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1:16 AM
@Scimonster As long as you don't try to close anything as not a real question.
@YEZ I removed your parenthetical question. feel free to re-ask it at the original post (or as a new post)
3 hours later…
4:18 AM
I'm always uncertain if bad answers should be voted for deletion. When they are wrong, but not necessarily invalid.
@YEZ I can't advise you on this until you clarify what the difference is between 'wrong' and 'invalid'.
2 hours later…
6:33 AM
@DoubleAA When reviewing LQ posts on SO, my criteria are leave 'wrong' answers - incorrect answers that deserve to be downvoted, but are actually an answer. An 'invalid' answer is one that is simply not an answer - comment, link-only, new question, etc.
7 hours later…
1:21 PM
@msh210 time for a calendar event for Sukkot
1:33 PM
There seems to be a standard model of wood sukka with 8x4 panels framed with what look like 1X2s or 1x3s, including horizontal members 1/3 and 2/3 up. You can see an example here. I've seen these in pictures from all over the place. Are these pre-fab or built from plans? Relevant to:
Q: Plans for an all-wood sukkah

Isaac MosesI am looking for full-blown, ready-made plans for a sukkah with wind-blocking wooden walls and frame elements. (I'm OK with metal hardware.) I have searched the Internet and have yet to find any. I have found, the Sukkah Project's kits with plans for sale, but those are intended for use with fabr...

1 hour later…
2:46 PM
@DoubleAA A wrong answer is one that is contradicted by Jewish sources. An invalid one is not an answer to the question. As far as I see it.
Right, I see @Scimonster basically made the same point.
3:24 PM
@IsaacMoses I suspect they're built from plans. It'd only be feasible to sell those locally, as shipping costs would be high. That's why the Sukkah Project, for example, sells the brackets and whatnot but tells you to go buy your own 2x4s.
BTW @IsaacMoses on yours, did you use plain plywood sheets for your walls or did you frame them somehow? (I'm guessing the former, given what you just asked here.) If it's plain plywood, be careful to store in a way that they won't warp -- flat is best if you have the space for it.
@MonicaCellio Well, there are large concentrations of Jews in e.g. Yerushalayim and New York where it's practical to sell locally.
@MonicaCellio The plywood is screwed permanently to a rectangular frame of 2x4s. Thanks for the tip about warping. I had plywood and 2x4s leaning against the walls of my basement during construction and experienced unfortunate warping over only a few days. I do plan to store my sections in a flat stack.
@IsaacMoses that's true!
@IsaacMoses the 2x4 frame should help a lot to prevent warping. We store the panels for that kitchen I mentioned vertically (they're framed) and haven't had problems with that. A flat stack is best if you have the room; if you decide to test leaning against a wall, test with just one of them in case it's a problem. :-)
4:04 PM
What do you guys think about a tag for ? Every "how should I build a sukkah" question would go under it, my most recent question would use it.....*and* it would be useful for categorizing questions that don't need as much book knowledge as practical knowledge.........
[ it feels like we should have a tag for that already, only I've never seen it..... ]
@Shokhet is similar in function and has an overlapping but different meaning.
... though it could apply to your plant question
@IsaacMoses Hmm.....but what about a request for a technique, rather than a "thing"?
@IsaacMoses Definitely true.....
@Shokhet Like I said, overlapping, but certainly not identical
@IsaacMoses I was two seconds away from doing that!!!! Thanks though :)
@Shokhet "Zerizim makdimim" :)
4:08 PM
@IsaacMoses :)
4:39 PM
Q: Medjool Dates (bugs?)

Dr.YSGWe have a 2 lbs box of medjool dates. Very fancy. But it has been on the shelf for about 2 months. At first, when we split it, no visible bugs. Now we are seeing small white spots near the seed, salt grain sized. Even with a good magnifying glass, I cannot discern if this is just sugar deposits ...

^^^ the actual question part isn't psak-oriented, but the whole context is.
@YEZ I flagged the first rev of the question as psak oriented; @IsaacMoses edited part of it to fix....see revision history for that question.
@Shokhet This is the same kind of issue that led me to this. Something which is clearly by context being asked as a personal question is OK if it avoids some magic words, while questions clearly not being asked as personal are off-limits because they use the taboo word "I" in the question.
@YEZ Hm....in this case, though, I think it's still pretty clear that the OP will act on the info brought here.....it just so happens that the Kof-K already ruled on this case......
4:55 PM
@Shokhet True, but I don't think that mitigates the issue AFAWAC (as far as we are concerned) (Yes, I did just make up an acronym, and then spell it out, using more characters than if I had left it out to begin with, followed by this parenthetical statement which is much longer than it would have been otherwise).
@YEZ But it means that TQINAP (this question is not a problem) (what's wrong with trailing parenthetical statements?)
@Shokhet I don't know if that's true. I.e. is everything on which the Kof-K has issued a psak now ok?
5:15 PM
@YEZ I support closing outright requests for pesak, especially from new users, and leaving them closed until the user comes back and edits, as a way of sending a strong signal. We have to be as overwhelmingly clear as possible about what we offer and what we don't, but the fact that someone came here asking for a pesak doesn't make the topic of their question off-limits.
@IsaacMoses I agree - I'm just suggesting that even after the actual "punch line" of the question has been de-personalized, the post as a whole (not the history, I mean as it is currently) still conveys the message of a personal case. I think the whole mention of his own personal story should be removed.
@YEZ I disagree. Motivation is important. That's what makes it clear that this is worth addressing, and not just someone randomly dreaming up a cockamamie "what if." ...
In this case, the question was not exactly asking for pesak - the question is "are these spots bugs?" which is a matter of metziut, and which a date farmer could help with as well as a rav hamachshir, so I thought it seemed unnecessary to hit it with the close hammer. However, since it was asking about his dates, which we don't have, we can't answer, and an answer would be relatively useless compared to an answer to "how can one distinguish?" So I edited.
@IsaacMoses OK - just pointing out it's at the expense of maintaining the "this is a personal question" feel of the question. I think it becomes a technicality at this point. It's no longer "officially" a psak question, even though we all know it is (even without the history).
@YEZ How do you know that the asker is going to rely on answers given here for practice?
@YEZ It means that we (practically speaking) aren't ruling.....is it a problem if you ask a "crowd of your friends" a halachic question, and they give you a Kof-K article?
5:25 PM
@IsaacMoses How do you know that they will when they say "I have a question. What should I do?" Maybe they will take the answer as if they asked a crowd of their friends.
@IsaacMoses If you make him wait a day, and the situation no longer exists, then you'd know.....like this question
I think the answer to your question and mine is the same.
@Shokhet That's helpful, but the existence of such articles isn't known a priori, unless the question is of the form "what literature addresses this?" but then, that's not asking for pesak anyway.
@IsaacMoses True.
@Shokhet A non-psak response should always be the response, but that doesn't make it not a request for psak.
5:28 PM
@YEZ @IsaacMoses A question like this -- why does the asker care about "practical advice"? .....clearly, he's looking to do it himself.....
Q: What do I need to know to properly kasher utensils in boiling water?

YEZIf someone wants to kasher their utensils using a pot of boiling water, what do they need to know to do it correctly? Among other issues, consider: Are there issues with how long items need to be in the water? How much water does there need to be? Can some items not be kashered this way?

@Shokhet I know for a fact that that asker is not looking to do it himself. That asker has sufficient knowledge to do it himself if he wants to. In fact, that asker did so just last night! That asker, while doing so, had the thought that it would be a nice resource to have a basic guide available, and as a service to a certain online community asked the question, without any mention of himself (except in the title).
@YEZ Sounds like you know the asker.....he a friend of your's? :P
@Shokhet casual acquaintance.
@YEZ If someone (especially a new user) asks "What should I do?" and gets an answer saying "This source says to do X," then there's good reason to fear that that person will do X on that answer's say-so. However, if someone asks "What should I do?" and gets prodded in various ways with the MY non-pesak rule, then gets an answer "This source says to do X," we know that they are at least aware that the answer was not given in the spirit of pesak. What they (or other readers) do with that ...
@IsaacMoses We could team up with the NSA.
@IsaacMoses I hear the point. I guess I am looking at the future new-user who sees the question, not the current new-user who asked it.
5:37 PM
@YEZ A comment that says "CYLOR" should take care of both, right?
@IsaacMoses "gets prodded in various ways with the MY non-pesak rule" while leaving a record should solve that.
@YEZ Well, I'd like to have our red disclaimer back on the side at all times, but we've got disclaimers in the tour and in the FAQ, as well as in the summary for .
@Shokhet Only if the record is obvious to people who read without digging.
@Shokhet most new-users probably never check a revision history.
@Shokhet I encourage leaving such comments any time it seems like they might be needded.
@IsaacMoses OK......if it's the first comment, or upvoted enough that it stays on top
@YEZ I was referring to comments
@Shokhet We don't have a way to enforce that.
5:39 PM
@IsaacMoses I'm for having it back. Any reason it isn't?
@IsaacMoses If a bunch of people do it, it should happen by itself.
@IsaacMoses or maybe for >1k rep
@YEZ SE is opposed. See:
Q: Wanted: A standard way for a site to have a prominent professional advice disclaimer

Isaac MosesI propose that there ought to be a way for the mods of a site to put up a prominent disclaimer that shows up on every page and makes it clear that the site does not offer professional services. For example, on mi.yodeya, the SE 1.0 site that was the starting point for Judaism.SE, the header of e...

... but feel free to keep bringing it up (no sarcasm)
@Shokhet It often does.
@YEZ You probably mean <1K, don't you?
@IsaacMoses I know, I've seen it.
@Shokhet My concern about a practical implementation tag is that it might make people think that psak is ok.
5:45 PM
@Shokhet affirmative.
@Scimonster The idea of that tag was not for psak -- it was for questions like judaism.stackexchange.com/q/44450/5323 and judaism.stackexchange.com/q/10597/5323
@Scimonster What if the tag name was howto?
@IsaacMoses That's a much better idea! I like that.
@Shokhet I understand, but I'm not sure others will.
... with an appropriate summary and wiki, and with usage policed to keep it to the right kinds of questions
5:47 PM
@Scimonster So we make sure that the tag wiki is clear, and make sure that it stays on (and only on) questions that it is relevant to
@Shokhet Jinx!
@IsaacMoses That's exactly what I just said!!
@IsaacMoses and again!
@Shokhet Double jinx!
Baruch shekivanti
That might eork. (Sorry, chat is terrible on mobilr)
@Scimonster Strike the top row a smidge further to the left. :)
5:49 PM
I don't know why autocorrect didn't catch them.
@Scimonster Have you tried the SE chat app for Android?
(If you're on Android)
.....haven't tried it yet, but planning on it.
@Scimonster Alright then, never mind.
Anyone here use(d) it? Does it work?
Q: Proposed new code of conduct for all Stack Exchange sites

LauraWe don't spend too much time talking about our code of conduct; the rules are few and fairly straightforward, and most people abide by them, most of the time. But some of these guidelines, while obvious to our core community, are often unknown to or misinterpreted by newcomers. One of the oldes...

I recall some past situations in which it may have been useful to point to a policy such as this one on the books.
@IsaacMoses Done. Thanks. Haven't done any others yet, though. (Hosha'na Raba, Sh'mini Atzeres, Simchas Tora, whatever there may be.)
5:59 PM
@msh210 Thanks
@IsaacMoses Italics for mentioning a word, not for stress. Just to clarify.
@msh210 Those could wait till chol hamoed, right?
@msh210 Oh, good. I was mortally offended until now.
@Scimonster That sounds a lot like mevazeh hamoadim!
(italics for Hebrew, not because I'm actually yelling at you :)
@IsaacMoses Timeliness, you know?
(I would go crazy trying to do italics on iPad!)
I think we need to make a "how to" tag. — Fred Mar 21 '13 at 0:59
6:10 PM
@DoubleAA Great minds...
@DoubleAA Ha! Duplicate question, duplicate meta-idea!
Note too these:
Q: Step-by-step Kashering: 'Iruy

Seth JWhat is the step by step method of Kashering for the method of 'Iruy? Assume I've never done it before, and I am taking a recently used, non-Kosher metal sink for Passover. (Maybe I'm in a hotel.) It needs to be made Kosher, Parve, and Pesachdik.

Q: Step-by-step Kashering: Libbun

Seth JWhat is the step by step process of Kashering for the method of Libbun? Assume I've never done it before, and I am taking a recently used, non-Kosher oven and stove, as well as a frying pan, for Passover. (Maybe I'm in a hotel.) It needs to be made Kosher, Parve, and Pesachdik.

Q: How to salt a chicken at home?

Double AAI'm Sara Gittel from the Shtetl and I just got back to my home with my freshly shechted chicken that I had brought to our local Shochet. I seem to have forgotten though how to salt it. Can please you explain to me what I should do? Thanks! In all seriousness, though, salting meat was something...

Q: How to salt a chicken at home?

Double AAI'm Sara Gittel from the Shtetl and I just got back to my home with my freshly shechted chicken that I had brought to our local Shochet. I seem to have forgotten though how to salt it. Can please you explain to me what I should do? Thanks! In all seriousness, though, salting meat was something...

@DoubleAA Beat me to it :(
@Shokhet I'd forget my own question??? :)
Q: What's a good technique for a not-so-strong person to do [Ashkenazi] Hagbaha?

Isaac MosesI've seen many people shy away when asked to do Hagbaha (‏הגבהה‏), thinking themselves too weak. I know for a fact that it doesn't take that much strength to do it correctly, so I'd love to see a writeup of proper technique. See also the Sefaradi version of this question.

@DoubleAA Not a kashering question.
6:12 PM
@DoubleAA There are a lot of questions like that.
@Scimonster Yes.
@IsaacMoses Glad you survived.
@DoubleAA Now that I got Fred's haskama, I think I might.....
@IsaacMoses Does howto need to be about kashering only?
Q: How to fold Esther's scroll

msh210The custom is to unroll the m'gila and fold it over, 'page' over 'page', before reading it in public on Purim, then to roll it up again before reciting the b'racha after the reading. Suppose there's no one at hand to help you hold it in place on a lectern or table while you read it. You will want...

@DoubleAA No, I'd just thought that that's what you were listing.
someone can look up my how to blow shofar at someone's home question while we're making a list.
6:14 PM
@DoubleAA, the kashering questions deserve to be cross-referenced
@msh210 Thanks. Me, too.
@IsaacMoses done
Tzt, y'all.
@msh210 TZT
Is "howto" really the best name for the tag?
Yay, computer
@DoubleAA I may yet suggest an answer to that one....
6:47 PM
@Scimonster You could take it to Mi Yodeya Meta
@Scimonster I think it is....what problem do you have with it? ....it's basically just for the site's how to questions, no?
@Shokhet IDK, i just thought it sounds a bit weird...
@Scimonster .....do you have a better suggestion?
(not sarcastic, really asking)
@Shokhet Not right now.
@Scimonster Hm....I see that today is the day for creating new tags from chat conversations, isn't it? :P [edit approved]
6:52 PM
@Shokhet :P
I was actually watching that suggestion to see how it's doing...
@Scimonster :)
7:16 PM
@Scimonster Congatulations :)
@Shokhet :)
2 hours later…
9:14 PM
Not sure this applies here, but worth following the discussion thread:
A: Proposed new code of conduct for all Stack Exchange sites

Affable GeekCould I suggest that for the religion sites (Biblical Hermeneutics.SE, Buddhism.SE, Christianity.SE, Islam.SE, Judaism.SE, and the like), this language is going to cause confusion or consternation: Be civil. Attacking or harassing individuals based on gender, sexual orientation, disability, g...

9:35 PM
@IsaacMoses thanks for pointing that out. I think here on Mi Yodeya we are already careful to do that, but not all of the religion sites manage to reach that level and it doesn't hurt to remind everybody.
10:17 PM
It seems to me that since there are both and tags, the is superfluous. Thoughts anyone?
10:30 PM
@GeminiMan It's useful for questions which apply to both or don't want to be specific.
10:47 PM
@GeminiMan I don't understand why you retagged this judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/34620/revisions
Q: Is [talmud-bavli] useful?

ScimonsterIs there anything about talmud-bavli that cannot be covered by talmud-gemara and/or the pertinent masechet tags? There are under 60 questions, many of which are already tagged under other Gemara tags. Note: I'm not asking about talmud-yerushalmi, as it is a different format than the Bavli, and ...

11:21 PM
@DoubleAA Because I am confused by these overlapping tags - :) Since the source was Bavli I thought the tag more appropriate.
11:45 PM
@GeminiMan Tags are always based on the question not the answers. For instance, you wouldn't tag
Q: What is the Only Parsha not Lained ever on Thursday?

SimchasTorahWhat is the Only Parsha not Lained ever on Thursday?

with .
It doesn't matter that the source ended up being the Bavli if the question didn't specify.
@DoubleAA Got it.

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