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12:10 AM
@Optimizer
 
1:04 AM
0
Q: Recursive(?) algorithm design help

tozjerimiahI realise that this is off topic but it strikes me that it might be the type of thing that might do well here... I have a requirement to allow my end users to input formula much like a spreadsheet. I have an array like this: $table = array( 1=>array( "id"=>1, "Name"=>...

 
...wait, since when did I have close vote privileges?
Oh, when I passed 500 rep. Cool!
 
1:53 AM
@El'endiaStarman Yep, beta site privileges are different :)
 
@Doorknob Yeah, it's just been so long since I was so active on a Beta site... :P
 
2:43 AM
I think I want to work on creating an interpreter for SMBF in Python. Anyone know what the best datatype for the tape would be? A bytearray, maybe?
@El'endiaStarman Ohhhhh. SE is renaming to SO? I thought they were changing the site from "stackoverflow" (one word) to "Stack Overflow", so I was confused.
 
♫ Also, recommended music for programming: David Garrett - Thunderstruck (Original by AC/DC)
I'm really into instrumental/orchestral versions of great songs right now.
 
3:04 AM
@mbomb007 Awesome instrumental/orchestral music you say?
 
3:24 AM
0
Q: This question has its ups and downs

PyrrhaInput will consist of the following characters: ^: Go up one v: Go down one ▲: Go up two ▼: Go down two For example, the following input: ^^▲^v▼▲^^v would produce the following output: ^ ^ ^ v ▲ v ▲ ^ ▼ ^ Escape sequences that move the cursor such as \e[B are not allo...

 
3:37 AM
I've just written my very first Brainfuck program. Man, that was painful...
 
Hey I just had a thought. I was planning on using Vim for c++ editing, but can Sublime do it? I'm more comfortable with Sublime, but does it have features like code suggestions / refactoring?
I'm having problems googling for it...
 
@Dennis Now try Snowman ;)
Or perhaps the new esolang that I am currently developing, which is planned to be even harder than Snowman...
 
You can't just parse some C++ and rename a variable, without mostly implementing a compiler.
 
Maybe later. I only used BF because I needed Lenguage.
 
All these birthday challenges are making me want to create a language called Cake, specialized in the ASCII-art department.
 
3:40 AM
@Dennis for the footprint one?
 
Yep.
 
@Geobits No, it gets its speed ups from the fact that several nodes are pruned.
 
@feersum I understand that, but I know Vim can at least do code suggestions. I'm wondering about Sublime.
Lots of people recommend Vim for C++ development, but I haven't heard anyone recommend Sublime...
 
I also want to make a version of Unary that's padded with 1s to a multiple of 8, then condensed into base-256. It'd score less than 8 for sure on the eco-challenge.
 
@Justin Sublime is really excellent.
 
3:49 AM
@minxomat I know. I use it. I just don't know how excellent it is for C++ development.
 
lol, why don't you open a c++ file and see what happens?
 
I was gonna say the same thing
 
@feersum No I don't know if you understand. I know sublime supports C++ files. I don't know how well it allows one to develop C++, though. For instance, Visual Studio allows one to see documentation / method signature on mouseover; what plugins does Sublime have?
 
You could just wing it and see what you come across...
 
Open a file and mouse over something.
 
3:52 AM
There is a multitude of plugins for IntelliSense / Calltips
 
@feersum I don't know if you understand Sublime. Sublime wouldn't do that normally; you'd have to install a plugin.
 
Then you shouldn't ask if Sublime "supports C++", you should ask what are the best C++ plugins.
 
James Brooks (the best Sublime plugin dev I know), is currently working on Intellitip, but you'd have to build a new Intellidoc file for C++. Anyway, the plugin works great (I use it with PHP): github.com/jbrooksuk/Intellitip
 
@feersum I agree with you. I asked in an improper manner.
@minxomat Wow, just looking at the screenshot, that is rather impressive.
 
4:23 AM
Aww I can't get pmccabe to work for windows. Sucks.
 
5:06 AM
@minxomat Do you have any favorite sublime plugins? I'm slowly acquiring mine.
 
It was a long time since I last used a plugin with Sublime ^^
 
Really? You use raw sublime?
 
Actually, I didn't use Sublime at all during the last month(s). I sometimes use it on my servers to edit AutoIt code (because there is no other AutoIt-SH editor for linux). But I mostly use NP++ or Scintilla now ^^
 
Okay
 
Or VSC if I'm working on C code.
Cause it's cross-platform.
 
5:30 AM
@Dennis You should try the self-modifying kind. I find it more fun and less painful.
 
I needed Brainfuck code to post an answer in Lenguage/Unary. I don't think that exists for SMBF.
Nice work on the Just repeat yourself, by the way.
I thought I had that one in the bag, and now I'm third...
 
@Dennis Thanks. And no, it doesn't, but it's still fun.
 
It certainly looks interesting.
But today, I needed source code made entirely of null bytes:
2
A: Source code ecological footprint

DennisLenguage, 0 Output is in unary, since Lenguage/Brainfuck has no sane way of printing integers in base 10. The actual source code contains 223605599678244445677917099137136598260445583049693744517915142254904733730402123327574095535587581070850157973202762135155027962550827178026323991235020...

 
6:17 AM
@Dennis Well that is incredible :D
 
And certainly unbeatable. :P
 
Definitely! ;)
 
6:56 AM
Is there any reason why our site is called Code Golf & Programming Puzzles in Area 51?
1702
Code Golf & Programming Puzzlescodegolf.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for code golfers and for those who interested in code golfing (from beginners to experts), and programming puzzles.

Currently in public beta.

 
Somebody sorted it?
3
 
Hello
 
7:14 AM
Hi!
 
God, just coded 6 hours straight...
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Super ChafouinPerform a Pluto flyby Congratulations ! You've just been hired by the Nasa to work on the new Horizons 2 project. Sadly, there had been huge budget cutbacks recently, so the top management has decided to fake the whole planned Pluto flyby (as they did for the moon landings in the 70s). Your ta...

 
7:57 AM
I can't believe I got this to work
0
A: Make me a scrolling marquee

undergroundmonorailpb, ⌈(216 + 3)*0.9⌉ = 198 +3 bytes for interpreter flag d=1 c^w[Y=-1]{w[B!0]{>}t[X]<[X-79]w[X!0]{t[T-1]w[T=-1]{t[0]}<}vw[T=0]{^w[B!0]{t[B]^b[T]>v}<[X]^w[B!0]{t[B]vw[B!0]{>}b[T]<[X]^w[B=0]{>}b[0]>}v}}^w[1=1]{<[X-80]w[X!0]{<t[B]vb[T]^}w[B!0]{t[B]<b[T]>>}<[X]<t[B]w[B!0]{>}<b[T]} A pretty horribl...

 
8:53 AM
I can't make a meta post CW after I posted, right? Could a mod do that for meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/5243/… if possible?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:12 AM
@mbomb007 You might also like Therion then: youtube.com/watch?v=NiaE8lA65zw
 
10:32 AM
@BetaDecay it's implied by "Apart from your choice of newline, the output should look exactly like this:" but you might want to explicitly say "Write a program that prints the decimal numbers from 1 to 100 inclusive." (without emphasis)
@PeterTaylor Are you around? I have a CS question and I think you might at least be able to point me to some literature or keywords to search for. :)
 
0
Q: Need help on what programming course i should study

Bashi just finish High School, and i find computer programming interesting, but i actually don't know which course on the programming i should study, i have being doing lot of research online and sometimes the answer i got confuse me the more, i came across Stack Exchange were professional programmer...

 
 
1 hour later…
11:50 AM
@MartinBüttner Oh okay
Gah, just got back from Saturday testing
 
12:24 PM
Oh, you said you are having your exams right now?
 
No, he likes to test Saturday.. Are they as good as Sundays??
 
Ah, well and how does this particular saturday compare to the saturdays from previous years with 31 as prime factor?
 
 
2 hours later…
2:17 PM
This iceberg's parents melted.. now he fights global warming. http://t.co/3NYGZTt8yI
 
3:00 PM
You should post it in reddit.com/r/Pareidolia
 
3:11 PM
@randomra Done. I don't think you can post a CW question either. This is probably because making a question CW affects not only the question itself; all answers will be CW as well.
 
actually, why are people not posting bounties as an answer to that post ?
that way you can even sort them by activeness/popularity etc.
completed bounties could be deleted (just like sandbox)
 
3:36 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PatlatusThe shortest code for testing reliable password ( for Vault Password Rank 3 puzzle ) Introduction I started playing Empire of Code recently, and there was some challenge. The player is supposed to write a code on a python or on javascript to detect if passed string is reliable password, that is...

 
@Dennis Are we allowed to assume leading zeroes in the input integer for cluster size?
 
Like 03? No, that wasn't the intention.
 
k, just checking
 
I am curious how that would help though.
 
For languages which can only read one char at a time you can guarantee reading, say, two chars for a two digit number
 
4:14 PM
@flawr Not exams, just general testing
 
4:51 PM
@BetaDecay What is the difference then?
 
5:08 PM
@flawr Well tests are less important than the end of term exams because they only ask you about what you've done in the last few weeks
 
>
I also want to make a version of Unary that's padded with 1s to a multiple of 8, then condensed into base-256. It'd score less than 8 for sure on the eco-challenge.
I just realized I've re-invented Lenguage, but not very well...
 
5:32 PM
@BetaDecay Thanks, I always thought those words were used interchangeably!
 
@Dennis thanks
@Optimizer more terse, easier to manage, didn't think about that
 
can we at least migrate now?
 
@Optimizer is this a question to me? what to migrate?
 
5:48 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

flawrImplement k-means code-golf Introduction The k-means-algorithm is an algorithm for finding the means of a given number k clusters of a given set of vectors n-dimensional vectors. The concept is quite simple: Take k random vectors from the given set and assume these are the (preliminary) m...

 
6:29 PM
@flawr This is pretty good: youtube.com/watch?v=R_h9mpxh-EE
 
@flawr I haven't listened to Therion since high school. Such nostalgia!
 
I think my stomach is finally better :D
 
@flawr Nice work on this but I was tempted to -1 for the message. :P
A little late, but congratulations to @Dennis for passing 40,000 rep!! :D
7
 
6:54 PM
hey, where is my congratulations for reaching 21169 rep?
I know it doesn't look like, but its really really difficult to get exactly that rep!
 
Congratulations to @Optimizer for getting 21,169 rep!! :D
5
How's that?
 
it'll do
 
@flawr ...man, I'm a sucker for female vocals. They instantly improve almost any classical/epic instrumental song for me.
2
 
7:25 PM
Oh hey, 2 of my 3 challenges so far have been tweeted by Codegolf.SE :)
And the third had its title edited by @AlexA. I now find (thanks! ;) )
 
@flawr Well they change from school to school, but they're the general definitions :)
 
7:45 PM
@BetaDecay No now that you've told me it makes totally sense=)
 
@El'endiaStarman same here
 
@El'endiaStarman I've got this one here on my goosebumps playlist (without female vocals)
And this one too (with female vocals)
 
@aditsu From the title, I'm guessing this is a counter example. There's a reason I put the word almost in my statement... :P
 
I'm tempted to flag this as offensive.
 
7:48 PM
@flawr "goosebumps playlist" <- I like that idea.
 
rats, I should have chosen a clip with a less obvious title :p
 
@flawr 2nd one is interesting
 
@flawr the judges already did
 
@DankMemes Then maybe you'd like this too? youtube.com/…
 
seen the first one already
 
7:51 PM
@El'endiaStarman How about we start a music chat room?
 
Interesting that you guys seem to like the same sort of music I do. I was into classical instrumental stuff 2 years ago and now I've shifted more to EDM
 
I never said I like the stuff I've posted here=P
 
@MartinBüttner I'm back.
 
@flawr then why'd you post it?
why'd you say it gives you "goosebumps"?
 
7:57 PM
@aditsu HAHA Forget You at the end!!
 
@DankMemes Well on the other hand I also never said that I do not like it=P
 
Dang, I cannot get this ASCII-doughnut thing to work :P
I mean, COME ON! I just want to get the outer circle drawn!
 
lol
was considering doing that, decided it's too much debugging
seems I was correct
 
Does anyone here know postmodern jukebox?
 
postmortem of a jukebox?
 
8:03 PM
@DankMemes Apparently
 
One pianist that arranges modern pop music in twenties ragtime style=)
 
The weird thing is that if I comment out this one line that hardly does anything, the debug info is way different
AND that debug info makes no sense at all...
 
I'm curious, why is this room called "The Nineteenth Byte"?
 
@aditsu oh jeez, somebody actually starred that @_@
 
8:08 PM
Not me :P
 
In golf, the nineteenth hole is a slang term for a pub, bar, or restaurant on or near the golf course, very often the clubhouse itself. A standard round of golf has only eighteen holes, so golfers will say they are at the 'nineteenth hole', meaning they are enjoying a drink after the game. The concept is similar to Après-ski in skiing. The 19th hole on miniature golf courses is often a hole in which if a hole-in-one is scored, one receives a free game. == References in mediaEdit == The golf stories of author P. G. Wodehouse, which are narrated by his character, the Oldest Member, discuss ...
 
@DankMemes It's a play on that ^
 
ah I see
 
Why can't we minus-star?
 
8:09 PM
Minus-star?
 
Like -1, but on chat messages, I believe
 
downstar
 
How would that work? A separate board for the worst chat messages?
Removing stars is possible though.
 
when you're a mod ^
 
8:11 PM
But that means that you remove a star that you've already given.
 
@aditsu or a room owner
 
@flawr ....meh. I don't like dubstep very much, and what I heard in the first 1:18 was not female vocals, but lyrics. Which, incidentally, is also an issue with @aditsu's counterexamples. They're not really vocals.
 
Hey, I got my code to stop crashing and actually produce some sensible output :D
 
8:19 PM
ok I rescued the starboard, time to sleep now :)
 
Idea for : Print Hello World while using the largest amount of standard loopholes as defined in the relevant meta question. Your score is the amount of loopholes you use
 
That sounds waaay too subjective.
 
what prevents everyone from using them all?
 
Most loopholes has been done before.
Not successfully, I might add.
 
8:26 PM
is duplicate question a loophole?
 
@Optimizer You mean that question already exists?
 
Nowadays, is it even possible to write a good code-bowling question, or would they all be closed?
 
anything could happen
 
@DankMemes Some of these are completely opposed to each other. For example, you got "no empty answer" and "no external sources". I don't think you can have an external source with an empty answer
 
o o o o
 o o o
  o o
   o
Do some code-bowling with that
 
8:29 PM
make a programming language that executes an empty program by downloading code from the internet
 
random code, at that
 
The programming language would have to be part of your answer then
 
that's also a loophole
so no
it won't be
 
or "no home-made programming languages"
could be the only loophole that's actually enforced
 
Idea: how many standard loopholes can you stuff into the rules of a challenge?
 
8:31 PM
I just think it could be an interesting challenge to see what people can come up with
 
maybe
I feel like you'd get downvoted big time though
2
 
@DankMemes Do people hate loopholes that much?
@ETHproductions what do you mean, "loopholes in the rules of a challenge"?
 
no, I just think people wouldn't like a code-bowling challenge that much
 
@DankMemes Is there another criteria we could judge by that isn't bytecode, though?
 
@PeterTaylor duh-duh dunn duh-dunn.
 
8:34 PM
I guess don't tag it code-bowling, tag it popularity contest
 
@Nate "How many loopholes can you require in the rules while still making an interesting challenge?"
 
@DankMemes So popularity contest is more accepted than code bowling?
 
@PeterTaylor Don't know if your still around, but otherwise I'll just leave the question in the ping... Basically, I'm trying to figure out if do-while is computationally as powerful as while-do. Or in other words, whether languages can be TC which allow for looping but not for skipping of code entirely. Or specifically, if BF would still be TC if [...] was a do-while loop.
 
well actually, if you're judging by number of loopholes rather than longest code, the correct tag would be code-challenge I guess
 
And in general, how you'd prove that something is not TC.
 
8:37 PM
@DankMemes The concept itself though: "going wild with loopholes this one time". Is that something interesting?
 
definitely
 
Because if that won't work, this question is dead in the water
I'll quickly make a mock-up in the sandbox and link it.
 
@MartinBüttner Ah, I think you mentioned that earlier.
 
Yeah, I did but I wasn't sure whether you'd seen it, and I didn't get a conclusive response from anyone else.
In the case of BF it's clear that not every BF program can be translated to this new dialect, but it's not immediately clear whether a TC subset might be translatable.
 
If we take mu-recursive functions, loops basically correspond to mu.
 
8:40 PM
"Download a made-up language off the internet that runs a zero-length program which prints hard-coded output from the filename"
 
@ETHproductions genius
 
And you have to test from 0 anyway, so I think that works.
It's not BF, buf...
 
also make sure to use cyrillic lookalike characters and space-prefix everything so it's not visible in the code box
and if people copy each other's original answers they get an increased score
 
Anyone know if there's an OEIS for the minimum sum you can get by arranging N minesweeper mines?
e.g. for N = 3 I think it's 18:
111
2x31
2xx1
1221
 
@PeterTaylor I'm really wondering how you'd do the translation in BF though when it's possible. You can't just replace [f] by f^-1{f} (where {} is the do-while loop) because not every computable function has a computable f.
 
8:50 PM
@DankMemes I'm actually going to discourage using that loophole. Because otherwise we'll have a daisychain of people copying each other's answer. Also, it's basically plagiarism, which is a REAL legal minefield that I want to avoid.
 
It's not plagiarism. All user-contributed content on SE is licensed under CC-BY-SA, which means you can copy it if you credit the original author.
 
12321
1xxx1
12321
sum = 20
@Calvin ^
 
@Doorknob even if it's not plagiarism, I want to avoid a massive influx of "A copied B copied C copied D copied E copied F" where A eventually gets 5 more points than F with the same code.
 
no no
only the first copy in the chain gets the point
otherwise the score is the same since it's already a copy
ban the loophole though, and other than that I think every loophole is ok to use
 
@ETHproductions But that's not the minimum
 
8:56 PM
Oh, minimum? I read maximum
duh
For maximum, I suppose you could do this:
 
Max is all cells with ones around them I believe
 
111111111
1x11x11x1
111111111
sum = 24
 
@DankMemes Should I ban it completely, or discourage it in that F gets his own points, E gets F's point plus the point for the copy, but A through D only get 2 points (1 for their copy, 1 for the copy before it)?
 
I think just disallow copying
I wouldn't upvote copies anyway
and they'd just spam the answers list
the point is to have creative ways to use loopholes really
 
8:59 PM
^
 
@DankMemes How about: "you only get points for loopholes triggered by your own answer"? That way, people can copy, but it only gives them 1 point, for copying.
That makes it an option, but people realistically won't use it unless they find an extremely complicated way to copy the answer
Because I'm hoping to see an answer that holds all 25 loopholes which are currently mentioned in the meta
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Nate KerkhofsHello, Loophole Abuse! Assignment Print the following string: Hello, World! Gimmick you know the meta post "Loopholes that are forbidden by default"? Yeah, those don't apply here. In fact, you're actively encouraged to use as many as possible and combine them in weird ways. the more you use...

Please direct any comments to that answer
 
I gave you an upvote but I'd still prefer if you banned copies
 
1
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Nate KerkhofsHello, Loophole Abuse! Assignment Print the following string: Hello, World! Gimmick you know the meta post "Loopholes that are forbidden by default"? Yeah, those don't apply here. In fact, you're actively encouraged to use as many as possible and combine them in weird ways. the more you use...

 
@DankMemes I banned it.
Apparently, there has been something similar.
-5
Q: SPCL (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Loopholes)

AlchymistI am a founder member of the above society. Maybe that's why people keep telling me I'm special. I want to raise the profile of loopholes. I am looking for a program which exhibits as many loopholes as possible in as few characters as possible. To be precise, I seek a program satisfying the f...

 
9:17 PM
That's the question I had in mind when I said:
51 mins ago, by Dennis
Most loopholes has been done before.
The scoring is subjective: one person might think that an answer "violates" a loophole, another doesn't.
Which is bad, because all challenge need an objective winning criterion.
 
@Dennis Is there a way to fix it, though? How about ?
 
How about : answer with most negative score wins.
4
 
If I were you I would look at the fact that the previous question is on -5 and walk slowly backwards.
10
 
Maybe, we can count and answer as breaking a rule if at least some other users agree that it breaks a rule (for example, confirming violated loopholes as a comment)
 
@PhiNotPi I'm confused. Every loophole has a clear sentence that describes what it is. How can that be subjective?
 
9:24 PM
I'm proposing a solution to Dennis's concerns above.
 
@PhiNotPi Ah, then my comment was aimed at @Dennis, not at you
I really want to salvage this question though. I'm hopeful that there is a way to get this challenge to work
@Dennis How can 2 people interpret "Using the program name to store data" differently?
 
I think it might work well as a popularity contest
 
@TreFox I'm not sure how popular popularity contests are, though.
 
It's hard to make a good popularity contest, but if you do then it usually will be massively popular. Look at the top voted questions - the majority of them are popularity contests.
If you edit your question I think it would make for a great popularity contest. I love the idea.
 
Often popularity-contest question are downvoted, requiring an "objective" winning criterion. But there is no reason for this. Let me explain where I come from. There are yearly contests all over the world with thousands of participants called "Demopartys". The objective is quite simple: Write a demo (any kind of real-time animation) and whoever gets the most votes wins. It is a concept that clearly works - *with real world prices*. Everyone knows it's about the fun and the cleverness of the entries - not about winning.
 
9:38 PM
@NateKerkhofs If my code downloads a file from the internet and saves it with a specific name, does that count? What if my code renames itself?
@PhiNotPi That may be objective, but 1 user out of 1,000 viewers is not a good metric.
@minxomat Popularity contests always have an objective winning criterion. Simply reshaping a problem that cannot be scored otherwise usually leads to contests that are too broad though, so they get closed anyway.
 
@Dennis Would this be too broad though?
I don't even know what "Too broad" means in the context of PCG.
 
If the only restriction is print Hello, World!, I'd say it is.
 
@Dennis What can we do to save it? A different challenge?
 
@Dennis The point I'm making is that a challenge doesn't have to have an "objective" winning criterion to be a great challenge.
With great entries ^^
 
@minxomat I completely agree. It seems like this is a good question that would work well as a popularity contest, and closing it because it has to have an objective winning criterion would just be rules for the sake of rules.
 
9:45 PM
> rules for the sake of rules.
Agreed.
Though I'm not talking about this question in particular - it is a good example.
 
9:59 PM
@minxomat If there's no objective winning criterion, it's off topic. It may be a great challenge nevertheless, but it's not on topic on this particular website.
 
@Dennis There is an objective winning criterion though: the score it gets from the userbase
 
@TreFox As I said before, most votes is an objective winning criterion. That's not the issue here. The problem is that print Hello, World! doesn't have any restrictions. So I get brownie points for saving some data in the file's name. I don't have to do anything to accomplish that, I just do it.
20 mins ago, by Dennis
@minxomat Popularity contests always have an objective winning criterion. Simply reshaping a problem that cannot be scored otherwise usually leads to contests that are too broad though, so they get closed anyway.
 
@Dennis Instead of saying "this won't work", could you think about a way that this CAN work without devising an entirely new challenge to complete?
How about "write a quine"?
The main reason I chose -print Hello, World!- is because it's something that everyone knows how to do and is rather easy to pervert
 
@feersum Boring. @BetaDecay would win every contest then.
 
I'm not saying that the whole idea of incorporating loopholes in a challenge is flawed, but print this and use loopholes doesn't have enough restrictions. The quine idea is a step in the right direction, but still quite trivial to achieve. I'm certain that this would be an entertaining challenge; I just don't think it's a good fit for this particular website.
There has to be some component that makes adding more loopholes increasingly more difficult. As it is, it's trivial to post an answer that violates all loopholes.
Program length is usually a good choice, but only because loopholes are forbidden. So it won't work here.
 
10:09 PM
@Dennis How about "write a program that takes 2 integers and adds them together"?
I don't want something that's hard to write even just as a challenge
 
It's not about picking a task, it's about adding restrictions to achieve it. I can literally take any piece of code and modify it to add loopholes.
Take "fetching the actual code from an external source". It doesn't matter if I have to print Hello World!, add two numbers or write a quine. That's always trivial to achieve.
 
Oh, I get what you are saying
 
@Dennis Okay. So a restriction that makes it increasingly harder to add loopholes?
How about execution time?
your code must run in less than X seconds
 
When you allow loopholes, most restrictions can be easily evaded...
 
@NateKerkhofs Yes, that's what we need to make it challenging and less broad.
 
10:12 PM
We just need to find the right restriction then
 
Which will be very hard, since loopholes are meant to work around restrictions.
 
the issue is that we also cannot use the loopholes themselves as part of the challenge because of the subjectivity
 
Even if we could, we'd still need restrictions to make adding them challenging. Otherwise, all answers will have a perfect score.
 
How about combining it with ?
 
No use if you can fetch the actual code from the internet or store it in the file's name.
 
10:21 PM
Even if the restricted source includes all external files as well?
I'm talking about: if your program uses code from the internet or in the file name, that is also included.
 
It's not really restricted source then, but that could make things more interesting.
 
How about: your code must work in reverse as well as forward, but it can't be a palindrome?
 
How would that apply to code that is not source code?
 
If the code is external, it needs to work in both ways as well
 
What's going on?
Oh I see
This is about this challenge right? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…
 
10:27 PM
To me, any code that's involved in the program is source code, whether it be compiler quirks, language specs, external source, the file name, execution flags,...
 
I'll think about it. I have to go now.
 
@Dennis I have to go now as well, it's getting late. Maybe we can talk some more tomorrow?
@quartata Yes it is. I'm hoping to get it to work.
 
Hmm I don't think this is honestly a good fit for pop-con seeing as how even with loopholes allowed most of the answers aren't going to be that creative really
People are just going to use MetaGolfScript or Stuck
 
To everyone: If you ever outgolf me in TI-BASIC on an answer that has at least 3 upvotes, and post it at least a week after I stop editing, I'll award you a bounty.
 
It might be good for code-bowling though
 
10:30 PM
@NateKerkhofs Sure. Feel free to ping me. If I have time, I'll join you in chat.
 
@flawr :D
 
@quartata Code-bowling isn't well-liked. Code-challenge won't work because we can't agree on what a loophole is
 
Hmmm
 
@quartata I'm currently writing an addendum that states that your code must also work in reverse without being a palindrome
 
Ah that's a good one
Make sure to ban comments though
 
10:32 PM
@quartata comments are a loophole as well
 
Ohh I see what you mean
And now I see the problem
Since the "standard" loopholes really don't govern all the loopholes
The problem is that the comments make it really too trivial. That won't be a problem in pop-con though
 
Okay, the challenge has been amended
I'm off to bed now. Cya in about 8-12 hours.
 
-[------->+<]>--.[--->+<]>++..-----------.-[--->+<]>-.+[----->+<]>+.-----.--.+.++++++++++++.[-->+++++<]>-.
 
I wrote a very short Haskell FizzBuzz!
 
Ooh
 
10:44 PM
The shortest publicly available one on the internet, it seems.
0
A: 1, 2, Fizz, 4, Buzz

MaurisHaskell, 85 bytes main=mapM(putStrLn.f)[1..100];f n|d<-drop.(*4).mod n=max(show n)$d 3"Fizz"++d 5"Buzz" Getting closer to henkma's 82 bytes, but I'm not quite there yet. d = drop.(*4).mod n is key here: d 3 "Fizz" is drop (n `mod` 3 * 4) "Fizz". This is "Fizz" when n `mod` 3 is 0 and "" other...

 
Wow that's cool looking
Now if only it was possible to golf like that in Java...
 
You could create your own language that transpiles to Java. That's always fun @quartata
 
Like ArnoldC!
snickers
But seriously I might try looking into golfing in Scala or Groovy
That way I can use my MLG Java skills in a less verbose language
 
I believe 82B might use take+drop+gcd+"FizzBuzz".
 
BTW Mauris why weren't you the first person to post a GS2 answer?
I was kinda surprised really that it got posted so fast and that you weren't the person that posted it lol
 
10:50 PM
Mitch is better at gs2 than me, so he deserves it ^^
 
GS2 (to me at least) is like a sack of gold surrounded by an electric fence -- it has incredible value inside but every time I try to use it I just get electrocuted
It's the only golfing language that has made intuitive sense to me so far though, so I'm going to keep trying until I master it.
I also like how its source code is short enough for me to go through it if there's something I don't understand :P
 
@quartata Dig a tunnel.
 
That's what I'm trying atm.
The soil is pretty hard but I'm getting there.
Need.... gold....
Hey I just thought of a challenge
 
Yeah, I intentionally tried to keep the source code very accessible. No unnecessary classes, lots of inline logic so you know where to look.
 
And comments too!
 
11:04 PM
If you know Python, it's like programming with a set of 256-odd stack-based snippets you can piece together.
 
All I have to do to look up a function is /MNEMONIC
 
I should probably write more comments than I already do. ;-;
 
Nah nah don't worry there's plenty
 
The #= things are clever. They serve as nice "header" comments, but gs2c also uses them to compile mnemonics into bytes.
 
Really? Huh.
That's pretty cool actually. I didn't know that.
 
11:05 PM
Yeah, it just looks for lines in gs2.py containing #=, then does some regex magic. So if I add or change a command in gs2.py, the mnemonic compiler needs no changes at all.
(Maybe that should be documented.)
 
@PeterTaylor Do you think the do-while question would be something for CS.SE? I tried searching the site for it, but didn't have much luck (but I feel like there might be some alternative formulation that has been asked already).
 
@MartinBüttner What's this?
 
3 hours ago, by Martin Büttner
@PeterTaylor Don't know if your still around, but otherwise I'll just leave the question in the ping... Basically, I'm trying to figure out if do-while is computationally as powerful as while-do. Or in other words, whether languages can be TC which allow for looping but not for skipping of code entirely. Or specifically, if BF would still be TC if [...] was a do-while loop.
 
11:56 PM
@MartinBüttner The general question seems too vague to be answerable, but I think I can write a program to translate BF
 
@feersum I'd be very interested in how you'd do that.
 
I'm currently thinking to put N auxiliary cells before each real cell, where N depends on the maximum nesting depth.
 

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