12:51 AM
Ah found a way. That's why I love LaTeX. <3

7 hours later…
7:53 AM
@PauloCereda Monicelli was a genius; you should see also "La grande guerra" and "L'armata Brancaleone" (both starring Vittorio Gassman).

8:16 AM
I've just been reminded why I like Debian so much. It doesn't do stupid things like upgrading everything and removing the key features. Not Ubuntu this time, but an iPad application just removed the one feature for which I bought the app!

@AndrewStacey What was it?

@JosephWright eNote Taker. Upgraded itself to GoodNotes. Since the iPad weighs a fraction of my laptop, I thought I'd use it for my beamer presentations. But to do that, there cannot be any annoying page transitions. eNote Taker did not have annoying page transitions, GoodNotes does. *bleugh*
0

I'm looking for an iPad app that I can use for my PDF presentations. The absolute must-have features are: Good annotation support. I'm giving 2hr lectures so I have to be able to write on the presentation in response to the students' questions, or to highlight something that I want the studen...

In other news, detexify has an iphone app which runs on the ipad (would be nice if it handled the bigger screen) which is absolutely fantastic.

@AndrewStacey I'm confused. PDF page transitions are part of the PDF itself, surely? (With suitable viewer support)
@Raphink I suspect so, but would like some other opinions

And then maybe @MartinScharrer could add his comment as a solution to the other question

8:21 AM
@JosephWright Not quite. The apps can build in their own little "fun" animations for when you change pages. Some do "page turning", some do "sliding". I just want "Replace this page by the next one".

Wierd

@JosephWright Don't know of such. But I need good annotation support as well so that's a mix that's hard to find.

@AndrewStacey Ah, that probably does make a difference
I may ask our resident iPad expert (he's very into teaching using technology)

@Raphink I agree

@JosephWright On my laptop, I use xournal (slightly hacked, but not much) and that is absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't expect to get such a quality product on an iPad, but am hoping to get close enough that I don't have to lug my huge laptop in for lectures (it wasn't bought as a laptop, it was bought as a computer that can be put in a cupboard out of the way of sticky fingers).

8:25 AM
@egreg Okay, that seems reasonable. I'll dupe it.

9:17 AM
@Joseph: your article "Plotting experimental data using pgfplots" just saved my life! :-)

@PauloCereda No problem. I do a lot of plots at the moment (my current project generates lots of numerical data)
@AndrewStacey I'm told '2screens app' is good

@JosephWright I just watched a youtube video of that and it did look reasonable. Did you mention the page transition requirement?

@JosephWright Ah nice. :-) I don't have many plots, but some of them are really complex. I used to plot them with gnuplot or calc, but it takes a while to tweak them the way I want. Usually we don't need charts, but when writing a paper, some reviewers want a fancy easy-to-spot data in a plot. :-)

@AndrewStacey 'Fraid not: I'll see if I can grab a quick demo. May take a little while

(Note to self: learn how to write iPad apps and make some cool ones)

9:28 AM
@PauloCereda (Note to Paulo: please do!)

10:05 AM
Posted by Rebecca Chernoff on October 4th, 2011

We’re pleased to announce that Stack Exchange is now an institutional member of the TeX Users Group.

The TeX Users Group (TUG) is a non-profit organization supporting the the TeX typesetting system community — or anyone generally interested in furthering the fields of typography and font design. It’s popular within many academic disciplines, several of which are represented in the Stack Exchange network.

TeX was originally popular as a tag on Stack Overflow and eventually grew into its own TeX Stack Exchange site through the Area 51 process. This community has actively contributed new packages back to the TeX community, and maintains a community blog. …

yes :-)

10:37 AM
Yeah, congrats @Patrick. I'm still quite far for this one...
Yeah, swag package email \o/

@Raphink Now I can show off with this!

yeah

1 hour later…
12:03 PM
I don't have any tex book at all. Should I purchase the TeX book, or is it worth getting the whole typesetting collection? informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0201734168

@Raphink I'd just get the TeXbook. I have also got the Metafont book, but I never look into it.
I like the drawings, though

hehe
@Patrick: there's nice prices there when you're a TUG member :-)
-35%

But it's still more then the TeXbook alone, I guess

ah sure
the whole thing is 129$the texbook alone, with -30%, is 31.49$

Holy cow - how often do you want to read the source code of metafont?

12:11 PM
Just wondering if there's anything interesting

129$is way too much for something that only impresses other computer science friends I'm not a tech book reader in general. I have some python books and I read some of Andrew Tanenbaum's systems book, but usually I just go online to read stuff. I have the TeXbook as a printed book, but nowadays I use an "online" version @Patrick: 129$ is for the whole box of computers & typesetting, volumes A-E

A,B are TeX, C,D are Metafont and E is CMR? I don't remember

12:15 PM
A is the TeXbook, B is TeX, C is Metafont, D is the Metafont program, E is CM typefaces
yeah... maybe the TeXbook is enough ;-)

I thought so. I'd never read B-E, only look at the drawings from Duane Bibby(?)

What I'd love is a good price on 3:16
but the TUG membership doesn't seem to cover that

@Raphink I remember seeing that in the Stanford Bookstore and thinking it looked interesting. Along with "Things a Computer Scientist doesn't talk about" (or some such title).

@AndrewStacey: "things a computer scientist rarely talks about" I found online (or at least an extract) and it was interesting indeed.
yep, found it again, I have the PDF here if you're interested @AndrewStacey.

Incidentally (all and sundry), I've uploaded more of my TeX-SX images to my picassa album: picasaweb.google.com/110765980098077923527/… these were all generated for this site.
@Raphink Yes, I'm interested. But have to run to a violin lesson now ...

12:23 PM
Ah nice :-)
would you like me to send it to you somewhere?

@Raphink I think you have my email address, no?

Yes I do :-)

12:45 PM
@Patrick There isn't an online version of The TeXbook (unless you mean the source, of course: that's what I use)

and where is the source?
hmmm
doesn't compile though

@Raphink Of course not; it's illegal to process it with TeX, as it is clearly written in the document.

Really bad that there isn't (a pdf version of the TeXbook) - and I don't blame people who use laptops and travel a lot to have a demand for it

1:03 PM
@Patrick Oh, I agree that a PDF version (paid for if necessary) would be nice.
@Raphink In a purely technical sense, this is not too hard to overcome. However, as @egreg says, it's not acceptable (copyright varies geographically, so 'illegal' may or may not be true)

right
It's just a bit frustrating in a way, to have the source code and not have the right to use it.

@Raphink You can use bits of it
@Patrick I'd imagine that the idea has been suggested to DEK

@JosephWright I guess so.

@Raphink In part, the restriction reflects the fact that DEK was aiming at beautiful books, and that 'electronic' versions were not around at the time. I suspect he still prefers printed versions (I believe he still uses bitmap Metafont fonts, not vector conversions)

Right

1:09 PM
@Patrick @barbarabeeton may know more, I suspect (I think I've seen her mention something before)

I can understand the context. Today though, we have the PDF format and PDFs look really good on screen.

@Raphink As I said, the case for a PDF version is pretty clear

As Joseph says, it's allowed to use it in order to get examples of TeX code; however
% Permission for any other use of this file must be obtained in writing
seems to be clear enough. There have been long debates whether it's actually possible to TeX the TeXbook; it *may* depend on the place where one lives, but if one agrees that the applicable law is the USA one, then it's not allowed.
Unless a permission has been obtained from AMS and Addison-Wesley (now Pearson PLC).

That I know of, there are no simple PDF versions of the LaTeX guides either, although they are in Safari Online (for example my.safaribooksonline.com/book/graphic-design/9780321617736/…)

I don't know how the situation would be if I scanned my printed copy of the TeXbook and optionally run OCR on the result.

1:19 PM
@Patrick Depends on where you are, I guess. In the UK, you need permission to scan an entire copyrighted book
Apparently, you can get the Guide to LaTeX for Kindle: amazon.co.uk/Guide-LaTeX-4th-ebook/dp/B00256Z3G8/…
Anyone tried it?

I don't have a Kindle

@Raphink No, neither do I

1:43 PM
@JosephWright A quick research tells me that the same is true in Germany. But IANAL.

1 hour later…
2:52 PM
What is the unit of the product specs in hanesprintables.com/catalog/CatalogProduct.aspx?ProductID=4980?

years
some parts of my body grow faster than others

and your mind is eternal, omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient?

@NN Look like inches to me
Slightly odd, as I'd usually measure chest size

I wonder what question the answer to the following question is intended to answer:
1

In writing a short description of the disposition as part of the introduction in an academic paper, what is the proper way to interpose cross references to sections? Here's two examples. If parentheses are used to interpose the cross references to sections, then the parentheses might be distract...

3:11 PM
Congrats for everybody who won the swag package!

@PauloCereda You just didn't made it on the second page :-(

@MartinScharrer I know. :-( Better luck next time, I guess.

@PauloCereda I should have given you a 500rep bounty just before ;-D

@MartinScharrer haha, I'm glad the swag package is not proportional to the rep, otherwise you and egreg would receive a dozen T-shirts!

@PauloCereda yeah
I would like to have one of these:
But shipping from US to Germany is almost as expensive than the whole glass.

3:18 PM
@MartinScharrer Cool, filled with the best German beer! :-)

@PauloCereda Oh, I can take of the filling myself!

@NN Working on it: 128/150 done

That's impressive

@MartinScharrer I'm at 93

3:23 PM
@egreg Don't you dare to overtake me !! :-D

@MartinScharrer I won't. :-P

@egreg I am at 1/150 :) (I believe)

@Patrick It's a beginning!

@Patrick Don't you worry egreg and me where once there as well!

But I am a user right from the beginning (after closed beta), so I should have at least 20 or so

3:25 PM
@Patrick We'll reduce your salary, then.

"rep cap was reached via rep from upvotes only on 1 days"
OK, that's fine with me. (Does that mean my negative salary is reduced as well?)

Posted by Rebecca Chernoff on October 4th, 2011

We’re pleased to announce that Stack Exchange is now an institutional member of the TeX Users Group.

The TeX Users Group (TUG) is a non-profit organization supporting the the TeX typesetting system community — or anyone generally interested in furthering the fields of typography and font design. It’s popular within many academic disciplines, several of which are represented in the Stack Exchange network.

TeX was originally popular as a tag on Stack Overflow and eventually grew into its own TeX Stack Exchange site through the Area 51 process. This community has actively contributed new packages back to the TeX community, and maintains a community blog. …

cool

As retaliation, I'm gonna go ballistic and suggest a word.sx site. :-)

first comment is troll too

3:42 PM
@NN There's no way to flag comments on the blog though, it seems.

@StefanKottwitz btw we've put in a rush order of the tex swag to be mailed to the TUG2011 conference you're attending.
@StefanKottwitz I hope your mod cards will get to you before that too. we're sending the swag directly to the conference

noticing any increase in view of your profiles after that post?

@egreg: hit rep cap?

@PauloCereda Just five minutes ago (260, four answers accepted). Now offline till tomorrow

@egreg aw we will miss you. :-)

4:07 PM
can anyone tell me how big TUG2011 conference is? How many people will be there?

Only 2 votes until I'm "Trusted". If you don't trust me, better start downvoting now.
2

@AlanMunn it's the internet, you could be a dog
6

@Jin 48 registered, according to tug.org/tug2011/program.html

@StefanKottwitz ok thanks. i'm just trying to figure out how many tshirts/stickers to send.

@Jin Credit cards all over again. :-)

4:14 PM
@Jin Do you think it would arrive in time?

@AlanMunn We trust you. :-)

@StefanKottwitz i hope so. we put in a super urgent rush order.

@Jin but dogs can be trusted
it's not a predicate reserved for humans

@StefanKottwitz we'll be sending the swag to Somatheeram Ayurveda Resort, under your name

@AlanMunn congrats!

4:18 PM
@Jin good

wow, @AlanMunn has exactly 20,000!
which is a palindrome in base 7.

@PauloCereda Yes, I did my last for-credit tag-wiki edit just to round the number up to that.
@Jin Woof.
2

@Jin Probably about 40 people will go. TUG 2009 was about that size (tug.org/tug2009/program.html), while TUG 2010 was bigger but was 'special' as Donald Knuth went
Ah, actually nearer 50: tug.org/tug2011/program.html

@JosephWright ok thanks!

Hmm, I'd not realised just how big TUG 2010 was: tug.org/tug2010/program.html shows 112 people went. Wow

4:32 PM
The TeX world is growing :-)

4:45 PM
Free food?

4:57 PM
:p
So we have 10 trusted users now :-)
and Jake is not really far either

@Raphink Great, lots of potential volunteers next time we have a mod election :-)
(Don't vote for me, vote for them!)

;)

@JosephWright You're doing a good job as a mod!

5:19 PM
@JosephWright I'm gonna vote for you.

5:31 PM
@AlanMunn Just a few minutes on line to say congratulations!

5:45 PM
Not sure I understand the second comment on the blog posting. Is that person saying that MathJaX should or should not be on all SE sites?

@AndrewStacey Huh?

@JosephWright Yes.

Sep 5 at 19:25, by Joseph Wright
We don't use MathJax or similar (on the main site or here), as we usually want to see the source!

6:09 PM
We could reactivate our TeX Blog editor room. It's currently froxen.

129/150

Hm Oct 25th will be day!

@PauloCereda it is unfrozen now

Ah cool! Thanks!

6:26 PM
@MartinScharrer Now I used your adjustbox package for the first time :-) Always wanted to try it besides \makebox etc.

@StefanKottwitz For what did you used it?

For cooking ;-)
3

I have: \subfigure[blah blah blah.] { \begin{tikzpicture}[/MyStyle] ... some stuff... \end{tikzpicture} } But "some stuff" is not that wide and the text in the subfigure produces a lot of underfull hboxes. I want to make the subfigure wider. How do I do that?

Fill some TikZ in a pot, add a nice package and some spicy color, cook some minutes and with some luck get a revival badge :-D

@StefanKottwitz: Ah nice. There is now also a \marginbox and a margin key to add margins. I also borrowed the concept of CSS to allow single and double values for all or v/h margins or trimming.
So margin=10pt will add 10pt margins all around.

@StefanKottwitz ah you raised my hopes. I thought we were talking about actual cooking. :-P

While margin=10pt 15pt will add 10pt left and right, while 15pt at the top and bottom.

6:35 PM
@egreg Thanks.

Good! My first thought was the geometry syntax, such as hmargin and vmargin

Why did the TeX chicken cross the road? One could come up with a geek answer using something like \advance\oddsidemargin by 1m.

7:04 PM
@PauloCereda ! Illegal unit of measure (pt inserted).
@PauloCereda <to be read again>
@PauloCereda :-)

@JosephWright then lets make it 100cm. It is funny after all!

@MartinScharrer Oh yes, quite

@PauloCereda Why did the PS chicken cross the road? 100 0 rmoveto

7:29 PM
@JosephWright LOL my chicken failed. :-P
@MartinScharrer haha great!

@PauloCereda TikZ Chicken: ++(100cm,0)

haha!

For those of you who wonder how scary the rest of the SE network is:
13

Quick note here: I see Nathan kicked this question over to Seasoned Advice... Whether or not nutrition stays in-scope for this site, PLEASE do not get in the habit of just shoveling them over to cooking.se - while preparation, flavor, substitution, etc. are all on-topic there, pure nutrition is n...

(Picked up from the Teachers' Lounge)

7:46 PM
@JosephWright WOW!
We are in heaven.

@PauloCereda We're lucky that our scope is very clear
TeX.sx is also building on a tradition of TeX support: other sites are trying to build new ideas from the ground up

@JosephWright Indeed. :-)

I totally agree with this guy, we need more focus. Let's get rid of these ConTeXt guys always bragging that it works with their thing when it's hard with LaTeX.

@Raphink (/me Mentally adds smiley to that!)

8:07 PM
@Raphink Unfortunately for the ConTeXt users, I think "those ConTeXt guys" is basically Aditya. (Who of course, knows a lot, but it would be nice to have more.) I always try to upvote those answers even though I don't use ConTeXt.

@AlanMunn It does seem a little that way, but I thought @Patrick was also using ConTeXt
Taco pops in, too

From what I understood, @Patrick mostly uses his own non-TeX Lua-based toolchain with XML.

@Raphink Ah
'Just here for the Luaz'

But @khaledhosny uses ConTeXt iirc.

@Raphink Oh yes, of course

8:10 PM
We don't seem to get that many ConTeXt questions generally.

It would be nice to have more ConTeXt experts here

@AlanMunn Well, there's a very active ConText list

(So we can fight on meta about the scope of this site)

Also, 'in the wild', LaTeX users > ConTeXt users
@Raphink Luckily, we know ConTeXt is on-topic
I can't believe that Fitness is trying to remove stuff in their title from 'on topic'
But then I've only glanced over the issue: there's probably more to it

@JosephWright The more time I spend here, the more I see how inefficient mailing lists are.

8:16 PM
@AlanMunn You do answer the same question a lot
c.t.t is okay, particularly for discussion

@JosephWright And there often seems to be a person or two who responds with flawed/irrelevant info. The voting system here keeps that very much in check.

@JosephWright: Luckily, I'm only joking :-)

@Raphink :-)

@JosephWright Yes, c.t.t. is still a great resource (especially since some of the super experts like Dan Leuking, David Kastrup, Donald Arseneau and Heko Oberdiek are there but not here.)

@AlanMunn Also Philipp Lehmann

8:22 PM
But it's true that TeX.SX is a very friendly bunch of people. The various things (like the community blog and the TUG membership) show a nice dynamic here.
I also suspect that quite a few of the people who started TeX.SX knew each other before the beta, and that it probably helped.

@Raphink True: a lot of the 'core' people are regulars elsewhere

It's not the case in most new SX 2.0 websites.
So they have to create a new community out of the blue, without knowing one another (when I mean people here know one another, some even met in person).

@Raphink I think the only person on the site I've met is @robinfairbairns

ok
are you going to any conferences?
TeX-related or not (like FOSDEM, LinuxTag or so)

@Raphink Unlikely at present: it's time off work plus cash required

8:25 PM
I see
I also haven't attended any for a few years, mostly since I got married.

Perhaps in the future, if I end up with an 'enforced career change' :-)
Or perhaps I'll go mad and offer to hold TUG2012 in the UK!

@JosephWright Yay! So I can go to UK and watch a proper Premier League game!

9:01 PM
@JosephWright I used ConTeXt until a few years ago, but I found it too complicated.
@Raphink Correct, except when I have some normal text processing to do (book, letters, invoices), then I use LaTeX or (duck) Pages
@JosephWright You got brain-washed by HM and GN and joined Teacher's Lounge? ;-)

@Patrick No, just seeing what goes on
To be honest, there's not much for us, as it's pretty clear when something should be migrated to TeX.sx
I've been trying to get a handle on how other SE sites operate
It's a scary place

So you don't migrate ConTeXt questions to tex.sx? ;)

So this friend of mine was in a TCS conference. He saw a girl approaching, came closer to her and said, "Do you like using LaTeX?". She punched him in the face, said "Idiot!" and walked away. He was like, "Oh boy, another MS Word user..."
2

@Patrick The 'context' tag on StackOverflow isn't even about ConTeXt!

@Patrick It's under by "favorite chat rooms" which I rejoin every time I in the chat, but I hardly read anything there.
@JosephWright Yes, because it is a different context!

9:14 PM
@MartinScharrer I'm keeping an eye out for any 'CHAOS' stuff
in relation to us, of course
I feel we are safe at the moment: some of the other sites seem to have serious issues

@PauloCereda Yeah, LaTeX vs. latex (the rubber stuff) ...
I started to use 'latex tex' in all my early Google searches.
Luckily there aren't many latex fetishists in Texas...

@MartinScharrer Yes, AdWords is certainly fun

haha

@MartinScharrer Well, it's got no wiki tag, so it could be ...

So a context tag has another context than a ConTeXt tag would have if the former context tag was referring to ConTeXt instead of context?

9:21 PM
@PauloCereda Yes, exactly :-)
@PauloCereda, @JosephWright: Check out this LaTeX article and its use of an latex image :-) markelikalderon.com/2007/04/14/latex-and-subversion

@MartinScharrer /me Pointedly does not ask how you found this!

@JosephWright Yeah, I'm the author of svn-multi so it popped up in one of my Google searches if anyway has issues with this package.

@Raphink That's what I also usually do

@MartinScharrer latex it is! :-)

9:26 PM
@PauloCereda it's latex and LaTeX, that conjunction may be rare
however it might be one of the best conjunctions

(Tug 2011 programme) Anyone knows what "Typesetting with masonry" is about?

@NN indeed! This article should make a cameo in one of the TUGboat issues.

@Patrick I guess Concrete Math?
Unless it's a lot more physical

No TUG confs in South America? Oh.

@PauloCereda Offer to run the next one :-)

9:34 PM
@JosephWright I wish! I can't even run birthday parties. :-)
And it would need to be in a nice place.

@JosephWright No idea. I just found bansisworld.org/about - nothing of particular interest for me

OMG Justin Bieber?!
/me facepalm

@JosephWright Wow. You are trolling. You've gotta be trolling. Please tell me you're trolling.

@PauloCereda It was on the BBC website a while ago
Seemed appropriate
Right, time for bed

9:40 PM
:-D
@JosephWright Good night! :-)

@PauloCereda I'm going too

@Patrick Good night, Patrick! ;-)
(still 6:48pm in here)

It's midnight here now

hm bed time then. :-)

night

9:56 PM
Will ConTeXt users wear TeX t-shirts? :-)

@PauloCereda (Oh, I am still here...) I think so. There have been shirts on the last ConTeXt meetings I attended. But now its Oct. 5th here.

@Patrick :-)

Anyone have time to help me with something? How to I keep LaTeX from indenting the start of a sentence? Just for one paragraph at the start of a quotation environment. If this is non-trival I'll make a question out of it.

@Canageek \noindent

@AlanMunn Thanks.

10:07 PM

And the flu is back. Oh.

OH, I actually read a book that used old style numerals today!
I wonder if my TA would object if I used them for all the numbers in my essay? >.>

hehe

In other news: How much of a geek am I if I checked ever serif typefact on CTAN for 7s with a bar through them?
Only one has it, and it isn't a formal looking one. I'm very disappointed.

10:22 PM
@AlanMunn: hypothetical question: what would you do if one of your students portrait you as a cartoon in a beamer presentation? Like in here: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/30329/…

@PauloCereda I might been in favour of that. I'm against real images. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/41?m=2062714#2062714 (Actually, there's one.)
@Canageek No, but I thought the comment was amusing (as is the site name.)

@AlanMunn Nice! Check your mail. :-P

@AlanMunn Are you SURE that is supposed to be you?

10:33 PM
@PauloCereda Of course, I'm not your advisor. Do you think he'll mind? Is he bald? Does he care?

@AlanMunn I think he'll like. :-)

@Canageek That's the link that's evidence of my opposition to real pictures of me online.
@PauloCereda So then it's fine. (Since he's a co-author, I assume he'll see the slides before you present anyway?)

@AlanMunn Yes. :-)
@AlanMunn Check again. I'm a good designer. :-)

@PauloCereda Bem simpatico!

@AlanMunn A great man. :-)

10:42 PM
Glares at all the orange highlighted \autocite commands in annoyance Stupid TeXStudio

6

I've been using the mathdesign package (specifically with the garamond font), and whenever I try using \hbar, the bar is much too high and to the left. In order to fix this, I wanted to know how to redefine \hbar to be an h with a bar that I can move around until it looks aesthetically pleasing.

@Canageek using this question you can make your own barred 7 in any font. ([0pt][-3pt] seems to get it right for CM)

@AlanMunn Doesn't messing around with the typeface screw up all the word that has been put into hinting and such?

Admittedly it's not terribly pretty, since a real barred 7 in a serifed font would have a serifed bar too.
@Canageek Oh probably. But for numbers, it's probably not as big a deal. (Also it would be a bit of work to make all the 7s like that automatically.)

@AlanMunn I'll just wait for LuaTeX to work with microtype fully then switch over and find a nice OTF font.
@AlanMunn I wish there was an easy way to look up the typeface a printed book was in, but I suspect there is no database of such things.

One comment on the Adobe forum said this "
There is simply no call for such a thing in type, since type isn't subject to the sloppyness of handwriting. If it ever was incorporated in a font I would only expect it in a free-flowing hand-lettered style. Otherwise it would just look contrived and silly. "

10:50 PM
@AlanMunn That sounds like a stylistic complaint. There is no reason to make the & is Computer Modern all swashy, but they did it anyway.

@Canageek Sometimes its listed in the colophon of the book. There are also some online sites: identifont.com and new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont

@AlanMunn I don't have a scanner. Also I've had very poor luck with identifont's automatic recognition.

@Canageek The last sentence is, but I think the general point is simply a reflection of the state of affairs of the font design world, thus making crossed 7s in regular fonts extremely rare.

@AlanMunn Fair enough.

@Canageek Well nothing's perfect. But it's usually not too hard to identify fonts with a bit of practice and good exemplars to match against.

10:54 PM
@AlanMunn True, but I don't spend nearly enough time with them to do so. I wonder if it would be possible to look up the font Oxford University Press used in 1970?
Also wondering how on earth to cite a book with 2 editors and no single authors :S

Google Books might help on finding page excerpts and submitting them to a font analyzer.

@Canageek What do you mean? So none of the individual chapters have authors? If that's the case, then you would just cite the editors.

bicycles.sx has a nice layout! bicycles.stackexchange.com

@AlanMunn Each chapter has an individual author, do I have to cite each chapter @.@
:D My citation system knows the editor = {} feild.

Yay, I found Andrew on apple.sx!

11:05 PM
@Canageek For this you use the "incollection" bibtex entry, and you cite the individual authors. e.g. Smith John, 1999. "My cool paper on foo", in Joe Blow and Bob Brown (eds.) Their Great Edited Book. Oxford: OUP.

@AlanMunn The guide at chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html says you can cite the editors, which is a LOT less work.

@Canageek So each chapter gets a separate entry (actually just the ones you use.) In the author field you enter the chapter author, and then in the editor field you enter the editors.
@Canageek That's not how I read that link. (Chapter of book section.)

@AlanMunn But if you look at 'Editor instead of Author' I think I can use that, since only the editor is listed on the front page. Also the editor is the one my TA referred me to, so he is going to want to see that in my citation section ;)

@Canageek Well that I don't know. But in the real world :-) chapters by different authors are always cited using the form I gave you. (modulo formatting differences among the various schemes.) My field uses APA not MLA citations, but MLA and Chicago are no different in this respect. If you are referring to a whole book (as your TA did) the editor is correct. But any reference to an actual chapter's material should be separately cited.

@AlanMunn I'll make a note to ask him about that, I can always redo it if he wants it the longer way.

11:13 PM
(my .bib files give me shivers.)

@AlanMunn How do you get MLA output? I looked into that but gave up and moved to Chicago (We can use either of the two, but must use superscript citations)

11:44 PM
Triangle man, triangle man. Triangle man hates particle man. They have a fight, triangle wins. Triangle man.

@Canageek There's the biblatex-mla package, which works well as far as I know. For the humanities, biblatex is basically required.

@AlanMunn I'm using BibLaTeX and biber. Were you not one of the people that spent ages helping me that that working?

@Canageek Yes I was.