English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@terdon I remember reading about and discussing some proposals long ago, but SE said all was fine.

Well, they've always made it clear that chat is a second class citizen. They're in the business of Q&A sites, chat is a tertiary concern.

@terdon well is it secondary or tertiary? jeez you make no sense.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Second class citizen, tertiary concern. Can't you read?

a tertiary second class citizen concern

6:05 PM

What a quarternary.

@terdon Good links. Does @GraceNote know about those proposals?

She's a CM, her job is to keep things running smoothly. I don't think CMs are very involved in the technical side of things. In other words, she may well be but implementing them is not part of her job description.

That's my understanding, anyway.

I suppose.

But she didn't seem to think there was any problem with the way chat flagging currently works.

Well, by and large, there isn't. When was the last time something like this happened here?

The main issue, as far as I can tell, is that when it works badly, it works really badly.

Happily, that doesn't occur very often.

@terdon A few months ago, I think.

6:17 PM

@Cerberus Oh? Damn, I keep missing all the fun!

Still, considering the range of topics discussed here, I think we do rather well.

I've seen constructive conversations in this room on any range of very sensitive subjects. The kind of thing that can devolve into a fist fight even in real life and yet, here, was carried out with decorum and respect on all sides. Even when people had radically different positions.

But anyway, it probably happens every time someone flag-bans someone who is currently chatting.

@terdon Absolutely. This is a great room with interesting people. And stuff.

I know what you mean. Nobody (SE included) disagrees that the chat flag system is flawed. It's just the best they've come up with when trying to strike a balance between censorship and safe for work.

I was just wondering whether Grace saw the flaws.

I know, and share, your opinons on censorship but other people are more sensitive and need some kind of tool to protect them.

But if the tool sometimes creates more problems than it solves...

6:19 PM

@Cerberus I don't know about Grace herself but I've seen posts and chat messages from various SE people and they're well aware of the flaws.

It ought to be sharpened.

@terdon Too bad they don't act on those Meta Questions, then.

@Cerberus Backlog, I guess. And, as I said, chat is not their primary concern.

At least it would be nice if they told us that.

But, oh, well.

We need to be able to automatically suspend a user who posts, for example, openly racist comments. Even when no mods or SE employees are around. This means that other people need to be ab;e to validate flags and this, in turn, sometimes leads to the kind of thing that happened today.

@Cerberus It has its flaws. I'm never going to deny the flaws, but at the same time, I'm also going to stand up for the system, especially in situations where I don't think those flaws were the sole problem at foot.

6:21 PM

@terdon But implementing some things from those Questions would improve things already.

@terdon This is a pretty major thing that we've been talking about a lot internally, recently.

Also, Cerb, take into account that there are a few hundred rooms on the SE chat network. With those numbers, I think it's quite impressive how rarely we see chat flag drama.

@GraceNote OK good.

@GraceNote What thing, exactly?

@GraceNote I can imagine. I hang out in that other place from time to time as well. The seedy den of filth and corruption.

We have a wide variety of chat rooms. Many people have many different chains of conversations of many different cultures. Some rooms, the people are more than capable of either discussing certain topics, or know best to avoid them when they know they can't. But some don't, and terrible things happen when they show up.

6:23 PM

@terdon Well, I rather think that is because chances are slight that people stumble upon one of those crude jokes.

@GraceNote So you mean you were talking about SE chat rooms in general, or about this room?

I heard there was a bit of drama in the Scifi room.

@GraceNote Indeed. In fact, given the number of pedantic, headstrong, opinionated, pedantic pedants in this room, I am surprised it doesn't all devolve into chaos more often.

Did I say pedantic?

Sorry about the gif, folks. Wasn't trying to troll or offend, just being silly.

@Cerberus Chat in general

Just wanted to let you know, no harm was intended.

@terdon How dare you call me pedantic, you pedant!! flag

@GraceNote OK I see. I think it's fine most of the time, at least in the rooms I visit regularly.

6:25 PM

(and I didn't flag anything)

@terdon In some ways, pedantry is probably why y'all can handle it. I mean, would you believe that the room of video gamers is often a lot more mature than a great portion of the network, on this particular matter?

Are you calling video gamers pedants??

@GraceNote lol, wouldn't have guessed but I can imagine.

outraged

hands on hips

flag

@CapyStenchbeast What was the gif about?

@Cerberus I am so tempted to make a joke about your having added an extra l there by mistake. . .

6:26 PM

But I can then point at a completely different community of video gamers that I know of, that I had the misfortune of reading, and they're just... absolutely not capable of that same level of acknowledgement and handling.

@Cerberus Michael Jackson eating popcorn. Standard procedure when you see a flag in another room is to go there and post the popcorn gif/picture.

Well, most rooms only have about a dozen regulars or so. I guess it depends on who chooses to join chat.

@terdon Heh. Careful, lest you be fagged into oblivion.

lol

Oops, I missed an l.

6:27 PM

I won't star that, but I'd like to.

It was the image of you with your hands on your hips that got to me.

@CapyStenchbeast Oh, hmm. That doesn't seem very problematic?

@terdon I actually got that from an American woman I used to chat with when I was still in high school.

She always did that.

@Cerberus Someone called me a troll because of it. No biggie on my end, but if some people didn't like it, I apologize.

Meh.

I've been called things far worse than "troll", so I didn't mind. Also, I'm a dog, as you may have noticed.

(This American mother of 4, by the way, named herself Lord's Little Girl and came to pagan rooms in order to try and convert people into Christians, kind of. But she was nice. Then years later she lost her faith and became an atheist.)

6:30 PM

@Cerberus Damn, just when I was about to make a quip about finding both God and a grammar manual, you fix the possesive.

I was going to type lordslittlegirl, which is how she spelled it, then decided against it, and failed.

user174558

I missed all the fun.

Hiya.

user174558

How are you and Mario?

Well.

He found a flower and now he can shoot fireballs.

How is your mother?

6:32 PM

Hi Jasper!

user174558

OK, going for foot surgery soon.

user174558

Hi terdon, not tendon.

:)

Hmm nothing too serious, I hope

@Cerberus WHAT?

6:33 PM

Anonymous

I like how the bushes are just a green version of the clouds.

Hah, you're right!

Ah!

Never noticed that.

Wow, that brings back childhood memories.

6:35 PM

As intended.

@terdon You mispronounced 'pedant'

Ooooh.

@Mitch Huh? OMG! Where are you?

That means war!

Racist!

Etc.!

@Cerberus Calling someone racist is racist, racist.

6:40 PM

@Mitch I had to re-read this sentence several times before I realized it was missing the "LOL" at the end. Then I noticed it wasn't Jasper who said it

@JasperLoy It was no fun.

@Mitch How dare you interpret me so racistically, you third-degree racist!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 lol!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hah, indeed. It would otherwise have been very Jasperite.

@Cerberus aa 1st degree racist and 2nd degree racist are pretty abhorrent. 3rd degree not as much. But accept that you meant to abjure me. So, in response, go to hell.

6:43 PM

That's a short ways.

Anonymous

Oh, so it's like the opposite of burns.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 @JasperLoy could easily have changed his name and icon and no one would know. Except I, respectfully, feel my poop jokes are better.

Anonymous

I can never remember whether nth degree things are in ascending or descending order.

depends on which direction you start off.

@Mitch He's done both before and we always know. There's nobody quite like Jasper.

6:44 PM

@snailboat Yeah, neither can I! In some systems they get stronger, in others they get weaker.

Anonymous

@Cerberus Murder is the opposite of burning.

Hmm.

Second-degree murder?

Hm Hm

I always forget what that is, I think it is premeditated?

@Cerberus no, that's first.

6:45 PM

Ow.

See?

Only with burns I can remember.

first is the worst.

except with burns.

Oh.. I get it now. Yeah 2nd degree murder is less serious than 1st. You really can't kill someone worse.

With teaching certificates, I can never remember, even though I work in education.

they're dead and all already

You can spit on them.

6:46 PM

don't spit on burns, it doesn't really make it feel better and increases likelihood of infections

I thought I'd add something useful to take away from chat while I look for a really good poop joke.

Anonymous

@Mitch I recently discovered the world of poop backronyms.

But saliva has enzymes that kill bugs?

Anonymous

This is probably nowhere near the realm of 'really good poop jokes', but . . .

@snailboat depends on which part it fails on.

Anonymous

It seems like my friends become more likely to make poop jokes rather than less as they get older.

6:48 PM

@Cerberus hm... this needs science to help answer that.

burns self

Anonymous

Maybe it's because everyone but me seems to be getting some kind of digestive disorder.

spits

Anonymous

Me, I can eat anything.

oops, missed.

spits again

The enzymes are to break down carbs and fats.

> The mouth of animals is the habitat of many bacteria, some pathogenic. Some diseases, such as herpes, can be transmitted through the mouth. Animal and human bites are routinely treated with systemic antibiotics because of the risk of septicemia.

Eww. wipes off spit

Also, tuberculosis.

cholera is the other end

Anonymous

Mmm, delicious systemic antibiotics.

6:53 PM

@snailboat There's a world?

@Mitch But your own spit on your own wounds is different.

(of poop backronyms)

Anonymous

Well, a small world.

after all...

@Cerberus I think that is a myth. THere's e coli in your lower intestines that will make yourself very very sick. Just because it comes from your body doesn't mean it's great all around.

> Date: July 24, 2008
Source: Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology
Summary: A report by scientists from the Netherlands identifies a compound in human saliva that greatly speeds wound healing. This research may offer hope to people suffering from chronic wounds related to diabetes and other disorders, as well as traumatic injuries and burns. In addition, because the compounds can be mass produced, they have the potential to become as common as antibiotic creams and rubbing alcohol.

6:56 PM

Then again, I see people with contact lenses put them in their mouths all the time.

> Specifically, scientists found that histatin, a small protein in saliva previously only believed to kill bacteria was responsible for the healing.

@Mitch From what I have heard, that is inadvisable, though not disastrous.

@Cerberus Well, yeah, I don't know what weird things they put in their spit in the Netherlands.

46 secs ago, by Cerberus

> Specifically, scientists found that histatin, a small protein in saliva previously only believed to kill bacteria was responsible for the healing.

This.

It kills bacteria and heals the wound.

Not to mention that licking also cleans the wound.

@Cerberus well, licking a wound will certainly clean it off of foreign material like dirt, or the other animal's saliva. so keeping it closer to home is probably better.

Wound licking

Wound licking is an instinctive response in humans and many other animals to lick an injury. Dogs, cats, small rodents and primates all lick wounds. Saliva contains tissue factor which promotes the blood clotting mechanism. The enzyme lysozyme is found in many tissues and is known to attack the cell walls of many gram-positive bacteria, aiding in defense against infection. Tears are also beneficial to wounds due to the lysozyme enzyme. However, there are also infection risks due to bacteria in the human mouth. == Mechanism == Oral mucosa heals faster than skin, suggesting that saliva may have...

Are you saying small rodents are crazy, huh??

6:59 PM

@Cerberus also komodo dragons are not particularly ferocious. they bite you, and then let you go. They lazily follow you til the bacteria from their saliva produces a blood infection (septicemia) that slows you down (in a couple hours)

Ohh really?

Very nice.

Then they eat you at their (and your) leisure

But are you a komodo?

Anonymous

@Mitch Yikes!

skill patrol

no, but he's part dragon :P

7:00 PM

That's a little forward of you, but, going out on a limb here, no, I am not.

Anonymous

Remind me not to get bitten by a Komodo dragon.

@snailboat I know. They look cute and cuddly behind a glass wall at a zoo. But when that wall is not there...

> Saliva contains cell-derived tissue factor, and many compounds that are antibacterial or promote healing.
Salivary tissue factor, associated with microvesicles shed from cells in the mouth, promotes wound healing through the extrinsic blood coagulation cascade.[3][4][5] The enzymes lysozyme and peroxidase,[6] defensins,[7] cystatins and an antibody, IgA,[8] are all antibacterial. Thrombospondin and some other components are antiviral.[9][10] A protease inhibitor, secretory leukocyte protease inhibitor, is present in saliva and is both antibacterial and antiviral, and a promoter of wound h…

From the Wiki article.

Anonymous

I've been bitten by lots of rodents, though. I haven't died from it yet, thankfully.

Neither have I.

But my friend's father almost died from a cat bite, the doctor said.

7:02 PM

@snailboat don't get bitten by a komodo dragon

Anonymous

Eep!

Anonymous

@MattE.Эллен Whew, thanks! I'd forgotten.

you're welcome!

@Cerberus 1) wikipedia sucks) 2) really wiktionary is the worst and run by illiterates. but 3) that is contradictory from my quote which came from the same effing wikipedia article.

A cat bit him on the street, but there was no blood visible, so he shook it off.

Anonymous

7:02 PM

I don't know what I'd do without English Language & Usage chat.

@snailboat I'd probably get a lot more work done.

skill patrol

me too

@Cerberus except for people maybe. people are idiots.

@Mitch It's not the same article! And your article has some good things to say about wound-licking too. The one remark saying it doesn't work has no references.

@snailboat Yeah, you'd never learn how to use English.

@Cerberus you're just grasping at straws. Also, straws can kill you.

7:05 PM

And the language part is important, too.

In a tornado.

Nobody would understand what the site was about if we removed "Usage" and "Language".

Anonymous

@Cerberus What happened after that? Did he have to get those systemic antibiotics I've been hearing so much about?

Um, or English.

@Mitch Not licking your wounds can also kill you in a tornado.

7:06 PM

@snailboat aren't all antibiotics systemic, unless they're topical?

Anonymous

All the other language sites lost their & Usage. Except Linguistics, which was never Linguistics & Usage in the first place.

Anonymous

And ELL, if that already existed when it happened. I forget.

@snailboat adding it in really wouldn't change things.

Anonymous

@Mitch I assumed it referred to broad-spectrum antibiotics.

@snailboat Probably. His hand felt warm that evening, and he felt dizzy. His wife and daughters insisted that he see a doctor, so he grudgingly complied. The doctor told him he would have been dead if he had waited for the next day.

Anonymous

7:07 PM

But I didn't really know why it said systemic.

And gave him some kind of antibiotics, no doubt.

@snailboat hm.. I never thought of that. You mean there are antibiotics that only attack say..um thinks of an infection well, one bug and not another?

@snailboat Systemic meaning that it affects bacteria throughout your blood system?

Anonymous

@Cerberus Yeah, sepsis is scary!

Quite.

Anonymous

7:08 PM

@Mitch Oh, there are all sorts of antibiotics.

@snailboat considers a vitamin instead

ooh reminds me of a joke..

How did the homeopath commit suicide?

Anonymous

You won't get the same sort of antibiotics for a UTI as for blood poisoning.

Anonymous

@Mitch I don't know, how?

He drank plain water

Here's the better version" How did the homeopath die? He forgot to take his medicine.

I'm working on it.

Hah.

7:12 PM

"Did you hear about the man who forgot to take his homeopathic medicine? Died of an overdose. "

There that's better

Heh.

You skipped this from the wikipedia article: "However, there are also infection risks due to bacteria in the human mouth."

Anonymous

A lot of human mouths are pretty filthy.

Anonymous

Of course, even human mouths that look nice have lots of bacteria.

Anonymous

I wonder, though, if animals tend to keep theirs cleaner.

7:15 PM

@Mitch I didn't skip it: I merely forewent citing it.

Anonymous

Oh, nice! Forewent. Classy!

But, yeah, saliva can infect wounds too, but I get the impression your own saliva normally does not infect your own (superficial) wounds.

skill patrol

@Mitch It's shown in the one-boxing...

@snailboat I had to try something to convince him...

Anonymous

@Cerberus Oral bacteria tend to get into our bloodstream on a regular basis (every time we brush our teeth)

Anonymous

7:18 PM

Our immune systems are pretty good at dealing with it, I think.

Exactly!

Also every time we get a small laesion inside our mouths or noses.

SmokeDetector

7:35 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: Synonyms of " in the case of" by user148042 on english.stackexchange.com

Anonymous

Thanks, SmokeDetector!

8:16 PM

@snailboat Until they aren't.

Anonymous

Sure.

Anonymous

Still, it doesn't stop me from brushing my teeth.

Yeah. And apparently poor dental hygiene and arterial plaque are related in some way.

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: The Incomprehensible Roommmmmmmmm [guten-free-tags] [less-cowbell] [member-since-today] [plugs-of-all-sizes] [strange-mods-before-us]

@Cerberus I had a cat bite last year, and I was on two kinds of antibiotics for 10 days.

Anonymous

8:34 PM

@Robusto Did you have any noticeable reaction?

No. I went to the doc before there was one, since I know what I know.

Dec 12 '14 at 16:59, by Robusto

So my cat bit my arm yesterday. Now I'm on 10 days of antibiotics. Stupid cats.

You can start reading there.

Dec 12 '14 at 18:06, by Robusto

So how do I tell my cat that I love it but I'm just not into pain and antibiotics?

Dec 12 '14 at 19:31, by medica

@Robusto - I gave a 12 year old girl who got a cat bite to her cheek erythromycin*. A day later, she was hospitalized for IV antibiotic treatment with the proper drug. Never made the mistake again (one of the few good things about mistakes is that one learns from them very quickly in medicine.)

Medica gave me advice throughout.

Anonymous

Eep!

9:08 PM

@skullpetrol: Will the real SkullPatrol please stand up?

That would be me :D

You missed the excitement.

Anonymous

I think I joined after the excitement, too.

Anonymous

I think the chat flag system on SE is basically broken, by the way.

@Robusto Did it draw blood?

I know cat bites are risky.

But last I had one, I sucked on it and took the risk, while monitoring it closely. @Mitch

9:15 PM

@snailboat Apparently. What I really have a problem with is people who experienced the injustice of the system coming in here to mete out more injustice to the innocents, i.e., us.

@Cerberus Yep. I have a picture here somewhere.

Anonymous

How long after the bite was that picture?

A day? Two days?

Anonymous

I'm glad you got it taken care of right away :-)

The outer edges of the laceration correspond exactly to the distance between the cat's upper fangs, and the middle one is the tiny middle teeth. So the fangs sank full in.

@Robusto Ah, that looks more serious than my "bite", which was more like a scratch from the cat's teeth.

9:19 PM

Yeah. Bosco had never behaved that way before. I failed to notice that it was in "feral" mode, I guess.

Anonymous

Was he upset about something?

Must have been. I just remember that I was watching television and he was trying to get in my face for some reason. I pushed him away gently, but he got insistent, so I picked him up and put him on the floor. Then as I was easing back he darted up and bit my arm.

The vet said cats his age, adolescence going into adulthood, sometimes try to assert themselves in aggressive ways. So I was not to let him sleep in my lap anymore.

But I've backslid on that one.

Anonymous

@Robusto Oh, I didn't know that

Anonymous

9:22 PM

I've never had a cat.

@MattE.Эллен @Cerberus will note that the cat is using a Mac.

No cat's purrfect

Anonymous

When people make things like that, are they using strings to pull the cat's paws around or something?

I don't know

must be something like that

The Amazing AcroCats - Everybody Wants To Be A Cat

►

Anonymous

9:27 PM

I love cats, though.

Anonymous

A couple I know has a fairly large number of cats. Rescues, I think.

Anonymous

It's fun to visit and see all the cats :-)

Anonymous

I've mostly kept small animals as pets. All sorts. Especially rodents.

Bosco's my fave. He always comes to my lap for nap, if available. That's why I was so surprised when he up and bit me.

@snailboat You won't have those for long if you get a cat.

Anonymous

@Robusto That's one reason I don't have a cat :-(

のせ猫 x かたつむりとクロ　Snail and cats

9:29 PM

We had mice early this year. Solution? Let Bosco go down into the basement. Problem solved.

Also: happy cat. Now he wants to go into the basement all the time.

Anonymous

Although sometimes cats play with small animals without killing them.

Anonymous

►

That is only incidental. If the encounter lasts long enough, the smaller animal dies.

Anonymous

@Robusto My friend's cat cornered a snail who ended up very scared, but the cat ended up not killing the snail.

Anonymous

I don't know if the cat got bored or what.

9:32 PM

Probably didn't recognize it as prey.

Bosco wouldn't let a snail get away like that.

Anonymous

I don't understand the minds of cats.

As evidenced by your use of the word "minds" . . .

StackExchange

Kit Z. Fox has removed Robusto from the list of this room's owners.

Kit Z. Fox has removed Cerberus from the list of this room's owners.

Wtf

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: (no tags)

9:36 PM

What your problem @KitZ.Fox?

You don't even come in here.

Oh, I see @KitZ.Fox has removed me as an owner of this chat.

Well, must be very satisfying for you is all I can say.

Power trip.

@skullpetrol are you related to @skillpatrol?

I don't know which one of you is the one who used to be skull patrol

Looks like she gave @Cerberus the boot, too.

@snailboat coffee

9:40 PM

Well, it's all of a piece, isn't it?

The Acro-Cats meet Colbert

►

@Mitch Saw that. It was funny because some of the cats refused to come out of their crates.

@Matt: Please email me at your earliest convenience.

I've seen cats be very professional. These cats seemed like 3 year old people, totally looking around like they weren't the performance

@Mitch why is there a skull in the bottom right corner?

I felt bad for the 'handlers' because I' sure they expected the cats to perform like normal.

A to the cats 'Holy crap we're on Tee Vee!'

@skullpetrol Oh sorry, that's mine.

9:44 PM

:D

I dont know, I never noticed it, it's just part of the Colbert set?

@snailboat That's OK. They don't care whether you have a mind or not.

Sometimes it seems like they're autistic.

@Cerberus Oh sure, I do it all the time too (or at least did when I was younger and got cuts and scratches and scrapes and stuff; now that I'm older I know not to get into situations that might cause them. I basically don't move)

@Robusto wait, what did you get kicked out for?

@Mitch I'm taking this room off my fav list after what kit just did. See you pal.

Well, wait for an explanation.

Why?

Maybe she did it because Rob is a cat lover. That I would understand.

9:51 PM

Nobody's been kicked.

Cerb too :(

You probably kick puppies.

when you don't have to.

That's not right

Thanks for the chat.

Jasper only just came back

@Robusto OK :)

9:53 PM

@MattE.Эллен I am both

@skullpetrol oh! cool :D

Petrol is my mobile account.

See ya guys. It's been fun.

10:13 PM

*Its

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Few unique characters in answer: Hyphen or no hyphen when modifying an adjective with a quantity? by lkas on english.stackexchange.com

@Mitch My boys have discovered the joy that is Nutella.

Every time we eat it, I think of you.

10:37 PM

@KitZ.Fox Don't tell them where they can get it. Once they realize they can get it themselves, they will be lost to you. forever. sighs

Do you know how to make crepes? (basically pancake mix but a lot thinner). make crepes and spread nutella (thinly of course) on them. Then you will have them forever.

Hmm. I don't, but I could learn. We've been doing chunky peanut butter, fluff, and Nutella on thin-sliced bread and toasting it.

I wish I had a panini maker.

Oh. that would do.

This morning, the little one asked for Nutella and raspberry jam sandwich for lunch.

I said not without peanut butter and he can't have peanut butter at school.