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12:46 AM
superuser.com/questions/856576/… this and the meta discussion comes up as really funny in my head, because everytime they have had a DMCA war google has joined the protest :-) SOPA blackout , google ticked off that they have to comply with removals etc. When it suits google they are all for "open". When it comes to protecting thier $$$ , and thier methods of delivery well , lets keep those rules.
@Psycogeek: More often that not though, DRM is something the studios/labels insist on.
I wouldnt touch the meta question, because i would have to show citations, but the Digital millenium copyright stuff many pages and layers deep, has in it wording that suggests the discussion of the decoding and decryping methods used , is not allowed. That the materials cannot BE protected if all the protection is defeated , by telling how it works and providing programatic ways to stop it from working, dissasembly and all
So while i think it sucks, and I rarely agree with Mokubais harshness :-) SU is probably "not the place" to dissasemble protection, and there are 500 other places you can get that info instead.
kinda almost right: i.imgur.com/TD9pezw.png
@ekaj The weather's been really bizarre lately
Seems Christmas will be rainy for us New Yorkers this year
1:02 AM
Pretty clear here in WV
okay maybe not it just started pouring rain
1:27 AM
"I installed VLC and tried it. The video "plays," as in it progresses through the timeline and has the correct length, but there's no audio and the only video is the default VLC logo that shows when there's nothing playing." which could be a codec issue (very easily). Or could relate back to VLC themselves was hit with the DMCA . at least one time a decoding library thing for VLC was herassed and removed from distribution. the purpose of it was just one method for bypassing the protection.
If it is a codec issue, and they started a DRM war over it, user should be taken out back and given 50 lashes with a wet noodle
1:42 AM
Happy turkey-eating non-american holiday!
May you not be eaten by a cat or be stuffed in a bag by Krampus
Q: How to boot a computer?

yugendra babuTo boot a computer. I was playing in my computer, that time power has been cut off. When I start it again after power came I am unable to boot it. What can I do for this?

Not sure if trolling or...
2:31 AM
Might be complete cluelessness.
3:16 AM
Q: Video freezes/times-out when trying to watch 'The Interview' on second monitor on youtube and other services

boulder_rubyOK, the second monitor is my TV, but is Google onto me here? Can youtube or other online streaming services detect when I'm video & audio outing my display as a second monitor via hdmi? Can they detect that and respond to it? and if so, can I prevent them from having this information somehow s...

I'm curious if these exists an enterprise 3.5-inch solid-state drive with extremely high storage density, as in 16 TB or more of NAND in a large stack of PCBs inside the device
If you did not try other videos of the same type , then 50 Lashes with a wet noodle to you too :-) Oh its the interview, it must be something they are doing to try and Stop me . Yea and there is a DMCA van with 2 investigators sitting outside in a van in front of your house, and 2 terrorist
I would imagine that such a device would cost over US$10k, but it would be useful in datacenters...
There are people who raided together 16 & 32 smaller SSDs, just to ?? say they did it.
@DragonLord: nope
I THINK they top out a 1-2 TB
You'd use an array of those for more space.
3:21 AM
I still think there is a market for Tall 3.5s that still fit in bays. with more platters. and yea bunches of huge chips too
Also, quite often 2.5 inch drives are preferred
@Psycogeek: Might as well go crazy and use a 5 inch drive.
@DragonLord: For that matter, I've NEVER seen a 3.5 inch SATA SSD
@JourneymanGeek Need not be SATA. SAS is what I would expect for such a device.
@JourneymanGeek that too, i would prefer big over these new ideas of overlapping data writes , and cramming stuff together so much reliability drops any ammount.
@DragonLord: If you want speed + storage capasity, you'd go PCIe ;p
...and I've been thinking about bulk backup storage for a while
Is a hard drive dock specified for 4TB drives able to accept 6TB drives?
3:23 AM
@DragonLord: in theory yes.
The 4TB spec implies the dock takes GPT drives
and GPT scales up to ludicious sizes
I have one of those Thermaltake BlacX hard drives and I'd like to treat it as if it were a tape drive, with high-density hard drives as "tapes"
The fact that they make these sorts of docks lets you treat hard drives as storage cartridges
3:26 AM
At that point tho, wouldn't building/buying a NAS with hotswappable bays make sense?
The dock itself is readily available and reasonably priced
@JourneymanGeek I only need a simple DAS solution
eSATA is the preferred interface, both of my computers have eSATA ports
and pull the power when they are moving sectors :-) Docks are great, drop in this or that raw disk like putting SD cards in a single reader. But I dont trust nothing so extra care with slopping them out is important.
@Psycogeek eSATA supports hot-swapping, the dock supports hot-swapping, the SATA interface itself supports hot-swapping
There's a reason some of the pins on the SATA interface are longer than others
@DragonLord let the server people hot-swap, things happen internally. but then again i am always in "performance" modes so not only that but there is data still hanging out in a cache too.
Thermaltake's BlacX hard drive docking system has been around for a long time (since 2008)
3:31 AM
I think @BenRichards just got one ;p
@DragonLord for a single system it makes sense
I don't think a simple DAS scales
(granted, a longer term goal of mine is to simplify my home network, and so your needs may vary)
I want this specific hat :-) "start bounty during hanukkah" anybody have a question that needs or could use a huge X-mas bounty , in hopes that some drunk between x-mas an new years could possibly answer it?
3:57 AM
@OliverSalzburg Probably something in the build script, considering that was changed recently, and the userscript still works.
4:13 AM
@DragonLord Look up RDX. That's the enterprisey one designed for this purpose.
Can be painful to use, though.
And far more expensive than raw internal (or other consumer) HDDs :P
@DragonLord It doesn't come up as a tape drive. Just as a removeable disk.
Though Windows still has issues with RDX if you try it natively, and third-party support... depends on the backup product. Some will work with it, others won't.
@Bob Not really what I want. I'm just looking for some decent high-density hard drive with low cost per gigabyte.
Ya, just thought I'd mention the "standard" one.
Is anyone good with RAID?
I am "good with it", it works fine :-) but I only know for windows, only "hardware" based, and only raid0
Because my friend want help with putting his HDDs in RAID 5 1.5TB (250GB, 700GB, 500GB) (700GB, 700GB, 250GB) HDDs in () He wants to put in RAID 0 below RAID 5, So he can use the most space
4:27 AM
How reliable are the new high-density WD Green drives?
So RAID5 thinks that he is USing 3 HDDs when he is using 7
I'm looking to get one to augment my 3+ year old 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12
Is that possable
2TB? 3TB? 4TB?
I don't know how they are
4:28 AM
(They go up to 6TB, but more is not worth it)
I have a 1.5 one from 2011 that stills works
But havn't use it that much
NO they have 8TB HDD
Just don't get anyones with the He Gas in them, get the ones with air. That way if you need to open them you can
@Andrew RAID 5 is heavily not recommended.
10 is best if you want both reliability and speed
6 is acceptable, but won't save you much space over 10 with so few drives
@Andrew ya dont just slop a bunch of disks you have laying around and create a raid mess out of them :-) in the long run this would not be better than using them seperated
^ that too
normally, you'd at least want matched capacity if not carefully selected disks
Yea I figure but My friend did ask for help
4:32 AM
Good night
And that whould make the most sence
RAID 5 has a high risk of data loss
It is better than RAID 0
It is all kinds of fun and learning, and great way to recyle and all, but then just when your purring down the road of data, the whole thing drives off a clif and you spend 2 times as long setting it up trying to get it going again.
@Andrew rebuild failures with RAID 5 are alarmingly common
so, one drive fails. you go to rebuild.
4:33 AM
during the rebuild you encounter a read error on a single sector of another drive, any one other drive
boom, data loss
You are right
I thought it was better than RAID 0
RAID 6 has two parity drives, so safer rebuild
@Andrew: There's a really good question/answer on raid on SF
gimme a moment
4:34 AM
RAID 1 (and RAID 10) has would only have a problem if one specific other drive had a read error, not any other drive in the array
A: What are the different widely used RAID levels and when should I consider them?

Mark HendersonRAID: Why and When RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks (some are taught "Inexpensive" to indicate that they are "normal" disks; historically there were internally redundant disks which were very expensive; since those are no longer available the acronym has adapted). At the mos...

@Andrew It is (for reliability), strictly speaking, but it's still worse than 1 and 6.
Also gives a false sense of security.
I did watch Eli Class on it
4:36 AM
@DragonLord: the 6tb drives seem to be a new line
Probably different setup from the greens
I guess my question is can you put RAID rays into a single RAID ray?
Desktop systems might be better off with seperated backups , as opposed to a hunk of hardware that has the same malware and viruses on it as the clone of the same :-)
I think he's asking if you can put a raid array in a raid array
You can have nested RAID (that is, after all, what RAID 10 is). Specific support depends on your RAID controller (or software, if you go that route)
@Psycogeek That too.
RAID is for uptime.
4:38 AM
Thanks BOB so it is called nested RAID
For data security, you really want backups.
Raid 1 is simple mirroring what goes on disk 1 also goes on disk 2 , either disk can fail, the data still exists on the one that has not failed. it is a Hardware backup, because if you changed deleted or completly screwed something up on disk 1, it would be just as screwed up on disk 2
I know... I was asking @BOB if you want data security than you should go with RAID 1.
Advantage, the hard drive itself can fail, and the data still exists, because there was 2 of them.
4:42 AM
@Andrew No.
Use a proper backup scheme.
RAID only protects against hardware failure.
Isn't better to backup all of you stuff even temp files
What if someone came and deleted all your data?
See: Cryptolocker
4:43 AM
So you'd actually want an offline backup.
Even a server using Raid 1 as the hardware backup method and to keep alive the server, would still have yet one more disk with that data backed up on it.
Better yet, an offsite backup if the data is really important - what happens when your house burns down?
Well so use RAID 11?
Or not use raid at all ;p
And don't allow it to delete anything
4:44 AM
@Andrew It doesn't matter what RAID you use.
Repeat after me:
RAID is not backup.
*RAID Is a backup
RAID is hardware redundancy.
RAID is for uptime.
RAID will not protect my data.
RAID is hardware, and user redundancy
RAID is for uptime/downtime
LOL I know I am just joking
4:45 AM
RAID will not save you from human stupidity or the system going nuts and corrupting things.
Granted, sadly there's very little that saves you from the former.
I thought RAID 1 was use to make backups
@JourneymanGeek Or something like a power surge frying every drive.
@BOB didn't think about that
Or a fire. Or anything else that results in destruction of the system (flood, other disaster).
4:47 AM
or rabbits.
For those cases, you want at the very least an offline (i.e. not plugged in) backup, if not offsite.
So the best thing you can do is have a backup system that backup things on a NAS, and use RAID 1 on the NAS
No raid!
...what is your obsession with RAID?
I mean, if you really needed the NAS to be up all the time...
I don't know because it use alot
4:48 AM
@Andrew: There's more intelligent modern ways of handling these things.
There's no point using a NAS if you only have a single machine to back up.
Well I knwo about HDD going out
You might as well double the backup retention period, or the frequency.
Filesystems do redundancy for example.
simple raid 0 , being totally dependant on Both drives working, can improve speed, then you must (even more) have a backup of the data that was on that, preferably not in a volitile raid configuration. Which mans I still have to more slowly move data to the backups.
4:48 AM
You are right on that
RAID 0 is just sutpid
Again: RAID is for uptime. It keeps your stuff running if a drive fails.
Raid 0 made sense pre SSDs
It is not designed to protect your data. Hardware failure of a single drive is just one of the ways you can lose data - and RAID does nothing to help with the hundreds of other ways.
@Andrew RAID 0 has its uses.
@Bob but you told me no RAID!
I did ;p
4:50 AM
@Bob what is the use, at distorying you data
@JourneymanGeek oops
@Andrew: You need to reframe your question
@Andrew No RAID to protect your data.
What does your storage need to do ?
RAID levels other than 0 are for uptime/redundancy.
4:51 AM
I use raid 0 to get 400MB/s speeds from one set of raid0 to another set of raid0 . with external detached backups that are synked to. Been actually doing that for more than 15 years, and have not lost anything. Sooo i guess i got stupid covered.
(also, I like the idea of Raid-Z, but doing ZFS right is a pain)
RAID 0 is for speed. And it still has its uses even in the SSD era - if you need a whole lot of raw speed with a lot of space, e.g. for raw video processing, a bunch of 2TB+ HDDs in RAID 0 could be useful.
@Bob if you need speed use a PCIe SSD
@Psycogeek Long as you have backups and are willing to restore in the case of failure, RAID 0 is fine.
@Andrew: Higher cost tho.
4:52 AM
@Andrew The cost difference between SSDs and HDDs for, say, 10 TB of space is massive.
You're looking at at least 10x the price.
In limited situations, it makes sense to use a risky setup.
@JourneymanGeek True but less power. I am not going to do the math, but I think you whould save $$$ in the long run if you went with the SSD.
(And even SSDs need backup - remember, drive failure is one of hundreds of possible failure modes.)
@Andrew: Power usage difference isn't that huge.
Most are or at 1 GB/$
Once again though, you're starting at the wrong place
What do you need your storage to do?
4:54 AM
@Andrew So. $2k for 2 TB. That would be 20x that of a HDD.
@JourneymanGeek than why on Ads for Ultrabooks or Chromebooks, sometime you will see more battlery life with ssds
15% more
A single HDD wouldn't cost that much in power usage over five years compared to nothing, let alone compared to an SSD (which does use non-negligible power)
@Andrew: Power is relatively cheap.
@JourneymanGeek depending where you get it from
(annnd... it feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point ;p)
4:56 AM
@JourneymanGeek Wood Power Pants I bet cost more
"Power is relatively cheap."
Most of the time it at true? How do you defind cheap?
For space missions power is everything
I wouldn't want a hard drive in my space ship.
So Why in sever they really want to save a few Ws?
I wouldn't want an SSD in it either.
SSDs are very susceptible to radiation.
You would want a paper tape
@Bob So HDD are better in space
@Andrew How about not using any consumer storage technologies?
4:59 AM
If you have 2 disks, and you planned on moving data around, you actually get better speed moving data From one seperated hardware drive To the other seperate hardware drive. Even when I Tie 2 disk together in raid0 for speed, if i then move data from one partition on that array, to another parittion on that array it is slower :-( so for many peoples purposes , seperate drives can be faster than raid 0
Actually, screw it. I'm not going to argue iwth you.
This is completely meaningless.
If you actually want advice, I've given it above. Many times.
If you want a discussion, go ahead. I won't be taking part anymore.
I just now read the "power in space" part
@Bob I am not trying to arguer
Andrew what's your native language?
5:00 AM
@Andrew We've gone from what RAID level to use, to SSDs vs HDDs in power consumption of all things, to usage in space travel.
Just let it go =p
That last one really feels like grasping at straws.
@Bob: Actually, I just realised this guy used to do the same on AU chat ;p
5:02 AM
@Bob I just wanted to know what journeyman Geek meant by "Power is relatively cheap."
So yeah, good idea
Does he mean it is cheap from the power plant bill to the radio to what he gets paid?
cheap meaning less than 5% of his paid check?
I don't get it
@JourneymanGeek what do you mean by it?
Why do they still make mSATA SSDs?
Has anyone heard anymore more about Dear Leader's internet?
Nope havn't heard about it
Or the lack of it? ;p
Naw, no one would have cared if not for the sony thing.
Well I knew they got it back some =p
Dear leaders internet is that like al gores internet?
people think Sony did this as a publicity stunt, or at least some do.. I just can't see that
IS it about the DPRK?
There's a theory its someone else, and its a prank in a prank.
PROBLEM is the prime suspect are the guys behind the PS hack, and I don't think sony's console wing and the studio are actually part of the same organisation structure outside being owned by sony
5:10 AM
the only way we'll find out is after the source code is completely analyzed, and even after that there's no guarantee
the malware spread throughout the network, though, just not at the main building - if those systems are interconnected at some point it's possible providing they have the same weaknesses
Is the PlayStation network online? I don't play
There was a hack sometime back on em
Ahh yeah
lizard squad
Forgot what they were called
Sony has been hacked ~50 times in past 15 years
Circular hype, the more it is on the news, the more newsworthy it becomes, the more it is on the web the more stories are made up about it, the more stories that are made up about it, the more there is to report, including how many of them are just stories ?
5:12 AM
I'm not sure if that's a lot though - they could be counting very minor breaches, and other companies may just not be reporting breaches
most of them are just stories most likely - we probably won't know for a while who actually did it, until the hype calms down
> even if it wasn't NK, and the US found out, they'd be hesitant to release that info because it would open a can of worms, wrongly accusing someone
also, merry Christmas to the east coast
the US is sort of Ok with that, if they were not already bombing someone elses families
@ekaj: Also, no one particularly cares for the norks
except maybe china
probably only because NK gets some internet from them =p
and probably a suprising amount of sentimentality.
5:17 AM
China's start to being a world power was the korean war, and they didn't lose that
it's going to be interesting seeing this pan out
There's a chance it'll just fizzle out
Don't forget, while less destructive, china's been doing a load of this sort of infiltration
yeah =p
The odd thing with this was how they went all oldschool haxxor
Ever looked at your webserver logs and seen the 122.225/16 address attempts?
5:18 AM
I think I read an article by Schneier earlier today talking about the oldschool attempt
reused code, servers, methods, etc
Oh, more how this is about ego
Modern hacking attempts tend to be criminal or industrial espionage related.
This started with a tagging, and a massive outage
even before demands were made
like the steel plant I just learned about today..
5:20 AM
That one is interesting.
Alas the report was in german.
isn't Symantec based in Europe somewhere?
Are they?
no.. that's California, way off
I thought they were merkins.
They have a European branch I believe, and offices all over the world
5:22 AM
If a big case pops up, like Stuxnet, they do analysis, and pass it on to the next time zone when their day is up
Kaspersky is in Russia
and I learned that MS Security Essentials is based off of something called RAV a guy built for fun, then he left and went to kaspersky
Assuming their research guys have normal hours
the folk who have the skills to analyse these things are rare
guys like that probably don't, their teams are very small and exclusive
- got that info from my book on Stuxnet
at least the RAV, tag teams, etc
hey I really enjoyed that book =p learned some interesting stuff
5:24 AM
when a book like that comes out about regin or sony I'll be sure to get it
I have a load of books in my to read list ><
I just bought 6-8 books a month ago, but I don't have time to read them now :/
did you hear about regin?
kinda surprised it wasn't covered widely
5:33 AM
It didn't have a clever name or a wide reach
Its probably some clever NSA thing ;p
probably =p
they're also probably being vague on purpose
Explain regin simply?
malware used for the gathering of information from targeted individuals / companies
@ekaj ahh
I'm fascinated with things like that but I don't understand them extremely well yet
well barely at all actually
5:45 AM
SU has a tendancy to be isolated from millions of malware and virus posts, somehow they are all concidered duplicates. (for linux users they pretty much are :-)
most of the cases are the same though =p
Works out good for me, because reading through them and looking at the logs (which any log already explodes my head) it isnt so much the few bad things they got on, but the Arrays of crap they have running non-stop on the computers that they probably dont even use.
@ekaj: and in most cases you need to wipe a compromised system eventually
I know =p I'm just talking about little things like browser toolbars
I don't mind wiping my computer, I do it every 6-8 months anyways just because I decide I want to try something different
I currently have incremental backups with 2 week's retention
5:52 AM
next time I wipe my computer (within the month) I'm going to start doing that
I'll probably get to run a simulated disaster test when I get a new SSD ;p
@ekaj: Want a product rec? ;p
for a backup drive?
for backup software
I'm currently running this
5:54 AM
ah yes, that just came out didn't it?
its in beta but really really nice
we are going to start using that at work, we've already talked about it =p
Work's a linux shop ;p
@Bob: B00m
our one guy already uses it to back up the esx boxes
5:55 AM
oh god. I think its crappier than mr infodump's system.
@JourneymanGeek I was more thinking... XP? P4? 1 GB RAM? Which pit did he dig that out of?
@JourneymanGeek Exactly!
Would be abuse but soooo tempted to post a "When is my computer beyond economic upgrade" community FAQ question.
Next question will be looking for an ISA card.
not so bad, its PCI only
That might actually be in the territory of "so old it's actually on-topic"
(under niche hardware)
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