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7:00 PM
Capitalization of words as a question is a bit boring
@JonathonByrd are you referring to my question? I guess it could have been a meta question.
@JonathonByrd btw my answer to your question might sound stupid but I didn't write it just for fun, it's the answer that has helped me the most
@HedgeMage Very few Christians admit to consuming porn, maybe the two statistics balance each other out :)
lol @Benjol
@dancek you talking about the lust Q?
7:03 PM
@JonathonByrd yes
@JonathonByrd "...if we're going to talk about sodomy we're going to be up front about it?" <-- if only there were a pun badge
@HedgeMage ...[groan] I can't believe I didn't see that before... >.>
@dancek The problem that I see with your answer dancek is that it nullifies my personal responsibility.
@Benjol I know a lot of Christians who use porn... I'm not sure if any of them would admit it to other Christians though.
@HedgeMage There's less of a problem if at least one Christian has confessed already to a small group of brothers. I know because I've experienced this myself...
7:09 PM
@HedgeMage A friend recently said to me: out of any 10 men, 8 have a problem with porn, one is lying, and the last one probably goes to strip clubs instead :D
or something like that...
I must admit the line up of questions on christianity so far is a bit... dunno
@dancek Thanks, I think you're right. I re-wrote my answer and expanded it to cover that ground as well.
@Benjol haha
@Benjol are we running out of questions yet? I'm anxious to see with the public will ask.
@JonathonByrd, maybe I should answer your question, but his approach (to porn) was pretty radical: parental control on his computer kicks in at 10pm (his wife knows the password), he has accountability software which mails a friend with any surfing it deems 'suspect'. (cont)
7:15 PM
In addition to the lowered rep levels for privileges during beta, we also need increased voting quotas! 40 just doesn't cut it for the this one.
He sends a weekly accountability mail to his pastor (his choice) with some 'tough' questions... He calls it his 'toolkit'. I think the secret to 'escaping' is that you have to flee, not pray and wait for 'something' to happen
@Caleb I'm all for that!
@Benjol wow.. very cool, I should have that running all the time
@JonathonByrd Ever heard of XXXChurch?
@Caleb It was overkill for the atheists :)
@ElendiaStarman no
@Caleb We should all also get a rep bonus for beta :) say like 5k
starting to sound like a congressman now...
7:17 PM
@JonathonByrd Of course it was, there was nothing... Um. Nevermind.
@JonathonByrd It very well may be the "accountability software" that @Benjol is talking about. It basically just watches what websites you visit and records the suspicious ones. It then sends an email every so often (2 weeks with the free version) to one or two "accountability partners" with that record of sites you visited.
gotta go...
@Benjol Yeah, I never got that... while there are certainly things that my faith and moral code allows that yours don't, I'd never think of putting the responsibility on other people or on a tool to be the same as abstaining from those things that my code does require me to abstain from
@HedgeMage The bible talks about a mind governed by the flesh and one governed by the spirit. I'm thinking of just putting a governor on mine in general...
@ElendiaStarman Hahahah! screencast.com/t/BSQop12z Nothing like trading one addiction for another.
@JonathonByrd The real genious is I bet that provider is selling all your info to marketing companies, though that is beside the point... does "having someone/something else prevent you from doing X" really count as "doing the right thing" in Christianity?
7:21 PM
@JonathonByrd Lolololol...
I guess it depends on who that other person is...
@JonathonByrd How so?
@HedgeMage I would think that for some people, having such software would be almost like having a person in the room, looking over your shoulder.
@HedgeMage I'm just thinking that, the framework we're talking about, having somebody watch over you is what we all expect from God.
So if we're talking about having a friend watch out for us, it is much like having God do it.
@JonathonByrd I guess the way I see it is... (assuming for the sake of argument that buying porn is wrong)...
7:24 PM
yea... just assuming :)
@JonathonByrd Isn't not buying porn because God doesn't want you to fundamentally different than not buying porn solely because you don't have enough money in your pocket, or enough gas to get to an adult shop, or whatever other external restriction might happen to be there?
Hmm... what if that was God's way of helping you detoxify?
He says to resent the evil one and the evil one will flee
@JonathonByrd *resist. Important typo there... :P
@ElendiaStarman lol, I have a broken finger that's all casted to a stick, so my typing is a little more inaccurate than normal... I keep missing keys and hitting the wrong ones..
five fingers on one hand and four on the other makes things tricky
...but it's not THAT kind of typo... :P
Regardless, I understand.
7:28 PM
but I have no idea how I ended up with resent vs resist
I was thinking resist, does that count?
@JonathonByrd [chuckle] Yeah, that counts. That kind of typo has happened to me several times in the past where I'm typing something and I make an error in the second or third letter...and my fingers auto-complete it to something else. :P
Do you guys really think that you can believe in an old earth and still be a christian?
@JonathonByrd yes
@JonathonByrd It's pretty much the best option out there right now.
I don't personally, but I don't think that's core belief
7:31 PM
@ElendiaStarman And here I thought it was always my andriod phone changing my words...
wow, the chat just went live
@JonathonByrd At least it wasn't as bad as some of those auto-correct pictures... :P
@JonathonByrd I should think so -- one could assume that "one day" to God is not the same as "one day" to man, or than certain things are meant as metaphor because (theoretically) not everything in God's ability is capable of being expressed exactly in human language
re:old earth - you have to believe God created it, but not necessarily agree on how or how long He took :-)
No but seriously, you guys believe in an old earth?
isn't sure if the evil pagan's opinion counts, though ;P
7:32 PM
@JonathonByrd no, wait, young Earth
@JonathonByrd I do too. I was kinda undecided until about half a year ago, which was when I read The Language of God.
@HedgeMage it is curious to me that you've been one of the more active people here :-)
But old earth is like calling God a liar
@JonathonByrd metaphor and condescension
@CRoss It's curious to me, too.
7:35 PM
I knew the scientific evidence for the universe being...what is it now? ~13.75 billion years old and that the Bible pretty much said literal days.
@CRoss I think I just said that.
@JonathonByrd have you ever read Calvin's statements on condescension
@ElendiaStarman I have never seen a "this is not a metaphor" label anywhere in the Bible.
@CRoss no
@HedgeMage hopefully you spelled it right ;-)
7:36 PM
@JonathonByrd I believe God created the earth and that the age of the earth is irrelevant to that belief. As @HedgeMage said, one day to God may be different then one day to man.
young earth is not a metaphor
are you kidding me
that again is literally calling god a liar
Really? I thought Christ used parables all the time to explain stuff...
> For who is so devoid of intellect as not to understand that God, in so speaking, lisps with us as nurses are wont to do with little children? Such modes of expression, therefore, do not so much express what kind of a being God is, as accommodate the knowledge of him to our feebleness. In doing so, he must, of course, stoop far below his proper height.
@Jonathon: The issue of evolution also played a part. I knew of the multiple holes in evolutionary theory, but it still had great explanatory power, which was supportive for the theory.
- John Calvin (link)
7:37 PM
wonders if she should get some popcorn.
A: What is the specific meaning of "day" in Genesis 1?

dleyva3While it's true that the word for "day" denotes a word for a period of time that is usually used for a 24 hour period, that same word is translated "day" in the following verse and can only be interpreted to describe a literal 24 hour period. Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heave...

@HedgeMage You wouldn't happen to have M&M's to share would you?
@HedgeMage Totally. :P
@HedgeMage HedgeMeg are you female?
@Caleb I don't usually get M&Ms at the theater -- how do you feel about Snow Caps? They are my favorite.
@JonathonByrd Yep.
7:38 PM
@JonathonByrd She is female.
@HedgeMage That just changes everything :)
@JonathonByrd it's not calling God a liar. It's believing that God talked to us in ways we would understand when we weren't great at science.
@JonathonByrd LOL how so?
I'm joking
Posted by Robert Cartaino on June 21st, 2011

Stack Exchange is starting to look like a Ponzi scheme. You start by creating the world’s largest Q&A site for programming, from which you find and hire of the best programmers on the planet to work on expanding our network, so we can attract and hire from the best community of users, bar none.

That’s why it was quite the coup when Susan Stewart was looking for a new career path. You may know Susan as HedgeMage, moderator of the Parenting Stack Exchange:

Susan is now donning the title of Community Manager on our Stack Exchange team. Welcome, Susan! …

7:39 PM
@HedgeMage Honestly I just had to google 'Sno caps', but they look like a winner to me.
Oh your a mod too huh :)
shows you how much I know...
@JonathonByrd that's what the blue name means
oh you're a mod too then?
@JonathonByrd That's why I'm here -- the Community Team look after a site especially closely before they have their own moderators.
7:40 PM
@JonathonByrd Pro-Temp over on RPG.
not a paid super mod
@JonathonByrd I'm not the sort of person who wanders around some other religious group's site poking them with sticks for no reason.
@HedgeMage LOL.
I'm poking you with sticks for a very good reason!
@HedgeMage :-D thankfully we haven't had many of those
@JonathonByrd It explains the motherly attention, something Christianity.SE needs :)
7:42 PM
So how do I become a moderator?
some of the other ... belief centric betas have been real problematic
@Caleb Especially with multiple children squabbling... :P
@Caleb Aww, thank you. That is a very nice characterization :)
@JonathonByrd There will be a discussion quite soon.
@CRoss like which ones?
7:43 PM
Probably after this site goes public.
@JonathonByrd regular mods get voted on.
very cool, so the community gets to vote for its own mods?
To be a super mod ... well, you have to be super awesome.
@JonathonByrd yep.
Well...the discussion should start beforehand but the actual appointments will probably happen after the site going public.
@CRoss I think I already proved that.. {stretches} !
7:44 PM
@JonathonByrd shrugs I'm surprised they let me wear the diamond at all
@JonathonByrd First, after public beta, you get three pro-tem mods who are chosen from your users by the community team based mostly on monkeys throwing darts at goblin-weilded dart boards. Then, shortly after the site "graduates" from beta to a fully-fledged Stack Exchange site, you hold elections to elect moderators from your community.
@CRoss The goblins must have been having an off day ;)
@HedgeMage I thought the meta post had a lot to do with pro temp mods?
@HedgeMage Can this current community have any input?
@HedgeMage they are our goblins after all.
@CRoss lol
7:47 PM
@ElendiaStarman what do you mean?
@CRoss As in, is the community team going to choose the pro-tems entirely without any input from the community?
@ElendiaStarman you can delete you know
mouse over it, click the down arrow, then delete
@CRoss Sorry, reflex. :P
@CRoss We take the community's comments under advisement, but they aren't definitive for pro tems -- often the community advocates for users who either don't actually have enough free time to mod, who haven't been around long enough to really be invested in the site, or something like that...
@ElendiaStarman not hardly, there's usually a meta post where people volunteer, people comment and suggest
Q: Provisional Moderator Nominations

C. Ross Related: Moderator Pro Tem Announcement It is time for this community to contribute some names of members you would like to act as provisional Moderators. A handful of members will be appointed to this site at about 7 days into the public beta. They will fill the role of Moderators un...

7:49 PM
@CRoss Our experience is that because we pick pro tems within days of the public beta, the community don't always know one another terribly well, so we have to supplement that input with our experience watching many betas succeed and fail.
but as @HedgeMage says it's not binding
@CRoss Well, when should such a thread be created for Christianity.SE?
Your election is binding -- we assume that by the time the site graduates, the community has gotten to know the big players.
@ElendiaStarman after the end of public beta
yeah, but beta tends to be whoever is most vocal
not necessarily who would make a good mod.
@CRoss I meant for pro-tems.
7:50 PM
@CRoss I think you mean after the start of public beta
@ElendiaStarman I meant at the end of private beta
@CRoss lol
@CRoss Ah, now I see. :P
@HedgeMage Well congrats on your new position at SE.
Thanks :)
I'm loving it here.
7:53 PM
I was starting to wonder why I hadn't seen you post anything :)
@HedgeMage Here as in SE or our overly nice Christianity forum you built for us :)
@HedgeMage We'll convert you one day lol
@JonathonByrd I answered two questions (one specifically about how to explain something to non-believers, and one that touched on Italian literature I knew well) but i feel like I can't be authoritative on much of what is asked.
@HedgeMage That's awesome. I didn't think you were going to participate based off of your last comment about trolling religious forums
I'll participate if something jumps out at me, but it's not really fair to lecture Christians on how to be Christian (though if I see anything grossly hypocritical I'll have a hard time not jumping in).
Are you a professing Christian then, Hedge?
@JonathonByrd No, she's not. :P
7:57 PM
@JonathonByrd I am not Christian, though my parents tried to raise me that way.
@Jonathon: There was a looot of discussion about that yesterday or two days ago.
oh gotcha
well I willn't dig too deep then. nothing like having to recap for the newbi
geez... where's all the questions with 0 answers?
@JonathonByrd Just check out the transcript. Do a Ctrl+F search for Satanism and that should get you to the relevant part. The reason I say "Satanism" is that I'm pretty sure it hasn't been used elsewhere in this chat... :P
@ElendiaStarman haha
lol @ElendiaStarman
That's not to say that I'm a Satanist (I'm not) it just happened to come up.
yeah, but there are only 3 :P
@HedgeMage Indeed, but doing a search for "pagan" isn't as likely to help. :P
@ElendiaStarman probably
8:01 PM
@a_hardin Well...you asked "where" they are... :P
@JonathonByrd As also came up, my path doesn't have any rules about god/gods, so my differences with Christianity are more social in nature than my not liking Jesus or something, as someone suggested.
@HedgeMage At least you're not bias or dogmatic about atheists beliefs. I think it would be a tad difficult to have a moderator with such beliefs
...[chuckle] I guess this is a dubious honor... :P
@JonathonByrd I'm not atheist. I said that my tradition doesn't say anything either way on the subject of god/gods/worship. If I wanted to worship Jesus I could, though I could not conform to all Christian social requirements (our path strictly forbids proselytizing, even to one's own children, for example).
lol @ElendiaStarman
@JonathonByrd My take on God is mostly: Everyone seems to think they alone know the nature and will of God/Gods, there's no way of telling who's right, however.
@HedgeMage I can definitely see that. But I don't see it as not being able to know gods will, instead it's more like, people refuse to want to conform to his will, thus denying it instead.
8:11 PM
@JonathonByrd If God would like to ask/tell me to do something, He's welcome to. I'm not going to take anyone else's word for it. "Because God said so" has been the excuse behind countless atrocities.
@HedgeMage Very true, it has. But even if God asked you to do something you wouldn't do it. That's the problem with man kind and that's what the Bible testifies to.
@JonathonByrd What makes you think I wouldn't?
@HedgeMage Because he has told you to do something and you're not doing it :) Again, that is the core problem behind every persons own understanding of the Bible. When God commands something people ignore it. Thus everybodies understandings are based more off of their person then off of the Bible.
@HedgeMage Please take no offense to this, I'm just stating a point.
Q: Pro Tem Moderator nominations

CalebAccording to this note and some comments on chat starting here, one thing we can do as a community is suggest some names for possible Pro Tem moderators during the beta phase (before real elections are held when the site goes live). To that effect I am launching this thread. Keep in mind that sug...

@JonathonByrd I have a box in my basement of about two dozen holy books from various cultures. They all contradict one another (some even contradict themselves), and there is absolutely no way to ascertain which, if any, is right.
@JonathonByrd When I talk to my son, I don't put 24 different instructions on cards and expect him to pick the right one: I tell him what I would like him to do.
8:22 PM
@HedgeMage I see where you are coming from, I don't want to try and push you in a certain direction.
@HedgeMage Agreed.
@JonathonByrd If I feel like you are being pushy, I'll say so, but I'm fine with discussion/debate.
@HedgeMage Couldn't be that these 23 other different instructions are attempts by Satan to draw people away? Assuming of course, that there is an evil power working against God, which Christians do believe.
@HedgeMage During our entire existence, everything that God has done He has given to us as evidence of His existence.
@ElendiaStarman They could very well be, but it is beyond me to know the difference.
@ElendiaStarman Which is precisely my point.
@HedgeMage Okay. My point was that God certainly could have told us what he wanted us to do; there's just interference.
8:24 PM
@HedgeMage That evidence is tied to one very important attribute of God. The fact that He IS the Truth. He cannot and does not lie. Everything that he has ever done can be verified.
@HedgeMage what I'm getting at, is that you can test to see what is from God by testing to see what is True and what is false. simply by putting it to the "test".
@JonathonByrd And what do you propose is this "test"?
@JonathonByrd There's no way for me to verify, for example, the creation story in Genesis. I could be true, or it could not, but I won't know during my life.
For example, the bible has been put to the test over the thousands of years that it has existed. It has definitely had its scoffers and critiques as anything would. But in the end, nearly every archeologist out there uses or has used the Bible to locate cities.
@JonathonByrd And most of those other holy books have some parts that are verifiably true, too.
The best lies always start with the truth ;)
@HedgeMage Someday (not now, say at least 6 months from now) I want you to write a blog post describing what it was like -- the back story on how you were assigned this particular beta and what it felt like trying to nurture a site into existence for a bunch of Christians to work out their questions -- and anything you learned along the way, good or bad. Deal?
8:28 PM
@JonathonByrd I understand. It's just that there's no silver bullet, and mostly the good advice that you can get is something that you already had thought of by yourself. (replying to your answer on personal responsibility a while ago)_
@Caleb I'd love to, if you will commit to reminding me.
@JonathonByrd I'm not saying it's not true, only that I cannot prove it one way or another.
@HedgeMage Well you don't have to start with the big things either, just start small.
@HedgeMage: Ever heard of the books that Lee Strobel has written? The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for Easter, and The Case for a Creator?
(I think there may be one or two more.)
Nope, never heard of them.
@HedgeMage do you believe that there is a God, or could be a God?
8:31 PM
@HedgeMage Oh. Well, in reference to what @Jonathon said, these books are good starting places for exploring the Christian faith.
@JonathonByrd I believe that there may be one or more gods, or there may not.
Oh, by the way, @Caleb: Do you mind if I steal your format for nominations? :P
@HedgeMage So it's at least a possibility
@HedgeMage are you into science, and if so, how much?
I do believe that if I don't change clothes soon, I will be late for an engagement, though, so I must bid you all goodbye for now.
@JonathonByrd Yes.
8:32 PM
Seeya @HedgeMage!
@dancek I believe that the scientific method is useful, if that's what you mean. I don't believe that science is always conducted in a way that produces truth, and I read with skepticism.
@HedgeMage Later! We love you either way :)
thanks :)
See you guys later!
@ElendiaStarman Not at all. In fact I was kind of hoping to set a precedent.
@HedgeMage If I send myself an email about it now, it might get the limelight in my email box about 6 months from now. I'll try :)
@Caleb Okay, cool. :)
8:39 PM
k peeps I'm out. It's to the water slides with the Family. ttyTonight!
@JonathonByrd Hah, very nice! Seeya!
@JonathonByrd Have fun with the family.
My family (wife + 4 kids) is all out of town. I am going crazy without them.
1 hour later…
9:55 PM
By the way, @HedgeMage, @Borror0, it seems that if you hit 30 votes on answers, you can't vote on questions anymore. The FAQ says that at least 10 must be on questions.
10:14 PM
@ElendiaStarman Vote on questions early and often and you won't hit that limitation (implementation bug).
@Caleb Yeah, now that I've figured out the issue, I'll probably get Vox Populi pretty often from here on... :P
@ElendiaStarman I think it's a one time badge. Up next are Civic Duty and Electorate.
@Caleb I second that.
@Caleb Hmmm...I think it's a re-givable badge. In any case, I'll find out tomorrow. :P
@Caleb Yes, we totally need a higher cap. Probably 60 votes.
Hmmm...meta thread time?
@ElendiaStarman I thought about it but decided there would be some significant problems with it as well and probably wouldn't go anywhere so I let it go. That doesn't mean I'll stop whining about it here tho :)
@Caleb Lol. It's still a good idea... >.>
Well, I'm heading out. Be back later!
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