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12:01 AM
@MarkMayo not stopping at red lights seems counter-intuitive. But an answer provides an impeccably high quality quote making an explanation.
@MarkMayo Also while you're here, why did you ignore my tweet?
12:27 AM
@GayotFow I am TOTALLY lost! Link is to unhygienic knickers (men’s), comment is to Orange is the New Black (I’ve only seen a clip of it), then “great law” (which, red traffic lights?) and yet still Lorna might fit in???
@pnuts You need to watch it, it is breaking television history
@pnuts those prison girls make a contraband side business of selling their underwear to perverts
It's hilarious
Is there a mod or someone in the higher ups who is listening???
I have a question..........
I only saw the dentistry bit and when her partner first arrives (in the van). Now the penny has dropped - just in time to avoid Gayot's famous 2nd law.
@pnuts I have watch the first 33 episodes in binges
Whoa! What is the 2nd law????
You should be able to see who is in the room in the side bar - ie you, JoEr, Karlson and I (not necessarily all paying attention however). If you want a mod seems the way to do it may be to ping them.
At the moment that's classified.
12:37 AM
ok, here goes
@RoflcoptrException @RoryAlsop, @Karlson anybody got their ears on???
no joy
@pnuts do you believe in your heart that 'rep begats rep'?
er, of those only the first is a TSE mod, our other two are
Ankur Banerjee♦ and mindcorrosive♦
I think a ping here counts as a notification - they may not be on line now but will get a message in their inbox.
@mindcorrosive, @AnkurBanerjee got your ears on?
For my question it can be a mod or higher up, same difference
It's about the girl that used an answer slot to ask a new question
Of course I believe in Gayot's First Law - has it not been rigorously tested scientifically and found to apply in absolutely all cases AND guaranteed to fail for Jon Skeet? I have it from reliable sources even people who don't think there is life on Philae would be shaken to the core at the mere suggestion Gayot's First Law might be questioned.
That means you agree with it. Although not scientifically tested, there is enough empirical evidence.
It's disappointing that we cannot connect with the higher ups
I must be in the wrong time zone
@pnuts, dead here... See you later kind squire
1:00 AM
1:35 AM
@GayotFow What's up?
@Karlson Something to do with " the girl that used an answer slot to ask a new question" but Gayot's moved on for now.
@pnuts On which questions?
Was that user31513?
He didn't volunteer, I didn't ask and am afraid I've not seen a likely candidate means.
But why would it matter? The handling procedure if you're not a mod is to flag it and comment.
I'd guess not 31513 as we don't know that user's gender. Agree about the procedure but suspect it was not that - Gayot was asking for "mods or higher up" and seemed to be in a hurry, so I'd guess whatever it was was not routine.
@GayotFow Being serious, 'rep attracts rep' is true for SO but I think not due to anything particularly sinister. To begin with a low rep user might not realise you have to be FGITW - or toast. Build up a little rep and you have more experience of site workings – what ‘style’ is/not appreciated, the level of detail to pitch, how to navigate SO quickly to fill any gaps in your answer.
Users who have a template ready to answer standard questions are always going to be hard to beat for speed. THEN a more dubious aspect may kick in. You have significant rep and having been active for a while and known to the others who are active. They get to trust you enough that if they see something of yours they like they’ll +1 without bothering to test your answer.
Other As may be as good or better but, untested, who’s to know? And other than from the OP (who may not even have voting rights) most votes come from fellow active users. Those looking to answer may be the only ones to read your answer.
1:51 AM
@Karlson I have a question, do you have a moment?
Gone dead again :(
My hunch is he'll be back in a mo.
@Karlson I know that part, but that's only tangential to my question(s)
@GayotFow Go ahead
Just cooking and eating while I am at it.
@Karlson Right. So the girl puts in a question where the answer should go. Presumably because commenting is a rep hurdle...
So then people come and see it...
And they make helpful comments like "This is not an answer" or "Ask a different question"
And then TSE citizens will flag it
Then the mods will delete it...
So those people's helpful comments are lost
And viewing deleted content is a rep hurdle
So where does that leave the girl???
It disappears
It's a problem
1:59 AM
She gets no feedback and doesn't even know what happened...
It may be a good question for meta.stackoverflow.com
If this hasn't been asked aready
Right. So I have thought about it
The thing is
on the other side of it is an argument that look at what people are doing and follow suit or look through help
instead of clicking in the answer tab to post the anser.
I do understand that most people are used to forum like format where next post should be related to the previous one but I would always read first and ask after
Can we vote for the mods to have a "Convert to Question" button available to them?
Which is exactly how I have started on SO.com
meta.stackexchange.com and put in the request
2:03 AM
LOL, no way jose perez!
It's asking for trouble
It may already have been asked and rejected
It invites the META effect
META effect = if they think you are a smart ass, they look at your profile to see if you have street cred
What do you mean?
Haven't found that to be the case but fine.
And if you do not have lots of street cred, you invite a run of down votes
Even then it's a coding issue.
2:06 AM
Yes, but you are in the higher ups, right. It's different down here :)
@GayotFow Not really
Besides my repo on meta.SE is about 200 something
And well you still won't have repo < 1
I need 5k rep on SO for my day job
in TSE it's just fun
@GayotFow Why do you need that much for you day job?
@Karlson They need to see that you are worthwhile and have good writing skills
And they use SO for that?
2:10 AM
Yes, they absolutely do; I promise you
"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" is an adage which began as a cartoon caption by Peter Steiner and published by The New Yorker on July 5, 1993. The cartoon features two dogs: one sitting on a chair in front of a computer, speaking the caption to a second dog sitting on the floor. As of 2011, the panel was the most reproduced cartoon from The New Yorker, and Steiner has earned over US $50,000 from its reprinting. == History == Peter Steiner, a cartoonist and contributor to The New Yorker since 1979, said the cartoon initially did not get a lot of attention, but later took on a life of...
And they go anonymous to get your linked in profile
And they know that this is actually you by doing what exactly?
And if you don't have an SO profile?
Sure, I have a profile...
Gayot Fow, London, United Kingdom
5.6k 1 11 31
It's what they look at
And check out my skills and wring ability
That's stupid but oh well..
Speaking of your other suggestion
Q: Convert non-answers into new questions?

Marc GravellWe see a lot of occasions where a new user posts an answer when in fact they should be asking a question; for example here or here. Given that: we want to make life as comfortable as possible for new users (the life-blood) we may have a different audience, especially on SuperUser How about t...

2:13 AM
YES! Well done, let me read this for a moment.
Basically boils down to: Look at what you're doing and press TBFB: Ask Question
BRB. Need to take a dog for a walk
It was asked by Mark Gravell! Do you know that guy?
He is one of the heaviest guys in the business
He is awesome, and an inspiration to ham & eggs guys like me
OK, I left a comment for Shog9. He is staff. I suggest for people here to upvote Mark Gravell's question and leave a comment.
And @Karlson, thanks for your time! And a tip of the hat for finding the issue already in META.
It saves embarrassment. And seeing that a world-class heavyweight put the question forward means it will get fair treatment
On the main site, the technical one, he is a true example of rep begats rep
2:29 AM
@GayotFow It's not embarrassment. It's a legitimate question. Like the 95000 questions we get about Schengen transit visa for Indian citizens.
Those questions should get the hammer
Kill the question before Google finds it
Relaxed is taking all the rep for I can't get my bronze badge.... Waaaaaahhhh!!!!
@Karlson He stopped talking to me. I was planning to apologize
@Karlson Wait, what badge do they give out for schengen?
2:45 AM
Schengen bronze badge
Then silver then gold
I am working on a bronze one.
The tag badges
I have noticed it much. I have a bronze one; does it do anything special?
I have a silver one on visa-refusal, does it clear any hurdles or something?
I wanted the bounty badges really bad, but just for fun
Just a "badge of honor" type scenario
Wear it proudly
Got it :)
~252k people reached
I am trying to get it to a million
It's my main goal on TSE at the moment
I have a million
Not that I care...
Very impressive. It's a shame there's no badge
Well done on you. I will catch up soon hopefully
I have 12k followers on Twitter and I use the "share" button to get something into my feed
2:58 AM
And I am not ashamed to admit that I don't have a Twitter account.
And I am not going to get one.
Mine comes from when I was in practice.
Everybody knows I don't do that any more
And I just play silly buggers with it :)
@drat, hello, I didn't see you there
What do you mean in practice?
yes. but I do not take casework any more
I hate it in fact
I c.
But I do work the policy side
And I enjoy that part
3:02 AM
Finally reached the: "People suck!" stage?
YES! You got it exactly
And in immigration it is horrible
Worse than you can imagine
I think we have a US immigration lawyer here too. You can share stories.
I am done with my dealings with USCIS and I am non happier for it.
I have a US passport, but I know bugger all about the law over there
I bet that he is probably as disgusted as I am
Who isn't
I mean with people lying and cheating and gaming the system
I got fed up :)
3:06 AM
Well... That's common law for you
Though I can't say I haven't taken advantage of this...
I sit on the Entry Clearance User Panel at UKVI
And it's fine
Especially procedural arbitrage...
what is procedural arbitrage?
A procedure at one center is slightly different then the other.
Not just immigration but taxes as well...
OH! I know about that in immigration.
3:08 AM
Same with border crossings.
Major crossings are a pain in the neck.
I know places where you just walk through the airport
Smaller ones are simpler.
City airport in London
And it has international flights?
Take the early flight from Frankfurt
on Monday morning
Or the late afternoon flight to Frankfurt on a Friday LOL
3:10 AM
Well leaving I don't care. Entering that's a different story
And other stuff like that;
I wouldn't tell it on the TSE site
I haven't seen US international airports be that easy
Well.. You just did. :)
No, I mean in the public answer part of the site
Actually easiest immigration check I've had was in Lubek, ME
granted you can't go much anywhere.
Maine in US?
3:12 AM
Canadian border check was a old guy sitting in a lounge chair.
We had to ask if this was the border.
I have hitchhiked through there and know the border is a joke
That was sort of funny. US side the guys at least wore uniforms. :)
Anyhow. Time for me to go put my son to bed.
I had a gf in Madawaska; the border was rididulous
Before you go.........
Thanks again for your help and moral support
I appreciate it
I will go and binge watch OITNB now also
No probs
Madawaska?????? I'll have to hear that story. ;)
Not that I am currently living in a big city.
G'night everyone.
1 hour later…
4:28 AM
@MarkMayo don't over think it, any gift will do. Bring something from wherever you are coming. I do know someone who goes there I will ask and let you know if you really want to know about gifts in there
2 hours later…
6:06 AM
wow, it seems that we have a low-quality-post-wave
@GayotFow A gold tag badge allows you to protect questions with that tag, regardless of reputation count. Bronze and silver are just status quo.
@Dirty-flow indeed. You missed out on the crazy spam wave we had yesterday.
@pnuts Thanks for the recap. I was just making a joke. :)
so much spam, so much crud on front page right now
@NeAnDerthal thanks. I've been told cash is common as a gift, it's just something I'd ususally consider to be a bit impersonal.
6:49 AM
I don't get the point of all those low-quality posts. They seem to be some sort of spam, but they don't post any links, so what are they trying to do?
@Dirty-flow yes there are. I try to clean them now
@GayotFow saw your ping, I'm just reading the messages now to see whats the problem
and @MarkMayo I'm also going to check the IP, thanks!
@GayotFow Yes that's really a problem. Therefore, I only delete questions when I or others have posted a link to the help section where it is explained how to ask a question here on SO.
A turn into question button would also be helpful sometimes, on the other hand one could also expect that a new user shows a very minimal effort and copies his answer into a new question
wow, there are so many answers from new users that are not directly spam but low quality. i wonder where they came from
1 hour later…
8:21 AM
they don't give up, still so many posts from new users
It's really strange
do they all come from the same region, can you see that with your mod tools
yes I can see it
while a lot of them come from india, they come from different cities and have different IPs
but I have to have a closer look
just checked a few
just this morning, I already handled 38 flags :)
8:38 AM
8 posts flagged, 85 flags left for today
2 hours later…
10:24 AM
There are lot of noobs people showing up from the sub continent
My favourite question of all times.
unfortunately it's deleted
Ach. That's why I had problems finding it yesterday via the app.
@Willeke From the SE legal page: stackexchange.com/legal
Subscriber represents, warrants and agrees that it will not contribute any Subscriber Content that (a) infringes, violates or otherwise interferes with any copyright or trademark of another party
@Willeke Under 3. Subscriber Content.
In other words: you must check for copyright infringement, and you will be liable for it.
We're attracting more noobs, it's a good thing, but for sure they need to read the help page
Cripes! So many deleted answers!!!
@RoflcoptrException, there's a spammer on the prowl. Can't tell if they are well-intended though.
The noobs appear to be well-intended, please give them a chance to try harder
@JoErNanO Thank you for that info about the badges; I thought they were all unicorn toys
11:00 AM
Yes that's the problem. Most of it seems well-intended
I don't want to just delete all of their contributions. I think we first should point out to them what they are doing wrong
@RoflcoptrException @Dirty-flow @JoErNanO I have been trying to get 1 million people reached. I have been sharing stuff into my twitter feed, where there are 12k followers, most of whom come from when I was in practice. There are a lot of sub continent subscribers (for obvious reasons). There may be a connection. If so, it's likely they are sincere people who would make great contributors. I do not know absolutely if there is a connection or not.
It's also inevitable that some would see a spam opportunity
I will lay off the shares for a while if it's of any help :)
11:20 AM
@Karlson It's a small town that overlaps the border and has a very small-town persona. I got there on one of my silly projects to hitchhike every single mile of I-95. I-95 ends in the middle of Maine, but I continued on to Madawaska because I met a girl from there and hitchhiked together from Mexico to LA.
So she was a casual gf and she had a twin sister. I stayed with her in Madawaska for several weeks, then started another project in Canada to hitch the trans canada. We exchanged one or two letters, but I never saw her again. That's the story :)
Her mother was an alcoholic and she was embarrassed about it when I first got there
And the border controls there are absolutely laughable
@GayotFow You shouldn't stop sharing just because you think there's a correlation with noob attraction.Rather we should start patrolling the site in a more efficient manner.
@Karlson I just Googled her. She's apparently living in Presque Isle and has a son. I don't think I will contact her though.
@JoErNanO You put it in to META.
Who? Me? I'd never dare. :D :D
@JoErNanO That was naughty, people can see it :)
It is a TSE meme thread
That's the plan. :)
11:36 AM
I will get a run of punishment down votes
I hope not. Please tell me if you do.
ok :)
There's a fellow who didn't like my gradients
I think it's unrelated though
@Karlson, just to finish... if you are in Northern Maine, Madawaska is a glimpse into small town Americana. And the archetypical border town.
You can start a sentence in English and finish it in Quebecois --- it's all one polyglot.
@GayotFow I'm having a hard time seeing the goodness of will in today's wave of first-timers. That Kurdistan question has been on the site for months and it's suddenly getting three one-liner answers.
@RoflcoptrException What's your take on this one?
Q: Do I still need a blood test for a Kurdistan residency permit?

pnutsFor a stay exceeding 15 days in Kurdistan even nationals of some visa free countries need residency permission. The short-term requirements are mentioned by the Kurdistan Regional Government and include: Evidence that the applicant has undertaken a blood test according to the procedures of th...

11:53 AM
@GayotFow I think all part of the build up to something like the canadianvisa expert issue again. Note at least three of those answers have been deleted for plagiarism. @JErNanO.
@pnuts A KursdistanVisaExpert set-up? :D
Could very well be.
@mindcorrosive @ankurbanerjee You too might want to monitor this closely.
No. Build up of enough rep to later be able to answer (and appear 'credible') when just answering to plug something. The signs for canadianvisaexpert was that accounts were set up for that 3 weeks before the 'hit'.
Ah. Correct.
Rep gathering for spamming elsewhere.
Could be.
@JoErNanO @pnuts You guys are saying that it's not related to my twitter, but instead some sock puppets who want to pimp out canadian visas?
Could very well be. That's the pattern followed for yesterday's canadianvisa madness.
1. Join the site
2. Gather random rep to obtain some sort of credibility
3. Post spammy answers elsewhere
4. People will have more doubts that you are actually a spammer since you've gathered reputation elsewhere
12:04 PM
I hate it when that happens
I have seen it elsewhere in forums
Where is the canadian stuff?
The "canadian stuff" has mostly been deleted (though, I think strangely) not the entire 8 accounts. There is though quite a lot of trace in chat.
I think only SE staff can delete accounts. @RoflcoptrException You confirm?
@RoflcoptrException, people offering visa services are the worst scum in the world
@RoflcoptrException, I can tell you stories about 'visa services' that will make your blood run cold
NO NO NO NO. CIBT for example is excellent.
@RoflcoptrException the spokesperson for the NABA told me that she reckons 80% of uk applications on the sub continent are represented by scammers
In the more egregious cases, they do not even submit the application. They wait for a while and give the applicant a forged refusal letter
Then they scam the person for appeal representation!
And they don't even submit the appeal
12:18 PM
Non-submission means they can keep the visa application fee.
@pnuts YES, you got it
@pnuts About 3 applications a year allows you to live comfortably
ie no wonder it happens.
@pnuts Several rounds of fake appeals can cost a lot of money
@pnuts And then after they have drained the person, they introduce them to a passport forgery artist
We have seen victims here in TSE
I lay a lot of blame on the likes of the UK Government for such scams.
@pnuts So does the NABA :) LOL, they get furious about it
They get very disgusted at the user panel
Plus when there's a crooked ECO on the inside, matters become much worse
12:27 PM
I wonder what proportion of Lunar House inmates are from the subcontinent?
Sometimes the government has to fire the entire staff of a visa issuing post. Everybody!
But they cannot do anything against the people who got away with it
And for people in India/Pakistan who got scammed, it's just hard cheese
@pnuts Lunar House has their fair share of corruption too
So does Sheffield
Sheffield handles entry clearances, Lunar House does leave to remain
@RoflcoptrException if somebody is pimping out visa services, they should be banned on the spot. Even if they are well-intended. Banned on the spot
12:49 PM
pimping out anything is BAD, some visa services providers however are EXCELLENT. Putting the two together as pimping out visa services a bit confusing.
@pnuts visa services whose business model is trolling the net should be banned. I totally promise
No contest.
I know personally, face-to-face, in real life interaction, know about 100 practitioners in the UK
Only 1 is on the net, and he appears only in a gay forum
and he never accepts casework out of that forum
Oh my word, that "diagram" has the worst coloring I've ever seen. — Andrew Ferrier 6 hours ago
I had been thinking he was in my allies :( :(
Colourful though - may serve you right for mentioning images may help attract noobs!
never accepts casework out of that forum as in he declines to work for non-members or he never accepts work originating from the forum?
@pnuts I didn't think about that angle
@pnuts If somebody approaches him privately, he will send them back to the forum. He's very prominent in the legal community and so righteous it is incredible
1:05 PM
Images (even not necessary and just of a boring spreadsheet) definitely increase upvotes on SO (and probably SU).
suren may be a variation of user31523/Surya Ragh/farhad.
Sometimes the images are wonderful!
On the main META they told me to get a fake account to ask questions that get closed out
1:26 PM
('main META') eh? why?
@pnuts scroll up to see the convo between @Karlson and I. We are leaking questions. And it turns out the main META has already a really good thread about it
Got you, ta. ('re-ask')
Add user31564 to suren/user31523/Surya Ragh/farhad.
Add user31563 to user31564/suren/user31523/Surya Ragh/farhad.
1:50 PM
@GayotFow Speaking of users being able to view their own deleted answers:
A: Why can't I view the revisions of my own deleted answer?

Jeff AtwoodIndeed -- this should be possible, since owners can see their own deleted answers. Revisions to deleted answers are now visible, provided the post has an owner, the post is an answer, and you are the owner.

2:10 PM
@Karlson Does it mean a noob can see their own stuff? Even deleted stuff?
@GayotFow Yes (but not for ever) except for comments.
So this was all a waste of time???
@GayotFow I take that answer as that being the case. The only thing is they may have to be registered to do it.
@Karlson I apologize for wasting your time.
@GayotFow Not really wasted.
2:21 PM
The main META thread is valuable
2:43 PM
@mindcorrosive @RoflcoptrException @ankurbanerjee I fear there's another spam wave coming our way. Time to check some IP's and ban a bunch of people.
I think this time the IPs are not necessarily the same - or maybe unregistered users.
@JoErNanO @GayotFow Yes, I saw the spammers. I'm still at work, but if no one has cleaned it before tonight, I'm going to handle it
No worries man. ;)
@JoErNanO That's genuinely funny! He cites from the OP's link, HAR
These are human spammers. I'm not used to them. I'd rather deal with bots.
2:52 PM
Not "these", "this"!
@pnuts the corrector!
Here goes another TSE meme. :P
A: Memes of travel.se

JoErNanOHow about pnuts the corrector?

Yes, I am indeed pedantic. OK is something of my nature but I don't try to reign it in on SE - we are here to learn and it is the corner cases that are interesting. Also I feel those who answer more worthy of 'help' than most of those who ask, so frequently pick on minor errors in the As of others. To be fair, such nit picking has been surprisingly well received.
Well. I've always said that toilets are important.
I'd like that (so NOT like Gayot's Law - actually Gayot's First Law) so may not be eligible. "pnuts the corrector" at least may warn others that it is 'nothing personal'.
@pnuts Wait a minute, you told me it was true
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