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09:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

9:22 AM
@Zizouz212 Everything feels quite quiet today...
 
9:56 AM
@Mnementh weekends are traditionally queit
 
10:27 AM
Activity graphs would show the qutieness, if we were on SEDE
 
it's a holiday week-end in the US
 
@Gilles something about fireworks I think
 
Hmm, out of curiosity: shouldn't I qualify for bronze-tag-badge here? opensource.stackexchange.com/tags/licensing/topusers
 
@Mnementh tag badges are only awarded if there are at least X questions in the tag, I doubt we've reached the threshold
it's documented in the badge FAQ on MSE
 
@Gilles Ah, that explains it, thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
12:33 PM
@Mnementh X = 200
Currently we have 73
 
Wow, 240 questions
that may be a record in a private beta
no, SR had way more
 
@ArtOfCode Thanks, I was wondering why that badge wasn't coming
@Gilles That seems to be quite a lot
@Gilles What is SR
 
Software Recommendations
 
ah
OK, it is easy to come up with questions for this :-)
 
yeah, the problem on SR was not quantity, it was quality control
we knew that before the site started, but still it took 2 weeks of private beta to let things settle down
here the volume isn't as crazy, but I guess we got a second week of private beta because the scope doesn't seem very settled
 
12:38 PM
the problem here is seemingly focus, still the openinfo-question on meta is very controversial, getting nearly as much downvotes as upvotes
 
The scope is pretty well defined I think
 
People seem to have VERY different ideas about what this site should include
 
2
Q: Make the site about Open Information!

Zizouz212Note: I understand this is very long, but be sure to read and understanding everything in this post. Alright! Day 6 into the beta, and we're about to introduce a new addition to the scope! The issue of neutrality has been big since the definition phase of this site. Conflicts and arguments over...

 
The issue is more branding and settling on some good neutral terminology
 
+9/-7
 
12:38 PM
@Gilles: exactly
@curiousdannii Not sure: is Wikipedia on topic? Are free content-works on topic (like CC-licensed)? And so on.
 
@Mnementh I've seen no one suggest CC as a whole should be off-topic, or that non-software should be or anything like that
It's only the edge cases
should CC NC be off topic
 
Answer: probably, because it's not open/free
 
1
A: Is there a demarcation problem for religions?

curiousdanniiHumans love to categorise things, and we normally think of categories as dividing things up with borders between the categories. But that isn't actually how we normally do conceptualise our categories - instead we categorise things according to their likeness to archetypes or prototypes, the cent...

 
@ArtOfCode: That's one possible stance, as it is still freely redistributable and part of the CC-movement it might be considered by others as on-topic
 
We have no doubt whatsoever about the archetypal scope of our site, only the difficult edge cases, which will always be the case
> This leaves some things that are harder to classify, but that always happens when you classify according to prototypes rather than borders. There's a trade off: prototypical classifications are easy to define but it's harder to classify the cases which fall between prototypes, whereas border classification systems are hard to define, but it's easy to classify things once you have come up with a definition.
We can't and shouldn't expect to settle all the border disputes during private beta, just to demonstrate that our central archetypal scope is stable
 
12:44 PM
If that is the case, why for example the close votes for the Wikipedia-question (as off-topic), because Wikipedia clearly follows the idea of open source
 
And I think we're doing that perfectly well!
@Mnementh Which question?
 
4
Q: How can I trust Wikipedia, if everyone can change it?

MnementhIf everyone can change the Wikipedia, can it be trusted? Do any studies exists that show it is less trustworthy than classical encyclopedias?

8
Q: Should questions pertaining to open knowledge be in scope

MartijnRecently, How can I trust Wikipedia, if everyone can change it? was asked. I feel questions like this pertaining to open knowledge should be in the scope of this site (even if it isn't necessarily now). Should open knowledge questions be in scope for this site?

 
@Mnementh Yeah I really don't understand why that would get closed as off-topic. Too opinion based maybe, but not off-topic.,
 
As I see here, most people are preferring the inclusive variant, it is less understandable why there is so much oppsition to broadening the definition as Zizouz suggested in the OPenInfo proposal
 
@Mnementh I didn't think he was proposing any broadening of scope, just a bad (IMO) name
 
12:49 PM
@curiousdannii He probably shouldn't have put both in the same post
 
@Mnementh It still doesn't seem like much of a scope change to me
From our perspective there's no difference between a CC licensed painting and a CC licensed database
If he was proposing any change, it would be to specify the types of works in the on-topic description, which would be a mistake
The type of work doesn't matter, only its licensing
 
1:50 PM
Hey, I'm back :)
 
2:04 PM
Afternoon :)
 
How's life?
 
Not bad :)
Writing software again
 
That's always nice :)
 
 
3 hours later…
5:07 PM
@curiousdannii @Mnementh I disagree. They needed to be in the same post: The objective of that post was to make a single solution to the neutrality issues that the site is facing, and we're facing the results - We've had three highly respected users of the site have their accounts deleted. The title wasn't likely the best, but it addressed all the issues that we had, and a common solution to them.
Saying that the scope isn't defined is incorrect, most questions that I see as on hold are closed, for too many reasons. I was proposing a drastic change - It would change all the logistics that we had e.g. Site name, advertising, scope, domain names. The idea that I had in that post was to create a baseline on which to continue our site on, because our current system isn't working.
I tried to do all the work - the new scope boundaries, a new name, example questions to help us get started, but I got no feedback that was solid and clear, just a whole bunch of votes, agrees and disagrees. I doubt the community is settled with what we have right now. When you say the type of work doesn't matter, only its licensing, then your essentially saying that we don't need two of the three points that made this site in the first place.
I'm not trying to say "look at me! I'm the right one here", but rather let's work together and figure this entire thing out
2
Q: Make the site about Open Information!

Zizouz212Note: I understand this is very long, but be sure to read and understanding everything in this post. Alright! Day 6 into the beta, and we're about to introduce a new addition to the scope! The issue of neutrality has been big since the definition phase of this site. Conflicts and arguments ove...

 
5:26 PM
@Zizouz212 Who was that? I haven't seen that...
 
What do you mean who?
 
19 mins ago, by Zizouz212
@curiousdannii @Mnementh I disagree. They needed to be in the same post: The objective of that post was to make a single solution to the neutrality issues that the site is facing, and we're facing the results - We've had three highly respected users of the site have their accounts deleted. The title wasn't likely the best, but it addressed all the issues that we had, and a common solution to them.
Three highly respected users?
 
Bikeshed guy (Carpetsmoker), Tichodroma, and another one who I don't remember off the top of my head
 
When you say "have their accounts deleted" does that mean the deletions were not voluntary? Or do you just mean they have chosen to leave?
 
Likely they chose to leave
 
5:29 PM
The deletions were likely voluntary, they posted tons of questions and answers on both main and meta
 
@All: Our current scope is stable. Maybe not optimal, but it's stable. I think we should leave it like it is until next week, when we can get the CM's in to help.
 
Has anyone opened the Pro Tem nomination post yet?
 
@michaelpri We're still in private, so no
Though there has been much discussion about whether we should or not
Mod's opinion on the matter?
 
@ArtOfCode I've seen nomination posts opened in private beta. Health got their mods immediately after we entered public.
 
@michaelpri Thanks
 
5:34 PM
Well, there was a post, I'll get the link to it
 
Should I open one?
 
In that case, guys, I also think we need to open the mod-nomination post. We're going to need mods soon.
@michaelpri There was one, but yes I think a new one would be good.
 
Alright, I'll get it ready right now
 
Well, the post is deleted, not sure if you'll be able to view it...
 
Can anyone send me a screenshot?
 
5:36 PM
Sure, just give me a second...
The post I think was a copy off from the blog, but here's the comments:
 
Pretty much a copy, yeah. Then again, it doesn't really need to be much more
 
Meh, i'm tired....
 
What's the time for you? like 11 in the morning?
 
Like, 1 in the afternoon... I'm awake, but I feel out of energy
And of course, what do I do? I come here... :)
 
Standard time-wasting strategy. I've been on here for several hours...
 
5:48 PM
And you're not tired?
 
Nope
For some reason
It's 18:49
 
Evening for you
 
Yep
 
Done
 
Who should nominate this site?
:D
I believe that's everybody...
 
5:51 PM
I AM STUPID!!!!
0
Q: Who should moderate this site?

michaelpriIdeally Moderators are elected by the community, but until this site reaches a critical mass to hold an election, we will be appointing some provisional Moderators to fill that role. We need your help. Please nominate some folks you might like to see become the provisional moderators for this si...

Fixed
 
Nominate... xD
@Zizouz212 You going?
 
@ArtOfCode I already said I was stupid :P
 
I just need to write something, but I think I have to think it through first
I'm still a little concerned of that age thing...
 
Just requested for it to be featured
 
@Zizouz212 If you don't say anything, nobody'll notice. If I didn't know I'd put you about 10 years older.
 
5:54 PM
I don't know...
I feel like people should know, but then I feel like I'll get criticized over it
 
@Zizouz212 I'm only 14
 
Oh god, fine
I'm 15 so...
 
There's a pretty good amount of young moderators
 
@michaelpri FFS I'm just bad at guessing age aren't I?
@Zizouz212 Guess my age.
 
@ArtOfCode How old did you think I was?
 
5:56 PM
Well, didn't you say that you were in university or something?
 
@michaelpri like 20 something
 
@ArtOfCode Hmm
 
@Zizouz212 Did I? I'm not, whatever I said xD
 
@ArtOfCode I would guess 18
 
I don't know, either that, or it sounds like you are, so i would've guess about 20
 
5:58 PM
Heh. 17.
 
Ahh, so close
 
Moral of the story: if you act mature, it's hard to guess age on the Internet.
 
@ArtOfCode Why do you say 25 here then? :P
 
Like this?
 
@ProgramFOX I do that all over the Net, it's a mark from younger days when I probably shouldn't have violated COPPA.
 
5:59 PM
Ah, I see.
 
@Zizouz212 Exactly like you've been acting right the way through this beta.
 
"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" is an adage which began as a cartoon caption by Peter Steiner and published by The New Yorker on July 5, 1993. The cartoon features two dogs: one sitting on a chair in front of a computer, speaking the caption to a second dog sitting on the floor. As of 2011, the panel was the most reproduced cartoon from The New Yorker, and Steiner has earned over US $50,000 from its reprinting. == History == Peter Steiner, a cartoonist and contributor to The New Yorker since 1979, said the cartoon initially did not get a lot of attention, but later took on a life of...
And in my email, I think I'm like 30 or something... :P
 
@Zizouz212 Age doesn't usually matter for moderating if you act mature. I'll admit that I've seen some people say stuff about me being a moderator on Health (granted I did make a few mistakes saying stuff earlier in the site's beta), but it's never been an actual problem
 
People hardly get my age right either. I'm 15, but someone recently sent me an email asking to join a job position, based on my contributions on GitHub. They probably thought I was a lot older.
 
6:02 PM
@michaelpri I've had a number of those off Careers, despite saying 'I am currently a student'
 
Oh don't worry, my dad sent one of my school reports to someone for some reason, and the guy wanted an interview with me...
 
@TrevorClarke - mod-nominations are up if you want a go
 
@ProgramFOX You're only 15?! I would've guessed like 18 or 19
 
Oh my god...
Youngsters are invading!
 
@ArtOfCode they are probably hoping you go intern and flow through into a job
 
6:03 PM
So true
I bet if you did an age study of Stack Exchange you'd get some pretty surprising results
Also a gender study
 
any one up for digging into data.SE then? (for the visible data at least)
 
Well there:
0
A: Who should moderate this site?

Zizouz212Zizouz212 My Meta Profile! I’m Zizouz212, and I would love to be a moderator pro tempore for this site. Coming from Toronto, I’m an enthusiastic young man who is eager about open source in his creative works as well as software. I usually check on at random points on a typical day between 07:...

 
@Zizouz212 You could replace those links with flair
@ratchetfreak SQL? God no.
 
Yeah, I saw yours and realized :)
 
@ratchetfreak There is a query around that shows the highest-rep users below a specific age... let me know if I can find it back.
 
6:07 PM
@Zizouz212 Might also be worth adding your SE overall profile
 
Erm... That might be an embarrassment...
 
@ProgramFOX It's say I'm 15
 
@michaelpri Yeah, it appears to be one year off. Don't know why though.
 
4154 rep? More that 99% of people on SE. You've already outdone most other people by simply participating
 
6:09 PM
It says I'm 16!
 
Okay, thanks :)
Wasn't sure where I stumbled upon it
 
2
Q: Who should moderate this site?

michaelpriIdeally Moderators are elected by the community, but until this site reaches a critical mass to hold an election, we will be appointing some provisional Moderators to fill that role. We need your help. Please nominate some folks you might like to see become the provisional moderators for this si...

 
A Note to All: Go and vote on the Moderator Nominations.
^ I've pinned that instead of the raw URL because it's clearer
 
Smart :)
 
6:18 PM
Ooohh. @Zizouz212 The first to get the Convention badge by approximately 7 hours...
 
:)
I can add to that, second to get Civic Duty, and just one post away from Strunk & White :)
 
Shhhh
 
7:03 PM
@TrevorClarke I assume you're back from your holidays, or whatever they were?
 
He said he was going for 1 week on 27th June so I'm guessing he's back yesterday or today
 
Cool, we won't need to post his nomination for him then, he can do it when he's back :)
 
Wow my quote in the starboard still hasn't died
 
@trichoplax It has from what I see...
 
I'm back :)
 
7:17 PM
@Zizouz212 Evening :)
 
Afternoon :D
 
Oh time zones.
 
@ArtOfCode I see 6 quotes - I guess it depends on screen resolution
 
@trichoplax That'll be it - I see 5
What's your screen px height?
 
768
but I have no open programs bar
 
7:21 PM
Strange... I'm also on 768, with 1366 width
 
And no toolbar
 
Ah that's also it
 
quotes?
 
on the starboard
 
lol, I see 10 :)
 
7:21 PM
I've butchered my screen real estate so I can currently see 6
@Zizouz212 Wow what's your resolution??
 
@Zizouz212 Jess. What are you on, screen-wise?
 
I think it's like 1440 x 900 or something :)
 
900 isn't bad...
On F11 I'm seeing 7
 
Me too
 
Even without the taskbar but no F11 I still see 5
Dimensions are strange
 
7:23 PM
I'm due a new screen - my current one is hanging on by one hinge...
 
That's probably not good
My 'top has survived a surprising amount of stuff
 
I'm in Firefox so I don't have a top bar to the window - the tabs are all pushed up to where the title bar would have been
 
I'm in Chrome, where the same is true
 
Safari :)
 
@Zizouz212 ...
 
7:25 PM
The only other thing I can think of is that there's a list of other rooms you're in - a few rooms on there pushes things off the bottom of the starboard
 
or...
SAFAWEE!
 
@trichoplax Have a genius medal
 
lol
 
No, they're a thing now
 
Yay! Unimportant mystery solved!
 
7:27 PM
They became a thing in Chatbot Dev where people kept solving impenetrable issues
(and unimportant mysteries, but that's unimportant)
@Zizouz212 What's this about a proposed SE site for urban planning? It doesn't appear to be on A51.
 
I proposed it, but I don't know anyone to share it with, and it never got any followers...
 
So it got deleted?
 
I think I deleted it myself after a couple weeks...
 
Go propose it again :) I'm in
 
Alright. Sure :)
Should I put it under Culture or Professional?
 
7:37 PM
Professional probably, what's the list of categories?
 
Arts, Business, Culture, Life, Professional, Recreation, Science and Technology
 
Ooh. Hard. Technology is possible but probably wouldn't fit. There's some science to it but not enough really. Professional is the best fit I think.
 
That's what I was thinking too. Putting it there :D
How's this?
For officials involved with planning of cities and towns, as well as transport networks and green spaces.
 
Don't make it solely for officials. You also want experts, enthusiasts, etc
 
enthusiasts in there? Normally, you want to get the experts first, but I'll add the experts part in there :)
 
7:43 PM
Hang on, let me find some good descriptions
 
Sure :)
 
"For those involved with or interested in" might cut it
 
Is this better?
For officials and experts involved with the planning and structure of cities and towns, transport networks, green spaces and infrastructure, and those interested in urban environments.
 
Better, yes, but I think your last clause adds some scope which seems to be only for the interested people.
Does having it at the front not work?
 
What about this then?
For officials and experts involved with urban environments, particularly the planning and structure of cities and towns, transport networks, green spaces and infrastructure.
 
7:46 PM
Works for me.
I suppose it can be edited?
 
Going ahead :D
And yes, I'm pretty sure you can edit it
1
Urban Planning

Proposed Q&A site for officials and experts involved with urban environments, particularly the planning and structure of cities and towns, transport networks, green spaces and infrastructure.

Currently in definition.

 
Good, now to post that everywhere I can.
 
Yep :D
And then think of questions as well :D
 
There's one
 
I've never heard of or seen that before...
 
7:56 PM
You wouldn't, given you're in Canada, but Google it.
 
It looks... interesting
 
I have no idea how people don't die on that thing more often.
 
So there's not a lot of accidents?
 
No, surprisingly. I haven't looked up the stats, but it's fairly low.
 
That's... impressive!
 
7:58 PM
I also don't know why they didn't just use a regular roundabout.
 
Does it get a lot of traffic?
 
A fair amount actually:
That's low traffic
It gets a lot higher in rush hour
 
key is the large amount of lanes
a normal roundabout has only 1 lane
 
So that's how roundabouts reproduce
 
which can take maybe 1200 vehicles an hour
even the double lane roundabouts aren't that much better, only 30% of traffic uses the inner lane
 
8:04 PM
The pictured one has an anticlockwise central roundabout surrounded by clockwise orbital roundabouts. That in itself sounds like asking for trouble
 
as long as there is good signalling it should work out
 
@ratchetfreak There are no traffic lights anywhere on that entire roundabout...
and @trichoplax you see now why I'm surprised at the low death count
 
South branch has lights for the fire department
 
The world needs robot drivers
 
@ratchetfreak It does?
 
I think that's more intended as a pedestrian crossing, but there are indeed lights there
There are on the other entrances too, it seems.
Just no lights within the system
 
doesn't need them
as long as everyone respect the priorities
 
Yeah, in a perfect world...
 
and a roundabout with traffic lights will just get you laughed at
 
@ratchetfreak I see a lot of roundabouts with traffic lights on them
Motorway junction roundabouts often have them
 
8:12 PM
I've seen worse: a roundabout with a zebra crossing on every exit and entrance
 
Ouch
 
@trichoplax that's not horrible
if the foot traffic is low
 
It's near the city centre
I just think the idea of stopping traffic as it leaves the roundabout makes no sense
 
traffic lights can put a lot more traffic through if designed properly
 
I think roundabouts in 3d work well
Flyovers and unders
 
8:15 PM
if you have the space for them
 
yes good point
 
Here's a roundabout with traffic lights
 
in an ideal world there would be no need for crossing traffic at all
@ArtOfCode that's large enough that lights are warranted
I mean smaller things
 
LOL
 
In a decade or two all cars will self drive and traffic control will be of historical interest only
 
8:17 PM
People really are discussing that the question about legal weight of open source licenses is unclear?
 
@Mnementh Enjoying the random discussion?
 
While I already had answered and I thought really I understood the question
 
6 people are agreeing that what I wrote is indeed an answer to this unclear question
0
Q: Looking for a legally-strong open source license

Jon Mark PerryMost licenses available do not seem to carry any legal weight. Are there any Open Source licenses that do? The old copyright laws used to impose a monetary fine for infringement, but then how do the newer licenses deal with infringement? What resources do I have available if the terms of the "new...

@ArtOfCode I can add random
I asked about a book I'm currently reading over at SF&F - and an answerer just took the question to the author
That's like cheating :-)
3
A: Is Dharia a matriarchy?

RichardUpdate: I spoke to my new friend Susan Kaye Quinn a little earlier and posed her this question. She was kind enough to provide some additional detail about Dharian political life; in short, Dharia practices a form of female-preference primogeniture. If a female heir is born, they take precedence ...

 
@Mnementh/@trichoplax/@ratchetfreak Have you done your voting on the nominations yet?
 
8:21 PM
Carry on discussing roundabouts, I just had to drop some thoughts
@ArtOfCode yes
 
Good :)
 
@ArtOfCode you don't know who I voted for, so don't say good :-)
 
Bad :(
xD
Good was more because you've voted, which is what I'm trying to encourage everyone to do
 
Not much nominations so far though, we need more I think
 
@ArtOfCode Have done, but will drop back in from time to time in case there is more voting to be done
 
8:22 PM
@Mnementh @TrevorClarke was planning to post one, and I'm sure other people would like to
 
@ArtOfCode: Post what? You're already nominated? confused
 
@Mnementh self nominations are allowed
 
^^
 
Self nominations are encouraged
 
Ah, I just decoded what you wrote, you mean TrevorClarke was planning to nominate himself
 
8:26 PM
yeah that
 
@TrevorClarke have you seen that we can now nominate mods?
 
Didn't he also said, that he can't be online at that time and wanted someone else to nominate him?
 
He went away, but he's coming back soon so he can do it himself
He's also been around sporadically, and was on earlier
 
OK, fine then
 
I think he's in the same timezone as @Zizouz212
 
8:27 PM
shouldn't nominations be open for some time?
 
He was away for 1 week, 8 days ago
 
They'll be open until they're not ;) i.e. when the CMs pick mods
 
8:53 PM
To get back on roundabouts the only thing they are good for is to put artwork on the island.
 
We don't have much of that :(
 
09:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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