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12:03 AM
oookay, that doubled the length of the answer
er, trebeled.
12:22 AM
we don't frown on long answers
Yay, done with answering new questions and posting edits to my questions. Now time to work.
1 hour later…
1:33 AM
1:48 AM
:2819 Also, the other battletech question (about the mercenaries rules) I definitely would put in the RPG category
:2819 @CRoss For future reference, I am a huge battletech player =) There is a mechwarrior RPG, which is regularly played... that aside, I don't have a problem with wargame questions posted here, personally, I think they belong in the same bandwagon as RPGs. Wargames and RPGs share a common ancestry in game-mechanics and playerbase. Both are a leap of sophistication above board games. Tabletop gaming isn't a big enough industry that we can afford to be too fragmented or too picky. =)
Those got posted out somehow in reverse order... go figure
2:15 AM
:2967 How would you differentate wargaming from board gaming? RPG from wargaming?
:2969 Under most circumstances, I don't ;) There are board games and wargames with RPG elements, and vice versa... the line is exceptionally blurry, which I guess was my point. As a rule of thumb, I would say that any game which clearly doesn't have a roleplaying (acting in-character) element, and doesn't have a complicated enough rules system to warrant needing an online community to ask rules questions about it, probably doesn't belong. For example,
chess clearly doesn't belong. It's a game with a lot of deep strategy worth discussing, but the rules are really simple and well-known
Jovian Chronicles is a game that looks and plays like a board game, but has distinct characters and an RPG theme/element. You are more likely to find answers about it on this site than on a board game enthusiast site, so I think it's reasonable to ask questions about it.
If you are creating your own dungeons for HeroQuest, while that may not be "true" RPG material, I think this site would also be a great resource, and I wouldn't really say it's off-topic
and I really think this deserves a meta discussion =)
I think C.Ross posted one. :)
:2970 Also, just for idle curiosity, does LARPing count? :)
LARPing very obviously and definitely is a type of roleplaying game (it even has role-playing in the name). Although we may shun LARPers because they are creepy and strange, we probably should not exclude them from asking questions =p
:2975 I can't find one, if he did
Oh, found it
there is an on topic/off topic meta discussion q already
Q: What kind of questions can I ask here?

Jeremiah GenestThe FAQ says? Role-playing Games - Stack Exchange is for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. We've had a slight bit of discussion about LARPs that seem to indicate "maybe" but no real LARP activity. We've discussed board games and came to the con...

2:33 AM
I posted the response here:
:2980 How did you link the question in block format like that into chat?
it magically happens
if it's on its own line i think
Q: Are we including LARPs?

Jeremiah GenestIs it okay to ask LARP specific questions?

A: Are questions about role-playing derivative board games off-topic?

RMorriseyI'll say what I just said in the game table chat... I don't have a problem with wargame questions posted here, personally, I think they belong in the same crowd, and the same ballpark, as RPGs. Wargames and RPGs share a common ancestry in game-mechanics and playerbase. Both are a leap of sophist...

It magically didn't happen the first time I posted a link, probably because I used shift+enter to put it on the second line
:2987 Already upvoted on that one
yep. ship's sailed on that though I think - this site's for rpgs. other stuff is good somewhere else but broadening scope just means more that's useless for the core site users.
there's a board game SE that's almost made. should they talk about RPGs there? just doesn't help anyone.
do you think it makes more sense to have a board game SE, an RPG SE, and a wargame SE?
when I browse stackoverflow, I see questions about programming languages and architectures I've never heard of all the time. I pick and choose the ones I know, and peek at the others to see what's there and maybe learn something. I would advocate for consolidation over fragmentation, if it seems like there is a big user-base overlap (which I think there is)
just thinking out loud, I guess
I would bet many of the people on this SE watch the same TV shows too. Doesn't make it on topic.
2:42 AM
I see your point
If you want info on computer games, you go to gaming, you want rpgs, you want board... they are different hobbies
yeah, I guess anybody who knows the hobbies knows one from the other, even if some games straddle the line
maybe you're right
still, I don't think we should make a practice of chasing off people who ask about games that are in a gray area
4 hours later…
6:22 AM
Had a bad night DMing, so y'all will be blessed with a passle of questions :)
7:04 AM
Urrrgh. These DDI rules questions are giving me a headache. Combing through Q&A responses is just painful.
Oh, Pat, I meant to mention that spirit companions HP needs to be rebalanced
:3012 The HP doesn't scale with level and expected monster damage output and becomes a liability in paragon.
er, spirit companion that is. Monsters, according to rules updates, should do average of level+8 (give or take by monster)
right, I was killing it with every attempt tonight
In many ways, I think that, considering that the original is half level +10
it should instead be level+8
so that mobs have a 50/50 to drop it
think I needed to roll a 5 on 2d8 to kill it, kept getting lucky
and take damage of level+3 to preserve that mechanic
But it was immensely frustrating to play a shammy in high paragon
So yeah. Try level+8 for absorption point
That close burst question was more complicated.. I can't figure out what power they were trying to use...maybe tomorrow, most of 'em have gone to bed
7:06 AM
well, I looked up voice in the darkness
and there are a number of large creatures with close bursts
and... no discussion about it.
no, I'm totally cool with the large critter bursting itself for fun and goodness
the power as explained at the table was a ranged power
those have a 1x1 origin square only I believe
:3032 Wait, what? Did I answer the wrong question?
but I can't figure out from the char sheet which power the wizard was trying to use
no, I think the question does not represent what happened in our game
7:08 AM
you're talking about area burst?
maybe...i don't know. Without the exact power its frustrating me
do you have a rough level?
or description? Reverse engineering from DDI seems to be a specialty
dunno if you'll be able to access it, but the character is here - iplay4e.appspot.com/characters/…
wait one
and welcome, this place needs more hardcore D&D4 geeks :)
7:10 AM
Thanks. Though I prefer to think of myself as an Ars Magica GM
thats cool too, had some friends that really liked it, although I never did play
I can strongly recommend it, myself. But it would frustrate many D&D players
it's ... a lot more thinky and doesn't have any nonsense about balance between magi nd mundanes
Um... none of the powers there seem any way contradictory
lol, balance is an interesting thing to shoot for, but I don't think it is mandatory
No, it's not. On the other hand, Ars does have a lovely interal consistency
Huh, thunderball looks awfully cute
yeah, I don't think he used that. Looks like fun
7:15 AM
But yeah, I'm ruthlessly suppressing my urge to tell people with 4e questions to just search the community forums about them.
The problem with the forums is knowing who to listen too.
one jerk with a comprehension problem can keep a thread alive forever
Yeah. and searching the forums is /awfully/ tricky. Which is why I'm happy to cite them
Goodness, but am I posting a lot.
ah, the shaman used Spirit of the Hawk's wind, which triggered my ruling
I did shut down the wizard awful fast as I felt he was bringing up a point already ruled upon and tabled for later
perhaps that was a bit premature...I'll have to ask him what he was up to
:3058 citing the forums is awesome. We get the actual rulings here without all the chaff
In that case, your best bet is with the mount and rider rules
need a linky?
(and yeah, the question should be updated)
you see my conundrum at the table then?
plus I get stupider when I DM... :)
7:20 AM
Oh yeah. I wouldn't want to have to resolve that in a hurry
yes, I would like a link
eh, So do I? it's called fatigue and putting way too much stuff on your mental heap
we've done nada with mounts so far
Because it says "centered"
and not "originating from"
the rules from mount applies
And it depends on what your definition of is... is... ::mutter::
I like that the game tries to define everything, but there are still plenty of funky spots
7:23 AM
did the site just go down again?
argh, it ate my comment for sure
:3082 Time for bed, nice talking with you
:3085 A pleasure, mate.
4 hours later…
11:12 AM
:3003 I tend to agree. Battletech (which is the system that re-sparked this conversation) was designed as a tabletop miniatures war game. It has an associated RPG that was designed with full integration in mind. If we split up questions about the war game engine from questions about the RPG I have to use two sites to get information about one game. That's not just silly, it's a hassle and I'd stop using the site as a result.
:2993 For the reasons I just stated above, the definition of what is 'rpg' is not clear. There is a grey area and I think that we should be using an inclusive definition.
12:22 PM
Wow, people in here at 3am? very exciting
1:12 PM
:3087 You should post your comment on meta
:3087 ...or possibly start a new post
1:27 PM
he did, scroll down in that post
I personally don't mind "crossover" games like Jovian Chronicles getting time here. But I'm concerned about some of the phrasing both of y'all use, about "usually not differentiating between board, war, and RPG" and having to go as far as chess to find something out of scope of this site. If someone who wants RPG info comes here, and get a bunch of wargame threads, they'll leave and rightfully so.
Every other site and forum in the world differentiates. boardgamegeek vs roleplayinggamegeek. Forums make different forums for rpg vs board vs card etc. They're all "games" but that's not a highly relevant similarity. "How do I roleplay a dwarf" has interest to people in many RPGs. "How many feet can my howitzer move in Squad Leader" is not. Wargaming is a huge hobby and deserves its OWN space.
The Internet has a lot of free-for-all forums to discuss whatever topics someone wants in whatever manner they want. that's not what Stack Exchange and specifically this site is about.
1 hour later…
2:35 PM
:3090 Sorry, had a rough night DMing and it generated a lot of questions!
2:51 PM
:3100 Agreed, Besides, there's a whole other SE site for board and card games. I think most Wargames belong there
Now things that are crossovers, battle tech, Savage Worlds, etc, etc should stay
but I don't think WarHammer really belongs here
Oddly, I think I'd be in favor of merging the two sites, but as long as they are separate we need to maintain a distinction
:3102 Sorry? No, that's genuinely exciting! Not that you had a rough night, but that you came here to talk about it
:3106 That's worth discussing, but, I'm not sure it makes sense
people who want to learn about poker (a card game) have 0 interest in RPGs (and sometimes vice versa)
:3108 I think from a traffic standpoint, it might make sense - but I leave that to our corporate overlords to decide
plus I think the other site's scope is already huge
Counterpoint - I have the same interest in poker that I have in Ars Magica
2:56 PM
Why do I get the feeling this will result in World Series Poker - The RPG?
:3112 I think that's kind of one way. I play a lot of rummy at home, but most people who play rummy don't play RPGs
I think the scope is large too, but their problem (I think) will be getting answers to al the questions. There is much fewer popular RPG's than boardgames. Their long tail is huge and finding a SME for each boardgame will be challenge IMHO
I really feared that we wouldn't have deathwatch and d20 modern and DITV, mousegard etc experts, but we seem to find plenty
:3113 I think I'd do a lot better at poker if I could roll a skill check to bluff!
I think we're fine on all fronts currently except traffic.
2:59 PM
and that's improving
So long as we don't mysteriously lose any more key contributors.
we need to generate them faster than we lose them at least :)
:3120 People have other priorities sometimes
This is true.
Rules for merging sites from Merging Season.
1. Almost all X questions are on-topic for site Y
2. If Y already exists, it already has a tag for X, and nobody is complaining
3. You’re not creating such a big group that you don’t have enough experts to answer all possible questions
4. There’s a high probability that users of site Y would enjoy seeing the occasional question about X
3:03 PM
I would add #5 - are the topics close enough that you would tend to trust someone from site X when they answer on site Y (IE is the reputation fungible)
but I think that's implicit in 2
I think 1 and 4 are the problems with what you're suggesting (that and they don't exist yet)
I agree with 1 being problematic, but at least in my circle of friends #4 wouldn't be an issue
Again, I think it's the other direction that would be the problem :-)
anyway, lets focus on getting that site to beta first
I signed up a long time ago (before I found this site I believe)
I know, I checked
3:17 PM
I just noticed this
That is worrying
That's what I was talking about
well we are on an upward trend ... I'll talk to Robert about it
Check out the other beta sites. Worrying about traffic appears common
Either their expectations are too high, or many sites aren't going to graduate
oh sweet...my rep is 2112, can I get it frozen there? :)
3 hours later…
6:56 PM
It's small, but I got us a plug on d20 source: d20source.com/2010/10/got-an-question-ask-rpg-stack-exchange
It's a pretty nice plug too
:3146 yay plugs
I am still trying to hunt down ISBN: 0965842290
Lol, let us know when you find it
I found a /little/ more info on it
7:11 PM
Q: How should we promote this site

C. RossHow should we promote this site, when we reach public beta. So the SEO team has come out with some specifics for how they could help promote. What is the best way to reach the RP community?

This one actually has the teaser on it
I will /find/ this game!
Huh, one person on this site has it listed for trade.
it's hard because the name is so common
which game is this?
were you not around for the Sketch! discussion?
that was a while ago...I did miss max's link just a bit ago though
7:16 PM
From the back of the book:

Pack your pencils and prepare for a journey to the heart of the universe: the planet Sketch, where good and evil are locked in constant struggle, with fame and fortune hanging in the balance!

Play anything you can draw, from stick figures to the Mona Lisa. Create heroes who want to save the city, or villains who want to destroy it. Charge into battle, or gather a group of friends and explore the strange and wonderful world of Sketch. Anything is possible!

Besides, how many games encourage you to play with your crayons again?
:3162 Did you see the trade request at boardgamegeek? rpggeek.com/collection/items/rpgitem/57155?fortrade=1
god ignore me....I'm having a bad chat day
shakes head
so, any brilliant promotion ideas?
I just sent a mail to the guy with a trade copy. :D
Promotion ideas? Not anything I can do for free sadly.
cheap ideas accepted
we have a budget, small as it is
google text ads?
7:22 PM
broad advertising has been declined
I'm not sure whether targeted advertising would be accepted
A corporate sponsorship from Wizards of the Coast! (You need a StackExchange Gold Account to view this answer) (NO. NOOOOOO.)
it worked for Ubuntu ;-)
I'm going to add meta here ... please ignore the rush of questions
1 hour later…
8:49 PM
Please mull over the promotion issue. If you have an idea that would take some money, post it here or send me an e-mail and I'll bring it up with the owners
9:04 PM
Hi @rjstreet
Sorry I stole your "Reign" answer
9:29 PM
one last shaman question
later tonight, I'll be testing the bounds of subjectiveness by asking about a specific encounter of Tomb of Horrors - stay tuned!
2 hours later…
11:33 PM
@PatLudwig recover from that game yet?
:3202 getting there. Driving home from the game I was pretty annoyed with myself for TPKing them again.
indeed, was this your regular game?
yes, it shifted nights again, much to my wife's dismay
I should go DM for your group, there's no way I could kill 14 folks in one night
surely some of you would be smart enough to cut and run :)
yes, we're very big fans of the cut and run :-)
these guys occasionally get the idea in their head that they can go through a wall if only they bash it with their face enough
11:38 PM
the way we often work is:
attempt to break wall with face
(and I'm not nimble enough to support that)
notice face is bloody from wall
run like mad
ignore door
we're just missing step 2
a common weakness in modern D&D players
if I may be so bold; the cure for that is largely what happened to you last night
well...after 10 years of it, I don't think either side is learning anything from the experience any more :)
11:41 PM
I chose not to promise to send only beatable opponents after them while they chose to not consider running very often at all
its a bad combo....but we generally have fun anyways
so naturally I raised them up as minions of the evil power they were trying to kill
and there was much rejoicing...which was odd
so I have to make sure they learn that this is not a good thing :)
apparently they don't understand what it means to be a minion
yeah, it'll be a real problem for any shifter waiting to become bloodied won't it?
I'm looking forward to running something soon ... there's a certain enjoyment that you get from GM'ing you don't from playing
it's like letting people play in your imagination
... or something

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