. \it is a cheater. and so on.

^^ good idea from sir! @percusse

@AlanMunn KOMA is nice :-)

@Johannes_B Especially because of the template they used. :)

@AlanMunn the german manual is hard to read even for a german native.

5:22 PM
@Johannes_B Ah, but that's German academic writing generally, isn't it? :)

@AlanMunn Longled tangled sentences.
So, i guess that means yes :-)
@AlanMunn With biblatex, sometimes i don't even look at the doc, but at the source code. You almost never can say: Just look at the source code of the package to an OP.

5:42 PM
@PauloCereda But in ConTeXt or plain ...

@JosephWright Uh-oh.
Sorry. :)

1 hour later…
6:59 PM
@PauloCereda Andante from n. 21 playing, had my wine, train on schedule. Something's going wrong.

@egreg Oh my! Is it raining frogs?

@PauloCereda We're not even below 0!

@egreg Oh no!
@egreg: what comes next? A bug found in one of @DavidCarlisle's packages?

@PauloCereda Too easy!

@egreg :D

7:42 PM
@egreg we have -8C here

7:52 PM
@yo' Cool ;-)

@JosephWright pun intended :-)

@yo' Pun indented.

@Joseph It should be -16 tonight and the night after.
@Manuel what? :-)

@yo' It's not good to explain a joke, but…
@yo' \indent Pun

@Manuel :)

1 hour later…
9:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle What else is outstanding for the upcoming release? Just 'wait for the day'?

9:55 PM
@JosephWright looks like it.
@PauloCereda compare \TeX\ . and \TeX{}. so {} has the advantage in automated scripts that you can always do it, but you can only use \  if you do actually want a space.

@DavidCarlisle Psmith does. Aren't ads just for bots to harvest money?

10:17 PM
@DavidCarlisle That is a nice example for why I should use {}.

@JosephWright see Karl's comment re ini and cfg files should we open two more repo under l3 github?

@DavidCarlisle We certainly can do, though at least for the .ini files the entire point is this is stuff that's explicitly not part of the team's 'view' of the format
@DavidCarlisle Good example

@JosephWright yes but I think we can have them out of base but on ctan as "example ini/cfg files" or some such description. If it happens that the example is exactly what texlive uses, so be it.

@DavidCarlisle OK, in that case some docs are needed. I guess I'll add to the team GitHub, then.

10:32 PM
@JosephWright think it should be better: current arrangement was fine when things were stable but getting things updated for all distributions by sending mail to texlive just feels wrong:-)

@DavidCarlisle OK
@DavidCarlisle I'll work on something over the weekend: Karl likes the files themselves to be short but we really do need some documentation

@JosephWright probably need to do the ini and cfg as two separate ctan and probably two separate gh repo, I could do the cfgs if you want or you could set up both if that would make things more consistent, whichever..

@DavidCarlisle Give me a day to think about it :-)

@JosephWright no problem, I just got in and wasn't planning on doing anything today:-)

@DavidCarlisle Cool
@DavidCarlisle I'll probably start with the .ini files and see where that takes me

11:40 PM
0

I have been using ShareLatex so far, but sometimes its a pain using the website when it is much faster to just manipulate files on your own computer, for larger projects. Since I am beginning a larger LaTeX project, I was wondering: FEATURE-WISE, what have users encountered as pros and cons of L...

There's no good reason for either. ;-)