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2:05 PM
gonna post RAAoD then
will you be going to change AAoD #1 ?
I can if you want
I am free, so I can also do it.
I almost had a rule based approach to construct the tiling ....
@Optimizer 51222
Q: Random ASCII Art of the Day #5: Diamond Tilings

Martin BüttnerMash Up Time! This is instalment #5 of both my Random Golf of the Day and Optimizer's ASCII Art of the Day series. Your submission(s) in this challenge will count towards both leaderboards (which you can find the linked posts). Of course, you may treat this like any other code golf challenge, an...

2:19 PM
@MartinBüttner done
@MartinBüttner you know, there is randomness in snowflakes also.
but its not the same randomness , like in your series though
well I did want to include a challenge on random walks, but I don't want to torture @Geobits more than necessary ;)
in a random walk, how will you give the criteria of each possible walk having greater than 0 probability ?
seems too much to me.
depends on the walk
for many walks it should be trivial to show that a uniform choice among the possible steps leads to non-zero probability for every possible result
2:27 PM
@MartinBüttner Ah - make that 3 x 3 then...
@MartinBüttner given a manhatten distance based walk..
Would there be anything interesting about a non-intersecting random walk?
Maybe with a continuous range of angles?
@trichoplax How about: Given a angle range and a distance range for each step of the walk, what is the expected value of steps to take before a self intersection (to some degree of accuracy).
Interesting - that's the opposite way round to how I was thinking (selecting random angles until a non-intersecting one is chosen)
The expected value question does sound like it should have more than one way of approaching it, which adds to the interest
What if there is no non-intersecting one?
2:38 PM
Good point
Maybe that is the end of the walk, and the output is a walk of whatever length it takes to reach that point
The expected value of that length could be another thing to ask
The expected value problem might be more friendly on a grid, like where only left right up and down are valid directions.
Feel free to use the idea
Alternatively the challenge could be to produce one of a specified total length, so that such dead ends are not an option. If there is no non-intersecting next step, retry the previous step, and so on
Incidentally, I'm still working on a second BBBF player
It's turning out to be a rather longer function that I had anticipated, but hopefully I can get it working
If it works, I'm thinking of calling it Coffin Makers
@trichoplax That might make cool images, but satisfying Optimizers point could make it tricky to define/implement
@trichoplax Cool! I had assumed I'd get no more answers
@Calvin'sHobbies Hmmm. I guess that's easier to prove with a grid. I'm sure it's possible with continuous angles but having to demonstrate it for each new answer would be tedious
@Calvin'sHobbies I intended it to be an early answer, shortly after my answer from meta, but I've been distracted by other ideas and also "box them in" turned out to be less straightforward than I expected
I want to get my BBBF answer posted before I finish my own Stack Snippets KotH about ants (QotH?)
What is an association bonus?
2:50 PM
If you already have sufficient rep on another SE site, you get a 100 bonus for each new one you join
Oh, cool!
I think it's 200 rep on one site to get 100 on another, but I'm not certain
It means once you're trusted on one site you can post and comment and chat on others without having to go through the same process again.
Yeah, I just hit 200 on PPCG and got it on PPCG, SO and AskUbuntu
Cool :)
3:13 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies does the distance range even play a role? wouldn't that just scale the entire walk up or down?
(of course, on a grid it does matter)
I guess it wouldn't matter if it were scaled exactly. Like a distance range of [1, 10] would be the same as [10, 100]. But [1, 10] would not be the same as [1, 90], right?
only if the [10,100] range is in steps of 10
or are you talking about a continuous space again?
then yeah, I was thinking of [0,r] ranges, not general [r1,r2] ranges
so yeah if you allow general ranges, they would make a difference
Right, then distance doesn't matter. Just angle range would be a good enough question IMO
3:20 PM
as a probability theory question it sounds really hard
Yes :P, my only approach would be to run a bunch of samples
oh okay, I thought you would ask for exact reults
Then you'd have to work them out to verify. I'd do something like "get within 5% of the values I generated".
@MartinBüttner Is it the usual rules for leading/trailing whitespace for RAAoD?
oh, good point
3:24 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies 7
I'd go with no leading spaces, and up to N trailing spaces
@Optimizer opinions?
@MartinBüttner umm . for ?
sorry, wasn't following
"Is it the usual rules for leading/trailing whitespace for RAAoD?" --> "I'd go with no leading spaces, and up to N trailing spaces"
No leading spaces that are not part of the pattern
3:27 PM
well yes
I don't think that trailing spaces are even posible here, but why not just minimum bounding box ?
Have people ever really abused trailing spaces? (I know I usually put limits on them but I never really care if they're there...)
@Optimizer well I don't know what people come up with. but N trailing spaces is enough for the bounding box.
@MartinBüttner umm .. no ?
N trailing spaces will make the pattern be like a rhombus, not a rectangle
I mean that you can use up to N trailing spaces on each line, but don't have to (and it doesn't have to be the same on each line)
3:30 PM
I seriously don't see anyone (ab)using that :P
honestly, minimum bounding box should be good.
It would be interesting to see a golf that gains from having thousands of trailing spaces
as I said, I have no idea what people will come up with, and having the option to add at least one space to each line could help some people. it's probably also slightly easier to explain
@Vioz- Golden rule of Python lambdas: If you're mapping/filtering a lambda, consider a list comp instead (for your watch golf)
What's another type of fox or coyote like animal?
(This is for a challenge.)
3:34 PM
that was my first thought
but just a wolf? dog?
No no, needs to be cutsier
Deer? not really like a coyote
@Calvin'sHobbies coyotes literally look like wolves.
hey, I need some help designing this cops n robbers: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/5372/20198
so any input is appreciated
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Nathan MerrillNP Cops and Robbers This is an idea I've had for a while, and I really want to get it to work, but there are some large hurdles. Hurdle 1: I need to pick a puzzle, preferably one that is NP-Complete. I think lots of Nikoli puzzles are good candidates, and I am leaning towards Light Up Cops: ...

3:37 PM
Nevermind, foxbot works
@Optimizer I went with variable trailing space. more leeway is better than less leeway as long as it doesn't open up loopholes.
What's a clever portmanteau of "robot" and "animal" (or two closely related words)? Botimal/anibot are too vague or generic
You can work "brainfuck" in there too maybe
@BrainSteel Maybe, Robeastimals, beastbotimals, hmm
Everything involving BF that I can think of sounds vaguely illegal.
3:50 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies I was gonna make a joke about BrainSteel's name again, but then realised that would be a bit too inappropriate ;)
Oooh, that's not bad.
No, needs to be generic, fox is too specific
(I almost typed BrianFox)
@Calvin'sHobbies What kind of animal?
3:52 PM
Fauna Ex Machina
Thanks @Sp3000 :)
@ThomasRoss It should refer to these animals: human squid spider bunny tooth fox bat (this will make sense in a couple hours)
I like critter
Is tooth an animal?
I say so
@Vioz- I'm golfing as well and while it's usually not good sportsmanship to look at and steal from other peoples' code, I honestly have no idea what on earth you're doing there
3:54 PM
Then it is :)
@Calvin'sHobbies Alien?
@trichoplax critter terminator?
Wait I think there's some more here beneath the bottom of the barrel
@trichoplax I like RoboCritters, I think I'll use that
Cool :)
3:55 PM
Thanks everyone :P
@Sp3000, I'm just converting the hours to minutes and.. wait, I don't know why I was doing modulus 721
gimme a sec, lol
I was wondering where the 721 came from lol
I think I started doing it to work with 24h time and didn't change it when I found out I didn't need to
Anyways, now I have it down to 194 bytes :)
Your a+b+c==1440 doesn't actually work, btw
Try 07:00 08:00 09:00
Oh, true
I should probably just special-case 4:00 8:00 12:00
4:02 PM
Then you'd fail on 04:01 08:01 12:01 :P
You're right
goddamn it
well, special-case 4-hour gaps then
4:15 PM
Alright, fixed it
Now it's 199 bytes :(
1>=(a-b)/240>=-1 that looks so suspicious
..you're right
christ I'm dumb
(a-b)==240or (a-b)==-240
now how the hell do I shorten that
... oh okay, that wasn't what I meant but okay
aside from removing parenthesis
Well it turns out the last statement was faulty too, lol
Well depending on what you're doing, (a-b)%240<1
But you don't have (a-b)%240 == 0 in there so I dunno
4:26 PM
I'm just checking if there's a 4 hour gap between the first two, cause that implies there's an identical gap of 4 hours between the last two
so that's the look at the sun case
Fails for 07:00 09:00 08:00
I'm not sure why, but it outputted 09:00
I think I know why
one moment
4:46 PM
Man, these badges encourage some questionable behavior. If I had downvoted this answer instead of upvoting it, I would have gotten a gold badge.
Alternatively, you could have upvoted it 5 more times
@Dennis How so?
Populist bade: Highest scoring answer that outscored an accepted answer with score of more than 10 by more than 2x
The accepted answer does not have a score of 10+
so if you would have downvoted, you would not have earned the badge
I totally misread that.
4:48 PM
It's the other way around actually: if you upvote it, you are closer to your badge.
I somehow understood by more than 10.
Nevertheless, if I had a score of 20 and the other answer a score of 11, a downvote would get me my badge.
Same goes for an answer with score 20 and a question with score -4.
That's true.
But you're right, my upvote got me closer.
Quick, everybody upvote aditsu's answer! :P
@Dennis I'm still waiting for two populists where the limiting factor is the accepted answer only having 8 votes or something ;)
one day...
Nice solution, @Sp3000
4:55 PM
I cost myself a Reversal badge on Meta once. My answer had more than enough upvotes and the question a score of -4 when it got deleted.
The fun part: I had upvoted the question.
lol, nice job :D
I didn't think about the badge when I upvoted it. It was one of those occasions where Meta was more focused on being funny than helpful, and some moderator mentioned the [status-train-wreck] tag.
That question wasn't worth keeping, obviously. But I didn't think it should be downvoted into oblivion.
Q: Rearranging Words

randomraYou should write a program which receives two strings as input and outputs a sequence of movements which rearrange the first string into the second. You should use as few moves as you can. Both strings will contain only lowercase letters and the second (goal) string is a permutation of the first...

5:11 PM
user image
Found it.
5:37 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin BüttnerExtending OEIS: Counting Diamond Tilings fastest-codecombinatoricstiling I promise, this will be my last challenge about diamong tilings (for a while, anyway). On the bright side, this challenge doesn't have anything to do with ASCII art, and is not a code golf either, so this is actually compl...

5:48 PM
I'm thinking about adding a tag for hexagonal grids (like the recent Settlers of Catan challenge or my older Kingdom Builder challenge). Should the tag also cover the hex grid's dual (i.e. triangular grids), like Katya's recent geese challenge?
how many questions would get the hex-but-not-triangle tag?
how many would get a triangle grid tag?
other than non-square game of life, I don't think I've seen any questions involving a triangular grid (using the triangles, not the vertices)
as I said, at least this one
but you're right, you can think about all of them being on the hex grid where some challenges make use of the cells and some make use of the vertices
a single tag then
I'll collect a list and start the retagging tomorrow
should all of them be tagged with too?
Talking about badges in chat earned me a chat badge. Makes sense.
obviously tags need support for inheritance
so we can put [hex-grid] and automatically have [grid]
6:05 PM
@randomra yes
there's nothing wrong with having hierarchical tags
unless we want to redefine to mean exclusively rectangular grids
6:21 PM
I found 13 challenges that will get the hex grid tag
can I get some quick voting by stars please?
definitely not lattice. lattice implies we're working with vertices and edges, not polygons.
hexagonal-lattice and triangular-grid are equivalent, and vice versa
bloody hell.
hexagonal and triangular lattice are the same thing
What the hell guys!
@feersum I disagree
6:30 PM
Can mods see who are spam starring?
"grid" almost always refers to the cells, while "lattice" almost always refers to the vertices and edges.
they are the dual of each other, and apply to tilings that are duals of each other
chess is played on a square grid. go is played on a square lattice. squares happen to be self-dual, so this isn't a great example :)
Wikipedia agrees they are the same :P
just call it marklar
7:06 PM
sup? ⤴
random Bach?
@Calvin'sHobbies nice job on that challenge. that's amazing. :)
@aditsu always
when you least expect it
@Calvin'sHobbies btw, now looking at Foxbot, the animal you were looking for was a Fennec fox
* gasp *
7:09 PM
@MartinBüttner Do you know how much I need to censor "Brainfuck" to be allowed in HNQ?
I remember some restriction about that
Q: Profanity in hot questions list

Adam DavisI don't participate enough in PCG to feel I should have a say in whether that community allows profanity in their question titles, and I'm not particularly interested in opening yet another, "Is the language “BrainF_ck” offensive?" question. However, the hot questions list appears on all the net...

Q: Translate RoboCritters into Brainf**k

Calvin's HobbiesRoboCritters (etymology) is a brand new esoteric programming language (don't bother searching for it, I just invented it). It's a variant of Brainfuck (BF), slightly more complex than the usual operator substitution schemes. Every program in RoboCritters is a rectangular grid of text that only co...

So f**k should be alright I guess
@MartinBüttner CENSORSHIP!
@Calvin'sHobbies Brainshag
7:12 PM
Brainfuсk should also work.
Underhanded style.
look at the very constructive comments here
How about b****f***?
one of my friends is in there ⤴
Let's try spelling it with a cyrillic 'a' !
the problem is not "Brain" :P
7:18 PM
Throw in a cyrillic 'c' then
@Dennis @feersum already done
(I checked :p)
7:25 PM
hmm, brainfork is already a language
@Calvin'sHobbies Hm, I think the interpreter tag is a bit misused there. Maybe code-generation? Although I wouldn't mind adding a separate tag for transpiler challenges.
something based on this concept of a 2D language with area-commands that can overlap could actually be quite fun and powerful if it was extended beyond just translating to brainfuck
@MartinBüttner Yeah, interpreter is not totaly accurate. Didn't know we has code-gen. (changed)
7:45 PM
@aditsu ew crashing for too long substrings urgently needs a fix
huh? example?
costs me something like 4 bytes for robocritters
ah, too long as in longer than the string
8:00 PM
Mar 30 at 18:18, by PhiNotPi
@Calvin'sHobbies I really want to see someone solve the robocritters challenge in one of the solutions from codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/47311/…
We need some more diverse grawlixes
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

JNVCreate a basic spell checker code-golf In this challenge, you have to implement a basic spell checker. Your program will use the first input as a source. Specifications You will receive two inputs, one is a sentence/paragraph you use as a source for your spell checker, and the other includes ...

8:07 PM
@Sparr me too
holy crap, 7 upvotes without an explanation and I'm not even sure I've golfed it particularly well.
that is not that rare
I don't think any of the existing 2d solutions do replacement, unfortunately.
And modifying the languages to support replacement would be too late for this challenge :(
This is another situation where I want to submit an invalid solution to a problem, just because of how neat of a solution it is.
@Sparr especially overlapping replacement (although I guess lookarounds could do that)
meh, I'm thinking of something with separate input and output streams
but even in-place replacement could work in this case, since none of the patterns match upwards
replace each bot with a copy of the bot with its top left character replaced with a sentinel character, then make a second pass replacing any non-sentinel character with an empty string.
and the sentinels with the appropriate BF characters
8:22 PM
I am BatBot
^ Llamabot
That's more of a GoatBot
That's better
 /\ /\
8:26 PM
Why is he cut in half?
 /\ /\
(I'm trying to make a PhiBot and it's not working out so well.)
|  |
8:36 PM
@PhiNotPi Maybe you we're accidentally trying to make a PiBot?
@MartinBüttner Double sided axe
@Calvin'sHobbies I was thinking that :/
|. .|
8:44 PM
not bad
Mouse? Cat? I'm not sure
well, even with a trivial extension for search and replace, there's no straightforward way to solve critterbots with snakex
which makes me sad. brianmacintosh.com/snakeex/spec.html is a pretty awesome language idea
9:07 PM
Q: The Great Wumpus Hunt

CainIt's open season on Wumpuses, and hunters from around the world are flocking to the Wumpus Caves to try to get rich of off valuable Wumpus Pelts. The Game Based on the classic Hunt the Wumpus game, with a few variations. The Map A dodecahedron. There are 20 rooms, each connected to 3 other ro...

|. .|
9:30 PM
the site-life-cycle-terminology-brawl continues:
Q: Can we do something about the "graduated" label?

Monica CellioThis question arose from discussion on Can we do something about the "beta" label?. Sites fall into three main categories: Young betas that are still very much in beta. Consensus seems to be that these should be labelled "beta". Long-running betas that probably aren't going to graduate. That...

Q: Read numbers in the base of the largest digit and write it using underscores

kirbyfan64sosThis isn't as much a "challenge" as "a unique problem that there are no built-in functions to solve." Basically, you need to do this: Read some lines of numbers from stdin. These lines may contain trailing or preceding whitespace, and there may be empty lines. This: 123 456\t (where \t is ...

10:09 PM
Why is it that 90% of all KotH challenges are for Java?
I guess it's faster than Python and more popular than C/C++.
Oh well, yet another KotH I'm skipping...
what language would you prefer (other than a language-agnostic KotH)?
CJam. Less competition. :P
Seriously, Bash or C. It's what I'm most fluent in.
Bash would probably be a bad idea for KotH though.
hm yeah I don't think C would be a much better idea. I doubt most people who'd normally participate in them know C.
10:15 PM
Python would still be OK. I don't know much Python, but is easy enough to learn.
but thanks for the input... I'm planning to tackle my first KotH some time soon, and I do need to decide on language/format.
@Dennis the community has worked out some easy methods for implementing Java KotH challenges where each entry is a separate class that the controller instantiates.
there was a java koth a while back that I wrote a wrapper for so entrants could use any other language. it didn't get used by anyone :(
I wish more KotH contests were run in python or perl or another language with a good community-developed library of helper functions.
being able to just import a graph traversal or pathfinding algorithm is so convenient
Not sure how many people knew about it. Personally, I see the Java tag and move along. No point in getting all fired up about a challenge if I can't participate.
Is it really that much of a problem?
It hasn't happened much in the last few years, but I've never let not knowing a language stop me from participating in a challenge.
usually one of the example bots will have all the boilerplate that I need, and examples of loops and conditionals and variables.
I guess I could give it another try.
Last last time I tried with write Java code, I failed miserably.
10:29 PM
It has been stopping me recently
I can't participate in js-only KOTHs because I'm allergic to Javascript
Aren't Java and JavaScript the same language?
one is compiled and the other is interpreted, but otherwise yeah. ;)
10:44 PM
@MartinBüttner What's the question migration rules with graduated/beta sites?
Is is that a question on any graduated site can be moved to any other graduated site, but beta sites have specific migration routes?
11:01 PM
@PhiNotPi I'll check later, but I think you can at least migrate from beta to anywhere else.
11:35 PM
I found an interesting bug (?)
I don't know if a link will work. The thread was deleted, which is why I couldn't get the vote counts. here is it anyways
Hm, we should make a challenge about boggle on a hex grid... But just plain "find strings in a hexagonal boggle board" probably doesn't add too much over existing boggle challenges
Do you think core is a good replacement for graduated?
(no reason, just asking?)
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