The Whiteboard

whatsisname

12:00 AM

zomg that black theme is awful

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname it's pretty terribad, but you download others from visualstudiostyl.es

or something like that

whatsisname

@JimmyHoffa: you think having your entire browser be filled up with 3 words, then have to scroll an entire page height to see a few more words, is nice and pleasant?

Ixrec

now I'm not sure what websites we're talking about

whatsisname

that url doesn't work lol

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname scrolling a page height is a simple roll of the scroll wheel... It's no different than clicking a button.

whatsisname

12:01 AM

@Ixrec: did you see that job ad Thomas posted a few days ago

Ixrec

nope

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname try harder. Either way, there's tons of visual studio styles and an entire gallery of them

whatsisname

scroll wheel is about 100x more work than moving my eyes downwards

lemme look for it

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname if I'm going to look downward, I'll be scrolling anyway because I'll want to follow the whole page. And scroll wheel is completely natural for me... what do you use, a track-ball?

Ixrec

I use a track ball, and it has a scroll wheel

Jimmy Hoffa

12:03 AM

@Ixrec you enjoy doing this to me, don't you? I'm taking the scotch back.

whatsisname

originate.com

there it is

Ixrec

somewhat yes

also I don't drink

whatsisname

originate.com/about

Ixrec

ok I see what you mean there

whatsisname

that page uses about 40 million pixels for about 100 words

Ixrec

12:05 AM

but I would characterize that as not so good due to the lack of real information, not due to how its layed out

Jimmy Hoffa

I like how it only adds contrast for significant shifts.

@Ixrec yes, it's a shit box place with garbage content.

Ixrec

I remember the Xbox One official web page having a similar layout but actual information so it was a pretty clear presentation of why they thought you should buy one

Jimmy Hoffa

I like that style of UI. It makes it easier to find what I'm looking for I think but having less noise. As a power user I want more noise in things I am interacting heavily in - but for things I'm using as a passerby... I want not more buttons and choices and junk

Ixrec

(granted I would've preferred it had even more info than it did, but hey)

psr

@whatsisname That's because it's much harder to leave people with NO IDEA what your website is actually about if you have room for more words. If you say what you do then it might not match what potential clients are looking for.

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:07 AM

whatsisname

psr: there are tons of pages with that kind of nonsensical design

Ixrec

xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one yeah, this is pretty close to the one I remember

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ixrec I generally find Microsoft websites to be terrible messes of (a) flat design, (b) no consistency or evident structure whatsoever, (c) broken links, (d) no useful information.

Ixrec

@LightnessRacesinOrbit due to the sheer size of the mysterious entity known as Microsoft, I must ask which sites you have in mind; the documentation sites? help forums? marketing pages? etc

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec this style is heavily prevalent in modern sites - it's really become a large common approach in the past hand full of years.. Many hate it, I like it, some probably have valid reasons they dislike it from personal approach to using things, some certainly hate it because it's not what they're used to (bring back the dos prompt!!), but it is everywhere if you start to recognize that vertical approach

Ixrec

12:10 AM

personally I like it for sites I'm only going to visit once and my only interest is "What is this thing you're selling and why do you expect me to care?"

and that is exactly the question it's designed to answer

Jimmy Hoffa

The idea is: Scroll for further information on current topic- information grows more detailed and more contextual as you go down, if you don't wish to explore the current topic/content, you can hopefully figure that out from the low-detail information at the top and click away at the top to what you do want

Ixrec

sites I have an existing vested interest in, yes I'd prefer something more dense in information

enderland

@Ixrec this sort of thing is an abomination

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec yeah, power user stuff I'd want more information on the screen. This is why I like Metro; I'm not a "power" user of my phone. I browse the web, make phone calls, take pictures, and play music with it. I don't need androids apps that give me a bajillion options on each screen to operate my root-space manifold and reorganize my /var syslog tail catcher.

Ixrec

I suspect the kind of people who have strong opinions about UI trends are also not the target audience for those trends

enderland

12:13 AM

most UI trends are not data based

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ixrec Connect immediately comes to mind. The Skype site isn't great. Any other examples I don't remember the names of because I have avoided such sites for years.

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland ugh database UI's are the worst

Ixrec

now that you mention it, the last time I went to the Skype site to download Skype I found it weirdly difficult

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa That's a complete non sequitur. What does flat design have to do with featureset scale?

enderland

that's a creepy picture for "deadpan" in a search...

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:14 AM

@Ixrec I have never gotten over the lack of any version information about MSN Messenger downloads, and the download itself being called INSTALL.EXE.

A while ago, of course.

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's about the display format. Focused on super users - you do want more information on the screens so they can see and find the 15 different choices of which they want to toggle most of them.

Lightness Races in Orbit

See, MS started this whole "users don't need to know about version numbers and upgrades" trend but, unlike e.g. Chrome, they didn't add "but we'll make it discoverable for those who want to".

Which is remarkable because the Chrome devs are arrogant as frak

So, by comparison...

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit really? did Apple not do it first? It seems to me everything MS has done for years now has been implementing Apples ideas because Apple has all the damned market they want

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa It has nothing to do with how much information is provided. This is about how information is presented. It's about using more than two colours and it's about using more than an amorphic floating white gap to demarcate widgets

Ixrec

I'm under the impression that the distinction between casual and power users is not as clear as it seemed in the past; almost nobody goes into the deepest settings of any app they use on a regular basis, and a very large number of users need to tweak one random "advanced" setting because for whatever reason the app just doesn't do what they want without it

Jimmy Hoffa

12:16 AM

Metro is the only thing MS has done in the consumer space in recent time that wasn't purely apple inspired - only it still was a bit because they didn't give two shits about phones before that.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa maybe - I ignore Apple entirely

enderland

@Ixrec there are still plenty of clueless computer users out there

Ixrec

I'm not suggesting casual users are clueless

enderland

I think most are

Lightness Races in Orbit

I applaud them for trying with Metro. Getting out ahead a little there for a change. However they still haven't solved (and nobody has so fair play to a degree) the basic problem that tablet use and desktop use are completely different paradigms and I'm still not convinced any UI is ever going to be decently transplantable between the two without substantial modification.

enderland

12:18 AM

the median computer user does not know much

Lightness Races in Orbit

which is why Windows 8+ looks and feels like shit on a desktop

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec I suggest causal users are clueless. They are simply acting based on predetermined causes! They have no clue what the cause is or why they're doing it! Clueless!

Ixrec

what would be fair to say is that most users really do not care about UI trends or about reading the manual or knowing what the 500 settings do, they have an actual task to accomplish and only care about the parts of your app that help them accomplish said task

Lightness Races in Orbit

my concern being that they'll go "meh fine fuck it" and "everyone's using tablets nowadays" and I'll be stuck trying to program on tablets :(

whatsisname

@LightnessRacesinOrbit: that is exactly why my blood pressure goes up about this stuff

Ixrec

12:19 AM

and let's face it, there is way too much software out there and on our computers for even us to have any hope of being non-clueless about all the programs we interact with

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ixrec just because they can't hold a conversation about UI or necessarily even have conscious awareness of it doesn't mean UI design choices don't massively affect their productivity. It's still massively relevant to them.

enderland

@Ixrec I think you are dramatically overestimating how competent most people are with computers

Ixrec

@enderland what part of what I'm saying assumes competence?

Lightness Races in Orbit

the opposite if anything

whatsisname

every stupid tech writer that says something like "Desktops are done for", I want to make them design some electronics on a tablet then smack them upside the head

psr

12:20 AM

@Ixrec You're assuming I can read!

Ixrec

@psr that is a prerequisite for using a chatroom

enderland

@Ixrec you would think so wouldn't you.... ;)

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit gods no - transplanting between the two is stupid. That was an epic marketing fail on their part. I will however say: Metro vs. start bar, c'mon - everyone's start bar is a fucking mess. Why are people honestly pointing at that godawful thing and saying "You removed it!!", they couldn't make it worse. fuck look at that thing!

Ixrec

@whatsisname agreed, there's a lot of stuff that obviously will never be practical on a touch device, even if the "average" user doesn't do a huge amount of that stuff

Jimmy Hoffa

enderland

12:22 AM

M$ and Apple are going to design their devices/UIs so that the average person can use them effectively and the average person doesn't care about much other than opening an internet browser and playing games. maybe a "power user" will use office applications

Jimmy Hoffa

somehow metro which doesn't disappear because you accidentally moved your mouse off it is a worse start bar than trying to traverse-by-menu-hover? Bleh.

whatsisname

well MS for a long time to their credit was pretty good at balancing having a UI that works for n00bs well enough and power users

Jimmy Hoffa

People have for the longest time known that the start menu is horrible to use on 90% of computers as it bloats up and becomes useless such that you just use the search bar - which is made more prominent in the metro start... people just bitch because it changed, and folks who should know better hop on the wagon.

Ixrec

my personal experience using a Win8 laptop was that I couldn't figure out how to do anything

literally, not one thing

couldn't add or rearrange tiles, couldn't access any of the settings you'd expect from the old Control Panel, couldn't search anything, couldn't run any apps except the default tiles

Jimmy Hoffa

the first tile is usually "desktop"...

Ixrec

12:25 AM

I know there are ways to do all of those things, but I couldn't discover any of them on my own given >10 minutes alone with a laptop

eventually I found the "desktop"

and then things got better

but that sort of defeats the whole exercise

psr

@Ixrec - That was the problem for MS. A whole lot of people gave up right there.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec no it doesn't! You're not supposed to live in metro on a non-touch device!

People seem to think otherwise which is silly..

Ixrec

so, why does metro exist on a non-touch device?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec replaces the start menu.

Ixrec

why is it the default on a non-touch device?

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:27 AM

Ixrec

it's a start menu replacement with none of the things on the real start menu?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec it has all of the things on the start menu... ?? unless somebody removed them all O_o

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa My XP start menu was a thing of beauty. not quite so useful from Vista onwards. but I'm still partial to my taskbar.

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I like my taskbar as well; it's never gone away.

Only the start menu got replaced

Ixrec

@JimmyHoffa I'm sure they were hiding in there somewhere, but I couldn't find them!

Jimmy Hoffa

12:28 AM

there's so much misinformation about it..

Lightness Races in Orbit

I know

problem is what it was replaced by

47 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit

Ironically I also really hate UIs that move shit around because it's detected what I use most often.

e.g. tiles

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit ?? It has everything my start bar would have on it..

Lightness Races in Orbit

blocks of random size that are ... somewhere .. in there

useless and silly

Ixrec

you seem to have experienced a significantly more competent flavor of metro than the rest of us did

that or you read a manual before using it

enderland

ever since Win7 I just search the task bar instead of using the menus anyways

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:29 AM

alphabetical LIST please with folders... hmm, what was that, Start Menu?!

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec I don't know who set up that system then.. I could ruin a start bar in vista by removing everything if I wanted too...

@Ixrec nah, I hit windows key, and it has...everything there...

not sure what you were looking for? Safari? :P

Lightness Races in Orbit

since Win7 I use a combination of the taskbar, the whatever-you-call-it-shortcuts-on-start-menu-before-"All Programs", win+r and explorer (well, Directory Opus)

Ixrec

I never use the Windows key, so maybe that's part of the reason

Lightness Races in Orbit

turns out I don't use that many programs so it all fits into that more or less

enderland

@Ixrec wat

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:30 AM

except in emergencies. and then I go digging in All Programs

psr

@JimmyHoffa That you hit the windows key puts you in the top 5% of users, at minimum.

enderland

win+L, E, and S are all really great

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr ok, well if I don't hit it and put my cursor where my start menu would have been, it pops up then too...

enderland

Win+S takes a screenshot in OneNote

Lightness Races in Orbit

win+l, e, r ftw. no idea what win+s is.

Ixrec

12:31 AM

@enderland I have no idea what these do

enderland

@Ixrec win+E opens explorer

win+L locks your computer

Lightness Races in Orbit

pfft

enderland

please tell me you use alt+tab :P

Ixrec

I use alt+tab constantly

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit honestly you only need 2: win+r, and windows-then start typing. It automatically begins searching for what you type.

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:31 AM

Print Scrn, Win+R, pbrush, <enter>, resize canvas to tiny, ctrl+v, ctrl+s, type filename, <enter>

enderland

win+r too, forgot that one

Lightness Races in Orbit

that's how real computer users create a screenshot

Jimmy Hoffa

but for a normal user, you click the metro start menu and...it loads you into a space with all programs...

Lightness Races in Orbit

don't give me that "search for your programs" bullshit

I don't want to search for them

Jimmy Hoffa

though alt-tab is indellible in my soul as well. Anyone who uses 3 apps in concert without alt-tabbing between them should be eaten by an angry Oblogon

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:32 AM

I want to be able to see in a list what I have and choose from my available options

enderland

someday windows will have Mac's alt~ functionality

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's all their in metro start bar just like the old one... only difference is it's full screen (though not in the later windows versions because everybody bitched too much)

Lightness Races in Orbit

Windows 7 is pretty excellent, except the networking area is (was, I guess) still really weird

@JimmyHoffa isn't that the fullscreened tile display?

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit yes, except in windows versions beyond 8

Lightness Races in Orbit

> There is no built-in function that will draw a dinosaur.

gold in the opengl tag

Jimmy Hoffa

12:34 AM

but it works identically to the old start-bar... it just looks different which apparently confused the hell out of everyone

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa right, well, that's not a list is it

it's a tile display

@JimmyHoffa um then it doesn't work identically

Jimmy Hoffa

^-- it has the same stuff that shows up in start bar right in the middle, and scrolling to the right you get your "all programs"

Lightness Races in Orbit

in Ux terms what does that have in common with a vertical, alphabetical, folder-grouped list of installed programs?

nothing.

it's an unordered, inconsistent, non-deterministic mess

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's alphabetical if you don't mess with it manually..

Lightness Races in Orbit

having to scroll to see more than 1.2 programs isn't helpful either

Jimmy Hoffa

12:36 AM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit windows start bar does the same...

Ixrec

@JimmyHoffa when I tried this, that was simply not the case; there was no "all programs"

Jimmy Hoffa

either grows further to the right or scrolls in-menu

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa "MeasureIt" comes after "Store" in the alphabet, does it?

@JimmyHoffa no it doesn't...

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec perhaps the machine had no programs?

enderland

you mean glutSolidDinosaur doesn't work? :( — enderland 1 min ago

Jimmy Hoffa

12:37 AM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit they must have moved stuff around

Lightness Races in Orbit

bet they didn't *sulk*

Ixrec

I still say we used very different versions of Win8

there is no way your experience was this different from mine otherwise

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec oh, was it like a netbook or something?

Ixrec

no, a laptop

Jimmy Hoffa

maybe you were running WinRT like on Surface - that's different

ah well, Iduno.. meh. I hardly ever use it anyway so I'm hardly one to talk perhaps. I will still say for touch devices; Metro is great.

but fuck; I like emacs (in spaaaace!), nobody should be listening to me about UI. At all. I'm still unconvinced the mouse isn't some kind of soul trap that will bite me if I use it too much.

whatsisname

12:49 AM

alright I'm out of here

griping session to resume tomorrow

Duga

Hi. Stack Overflow is for programming problems (see stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic). I think this question should be asked on programmers.stackexchange.com. — Turophile 27 secs ago

Lightness Races in Orbit

You joke, @Mysticial, but... Chat has traditionally consumed an awful lot of resources relative to its size, and that's... not getting better. I'm really hoping to avoid having to face that decision. — Shog9 ♦ 6 hours ago

Interesting

@whatsisname bye

@whatsisname cantwait.png

haha gnat

> deletion explanation: because I don't give a shit

facebook.com/reece.monkman/posts/10206919265531746

nn

Jimmy Hoffa

2:37 AM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit no more scotch and coffee antics... I would be forced to toil away my time writing code like I did before SE...the horror; take it back shog, take it back!

Duga

3:36 AM

Programmers.SE is a better place for this question. — Dan Dascalescu 32 secs ago

Mathematics

7:05 AM

@JimmyHoffa that's not possible until I understand atleast one of technology or technique properly, it's really hard to find right training for this though

Lightness Races in Orbit

10:39 AM

more Workplace lols:

10

Q: How to take vacation days within first year without looking like a slacker

So I just got a new job that I really like A LOT, and the vacation policy is quite generous (15 accrued days and 7 floating days). I plan on taking them all next year due to planned outings and music festivals I plan to attend. Obviously I don't plan to take any days off for the next few months a...

"I am allowed to take X days off work. Should I take X days off work?" Sigh.

Duga

11:25 AM

belongs on programmers.stackexchange.com — glenn jackman just now

Duga

11:37 AM

@glennjackman: Opinion questions are no more on-topic at Programmers than they are here. — Lightness Races in Orbit 40 secs ago

Lightness Races in Orbit

did i do it right

Lightness Races in Orbit

12:02 PM

recommended reading: On discussions and why they don't make good questions — gnat 4 mins ago

recommended reading: my lips: stfu!

;)

rofl

this is why it's funny when the US complains about "gas prices"...

Aaron Hall

12:48 PM

I got rid of my car when I moved to NYC, but I imagine we in the USA spend a lot more time driving than those in Europe. After all, we pay by the gallon, you pay by the liter.

Thomas Owens

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I haven't complained about gas prices in like 2 years.

It's about $2.20/gallon now. That's cheaper than a gallon of milk!

Lightness Races in Orbit

1:17 PM

@AaronHall Prices are generally given in terms of volume, so I'm not sure how the volume units affect things?!

Aaron Hall

Just an offhand remark that our units of volume are bigger. If it were discrete units, and you pay by the singles and I pay by the dozen, I'd think I'm probably buying more. I'll bet we drive around a lot more than our friends in Europe. You guys have public transportation everywhere, and everything is closer together.

Jimmy Hoffa

2:05 PM

@Mathematics then why are you concerned with N-Tier? If you haven't got design experience but you're able to formulate the N-Tier conceptually; you're doing fine. It takes time, practice, and most of all, experience to learn to analyze designs for weaknesses and strengths. Try the N-Tier you just put together, and then after you have it put together, try and figure out which parts seem tricky/more difficult than others and think about solutions. That's how you develop a design sense.

The vast majority of my design concepts have come from doing things one way and seeing problems- trying to analyze and classify those problems and then adjust designs to avoid them. That's what all of SOLID is about; rules that avoid problems, which people surely came up with only after running into those problems themselves.

enderland

@AaronHall europe sells gas by the liter, not by gallon yeah

Lightness Races in Orbit

it's both here

> According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration, the average American drives 13,476 miles. (2011)
>
> The average mileage for four-wheeled vehicles [in England] stood at 7,900 miles (12,700km) in 2013, official figures showed. (2014)

so almost half

which is not as big a difference as I would have expected

(both are per year)

enderland

enderland drives 30 miles each way for his commute

Jimmy Hoffa

@AaronHall we are vastly further away from everything, and have significantly worse public transit

I always figured Europeans understood that most of our states are near in size to their countries, but perhaps they don't

Lightness Races in Orbit

your prices seem to be around 64 cents per litre

which is half what we pay

so you'll end up spending almost exactly the same amount on fuel in a year anyway ^_^

@enderland My commute is 125mi each way

25mi each way when I stay nearby for a few days

1.6 metres when WFH :)

enderland

2:12 PM

@JimmyHoffa yeah, my "small" state is still over 50% the size of the entire United Kingdom lol

Jimmy Hoffa

haha $9-10 -> 64 cents? How the hell did you do that? Did you just make a money understanding mistake akin to how I completely fail to know what a p is?

Lightness Races in Orbit

oh hang on I forgot to currency convert

that's only about 42p per litre, so more like a third of what we pay

@JimmyHoffa I think I'm doing this wrong :P And I had * to begin with (which made more sense to me??) hence the wrong result

enderland

I like that pence to usd is one of the few conversions google doesn't automatically do

thanks google

Lightness Races in Orbit

"gallons per litre" doesn't work wtf how do I use this thing

enderland

just approximate with 0.25 gallons/litre

Lightness Races in Orbit

2:15 PM

$2.445 * 3.785 doesn't work either but anyway there it is

@enderland 0.25? where did you get that?

enderland

100 pence = $1.52 USD

so 105 pence * 1.52/100 * 3.76 = $6/gallon for gas

@LightnessRacesinOrbit 1 gallon = 3.78 liters (or about 1 liter = 0.25 gallons, approx)

Jimmy Hoffa

> Drivers log an average of 13,476 miles per year, or 37 miles a day.

Old statistic but still not terribly far off

Lightness Races in Orbit

@enderland oh, the inverse, right soz

enderland

I'm American, I remember the inverse better :P haha

a ballpark is 1:4 ratio

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa quoted that already; can it really have changed that much since 2011?

@enderland US gallons are "unique" anyway so that would be of no use to me :)

Jimmy Hoffa

2:19 PM

Here's a more interesting bit @LightnessRacesinOrbit

fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

note the difference when zoned in on likely-employees

Lightness Races in Orbit

OMG SEXISM

I don't think it's a surprise that 20-64 year olds drive more than other people, employed or not

Jimmy Hoffa

the gender gap is frankly amazing- I would not have expected anything like that

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa just goes to show that behavioural differences ascribed to gender are not always because "discrimination"

show that table to a feminazi

"omg well ye its prob cos the men wont let the women drive lol"

Jimmy Hoffa

> The average mileage for four-wheeled vehicles stood at 7,900 miles (12,700km) in 2013, official figures showed.

^-- UK

guess not soo terribly far off us

Lightness Races in Orbit

yeah I quoted that one too

you literally just repeated my two quotes

12 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit

> According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration, the average American drives 13,476 miles. (2011)
>
> The average mileage for four-wheeled vehicles [in England] stood at 7,900 miles (12,700km) in 2013, official figures showed. (2014)

12 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit

which is not as big a difference as I would have expected

Jimmy Hoffa

2:22 PM

Dec 7 at 16:42, by Jimmy Hoffa

Nov 6 at 20:35, by enderland

2 days ago, by Jimmy Hoffa

yesterday, by MichaelT

Jul 28 '14 at 18:52, by Jimmy Hoffa

<--- Helping.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit when you quote gas prices; are you speaking diesel or unleaded? I thought diesel was way more common in Europe

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa unleaded, though the graph I oneboxed has prices for both

bundling the UK in with "Europe" is not going to work

completely different places, and completely different fuel prices

if you look at the graph I oneboxed, diesel and unleaded track pretty closely here

I don't know what the distribution of usage is but I'd guess about 50:50

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit true 'nuff. My boss at Employer^ was Irish and would get pissed everytime someone would ask him about "the UK" or "Britain" Y'all get mad 'bout shit that's like 20 miles away..

Lightness Races in Orbit

> There were 4 per cent more petrol motors shifted than diesel [in March 2015]

@JimmyHoffa lol

@JimmyHoffa "someone" was lucky your boss didn't blow them up with an IED

Jimmy Hoffa

@LightnessRacesinOrbit no kidding; he had a lot of guns...

Lightness Races in Orbit

omg an on-topic question

Jimmy Hoffa

2:45 PM

@Telastyn did I miss something in my solution? It seemed the clear solution to me, but it feels too easy; am I missing something about your problem?

0

A: PHI, NoSQL, and searching

You could maintain a separate (or as a part of the NoSQL record) store of hashes of the searchable data. Then as queries come in, you just hash the query request information and match on hashes. This makes the data less compromisable than the encryption itself, while maintaining the performance o...

Telastyn

@JimmyHoffa - that can handle full searches, but not partial - "Hof" would not hash sufficiently to match the hash of "Hoffa"

the partitioning is a good idea, but I think at conflict with our requirements.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn multiple hashes? Every 2 characters? :/

Telastyn

yeah, which leaks info about the hashes a bit. I suppose I didn't include that in the question.

Ampt

Happy Coffee Day Progs

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn true enough.. it is a tricky problem. I'll ponder it

Ampt

2:57 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit is this per year?

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland haha who cares. You have to recognize when management does lots of stupid things, and employees take care of themselves and it hurts the employer- The employee has done the manager and employer a service. Consequences are the only things that teach companies, and they have so few of them despite doing terribly dumb things. Whenever my actions cause a company a consequence resultant from their own stupidity; I'm glad I had the opportunity to train them.

Ampt

I put on 33k this year - but I'll be the first to admit that I had a definitely non-standard commute.

Jimmy Hoffa

I don't do heroics when a manager fucks up schedules- I want the manager to learn to handle schedules correctly, he'll think that was correct if everything works out.

enderland

@JimmyHoffa I'm actually not sure that it's a bad thing anyways, they were not exactly reliable and producing quality work anyways

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland of course; the consequence of them doing it to begin with caught up with the manager and he learned a lesson: Don't do that.

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