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12:04 AM
Sunday I start 21 days of no meats and no sweets . Gotta come up with some good recipes
12:32 AM
@rfusca this is my absolutely favorite winter soup, which happens to be vegan. tastes best when it has at least 6 hours to meld even more anewwaytocook.com/Pages/ANWTC/recipe_b7.htm
1 hour later…
1:36 AM
6 hours later…
7:51 AM
@rfusca Are you fasting every year?
6 hours later…
2:13 PM
Finally, I have a first draft of my new Avocado answer. At this point I'm planning on swapping out the answer that is there, for this one, and moving the answer that is currently there to a question titled, "Do lemon juice, lime juice, vinegar or Fruit Fresh help keep avocado green?"
And to anyone else who may want to chime in:
Whew, OK, that's it.
My biggest concern is swapping out an unseen answer in a space that has 108 upvotes.
I also hear what Rummi has said about keeping everything together.
Right now my thinking is that this makes the most sense for the reason I laid out in the first section.
@Jolenealaska I'm all right with any system which allows users to find the information they are looking for.
2:29 PM
That answers "what works?"
If we can avoid having one giant blob, it's even better
The other answer answers "what doesn't work?"
To me this doesn't look to big, especially with the TL;DR at the top.
@Jolenealaska This is a logically sound criterion which allows for easy separation to you, the writer. The problem is that no reader is interested in knowing one without the other.
so whenever somebody finds one, he'll start thinking about the other
and if he does not find his opinion already posted, he'll add it to the discussion
I do direct the reader to the other answer and sumorize it in this one (at the very top)
@Jolenealaska Maybe I should stop discussing it before I have read your new answer :)
2:33 PM
Ha! Maybe :)
Sorry it's so long...
It was a lot longer :)
I'm not saying your current idea doesn't work (because I haven't seen it yet), I was just clarifying what's my viewpoint of a successful structure.
@Jolenealaska that's good. Learning to trim is the hardest part of learning to write well :)
I'm going to make myself some coffee.
Back in a bit.
good morning
@Jolenealaska Because you have just mentioned a layer of sour cream on top of the guacamole, this suggests you want a layer of onion on top of the guacamole. But in reality, the onion just has to be inside the container, no matter how it is laid out (layer or no layer), correct?
2:42 PM
@rumtscho I do a 21 day fast sometime around the start of every year, yes
Yes, and I have pictures, but not until later in the text,
.it would be better to not use the word "layer".
How about "Enclosing the avocado with diced onion significantly slows browning as long as the container stays closed"?
I have more tiny things.
I'm planning on sticking this answer into a slot that already has 108 upvotes, so I do want it to be good
2:47 PM
I don't understand this.
Onion is a silly mistake
Is it that browning starts if you remove the lid, even if you put it back on immediately after?
should be avocado.
OK got it.
2:49 PM
So by replacing the lid you simply you put the stuff in the container, right?
I removed the lids to snap the picture. I replaced the lids, and within thirty minutes, I could see the avocado starting to brown on the side with the onion. By morning it was all over.
But what does that suggest?
If you had kept the lid on, would the onionless sample have fared differrently?
That the gas...which I'm glad you mentioned, I haven't named it, escaped.
Probably not: you are merely telling readers that you didn't put them in the fridge lidless.
Wait, what gas? This is about the onionless container, right?
The one with the onions is not mentioned, is it?
Let me reread...
I see the problem...hold on...
2:56 PM
7 mins ago, by Jolenealaska
Onion is a silly mistake
Perhaps this chat line of yours is wrong after all.
And onion was correct.
yes...fixing and clarifying...
Avocados are so complicated!
But it may please you to know that the knowledge of avocado-keeping is spreading from Alaska to the other side of the world.
I tell as many people as I can without seeming obnoxious. Or more so than usually.
Who know guacamole was so intriguing :)
It has spread to another SE site too, and I thought I'd be done with this like a week ago. It's a point of pride now! I've got to get this thing posted.
3:06 PM
doing experiments is fun :)
Yes, it is. That's a thing I really enjoy about this site.
@Jolenealaska Great! So the onion doesn't give off enough gas any more after 9 hours.
People are forever asking questions that can be easily answered playing Mr Wizard.
Mr Wizard?
No, that's not it. It's that I opened it.
Mr Wizard is an American children's science show.
It's kind of clumsy, but I further the time without opening the container in the Vit C section.
The guacamole stays acceptable for 4 days with the onion, as long as the container stays closed.
Better though with the C.
3:16 PM
@Jolenealaska It was open when you first put in the onions.
Oh, I see how you read my line.
We're both right.
Sure, I diced the onions, put the avocado on top, then immediately closed the container and kept it closed for 9 hours.
After 9 hours, I removed the lid to snap a picture.
Yeah I understand.
So have you tried putting the guac/C in the fridge without a lid?
That would be my preferred method of storing it.
And how about leaving the guac/C on the counter top?
That would be even more preferential...
No, no point because the first experiment showed that the avocado dries out before it browns in the fridge without a lid.
I did mashed avocado with C on the countertop. There wasn't much of a difference between that and plain.
Where the difference is compelling is in the fridge, in tupperware or tightly wrapped.
So I need a more comprehensive conclusion at the end of the answer.
@Jolenealaska Oh, I see. So how bad is that, drying out? After 24 hours, a thin dry layer that you can easily remove? Or worse?
@Jolenealaska So...with C, it still browned on the countertop?
@Jolenealaska Noted.
The drying out in the fridge is covered here:
Q: Browning Avocados - What Helps?

JolenealaskaYears ago Koobz asked "Oxidized Avocado: What's Going on & How to Prevent It?" That question has been merged with this one because it's dealing with the same issue. Recently, we had this question: Are limes and lime juice more acidic than lemons and lemon juice?. Now I'm just curious, I want an ...

3:26 PM
@Jolenealaska That would be cool! I am asking these questions just to be "complete": I kind of get that storing it covered and with C is the best solution in practice.
Yes...that is the conclusion.
Guac treated with C in tupperware or ziploc is best.
If you are serving guac at at a later time, diced onions accomplish the same thing IF you don't open the container.
I would probably do C in a plastic bag that's closed of but with air, for convenience.
@Jolenealaska Yes, yes, very good.
And that's fine, with C.
3:30 PM
i didn't see - did you try vacuuming sealing?
@Jolenealaska Yes, yes.
@rfusca She did, and it helps. Especially combined with C.
But C helps more...right?
Almost. I used little ziplocs with all of the air removed.
C helps most of everything.
The airtight-no air helps, the onions help, the C flat out solves it.
> There came a point about 12 hours in that the refrigerated side just stopped browning. It had dried out, leaving it more green than the non-refrigerated side, but no more pleasant. All of the samples browned and dried out fairly equally.
So I will write a concluding paragraph that makes that clear. (that C rocks)
So...what you are saying here is that outer layer has dried out and therefore has stopped browning, but inside it's still moist and browner than the outside layer?
I am still not entirely sure what uncovered refrigerated C is like after 24 hours.
3:34 PM
Outer layer is dry, slightly browned - Inner layer is still OK, but there is a lot of waste in the outer layer.
Ah okay.
That is clear.
@rdp how was the chicken?
Well, you're right, I did not do C uncovered, but I don't have any reason to suspect that there is any advantage there.
So what I will do is probably wrap the bowl I served the guac/C in in a plastic bag, close the bag (twisting it or something) and put it in the fridge.
@Jolenealaska Oh, wait, so this wasn't about C?
Yep, that's the way to do it!
I showed that avocado in tupperware browns without C.
That with C it doesn't, as long as it's covered.
3:39 PM
But C refrigerated but uncovered? You haven't done that? Or you haven't shown it?
I didn't do C uncovered, in the fridge, because I didn't see a point.
I also like that you give a proportion, 1:500.
@Jolenealaska For lazy people who just put the bowl in the fridge.
I prefer bowl in bag over tupperware, by the way, because then you don't have an extra item to wash up, and you don't need to scoop it out of the old vessel into the new one.
If "vessel" is an appropriate word at all.
Well, the effort to put a lid on it or put it in a baggie is still expected :)
I normally make guac in a bowl.
Not in a container.
Some Saran Wrap on top.
3:42 PM
I prefer a plastic bag over plastic wrap if there is no difference.
Much easier to handle.
Plastic wrap = Saran wrap
Bag, not wrap.
Baggie is fine.
3:44 PM
Without C, I normally put the bowl in the fridge but press a plastic bag tightly against the surfance of the guac.
Perhaps I should have also wrapped the whole into a second bag.
So I will write up a concluding paragraph, and thank you for your input.
People might even edit your answer, watch out hehe.
Other than to fix an errant typo, I wouldn't expect an edit. I would roll-back any edit that I don't like.
As is your right.
Damn straight!:)
I'm going to go work on that concluding paragraph, I'll be back when it is done.
3:55 PM
Good luck.
4:26 PM
And I think that's it.
4:50 PM
Sous-vide St Louis style ribs.
@Jolenealaska nice :D
taste as good as they look?
Super tender.
The ribs just pull out clean.
how long at what temp?
@Jolenealaska Those look lovely! How long did you cook them?
Those were 152F for 12 hours, then I decided they weren't quite done enough (I sealed 3 packages separately) so I bumped up the temp to 165F for 4 more hours.
Then I slathered them with Sweet Baby Rays (lazy, I know, but good anyway) and put them under the broiler until a bit charred on both sides.
5:14 PM
@Jolenealaska I've learned a pretty good trick from a Mexican person I know for conserving guacamole. Before refrigerating she would spread a thin (approx. 5mm) of salsa on top of the guacamole. When you serve it again later it tastes fresh like you just made it.
That's the same theory as the water, sour cream or vacuum sealing. That helps a lot, not as much as the Vitamin C.
5:32 PM
@Jolenealaska thatas much higher than I did mine. I did like 145 i think for 20 hours
I was actually surprised that I preferred a higher temp and longer time. I like the fall off the bone texture, which it just didn't have until I bumped it up to 165.
So total time was less (12+4)
but final temp was much higher.
My primary reference is Modernist Cuisine.
150-165 was their recommended range.
Even though I like most things at lowest end of the spectrum, I guess ribs is an exception.
I like the 2nd batch much more than the first.
i'll try it higher next time
mine definitely fell off the bone
but the texture was different that normal ribs
5:47 PM
Hold on, I'll snap another picture that illustrates.
yay, I'm back on real internet at home now
This is kind of gross, especially since I had to dig through the trash for the first bone.
got a little bit faster from cleaner lines, but it's also above ground, so more likely to go out with the power
This was last night after 12 hours at 152.
@Jolenealaska you can call it the michael jackson
though I guess to really be the Michael Jackson, the dark meat would have to become light meat too
5:54 PM
I kind of gnawed around the bone. It was plenty tender, but the bone didn't just slip out.
After 4 more hours at 165:
ya i mean, mine slipped out nice and clean - but I went for a bit more than 20 hours
See how clean those are?
thats what mine looked like around 145
We are probably at 6 of one, half dozen of another then.
5:57 PM
But I definitely prefer the slip-out clean bone, whatever method gets us there.
12 at 152 did not do it for me.
Hi @AJHenderson I've been bouncing around...sorry! Glad you're back!
6:13 PM
I attempted an answer on the fat as preservative... would like to hear if you think it's ok?
Confit is exactly what came to my mind too. I would say that your answer is probably absolutely correct.
Ok good thanks for looking it over
6:36 PM
@TomW so what's the story re: your new avatar?
You don't look like yourself!
@Jolenealaska that would be a joke for the StackOverflow guys
Change is scary!
Very often in chat there are poorly-worded gibberish drive-by questions for which the only valid response is "...wat"
That's the wat bin.
I actually took that photo as I happened to pass it
The coincidence amused me
6:38 PM
we get those here too, but not so many. NICE!
It's on Watlington Street, but why the owner thought the first three letters and no house number would be sufficient...
<shrug> she can pick it out of a line-up?
She can now. It's the only one with WAT written on it
Do you have time to read my way too long avocado thing?
2 edits after talking to Cerby.
4 hours ago, by Jolenealaska
Finally, I have a first draft of my new Avocado answer. At this point I'm planning on swapping out the answer that is there, for this one, and moving the answer that is currently there to a question titled, "Do lemon juice, lime juice, vinegar or Fruit Fresh help keep avocado green?"
4 hours ago, by Jolenealaska
user image
2 hours ago, by Jolenealaska
user image
looks good to me
6:49 PM
I'm just about ready to post it. I'd sure like to hear from Rummi or Jef first, but I think it's time for me to bit the bullet and just do it.
@Jolenealaska because if you waited an hour, then somebody else might swoop in with an all encompassing experiment as well?
It's that I said on another site that I'd have it posted last week.
So, it's kind of bugging me that it has taken as long as it has.
@Jolenealaska I'm around here, but trying to get other stuff done
I understand.
I don't mean to rush or be a nag.
no, demand satisfaction now!
mods can't have lives
poke @rumtscho
6:53 PM
and I trust you to write a good answer on your own :)
especially seeing 1) how much time it took you, you have certainly polished it, and 2) with your home experiment, you'll be posting information nobody has. This is valuable, even if your style turns out to not be perfect.
Swapping out that particular answer is a bit squirrelly.
So, I'm OK with it if you post now what you find best
@Jolenealaska You could preface it with a large "Second edition, see history for earlier version" and maybe leave a comment that you'd understand people retracting votes after such a swap. I doubt that anybody will actually retract them, if the second version is like the first one, but more so.
That's a good idea.
and, if some kind of trouble comes up, we can deal with it later. But I don't think there will be much.
or, you could go for more transparency and ask on Meta first
Doing it this way is going to cause it to have a lot fewer upvotes, so if I preface it that way, I don't see anyone holding it against me.
6:58 PM
make a question stating that you plan to replace your highest voted answer which is, in your eyes, much better quality. Ask if anybody finds this unfair.
I doubt that many people will see it, it will be the usual crowd
Meta is probably a pretty good idea, even though the same people are likely to see it there as here.
but you show this way that you care for the community's opinion, and aren't doing it for the rep, but will accept community criticism even if it leads to less rep for you
and if anybody comes later to complain, you could point him to the Meta question and say "I asked for everybody's opinion before doing it. But if you have any complaint now, post it there".
Especially if you have already gotten encouraging answers on Meta - and I suspect you will - an old grumpy won't feel so supported in attacking you there.
Ok, that's what I am going to do. I'm also going to point out the meta discussion on the other site, so they at least have the info now, even if I don't post it on main right away.
Yes, it's probably better to wait a day or two after the Meta question before doing the swap. Unless you get a "please do it!" answer with several upvotes early. Then you can go on at any point, knowing that this is what the community wants.
Sounds good.
7:05 PM
I will personally not write that answer, because frankly, I'd love to see more non-moderator participation in Meta, so I hope somebody else will write it. But if I see it written, I'll upvote.
I'm going to do that now, and that will also allow the other site to read the answer now if they want to.
I'd be happy to share my thoughts on it on meta. It's pretty exciting you've really put in the time to come up with real data and an experiment
So, I'm off to put it on Meta.
Do questions on meta get into a feed to this room?
@Jolenealaska oh, to make it clear (although I'm 90% sure there's no misunderstanding): I didn't mean that you should offer the new full text on Meta for scrutiny, but that you simply say what you did ("I made more experiments, and completely rewrote the text based on the new information").
7:12 PM
I was kind of figuring that plus a bit of summary, to show why the new answer answers the question in a way that the old one doesn't.
@Jolenealaska Not posting the summary may make them want the answer more :) but it's up to you.
I'll play it by ear :)
haha, again a cute hot title on Arquade. Not a double entendre, but still.
Q: What if I'm wiped out battling against the legendary Pokémon?

VanillaMy brother failed to save before battling the legendary (Groudon), and saved afterwards when his team had been wiped out by Groudon. Upon returning to the Cave of Origin, to the same spot that Groudon first spawned, he is not there. What can be done to make him respawn so he can be battled again,...

My mind just can't stop supplying answers like "you're licked, then" and "well, why did you think it's called legendary? don't whine"
Arquade is a hoot :)
7:27 PM
Hahah! Too bad it's blocked here from my workplace, I'd love to get on there on slow days like today.
7:50 PM
I think this nice answer deserves a bit of love :)
A: What are marshmallows?

JolenealaskaMarshmallows are a white, fluffy candy, that easily melts and becomes sticky. They are almost all sugar (and corn syrup which is also sugar), with whipped gelatine. They're vanilla flavored, usually with clear vanillin, because the pure whiteness is the very essence of the candy. They're somet...

8:04 PM
@Phrancis Those are some yummy pictures. I feel hungry just looking at them.
Thank you, but those are easy gimmies. It's just a matter of digging up some pretty pictures and maybe a video if you can find one on the topic. That answer probably took all of 10 minutes. It's just purty :)
I didn't know you could make marshmallows. I thought they just happened.
This guy is asking for a world of headaches lol.
Did you see the link to marshmallow farmer woes :)
in comments?
8:23 PM
@Jolenealaska lemon chicken sous vide and then i'm going to finish it with a white wine butter sauce
Chicken breast is my next thing to sous-vide.
yup, this is my first chicken
@rfusca That sounds really good
thanks :D hopefully it will be
I've done thighs, and I didn't find sous-vide all that great for dark meat. I think white meat will be where it's at for sous-vide.
8:31 PM
keep it nice and moist
@Jolenealaska what does modernist recommend for temp/time on chicken?
Is it bone in breast?
nope, boneless
boneless, skinless?
141F for 2-4
8:34 PM
anova recommends 146F for 1-4
Would sous-vide be useful for any food other than just meat/fish?
Eggs for one
That was the last thing I expected you to suggest!
certain veggies - carrots for example
with a vac chamber sealer, custards are supposed to be great
MC gives a range of 136 (a bit too low for the author) to 147F (a bit dry for the author)
8:37 PM
although I guess you could do that just ziplock style
Eggs can be done to absolute perfection in sous-vide
A perfect soft boiled was great to do, also whole yolks as an Asian soup garnish.
Lemon Curd!
i've done the in-can condensed milk dulche de leche in the crockpot before
Dulce de Leche!
its really good
8:42 PM
I've done it many times on the stovetop. Makes great ice cream.
Did you see my candied salt thing?
That MAKES the ice cream...hold on...
Q: Can you candy salt? (Experiment Results)

JolenealaskaBear with me... I'm working on a pretty amazing ice cream. It's Dulce de Leche, made the kind of scary traditional way of boiling cans of sweetened condensed milk, then mixing that with a custard and freezing it in my ice cream maker. As a recipe, it's getting there. I use the scraped seeds of a...

Wow I'm impressed you can do all these things with a sous-vide, I might need to invest in one. What brand do you like? What kind of price?
I got the Anova (1st edition) for Christmas.
8:45 PM
this is what I got:
second edition of the one she has
The 2nd edition has some whistles and bells I wouldn't use anyway, otherwise it's pretty much the same. $25 less, a bit prettier.
and a little cheaper
jinx again?
Apparently :)
Ah ok. I have a pretty small kitchen, are these very big?
also, you'll need a cooking vessel of some kind and either a vacuum sealer or ziplocks
8:48 PM
(or can they be used in any room?)
Shoebox sized.
@Phrancis the device is small but you'll need a pot or such to attach it to
Can be used anywhere there is an outlet.
@Phrancis it can be used anywhere
i've done it in the garage
Ok, so does it work just fine with ziplocks? I can't afford a vacuum sealer right now
8:50 PM
Amazon has a perfectly functional vacuum sealer for <$40, also shoebox sized.
ahh ok
Is it mostly a matter of a ziplock being more prone to being punctured or leaking from the opening?
I had problems with ziplocs leaking.
They were OK, but the vacuum sealer is better.
Can you freeze cooked goods right within the sealed bag?
(and warm them up with the device too)
you can
Sounds like even just the convenience of it alone would be worth the price, let alone if it makes great food
8:55 PM
That is actually a new question (actually my answer) on main.
Oh I think I saw that
And I still haven't completed mine :( Haven't touched it in 2 years, actually. With the new commercial ones, it's almost not worth it nowadays.
A: How Long Can I Store Seasoned, Vacuum Sealed Chicken

JolenealaskaSince you're cooking by sous-vide anyway, why don't you put the vacuum sealed, seasoned chicken breasts in the freezer? You just put the still frozen packs into the circulator a half-hour or 45 minutes sooner. Then you will always have a no-muss no-fuss dinner at the ready. Here's a YouTube vide...

@Phrancis i'm not sure on the convenience tbh
I keep promising myself I'll finish it, but I always have other projects with higher priority.
8:57 PM
to get the best flavor, you still need to sear it in a traditional pan
and you've got to set it all up, seal everything
Also, I'm not looking forward to programm a PID in C. I don't know C :(
I see
but the food can be phenomenal
absolutely amazing
but its not magic
some things work better than others
I think the one exception to that might be boneless, skinless breasts.
@Jolenealaska ?
8:58 PM
That searing is necessary
have fun boys and girls, use your toys, and describe it here. I might just get motivated enough to finish mine.
and good night for today.
G'night Rummi.
@rumtscho Good night
@Jolenealaska searing definitely contributes flavor on those...
@rumtscho If you need a little programming help/advice, make sure you check out The 2nd Monitor there are several people that know C who hang there :)
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