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12:03 AM
@HDE226868 ostensibly you can ignore the user if you don't want to see the messages
@ratchetfreak I know, but do a significant amount of people really want to see them at all? I doubt that more than a few want it. For now, I think I'll remove that user. Lack of chat activity is making the effect even bigger. I feel like I'm stumbling around in a field of giant balloons.
HDE 226868 has stopped a feed from being posted into this room
And I've popped the balloons.
Hey! What happened to The Bikeshed??? — Zizouz212 13 mins ago
Indeed. Why is that suggestion gone?
1:19 AM
Q: Call to nominate candidates for Pro Tem Moderator

kdopenSE Recommend in their blog that this question be opened early to help them identify Pro-tem Moderators for the public beta stage, so: Moderator Qualities About a week into the public beta, SE will seek out members who are deeply engaged in the community’s development; members who: Have a reas...

1:43 AM
A: What are our main risks of not getting to public beta?

GillesIn terms of quantity, we're doing fine. A private beta should produce about 100–200 questions, and we already have 84 as I write, 63 of which are not closed. But quantity is not everything. Scope Almost half the questions are tagged license. Not all license-related questions have this tag, so ...

Yes, this post is negative. Yes, it's warranted.
2:23 AM
Q: Bad questions, or bad understanding?

Zizouz212I noticed that from this post that we have a substantial amount of questions closed... We have 84 questions And 180 answers Pretty good, isn't it? Of the 84 questions, 21 are closed at the time of this writing. That's 25%. Exactly 25%. Reasons for closure: (I likely missed a few...) Too B...

5 hours later…
7:07 AM
@HDE226868 Maybe for badge? Doesn't matter, I think the consensus is/was obvious.
Even if OP retracted their suggestion, it's still a valid suggested room name.
2 hours later…
9:13 AM
9:43 AM
@Gilles: Well, I can ask some questions about philosophy and history of open source and free software. Downside is: I know the answers to all these questions. I will ask them in some hour-intervals, as I don't like it if one user floods the site with a lot of questions at once.
What does the 'right to fork' mean?: opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/345/…
@Mnementh eek another law question
1 hour later…
11:07 AM
@Unihedron: No, that is philosophical in nature, the law is only to make it happen. But yeah, I see how you can see it as law-connected. I try harder.
11:31 AM
And votes to close, as I come up with a question that isn't entirely about licensing issues: opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/348/…
12:00 PM
Q: Should we just allow open source?

MnementhIn the question Are NC Creative Commons licenses on topic? I argued that the NC-clause of Creative Commons (and ND for that matter) isn't conforming to Open Source (while CC-BY and CC-SA are). But in the commentaries we discussed the point, if the site might include it anyways. So, should stuff b...

12:33 PM
Q: Are FAQs on-topic?

TichodromaThis question is asking a question that can easily be answered by reading the resources from the well known resources (FSF and OSI). I think such a question is a FAQ regarding Free Software and Open Source. Are FAQs on-topic on this site?

Q: Is this meta tag on topic & in scope?

TRiGOn this meta site, we have the tags on-topic and scope. These would appear to be redundant. Could we set one as a synonym of the other?

12:58 PM
Third day hitting the reputation cap. Finally I could review the tag-wiki-submissions.
2 hours later…
3:01 PM
Q: How many of us regularly contribute to open source projects?

trichoplaxI use open source software, and I am interested in becoming a contributor, but at present I am not. I think the best expert level questions will come from people who have regular experience at working on open source software (not just using it). People who have seen what problems need to be addre...

3:39 PM
@Mnementh I have no clue how you've got so much rep...
@Mnementh I agree with @Zizouz212. You must have loads of accepted answers, to be 200 above what the rep cap alone gives you.
Exactly. I just simply don't get it...
He's just a super super special person. ;)
I've hit it twice and am halfway there today, but that leaves me on 600ish with no accepts.
Anyways, how should we begin about establishing a solid version of the scope?
I was thinking having a single post with a single comm wiki answer where people can just add the results from their threads... I feel like it could change drastically throughout the course of the next few days. It will be different from what we thought in Area 51.
@Zizouz212 That's nebulous. The scope isn't something we can document in all its extremities: we simply have to bring up points about it on Meta as they come up, and refer to them when necessary. Of course, we have the help/on-topic page, but it can't and shouldn't document everything that is and isn't on topic here. We've just got to let it happen.
3:49 PM
Perhaps, but I feel that there may be disputes arising and things may not be clear.
@Zizouz212 that's what the beta phase is for
let them arise and settle it in meta
I understand that beta will bring all the disputes, but what about their results? I feel as if that people will not get each one and we won't be clear with the entire community.
that's what enforcement is for
the community gets the power to collectively enforce the results of the issue
with disputes they can't agree on it's the mods task to get a concensus
I suppose.
On that subject, who looks likely for mods?
3:59 PM
Heh. I suppose. Also @Mnementh, our resident rep-eater.
Top 5 users are currently Mnementh, Zizouz, me, Madara Uchiha, kdopen.
Who knows? We might have a surprise. The community team reaches out to people they look up to, and it's not usually by rep. One time the highest rep user in a beta ranted on MSE about not getting appointed for pro-tem mod while someone with half their rep got appointed.
Ooh sorry I zoned out. Mods?
It's not like we're on LH.SE. :P
4:02 PM
We do have a lot of good users up the top of our leaderboard...
The biggest rep guy who's rep doesn't make sense!
Who's top for rep?
I don't think I'm a good mod, others should go. Although I will go through the review-queue, if I have time.
@Zizouz212 Who do you think is top for rep??
And for my rep: 32 answers of which 7 are accepted - mystery solved.
There it is then
4:03 PM
I'm there?
600 + (7*15) = 705... still not enough
Questions too I assume, some edits maybe
810 rep for Mnementh...
Don't forget the association bonus too. :)
In the top 3 lines of the leaderboard, I see 3 mods from other sites and most of the names I recognise.
+100 association bonus + 2 answers I accepted (each giving 2 points which to my surprise don't go into the cap)
Ah yes. 805 so far then.
4:05 PM
So we're missing 1 point... that's the initial point, isn't it?
+1 everyone had from the start
Plus the mandatory point. :)
Rep calculated. :)
Yaay! Prizes for all :D
4:06 PM
So who would you guys like to see as mod? I've got some bets on who might make it...
I'd kinda want to be mod, but I don't know if people would take a 15 yr old seriously...
@Zizouz212 If you don't tell them, they will. I guessed you were youngish but not that young.
Compare: guess my age.
Top revievers close votes: Zizouz212, kdopen, ArtOfCode, HDE 226868
@Mnementh why does this not surprise me?
@ArtOfCode Madara!
4:08 PM
@Unihedron That's one of my bets :)
Oooh an LQ review
The named people also are present for reviewing queue first posts and low quality posts
I'm in the top 4 for all review queues I've been to... whoops.
@Zizouz212 There are many mods on SE that are 15 or younger. That's no problem.
4:10 PM
@ProgramFOX Okay. That makes me feel hopeful! :)
@ratchetfreak I forgot that existed, thanks!
@Zizouz212 I always take you seriously!
@ratchetfreak Cool, interesting stats
Except if you're joking!
Ahh, you guys are awesome!
4:11 PM
Even when you're joking. I have no sense of humor. Hi, I'm Unihedron.
lol worst ice breaker ever
@Unihedron Humor? What's that?
I think it's the name of an open source module for chatbots.
Hey, can I ask for advice from some of the more seasoned SE people? I'm wondering if it's possible for my question to get reopened and not be too broad. Anyone willing to help?
@CanadianLuke I can help if you want? What's the question in question?
Q: How do I attract new programmers?

Canadian LukeI am working on a project, currently by myself. It's a side project, I'm not expecting to make money on it. It's posted on GitHub, and I'm going to be building a project page for it. Once it's built, how do I get other programmers to want to contribute? I am checking in code constantly, but no o...

4:12 PM
Walk down a street with a bunch of citrus fruit. When walking past an attractive lady, drop it. After some time spent trying to retrieve them, look her straight in the eye, and say "Sorry, I'm bad at pickup limes."
Joke time now?
@ArtOfCode ...
@CanadianLuke More experienced says the mod. Okay, I'll take a look - I think I was one of the closers.
@Unihedron You don't like my terrible puns?
I ain't judging
@ArtOfCode You're a very punny guy, it's awww-some
4:14 PM
@CanadianLuke I'm also good at reopening questions. There's your final vote.
If only I was punful...
Thanks, but I don't want it to stay open if it's a bad question. Obviously, something needs to be changed so 5 other users won't VTC it as well
@CanadianLuke I closed it originally because it seemed far too broad, but after some time on the site it seems many questions are fairly broad, so perhaps we need to raise the broad bar a little.
@ArtOfCode Maybe just for the private beta though.
I don't think we want to see many of those questions in public and afterwards
Well, I'm not a mod on that site, and don't think I will. I'd rather fix it now, rather than wait for later
4:16 PM
@Zizouz212 I think we need to just see how it goes. If lots of our questions are like that but get answered well, we can just have a higher bar. If they're not getting answered well, then yes they shouldn't be here.
Well, obviously! But if questions are just becoming duplicate and the community isn't settled with it, then perhaps. For now, I agree, let's let it go
I've voted to reopen this because after some time on the site, it seems many of our questions are of similar scope and are getting answered well. It seems we can tolerate a higher level of broadness than many other sites. — ArtOfCode 22 secs ago
Don't worry, no level of toleration is too high - look at computer science se
Taking a look...
Well, I appreciate that
Also, I got a 92 in computer science. Yaay! :)
4:18 PM
I feel it has some great answers on it
Oh yeah, if computer science isn't broad, we're perfectly fine
@ArtOfCode Your second place for rep. :)
@Zizouz212 I've just pipped you on rep. 619-617
Heh. We sent that at pretty much the same time.
I up voted you. :)
Not for the sake of a vote, but cause it was a pretty good answer as well
Aahh that's where the other upvote came from.
I got +20. One was probably from OP, so the other was probably yours.
I up voted the one you just answered.
4:23 PM
And there's another +10. Roll in the upvotes.
And another.
+138 so far today.
@Mnementh Shall never know! Pss A secret plan to get @ArtOfCode past Mnementh!
@Zizouz212 Careful we don't accidentally start serially upvoting :)
Oh no, the other up votes weren't mine. Those were from someone else
Also, is nobody going to challenge my community promotion ad?
@Zizouz212 Good good then :)
@ArtOfCode Why should we?
4:25 PM
Anyways, I'm heading out for about an hour. See ya then!
@Unihedron Because it's useless, frankly...
@Zizouz212 Later :)
@ArtOfCode I have no better idea and horrible design-skills.
@Mnementh I didn't think mine were much good either..
@ArtOfCode You didn't see what I would cook up.
@Mnementh Now I'm curious...
4:30 PM
LOL, better not, you would scream in agony ;-)
@Mnementh Hmmm... yeah okay then.
Now this would be interesting: what's the ratio of mods male to female on StackExchange?
4:46 PM
@Mnementh I'm about to throw a whole load of wiki reviews your way...
Q: Do we want recommendation/shopping questions?

AndyQuestion in question: How to keep open source projects up to date This question is asking for software recommendations that is commonly utilized for version control (though doesn't mention "version control" by name). Is this type of question on topic here?

@Pandya An interesting read.
@Mnementh not mine to add to. Instead, I'm adding it to this.
@Pandya: I think you could add to the Beta. Do you have access to opensource.SE?
5:16 PM
@Pandya I disagree somewhat. Most of the free licenses still allow for tivoization. Only a few have taken precaution against it. So tivoization is nothing that open source has and free software doesn't.
The example Android for instance is based on the free licenses Apache and GPL
@Unihedron doe.
Btw, I will start Q&A tomorrow; (there is goodnight in my region)
@Unihedron (type mistake -doe) I've done (created account on opensource.SE)
good bye
5:36 PM
Aaaannnd there's the rep cap. Though I might still have some to go because I got an accept..
6:03 PM
Q: Are questions about collaborative development on-topic

kdopenI haven't found our site's "mission statement" yet, so consider this another step in developing one. Will we consider questions about collaborative development in general to be on-topic. Although this type of development is common in many endeavours, it - and the problems it entails - is parti...

@Pandya @Mnementh I can raise that in my answer in your link :)
@Zizouz212 Hello again :)
I'm back! :)
I noticed :)
In other news, I've hit the rep cap again
So what are you at now?
6:14 PM
@Zizouz212 716. Went slightly over the cap (by 15) because of an accept.
Oooh nice. I'm at like 662 or something...
So now you're second place?
6:48 PM
@Zizouz212 Fraid I overtook you ;)
Ahh it's fine. Rep doesn't mean much to me anyway. :/
@Zizouz212 I foresee us being pretty equal on rep terms anyway. You'll catch up, I'll take it back, etc.
It's like a race without a clear winner!
Exactly! Not that it's competitive or anything...
7:10 PM
Q: What time is Stack Exchange in?

Trevor ClarkeI reached my reputation cap for today and was wondering when it will be tomorrow.. I know it is not the same time as where I am now!! If anyone could tell me the timezone that would be amazing!

7:48 PM
Q: Will this be a place where everybody feels that duty calls?

TichodromaI have the impression that many of us (including me) are working hard to make this site a place where everybody feels that duty calls. Is this impression wrong? Will this site primarily be opinion based?

7:59 PM
Q: When will this open to the public?

Trevor ClarkeWhen will the Open Source stack exchange open to the public? Will this be a quick process or will it be a while before this happends? How will it work?

8:34 PM
Q: When do you think it is appropriate to start electing moderators?

Trevor ClarkeWhile the site has only been open for a couple of days, although I still think we could discuss when you think we should elect moderators. I think in roughly a week when the dedicated users have had a chance to show their initiative .

8:48 PM
I see I have missed a busy past 20 hours.
9:10 PM
@MetaData I saw this in the feed and my first reaction was, "Why does every beta have to have a conversation about pooping?"
@Air Groan.
@HDE226868 What does that mean? HDE are you pooping? HDE pls respond
@Air Haha.
Q: Will "software" be an implicit tag for every question not categorized in another way?

AirPrior to the beta launch, there was discussion of whether this site would be limited in scope to open source software. The strong consensus was behind an answer that argues: If the scope does not include significant areas of interest to just the open-source world (licensing, hardware, DIY p...

Would that even be safe? Electricity near liquid?
9:13 PM
I was a bit late, but I added an opposing answer to that question.
@HDE226868 Nothing wrong with electricity near water, provided proper safety precautions are in place :-)
I can't believe I'm in a conversation about this.
Simple fix. Remove the safety precautions, no more conversation!
People seemed to almost unanimously agree with the only answer though, so maybe I'm just objectively wrong :]
@overactor It usually looks that way, when only one side bothers to show up. Thanks for providing a place for those who feel differently to hang their votes.
9:20 PM
You make a good point about following the tag.
@Air Yeah, just having one side represented felt wrong.
@HDE226868 It is the most tangible reason to keep the tag around.
wow, almost 300 users.
Really? Have people been inviting more?
Does that include community managers?
@trichoplax It appears it does.
It's still a great number
It would do, yes, but there aren't huge numbers of them. That means we've got +50 ish users from those who actually signed up for the beta.
9:27 PM
@trichoplax I suppose so, only about 160 people who commited signed up so far
: For questions that are on hold due to not being about open source code
@overactor To avoid influencing how yours is received, I'll unaccept the other. I honestly don't feel too strongly either way, I think both arguments are good.
strange, beside the 'review'-link I see a one, but if I click on review the queues are empty
@Mnementh Review queues lie on all SE sites
@Mnementh It happens. It's a known issue. That's how many posts need to be reviewed by anyone.
9:34 PM
Ah, so that's one I skipped because I wasn't sure.
is the traditional cause of all problems, whether actually caused by caching or not
9:55 PM
@Zizouz212 Sorry for the abruptness on my deletion of the question; I felt it was too similar to the other and might be answered there. I also phrased it a bit unclearly, looking back.
I want to be careful to ask good questions during private beta.
@HDE226868 No Worries. :)
10:22 PM
@Air That seems fair, we'll see how thing develop from here.
By the way, could we add the OSI rss feed to this chat?
@overactor What would the purpose of that be though?
To inspire new questions?
To keep up with open source news?
Perhaps, but could we put that in a separate room? I fear that with meta alerts and other things being automatically added that the main room will just become a feed
We could have a feed room or something, where people could comment on them. It would probably reduce clutter too
@Zizouz212 They seem to use it roughly once a week, can't see that leading to too much clutter.
10:33 PM
Oh okay. The other question to that would be whether we want other feeds coming in too, rather than solely open source
I could ask the same about the xkcd feed, but I might get burned at the stake for questioning its presence.
@overactor it isn't
it often gets added on the whim of a mod
It can be removed at the touch of a button, if you wish.
Button(s), actually.
10:38 PM
It was added earlier today/yesterday (depending on timezone) and flooded chat with the last 4 comics :)
I don't mind it popping up 3 times a week
I'm not too bothered by it really.
I like xkcd just as much as the next guy
It's guaranteed to occasionally be relevant
Can we add feeds at the click of some buttons too? And if so, who is allowed to click those buttons?
Thankfully only room owners can
(although we can have multiple room owners, right?)
@trichoplax Oh god, I can only imagine how exploitable the opposite would be.
10:44 PM
Oh well. It sounds good for me.
It would be war
@trichoplax Even worse...
Who is going to ask the 100th question?
We have to have xkcd as it's where @HDE226868 comes from
@trichoplax Hey!
10:46 PM
@overactor How do I tell if I did?
Q: Source code or binaries? How important is this?

trichoplaxMost open source projects provide precompiled binaries for a variety of platforms in addition to the source code. How important is it to download the source code and compile it yourself?

@trichoplax It looks like you did.
@Zizouz212 What was that at?
The 100th question...
@trichoplax Haha.
10:47 PM
I happened to be typing it when @overactor asked lol
Which I posted so everyone would know for you :)
There are four mods active on this site (that I know of): Me, Air, Madara Uchiha, and Gilles.
I literally go and look 5 seconds later:
1 Question with new Activity
And I'm like wlahhhhh!
Trevor Clarke probably did
@Zizouz212 this is the 100th question that isn't currently deleted
10:48 PM
@Gilles ?
Ooooh Deleted questions...
Who deleted a question?
@trichoplax and chat moderators (people with their name in blue)
@Gilles This is very likely subject to chang
@overactor yes
Ahhhh. Makes sense
@Zizouz212 I deleted two, within ~10 minutes of posting each.
10:49 PM
You did?
@Gilles So the next person could be 100th if they save up rep and delete an old question...
Delete one, let someone ask a question to make them feel proud, and then ruin it for them by undeleting it :)
That sounds so evil...
@Zizouz212 The one today and a history one yesterday, which I realized was boring once I read over it. And it asked about motivation (though motivation that could be answered rather easily), which Air wisely pointed out could lead to me getting some hell for.
10:50 PM
@Gilles Does this mean moderators from any site can add feeds to this chat?
@trichoplax yes
N.B. can doesn't mean should
Wise words
What's up with the url containing 392 though, are all posts numbered uniquely?
I wouldn't be surprised
@trichoplax Mod chat privileges are network-wide, as are notifications about flagged chat messages. . . Unfortunately.
10:51 PM
Does that include answers?
Each post and answer has a different number
that's unique
@overactor Yes. Posts are numbered sequentially. This includes questions, answers, tag wiki bodies, tag wiki excerpts, and a few exotic things
The answer to the one @trichoplax just posted is 393, while the question is 392
@HDE226868 That must be a pain when someone unhelpful hops from chat to chat
@trichoplax A little bit.
10:52 PM
@Zizouz212 I have an answer already??
Yep. By the rep guy ;D
@Mnementh You don't mind if I call you that? I still believe its impossible for you to have that much...
2 and a bit days in, 200 per day, 810. What's the problem? :)
That's 400 a day....
Am I the only one that sees this?
10:57 PM
810 - 200 - 200 - 200 - 100 association = 110 in accepted answers = about 7 accepted answers. Maybe it's possible after all
Does anyone have any clue how we could reach those roughly 90 commiters that haven't joined the beta yet?
@Zizouz212 LOL, obviously it is possible :-)
But still, I don't believe it!
@overactor No. ~50% committers participating in the private beta is typical.
@overactor I find that only 50% of committers join in private betas
Then only about 10-15% join afterwards
The rest, well who knows...
10:57 PM
We're doing quite well then.
as I've said before, we have no problem with quantity
We're at 62.9% right now. Which is pretty good...
@trichoplax Yes, I have 7 accepted answers
@Mnementh Still, I don't believe it.
we have problems with scope and quality
10:58 PM
@Gilles point taken.
@Gilles I agree. We've got a lot of issues right now which aren't resolved.
this site is currently heavily slanted towards licensing 101
@Zizouz212 Just believe ;-)
I'm doing my best to ask borderline off topic questions to get the scope defined
having so few expert questions in the private beta is worrying
10:59 PM
@Gilles Actually, we need more questions in marketing and organizing.
and being solely about licenses doesn't make a sustainable site
People just seem to think that we're all licenses and that's the only thing about open source.
We've attached ourselves so badly to osi that its biting us back
@trichoplax My only question so far was also of that kind
With any other topic, the possible questions might run out and then we'd see others, but licensing questions will never run out
but deemed off topic (probably deservedly)
11:00 PM
@overactor But that's still part of defining the scope - so it was worth asking
@trichoplax I like to think so
I should probably also get to asking about what to do about a contributer who does more damage than good
@Zizouz212 Hmm, marketing, what can someone ask about marketing in connection to open source?
That was a controversial one on area 51
This is what we've got so far: open source, marketing projects, organizing projects (as per area 51), copyright, creative commons, collaboration (as long as related to open source) and that's all I can find on meta
and licensing, but thats obvious
@overactor I'd say that's relevant, and either way it needs asking so the community can decide
11:02 PM
I like creative commons, it moves us away from purely software a bit
I like it two. It allows us to go creative :)
Well, too...
But I feel as if we need other things, stating that this is open source already sounds slightly discouraging to broadening the scope (and the other fact that all of our questions are pretty much about licensing)
@Mnementh I guess marketing open source is different from business marketing in that you can sell it like a charity and get people/businesses/organisations to contribute to spreading the word
@trichoplax You also have to overcome the bias that open source is not as mature as proprietary sometimes
Ah yes
@trichoplax I try to think of a question in this direction, but I have difficulties. Probably I'm too much software dev and too less marketing...
11:06 PM
Should we discuss how good subjective / bad subjective applies to our site on meta?
We should
@Mnementh There's are problem, we're all too much dev and not enough everything else
I'm not even dev...
Perhaps my lack of any useful experience can be put to use?
Damn, it seems I'm going to miss a lot of activity here in my timezone.
Neither am I really, we can be used as a bad example
Typing in the title of a new question and seeing that 4 of the questions that se considers related are closed is likely not a good sign...
11:12 PM
Not necessarily - they may broader or less well defined versions of your question.
@ArtOfCode Which zone?
Q: How do I deal with (enthusiastic) contributors who damage more than they help?

overactorFrom time to time, an open source project will attract contributors who have a lot of enthusiasm, but lack skill, knowledge (or patience to know the project). These contributors can cause clutter, put off other contributors or sometimes directly harm the project. Assuming that this contributor i...

Any sugestions?
No votes up or down but 2 stars already - people are getting their popcorn ready
11:27 PM
@overactor Reminds me of a question good for Community Building.
@overactor I know it's more of a hypothetical question to test the scope, but I've added a comment asking for clarification so the answers can be slightly more specific
@trichoplax Should I pick one of the two or keep it general?
@overactor Could it make 2 questions or would they be too similar?
@trichoplax I was thinking they might be
I guess if they don't need to make pull requests then the answers will just be "don't let everyone have that access"
Whereas if they don't have access to make pull requests and they are still managing to clutter things up and slow everyone down then that seems to warrant more in depth answers
11:36 PM
@trichoplax I favorite some questions I want to look at after I got new votes - my daily limit was up hours ago.
@Mnementh Then I take back my cynical assumption :)
Plus, that's a great idea - I might try that
Way past midnight here, I should hit the hay. I doubt anything I post now does make any sense.
Well, not that it make sense if I'm awake ... :-)
11:53 PM
@overactor By the way, I know quite a few people in the creative works (I do a lot of creative stuff)? Should I send them a shout?
@Zizouz212 This one?
@HDE226868 Especially, but also the ones that will pop up later on

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