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12:30 AM
What do you call blending where you pick the highest of two color components? Sorta like this:
r = math.max(src.r, dest.r);
g = math.max(src.g, dest.g);
b = math.max(src.b, dest.b);
a = math.max(src.a, dest.a);
I'm currently using additive for my lighting engine, but I have a feeling a color blending like that might give a nicer effect, but I want to know if it's a defined blending type, or if it's something new I'll have to make myself.
 
1:23 AM
@MindWorX I don't think that has a name, per se.
 
I would've thought so
Time to get creative!
 
But note that you cannot program the blending operation with the framebuffer, so you'll need both source colors in the shader.
 
I coin the blend mode... Maxitive!
 
I guess component-wise-maximum would be reasonable
 
Hm
I think I need to figure out exactly how blendmodes work
 
1:41 AM
they blend the output of your pixel shader with the framebuffer
according to the mathematics of the operation you specify
 
2:04 AM
Ah
So I guess the reason there's no maximum blend state is because it can't be done with mathematics?
 
 
12 hours later…
2:00 PM
@thedaian, heh, Nice rant:
2
A: What technologies are required for 3D game development?

thedaian And I want to start from very start. Please tell me the skills, technologies that one should posses while making it. Start from the very start, eh? Well, first you're going to need to know math. A lot of math. Algebra, Trigonometry, Matrix Rotations, and a whole lot of physics if you wa...

Sadly, it's mostly true. :(
A few days ago, I did a depressing calculation to put hobby projects into perspective:
I used World of Goo as a reference point with lots and lots of assumptions. World of Goo had 2 developers and took 2 years to complete. Assuming that your hobby project is half as complex (will take half as long) as World of Goo, that your team of N would be as effective as their team of 2, that they worked 40-hour weeks with 2-weeks of vacation, and that your team would effectively put out 26 man-hours of work per week, you could finish in just under 3 years
((2 years / 2) * (52 - 2) weeks/year * 40 hours/week * 2) / 26 hours/week * 1 = 2.94851767 years
:(
 
2:23 PM
nice bit of math :)
 
:( thanks
I think I just killed half of the hobby projects in here
 
hopefully not.
 
Yeah, hopefully people will look at the math and decide to make their game one eighth the complexity of World of Goo and have small teams
 
lol
 
@JohnMcDonald I'd add "If you want results faster, start modding. Like the guys who did Team Fortress, Counter Strike or Nehrim." if you care about encouraging people to make games anyway. :)
 
2:26 PM
heh, yeah. Those mods didn't take a short period of time either though
:p
I know because I've tried
 
hobby projects are good to have, and there's ways to speed things up, like Martin said.
 
You see results way faster though, which is a big plus.
 
mods, using existing engines, heck, map making in starcraft is fast
 
Yeah, map making for SC
@Martin, and yes, you do get to see stuff faster, and it is a lot of fun
 
3:21 PM
@JohnMcDonald i managed to do the clock sync, now i'm change the logic a bit to adjust to it :D
*i'm gonna
 
Cool
fyi, You can edit chat messages, and it's the next best thing to sliced bread
 
hahah good to know, editted
 
It makes me wish that MSN or XMPP (google talk) would implement the feature
</aside>
 
specially when you are talking to a girl :D
 
3:30 PM
hi girl, i want to -censored- with you.
 
there we go, edits message to say "eat"
 
@JohnMcDonald That question makes me rage.
 
they'd just click the pencil button to see the history
 
@JoshPetrie heh, yeah, I can't blame you
 
3:36 PM
So many close votes required ;(
 
"Why should I make a 2D game first when I want to make a 3D game?" </silly voice>
 
The part that makes me rage the most is when he dismisses UDK and Unity
because they do the work for the developer
 
:/ yeah
 
there's... a reason i posted what amounts to a rant...
 
heh, and a reason I +1ed your answer
 
3:40 PM
Yes but did you do your civic duty and vote to close that crud? Eh? EH?
(I didn't read the answers yet)
 
i would vote to close but i can't :P
i need about 40 more rep...
 
wat
 
er... no, 1,040 more rep
 
huh i thought you were higher. there's an unfortunately small number of active users who can actually cast close votes right now -- only something like 24? discounting the diamond mods.
 
all i can do now is flag it
yeah, it's kind of annoying :(
 
3:42 PM
I'm a long way from being able to close stuff
 
same, it's a good incentive to grind out some answers though
you can get maybe 50 points for ranting an answer out every time someone asks "I'm about the make a game like Oblivion -- where do I start?"
so just wait for 20ish more of those questions and you can start closing them
 
lol
 
hahaha
 
Make some templates, one for: World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Need for Speed, Baldur's Gate, Age of Empires, etc.
 
I do have to say I like the trend of the few people that have been diligently editing questions to have actual questions in them
there are some pretty bad examples out there
 
3:56 PM
"put the question in the question" hehe.
Yeah, it bugs me when the titles aren't in question form.
 
really tempted to go through and close all those "list of resources" questions
or ask the bigger question, is "where can I find" questions on-topic?
 
the "list of resources" questions are good as a place to point when someone asks "where can i learn to draw better" or "how do i art?", but they might be good to either close or protect
 
I think they're bad questions, but they seem to keep surviving. So long as they are CW, I care a little less.
 
I find "list of resources" questions really helpful
I have a lot of them favorited on SO
 
And some of them -- finding free texture or sprite resources -- are useful for game development. I've thought about suggesting they be closed/protected and the top-voted results moved to the relevant tag wiki. But I don't think tag wikis get read as often as they'd need to be for that to work
It's also egregiously difficult to edit tag wikis, in my opinion.
 
4:04 PM
man, you need to get 20k rep to edit tag wikis? that's... annoying :(
 
Or have the bronze tag badge.
 
that's almost harder
 
Yeah; 100 upvotes across 20 questions.
 
there should be some kind of limit based on a particular SE's distribution
these numbers are geared towards a SO/SF/Programmers.SE level of activity
 
there's been a few attempts to change required numbers based on SE activity, but it's generally shot down (it kind of makes sense, but...)
 
4:06 PM
gamedev.stackexchange.com/badges?tab=tags and for the most part, it's mostly Tetrad and I who have them -- and we're already reasonably close to 20k.
Yeah it makes sense, because readjusting upwards as activity spools up would be a bit weird. I think it works out reasonably well, but still.
 
I dunno, I think a dual-limit system would be good
like, either top 10% OR the hard limit
 
well I could have zero rep and still do whatever I want to thanks to mod status
 
I'm not sure why but once every few weeks there is a time period That I can't answer any questions!
I mean there is either no question or I don't know answer to any of them!
 
I think that happens to most people.
 
heh, yup
Then other weeks there are too many questions to answer that you can't get around to them all
 
4:22 PM
there's nothing wrong with not being able to answer a question. happens a lot in my case, especially when people ask about rendering techniques or physics or something
 
but I think it's a bit weird, There is a week that for every question I'm the first one to answer, the next week I can't answer questions, for some questions I can't even understand what he is asking!
 
It's not that weird.
And to be honest a disturbingly large number of questions can be answered by Google.
 
wow, they have graphs now!
 
gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/18234/… for example -- took me a few minutes with a search engine to figure out.
 
4:26 PM
The secret's out: Tetrad is a werewolf
 
Indeed; September was apparently a boring month for me gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/1430/josh-petrie?tab=reputation
 
there was actually one day where I earned negative rep due to downvoting a bunch of questions and not posting anything
 
do you have a limit on downvotes?
 
well, that and somebody un-accepted my "they're just 3d models I don't know what you're asking" answer
I think I have the same limit as everybody else
 
wow, the guy even put a bounty on that question, @JoshPetrie
 
4:28 PM
That's what encouraged me to try to answer it ;P
 
Clearly, the system works
 
time to die
 
hehe
 
well, I'm not really always in a searching mood! I mean I only answer questions if I know the exact answer (or at least if I think I know).
@josh I've noticed you never asked any question! does that really mean you never encountered any question?
 
4:32 PM
@Gajet heh, It took me quite a while to ask my first question on SO too. But I started to ask a few more after finding gamedev.SE
Not that long though, :p
 
there are three cases that I ask a question here: 1. I don't feel like searching in google! 2. I want to know others opinion about something, and there are rare cases that I can't find anything on google. I'm almost sure others have same reasons to ask a question.
it's just really surprising that josh never asked any question. it makes him some kind of Gamedev god!
 
From the questions I have asked, I usually come here when a question does not have a google answer, and the problem has been nagging me for months, if not years
 
4:50 PM
@Gajet Correct.
 
I'm going to assume Josh's "correct" means "correct, i am a gamdev god"
 
So I decided to close my own question gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/350/…
 
@thedaian Of course! ;)
 
@Tetrad, though that's really offtopic, I think it's good to at least have one question of that Type open!
 
probably good, @Tetrad. it's like those SO questions about funniest bug, good for legacy stuff, and funny reading, but... not worth keeping open
 
5:04 PM
wow that question is hilarious
 
I like the NPC congregation
It would be a little freaky though
 
I saw a mudcrab the other day
filthy creatures
 
well, goodbye
 
:p
Nice
 
later, josh
 
5:07 PM
heh, I think it was an other Oblivion quote
 
yes ;)
 
5:45 PM
Awesome cleanup today :o
 
once i have full edit privileges i will make more attempts to clean up questions and answers
 
I thought that with the, everyone can edit it just needs to be approved thing tagwiki's are editable by everyone?
 
it's a bit harder to do if your edits go into a queue
they are editable by everyone
 
Congratulations you now have question / answer editing privileges.
 
hooray!
also scored a "nice answer" badge from your upvoting :P
 
5:56 PM
@thedaian Everyone over 5000 Rep at least, in the case of tag wiki edits. So like, 9 people.
 
ah. well, only 3,000 more rep to go
/me flexes question editing privileges
 
You can still add edits to the queue though.
 
but that's less fun :P
how do i add edits to the queue, instead of insta-editing?
 
Do you see the text, "help us create it" on the tag pages?
 
oh, right. wikitag edits
 
6:06 PM
Yep
 
sorry, got confused
 
Hrm, do we really need ? I'm currently removing because it's redundant and only has 4 questions.
 
the one time i really looked through the tag wiki stuff, there really wasn't much of anything i could edit
 
Might have been before anyone can edit?
 
hmm, i phrased that weird. i meant, there really wasn't anything i could see to add to any of the tag descriptions
i think it might be worth keeping tools, though most of the questions seem to be of the type "what tool is the best for ..."
 
6:24 PM
Don't you have to have edit rights to the tag to approve the edit though?
 
6:34 PM
you might be able to do it as a trusted user or a mod
 
that will answer all of your "what can I do" questions
I don't know how I feel about this question gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/9710/…
 
6:58 PM
Some interesting answers, but it's a really open-ended question without one true answer
 
@Tetrad I don't like it.
 
I'm trying to kill the tag, as well as non-academic tags, but I'm not sure what to do with that one
 
I think the whole question should be nuked; or at least CW'd.
 
I agree with @JohnMcDonald, there's some interesting answers, but it's an open ended question that doesn't quite fit
 
But yeah, retagging it is a tricky one
 
7:06 PM
btw, my Dad was also a computer scientist, and he would say that Marketing is way more important than people realize
 
I suppose I could just delete those questions
 
Well... it has been stared 11 times
 
SO has solved this by locking those questions for reasons of "historical significance" meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/109246/…
 
Just delete those 11 users too!
 
haha
locking the question is honestly probably the best option
 
7:15 PM
* unstared
 
outright deleting questions seems like something that should only be done on terrible questions that are duplicates
 
well there's also really off topic questions that are closed
 
agreed
 
yeah
i think it's basically that bad questions shouldn't be deleted if they have good or potentially useful answers
 
I generally avoid deleting things unless it's spam
 
7:35 PM
I'm really enjoying browsing these questions you're causing to get pushed to the front page and discovering that I submitted an answer that I'd totally forgotten about
 
I'm in "worst moderator ever" mode right now and closing as "not constructive" every "how do I get started" question I can find
 
\o/
 
haha
 
Not that I care for those questions, but is there anywhere on SE for these noobs to go?
 
it... might be good to have one giant community wiki that we can all point to for those questions
 
7:44 PM
Not really, but SE isn't, and shouldn't, be all things to all people
the goal of the site is to get expert answers to your questions. It isn't a forum. It isn't even really a "community".
 
there's something like that on programmers for "what do i need to know to do web development"
also i kind of think of the chat room as the "community" aspect. the main site is where you go to ask questions, here is where you go to talk to other game devs in a more social format
 
I mean really most of the SE traffic comes from people googling the topics and finding questions answered on a site
 
Tatrad's on a rampage! /o/
 
Yeah, makes sense
 
so in the past month
200k hits from google, 20k hits from SO, 4k hits from t.co (link shortener), and then everything else is insignificant
a few thousand from reddit
 
7:49 PM
true, but i think any website like this needs a community to survive. if there isn't a community, then people stop coming to the site, and the site dies and we get exactly 8 active people who can cast close votes
 
well the way Joel puts it is that you need interesting questions to keep the "experts" around. If all of your questions are the same boring/subjective questions every single time then your content creators are going to leave.
 
that's another valid point
 
Yeah, I can totally see that. If this site were more like a forum with subjective questions, I probably wouldn't be here
 
I have a question, probably for meta but It's probably a quick answer
Why exactly are questions upped when they are closed? - All the recent questions that may have been intersting have been booted off the front page.
 
i think it's actually that the questions were edited to remove a tag, and THEN closed
 
7:56 PM
You're looking at the "active" questions, not the "newest" ones
 
and since editing bumps up a question to the front...
 
I answered the minecraft question as if it was from a novice programmer, but I feel like if the the question had stayed on gaming.SE it would have gotten a layman's explanation.
 
Unless I use a bulk tag merging tool, even just editing tags bumps questions to the top
 
8:11 PM
Guys completely off topic, I'm sure you noticed google plus can find your location. that's basically web browsers doing.
but I'm wondering how can browser find where I am right now? I'm sure my laptop doesn't have any GPS devices.
 
and I'm using a wireless network connected to a wimax router.
 
@Gajet Look up "GeoIP"
 
IP isn't accurate enough! I tested my location right now and it was only 10m off!
 
basically, this, @Gajet: diveintohtml5.info/geolocation.html
 
8:17 PM
wow, it's 10 miles off for me
 
well i've tested GeoIP right now and it's pointing to Esfahan while I'm in Tehran!
 
just testing, Google+ gives me the same address as the geoIP
so google isn't actually getting my location versus spyplane
 
google plus in IE gives same address as GeoIP, but when I tried chrome I got incredible results.
 
maybe google has a spyplane in tehran.
 
Don't use Chrome then? Also, check what Chrome is actually sending, maybe via Wireshark if it isn't encrypted?
 
8:23 PM
I heard the Street View cars log Wifi hotspot info
 
They did.
 
it seems firefox is also able to find me accurately. any ideas how are they doing this?
 
IIRC, Google promised to delete that data.
 
I'm almost sure it's not based on ip.
since almost every site which looks for address based on traditional IP system, gives wrong address.
 
obviously, firefox and chrome secretly install GPS software on your computer. IE doesn't.
 
8:27 PM
by the way IP is something google knows but your browser asks for user permission to send your position to remote host. so these data is based on something other than just IP
 
heh, it thinks I'm in a cemetery
 
@thedaian that's why everyone says "IE protects your privacy!"
 
@JohnMcDonald you mean you're not an undead zombie?
 
heh, couldn't resist
 
hehehe
 
8:37 PM
and don't forget to read the alt text: "'Meet hot young singles in your mom's basement today'? Man, screw you, GeoIP."
 
haha, nice
 
@thedaian In the link you provided there are two ways that writer suggests for looking up position, one is to use cell towers and the other one is GPS device.
I'm sure my laptop can't connect to either one of them!
 
it's possible that it's connecting to one of those via some other route. though that's purely a random guess
this actually might be an interesting question for superuser or something...
 
 
1 hour later…
10:03 PM
we need to make it so that our top voted questions aren't legacy "lists of X" community wiki questions
 
10:13 PM
Is that a problem?
the highest rated questions on SO are kind of in that category
with the "what is the --> operator" and "how do I parse XHTML with Regex" questions being in there for humor
 
heh
</butthead>
 
11:04 PM
Wow, until recently I always thought that delta times could solve any problem, and I was thinking that variable time-steps were the way to go. But the more that I look at some of my code and think about it, the more I'm thinking that delta times in combination with a fixed time-step could be useful
Very useful
 
are you digging through the highest voted questions?
I agree though, "Fix your timestep" is a really good read :>
 
heh, no, but I think I read that one recently
Mainly with physics in mind
But now I'm looking at my miner code and seeing that I'm doing some weird stuff so that I don't lose fractional seconds. If I used a fixed timestep, that wouldn't be a problem
 
well, delta times is better than "fixed-time" with sleep(targetFPS - delta) in every call
 
Yeah, I'm using a variable delta time everywhere right now. I was thinking of changing it to be a fixed delta time, but still holding on to the delta times
(even though they should all be the same)
XNA, so it does all the fixed math
 
well physics is better behaved when running at predictable intervals, but it really depends on what else you're doing in an update
 
11:10 PM
Heh, "what else"
Well... I'm not using a physics engine yet, and I'm not sure I plan to
It's a space game
 
well, I've been experimenting with having game logic on another thread
 
with no collisions (yet)
Oh really?
 
but the time synchronization is pretty awful
 
A friend of mine told me this really cool way to make a multi-threaded game engine
Yeah, I don't doubt it
want me to geek all about it?
(not for the weak)
 
geek about it
 
11:13 PM
:)
 
we're all manly men with ample chest hair in here
even our top hats have chest hair
 
Well... this method requires 2 versions of each and every game entity. How you maintain or create the second copy is up for debate. One copy is the "old" copy from the previous frame, the other one is the copy for the next (current) frame.
The old copy is Read Only, and the new copy is Write Only (no reading)
So, instead of updating an object from it's own state, and interacting with all other objects in the universe, each object reads it's previous state and modifies it using the previous states of other objects to generate the current state of the object
You with me?
 
yeah
 
Doing this allows you to use as many threads as you would like. Each thread would be allocated certain index ranges. All threads can read the old states with no problems, doesn't matter if they want the same information. When the threads want to write, they are guaranteed that they are the only ones trying to write to the current copy of the element
So in effect, each and every object is using the old state of all other objects to determine their current state
 
and if you fix it at say, 1-frame history, you just flip back and forth between two states and avoid dynamic allocations
seems like a good idea
 
11:21 PM
Correct, there are many ways to prevent dynamic allocation
Yeah... it's certainly interesting
 
plus, just keep more than 1 frame of history, and you get Braid mechanics almost for free ;)
 
Probably tougher to implement than to explain, but
hahah
yeah
And if you think about it, in normal single-threaded games, the first entity to update is using the old state of all of the other entities. The second one has 99% old and only one entity in its new state
 
it's like writing the game of life
impossible to do without keeping 2 states around
 
heh, Yes, Exactly
Maybe I'll look at implementing a multi-threaded game when I have 100k+ objects that do a lot of processing each
 
my problem is I never have a game
I just have things I want to do
 
11:29 PM
heh, yeah, I was like that once
well... who am I kidding, I still have a million of things I want to do
but I also have a game that I'm working on
 
I have.... well, I'm going to be making the best MMO ever
 
Oh yeah, Galaxy of Warminecraft, I remember
 
lol
i have about 3 main games i really want to make
well, 3 games that i want to make and think i have the skills to make
sim city 5 is kind of out of my reach right now
 
of course they're all crazy huge simulation games :(
 
11:33 PM
sim city sounds like a really nice hobby project though. It's so emergent.
 
I... have settled down with all of my ideas, and now I'm really trying to keep my head down and get this game done
 
the problem with sim city is i'd have to make it better than sim city 4... and that's REALLY hard to do
 
:/ yeah
 
I never really got into the sim city genre... I wouldn't know why :P
 
Well... there have to be niche markets
 
11:36 PM
a procedural building generator sounds like fun though
kind of like ship.shapewright.com but for buildings
 
For me, I looked at a game "Dungeon Defenders" on Steam recently, and it's in a similar genre to what I'm making, and there is NO way I could ever make a game with that amount of complexity
 
complexity isn't always good
I really appreciate games with simple but powerful mechanics
 
What does my game offer above and beyond dungeon defenders though? It does everything I hope to do, and then a whole lot more
yeah
You played Greed Corp then?
 
have not
 
Great indie game with such simple rules, but a whole lot of fun
 
11:39 PM
I play Go ;)
 
Well, 17 hours on record, which is pretty good for me. And I even beat the single player! That's like... unheard of
I haven't even beaten the single-player campaign for the game I'm cloning!
 
campaigns can get old
 
haha
 
heh, a whole 8 missions, it's a short game
 
really, complexity appeals to some people, and simple appeals to some people
 
11:42 PM
:p Don't make excuses for me
yeah... and a Strategy/Tower Defence/Casual game hits both markets. Where do I aim?
So... you play Go eh? I just just bought that game
like 2 weeks ago
I have decided to collect board games from countries I visit. So in China, I decided to collect Go
 
It's like, the simplest possible game, in terms of explaining how to play
but it's also the most deviously complicated game
in terms of how deep the strategy goes
 
heh, yeah, So I've gathered
Like checkers easy to explain, but... seemingly more complex than chess once you actually know how to play
 
really?
 
Well... maybe a little more complicated than checkers to explain
 
so I managed to get rid of everything that had the tag on it
I feel pretty good about this
 
11:56 PM
the old republic mmo stinks!
 
@Tetrad :) gj
 
how many were there?
 
the top of the list is now a question tagged [research] ;)
 
yeah i was kinda chuckling at research
 

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