The Nineteenth Byte

Doorknob

1:33 AM

)1vn100nR:du*_/3NmO0eq)(#5NmO0eq}~(~%@bo(%nO?_/)#%@{%@tS?)aRsP@@"Fizz"_aRsP\"Buzz"aRsP;aM

^ FizzBuzz in the esolang I'm working on.

Thomas Kwa

1:51 AM

Interesting.

Doorknob

I was trying to make it intentionally verbose but the cat program ended up being 9 characters anyway >_<

New Main Posts

3:03 AM

0

Q: How can I use Open API in OCX in Python?

I'm having trouble calling an API that stock company have given. They have launched open api in OCX extension. And so, I'm willing to use it in Python and tried to use it with win32com module for Python. The open api file name is "KHOpenAPI.ocx". I tried -----------------Python code-----------...

python

Phase

3:24 AM

@Doorknob Ostrich?

Should I do a double based stack or a object based stack for the language I'm working on? Doing an object based one allows for better string manipulation, but a double based stack could be better for character manipulation.

Thomas Kwa

It's somewhat sad that our posts-that-belong-in-Stack-Overflow-per-day is significant compared to our posts-per-day.

5

luser droog

5:35 AM

(dr.nick voice) Hi, everybody!

I wrote a new answer.

0

A: Emulate an Intel 8086 CPU

C - 319 lines This is a more or less direct translation of my Postscript program to C. Of course the stack usage is replaced with explicit variables. An instruction's fields are broken up into the variables o - instruction opcode byte, d - direction field, w - width field. If it's a "mod-reg-r/m...

That's right. 1/10 - 1/20 the size of everybody else's. Too bad it's not a codegolf contest. :)

New Main Posts

5:47 AM

0

Q: Antiferromagnetic ordering

Antiferromagnetism is what IBM researchers used to jump from a 1 terabyte disk to a 100 terabyte disk in the same amount of atoms. In materials that exhibit antiferromagnetism, the magnetic moments of atoms or molecules, usually related to the spins of electrons, align in a regular pattern wit...

code-golf ascii-art graphical-output

New Main Posts

7:14 AM

0

Q: Roll my D&D character's ability scores

In Dungeons and Dragons, some of the most important atributes of a character are the ability scores. There are 6 ability scores, for the six abilities. The abilities are Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. When determining the scores for a character, I use the f...

code-golf game random

Lembik

10:40 AM

hi all

Sp3000

10:56 AM

Hi Lembik

Optimizer

are we waiting for a star on his "hi all" before continuing the discussion ?

Sp3000

I think chat's just in its usual quiet hour

Lembik

yes! :)

New Sandboxed Posts

11:25 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Backhanded^H^H^H^H^H^Hspaces On some terminals, pressing backspace generates the control code ^H, or ASCII code 8, to delete the previous character. This gives rises to a snarky idiom where backspaces are feigned for comedic effect: Be nice to this fool^H^H^H^Hgentleman, he's visiting from c...

Optimizer

@xnor post it. Its a pretty straight forward one .

Lembik

does anyone know of any discrete optimization tools I can use from python?

I want to maximise a function on matrices (the determinant of coure)

Doorknob

@Phase github.com/KeyboardFire/ostrich-lang

(very similar to Golfscript, but with a REPL and a few missing features/functions (floating point, regex, etc))

randomra

11:56 AM

@Optimizer patience :)

(how long in CJam?)

Optimizer

I am not saying because I have an answer this time.

The question actually is straight forward

I don't have one, but I can guess that it would be around 12-15 bytes

Sp3000

Pretty accurate guess :P

Optimizer

you already have one ?

randomra

there is no harm leaving things in sandbox for a day (other than your nerves maybe)

Retina is pretty handy for it :) (7 bytes)

Sp3000

Yeah - I was trying to see if a certain approach worked in Python (it didn't), thought of another, then realised it was a lot more suited for CJam

randomra

12:12 PM

my koth sits in the sandbox for more than a month but I won't be here long enough to run it for quite some time...

@Sp3000 congrats on the Deadfish answer, might be the first competitive one on the site

Sp3000

Let's find out...

feersum

I'm sure I've put a deadfish answer for some stupid challenge before

randomra

I searched for it, this is the closest I found

4

A: Evolution of OEIS

Deadfish, 4 bytes, depth 2, A005563 from A001477 isdo This sequence is defined as (n+1)^2-1, which is exactly what this program does. Since Deadfish has no input, it assumes the accumulator is at the desired input number. The next answer should start with the terms: 0, 3

Sp3000

I saw that but I'm not sure about the input part :/

(it's half the reason why I use 3var sometimes, since that does have input)

randomra

yeah, I wouldn't consider this either, hence I used "closest"

hmm, haven't known of 3var before

feersum

12:28 PM

I remember there was some challenge that said 'stdin or closest alternative' so I felt free to use 'closest alternative'

Lembik

I like that python is currently faster than C for codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/52851/… :)

although I don't suppose that will last

hi @feersum

feersum

Hi

Lembik

1:07 PM

@Min_25 do you think my probability question is easier if A isn't repeated but instead the A[i] just carry on being sampled independently ?

@feersum actually.. I should have asked you that as well

feersum

what ?

Lembik

@feersum in codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/51707/9206 the first part of the solution removes the restriction that A[1] = A[n+1]

and looks simpler

I was wondering if it kept on being simpler for higher values of j

feersum

sure, the question would be easy without A[1] = A[n+1]

Lembik

that's very interesting to me

feersum

I don't see what you mean about higher values of j...if you remove this rule then there is no meaning of j, is there?

Lembik

1:14 PM

do you think it can be solved for larger j under those conditions?

what I mean is that A \in {-1,1}^(2n) say and we want to know the probability that the first j inner products are 0

so it's the same question except A[n+1], A[n+2] etc are sampled independently now

instead of being copies of A[1], A[2] etc.

do you see what I mean?

feersum

Of course it would be somewhat easier. Not sure if it would be really simple or just a bit easier.

Lembik

ok.. I may have to leave it a bit so people don't get too annoyed about having similar questions posed :)

Optimizer

3:09 PM

Optimizer

3:41 PM

2 more to go until I explain the Octopus joke.

Sp3000

Woo, within 2x of CJam ~~and Pyth~~ pumps fist

Dennis

@Sp3000 On my first computer, code page 850 was rendered like this:

Sp3000

What's this for?

Dennis

Single-byte arrow characters.

Sp3000

I was almost tempted to ask about i with a caret on top, but I didn't want to push the rules :P

Dennis

3:55 PM

Meh, that still doesn't beat APL.

I think I'll post an answer, even if just to show how old I am. :P

Sp3000

Right language for the job, I guess

btw for your LCS question, I thought you meant 20 length 1000 strings in an hour initially. That would have been amusing (and annoying) to golf :P

Dennis

Is that even possible?

For random strings, I mean.

Sp3000

With the right algorithm, possibly. You have a constant alphabet, but I'm not sure if that helps

Would have to read a few papers for algorithm ideas :P

Dennis

Maybe for a fastest code challenge. Highest n for n strings of length 1000. :P

Sp3000

And that's why I thought it was a Lembik challenge :P

Dennis

4:01 PM

He would probably have some O(f(n)) requirement instead of runtime. I don't use those because I don't grok them.

Runtime leads to far less discussions.

Oh, you've posted the code I was going to use as an alternative approach. Hm, just changing the arrows to other arrows probably doesn't warrant a second answer...

Sp3000

Sorry - was pretty desperate to beat Pyth (until Jakube knocked an extra one off)

Dennis

@aditsu My unimprovement takes roughly 5 minutes on my machine.

With it and a few more changes, 49 bytes is possible.

aditsu

@Dennis and how much ram?

Dennis

@aditsu Haven't checked. Disregard the comment about 49 bytes for now. I've made a horrible mistake.

Is there any easy way to measure peak RAM usage?

Other than staring at top, I mean, which is what I'm using now.

aditsu

4:18 PM

not sure

@Dennis seems that gnu time has an option for that

Dennis

@aditsu: Yes, I found %M and %K. Not sure what they will output.

Optimizer

99 Bottles of Beer

Dennis

If I get my computer to output beer, I'll never get anything done. :P

Optimizer

Now you know why I have been slow lately..

Sp3000

@Dennis Isn't that what the tab key is for?

aditsu

4:26 PM

/usr/bin/time -v is giving a lot of info

Dennis

@Sp3000 No beer, sadly.

@aditsu I'll try it.

Sp3000

Probably too many tabs open :(

Dennis

@aditsu Correction: My 49 byte code does work. Just had messed up the input format. :P

aditsu

I also have "time" as a shell command (in fact I've just installed gnu time now), but it doesn't have that option

and btw, I have 56 tabs at the moment, they're eating quite a lot of memory :p

hmm, "time" output might not be so great

it said my program used 5GB when it was more like 1.3

Dennis

Well, how did you measure those 1.3?

aditsu

4:35 PM

kde's "system activity", but also looking at "top" now

actually, 1.2; top seems to agree

Dennis

Oh, a fellow KDE user.

time and top seem to be consistent.

Time says 5,204,096 KiB.

aditsu

are you looking at "resident size" in both?

Digital Trauma

This one: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/52903/…

the OP changed scoring from bytes to chars after 15 answers

I rolled it back

I hope I'm not being too heavy-handed

aditsu

wut, 100TB?! do want!!

it should be enough for a few months

Dennis

@aditsu: Hadn't even noticed that. I looked at %MEM and multiplied by 16. :P

aditsu

4:46 PM

hmm, lemme check that

Sp3000

Man, if ⇅ is allowed that changes everything

I still stand by "ambiguous arrow definition is ambiguous" though

aditsu

%MEM went up to 16, and I have 8GB total

but time -v says: Maximum resident set size (kbytes): 5165152

Dennis

5:12 PM

@aditsu I blame multi-threading. Not sure though.

@Sp3000 Not sure if it helps. ri"⇅⇵⇅"f*N* is actually longer than your code.

Sp3000

35 mins ago, by Sp3000

Man, if ⇅ is allowed that changes everything

Not going to do it though, I've given up on the question :/

(feel free to post it - it's actually a byte less)

Zukki

5:29 PM

Hello, I never posted here before but I like to read all the puzzles on a daily basis. I have an idea for a KOTH game, is there any post with guidelines and tips to develop the controller for the contest?

Sp3000

You can take a look on meta, but I can't seem to find an actual list of guidelines/tips

(there's tidbits scattered here and there, as you can see from the search)

@Dennis {6a4*:mr$1>:+3+} -> {6a4*:mr$T3t:+} ?

Dennis

@Sp3000 Oh, I thought your answer was 16 bytes long. Not sure why.

That's clever. Thanks!

Zukki

thanks @Sp3000 ;)

Sp3000

@Zukki Actually the tag wiki's got some

Geobits

5:51 PM

@Zukki It might help to download some of the other controllers and see how they did things. I had one get tripped up by a dumb io flushing error that might have been caught if I'd looked at (read:copied/ported) someone else's.

Brandon

7:01 PM

So, I'm gonna get jumped on and eaten and spit out for this because this is the first time I've been here, but whatever: I know there's no "Golf questions must be posted in XYZ language" but shouldn't there be some restriction on languages designed specifically for code golfing (read: CJam etc...)?

It's pretty disheartening going into a "shortest code wins" knowing that "unless I code this in CJam or Pyth, I will not win this ever"

Optimizer

There are more than 2 languages. But honestly, the comparison is the same.

if these languages were not there, it would have been a competetion between the mainstream ones, now its between golfing ones.

Also, winner does not always take the most votes

if that you are interested in

Brandon

In shortest code challenges the winner is 90% CJam if it's posted...

Optimizer

no

Sp3000

^^ Ditto, if CJam/Pyth/APL/J/etc. didn't exist we'd just all be banning Perl

Optimizer

I am not sure where you are collecting the numbers from

Brandon

7:04 PM

anyway, I'm not here to get into a crazy argument, just something to maybe think about. Makes it pretty uninteresting posting an answer knowing I'll never win because I don't use one of those

Geobits

@Brandon I golf in Java. My world won't fall apart if CJam beats me (as it always does). I just try to make it the shortest Java I can.

aditsu

@Brandon also see meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/630/…

Brandon

But Perl is a production language that you use in the wild to accomplish something

Geobits

No I don't use perl in the wild :P

Brandon

@Geobits I understand. I golf in C#.

Optimizer

7:04 PM

But perl comes close to all of the golfing ones very easily

Brandon

....But Perl came out in 1987

aditsu

@Brandon since stack snippets were implemented, a few people started making leaderboards by language

Geobits

So we would all just use APL then, right? It's older and used in production code :)

Sp3000

The point wasn't about what's used in mainstream, it's just there's always going to be a best language that ends up winning most of the time

Brandon

In my perfect world it'd be languages that people use for things other than golf.

Sp3000

7:06 PM

It's unfortunate that only one answer can be accepted, but it's best to think of it per language as others have said, like anarchy golf and other sites

Brandon

Anyway, like I said: I knew I'd get destroyed for it but I wanted to throw it out there anyway

Because even if I could think of a golf question, I'd probably never post it because I know that some CJam-ninja would come in and kill it with one character

Geobits

If the concentration was purely on best overall, we'd see much less diversity IMO. Personally I'm really damn glad that not every answer here is in CJam or pyth.

BrainSteel

@Brandon I think at least 90% of my answers are written in C. I do not win. Luckily, though, winning means virtually nothing on this site. It's all about the cleverness.

Optimizer

@Brandon and APL in 1960s

J in 90s

similarly, K, Q, D etc are all old and super compact

Brandon

Welp, like I said... Equal and opposite reaction.

Have a good day, fine sirs.

aditsu

7:10 PM

@Brandon don't lose heart, we love all answers :)

Geobits

:D Nah, stick around! I think most of us have had that thought at one point or another...

aditsu

at least if they are valid and show some effort

Sp3000

Some of us still do (not speaking for myself though)

aditsu

but I understand the feeling.. I got kinda frustrated by golfscript winning, so created CJam (guilty) :p

Geobits

I'd be surprised if there's a majority here that hasn't at some (however brief) point thought "f*ing CJam" or similar ;)

Sp3000

7:12 PM

s/CJam/Pyth/

BrainSteel

I have a feeling that if we were as CJam/Pyth-centric as many newcomers' first impressions describe, this site would die an unfortunate and immediate death.

Sp3000

Fixed

Geobits

Yea, choose your language to insert in that utterance :D

Optimizer

I think negative people will get discouraged, but positive peoples will try to learn these golfier languages.

Geobits will simply downvote everything and go away (if he had been a new user to the site)

Geobits

I don't have a desire to learn golfy languages tbh, but I just stopped caring about them. At first I admit I didn't play the code-golf game because of it.

BrainSteel

7:15 PM

Not all positive peoples will learn these golfier languages :P I like to think I'm fairly positive around here.

Geobits

Then some question sucked me in.

Optimizer

sucked you down*

Geobits

I like to think of myself as fairly positive too. Don't let my voting record or image tell you otherwise :D

Optimizer

it is

Geobits

@BrainSteel Not a majority yet by a long shot, but CJam has a bunch of answers considering it hasn't been around that long.

aditsu

7:18 PM

@Geobits yes, you positively downvote everything :)

Geobits

I'm kinda surprised to see ruby that high on the list. Must have been used a lot more before I joined.

Optimizer

our top 5 languages include too

BrainSteel

We have a community of excellent CJam/Pyth/J/Q golfers that compete with each other and a community of excellent C(++)/Java/Python/Ruby golfers that compete with each other (with obvious overlap). It's just unfortunate we can only crown one answer as the victor.

Sp3000

Personally, I just like to beat Javascript with Python. It's usually a close race (and sometimes completely biased towards one side)

BrainSteel

And occasionally C sneaks in :D

Sp3000

7:24 PM

Unexpectedly often, I find :P

Optimizer

@Sp3000 its never a close race. Python has shit load of more inbuilts

but what the hell is a space doing at fifth position ?

BrainSteel

Well, to be fair, everything has more builtins than C, and it is still competitive sometimes.

Optimizer

C has speed built-in

BrainSteel

That's true, we've got fastest-code down pretty well :)

Sp3000

JS function notation and ternaries are a lot shorter and you don't need to import

Optimizer

7:30 PM

@Sp3000 like there is much to import anyways.

Sp3000

from random import*;random()

Geobits

If all you need is a 0..1 random, even Java's got that beat: Math.random() :P

Importing Random is a nightmare for anything more complicated than that, though.

Sp3000

:P there should be a discussion about what each language is worst at

Just for... educational reasons

Geobits

Java's pretty terrible about Strings and BigIntegers, and output (System.out.print? ugh), even for Java.

BrainSteel

C is even worse at BigIntegers. And arguably Strings. And random number generators...

Sp3000

7:36 PM

I'd imagine that C would also be bad at big ints?

BrainSteel

You have to implement them yourself :(

Brandon

Sorry missed a bunch of replies, went to eat an avocado.

Sp3000

How does C do random numbers? Read junk and take modulo? :P

@Brandon Welcome back, sorry about earlier

Brandon

Hey man, I don't care... I'm just saying.

BrainSteel

There's srand() and rand() in "stdlib.h", but it's a quite poor quality RNG.

Brandon

7:38 PM

Sucks because anyone that I've shown PPCG to doesn't want to take part because of those golf languages. They're just out immediately

Geobits

If it's good enough for Doom, it's good enough for me :P

Sp3000

Hmm PPCG does unfortunately have a bit of a learning curve... especially if you don't visit meta :/ That's a shame

Geobits

@Brandon Try to hook them into the community with other things. Fastest code, king of the hill, etc. Once they hang around it might change. That's why I'm here. I avoided PPCG for some time because I thought it was all golf.

Brandon

@Geobits It would be awesome if it was all golf lol

Sp3000

(I can't remember why I joined tbh. For some reason my first answer's in FRACTRAN)

Geobits

7:41 PM

@Brandon I wouldn't be here, so not so awesome to me ;)

BrainSteel

I think, as you said, the majority being golf kind of scares away some potential newcomers.

Sp3000

I wonder how many people joined because they got linked to a cool popcon. I'd imagine quite a few

BrainSteel

Unfortunately, other challenges are much harder to write, usually.

I bet I was one of them.

Brandon

I guess to each their own in that case... I don't even touch the KOTH (mostly because the rules don't make a lot of sense to me) and fastest-code.

Geobits

@Sp3000 My first was Images with all colors, from HNQ.

And I still prefer other challenge types to golf, but there aren't enough of those to fill the day.

BrainSteel

7:45 PM

I really like the general code-challenge type.

aditsu

I think I started by golfing GCJ solutions on stackoverflow

like this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/1433263/code-golf-decision-tree

then later I found out about PPCG

Sp3000

Ah Java, of course

Optimizer

wow, this is my next wallpaper now.

wow that loader is taking its time

BrainSteel

Did you find that on PPCG?

Geobits

I'm using a green, non-dithered version of my "forest" right now.

aditsu

7:58 PM

I'm using a color drawing of Simon's cat :)

Catnip - Simon Paints

►

Geobits

Friday afternoon, 4:04. Motivation not found.

Optimizer

8:18 PM

@BrainSteel in the all the colors challange

trichoplax

My wallpaper is some oil on the surface of a puddle that seems to have spontaneously grown branches

Geobits

Wait. Like tree branches? Or branch-like patterns? If tree branches, that's fairly odd.

trichoplax

In 2d - just branch-like

For my background I've cropped out the product placement, but the full image shows up the extent of the branching better:

Optimizer

What does W stand for ?

trichoplax

I never thought to wonder, but I wondered a lot about how the branches formed

Peter Taylor

8:38 PM

@Brandon I use GolfScript for things other than golf. Not for production code, but I have used it for quick-and-dirty data analysis.

@BrainSteel The thing I tend to switch to C for is 128-bit floats.

Optimizer

dirty data analysis ?

Peter Taylor

No.

Optimizer

damn

aditsu

@PeterTaylor huh? are you talking about a library?

oh, or apparently there's something called __float128

Peter Taylor

1

A: Maclaurin series of Black Box Function

GCC, 549 chars #define f __float128 #define D long double #define L(v)for(v=0;v<n;v++) void G(f a[],int n,double d){f m[n][n],s;int i,j,k;L(i)L(j)m[i][j]=j?m[i][j-1]*d*(i-n/2):1;L(i){s=m[i][i];L(j)m[i][j]/=s;a[i]/=s;L(j)if(j^i){s=m[j][i];L(k)m[j][k]-=s*m[i][k];a[j]-=s*a[i];}}} #define F(a)L(i)a[...

aditsu

8:45 PM

yeah, hadn't heard of __float128 before

xnor

8:58 PM

should I ban regexp for meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/5547/20260?

it can easily delete ?^H until none remain

Optimizer

9:24 PM

I bet Pyth can still do shorter, no ?

xnor

9:39 PM

i guess it's an easy challenge, might as well let them have their fun

New Main Posts

9:50 PM

2

Q: Backhanded^H^H^H^H^H^Hspaces

On some terminals, pressing backspace generates the control code ^H to delete the previous character. This gives rises to a snarky idiom where edits are feigned for comedic effect: Be nice to this fool^H^H^H^Hgentleman, he's visiting from corporate HQ. Given a string with one or more ^H's...

code-golf string

aditsu

@Dennis still there? check out my latest version :)

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Blackjack How to Play Blackjack is for any number of people, but there will be only one in this case. The goal is to get as close to 21 as possible without going over. Aces will be 1 for this program. All other face cards are worth 10. To start, the player is dealt two cards. They can then ch...

Dennis

10:12 PM

@aditsu 40 bytes? Wow.

aditsu

and efficient too :)

sadly Pyth is still ahead

Dennis

39 if you change the input format so q~ works.

@aditsu That's crazy fast. It works on my phone.

Optimizer

10:27 PM

Hah, As always, Pyth has the exact same algorithm as Cjam :P

hides

aditsu

does it? I thought it was still removing one character at a time

(I can't read Pyth, even when explained)

Optimizer

such disappointment that Retina is only tied with Cjam on this one

aditsu

@Optimizer oh wait, I guess you're talking about another challenge

Optimizer

:D

well, TTS. Hope that @Dennis will come up with a shorter one.

New Main Posts

10:46 PM

0

Q: Create an interface that fits the XKCD Types

colors.rgb("blue") yields "#0000FF". colors.rgb("yellowish blue") yields NaN. colors.sort() yields "rainbow" Using the rules set out in the image, and the title of time image (quoted here) create a program that accepts all the given input and displays the appropriate output. Input can be...

code-golf

aditsu

rats, no \x08 :p

@Optimizer btw, will you update codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/52832/7416 ?

Dennis

@Optimizer I was about to post a (much) longer answer when I saw your 14 byte solution, so don't count on me.

aditsu

count on Jimmy :)

Dennis

Just found the time to test your code on my desktop. 2.46 s for all test cases. Amazing!

aditsu

yay

although it doesn't beat C ^_^

Dennis

11:00 PM

Beating C with CJam for speed is like beating CJam with C for size. :P

aditsu

hehe, depends on the algorithm, but yeah

Dennis

Since yours is already much shorter, here's what I had:

q~Q{:L:&{LL1f<:&L1f>j+aL,,@f{m>1a.>j}+{,}$W=}Q?}j

Sparr

someone should answer my leap second comment on that time question

aditsu

@Dennis ah, nice

I like the m>1a.> part, I was looking for something like that before

Dennis

I was surprised it only takes 6 minutes. I thought getting rid of the brackets in {}{}? would be more expensive.

Sparr

11:15 PM

theaigames.com/competitions/ai-block-battle

3

seems like some folks here would do well in that

aditsu

@Dennis hmm that solution will probably break in some cases, because you're using L after j (and it's global)

Dennis

@aditsu Only the length of L, which doesn't change.

aditsu

oh, it keeps the same length? nevermind then :)

Dennis

The L I actually care about is pushed before j and rotated on top.

Yes, it's the number of strings.

aditsu

in my code it was changing sometimes

Transcript for