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4:00 AM
They do do some things better than android.
But seriously, look back at all the ios feature lists over the years. the past 3-4 years all the killer features debuted in android.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 huh. I really liked the 10's size.
 
apple did get to 64-bit computing first, but that's more of a marketing gimmick right now.
 
hey now. Android did its fair share of copying apple. like existing in the first place.
 
@GeorgePompidou yeah I have a 10" tablet and I like it. wish it were lighter though.
 
I have the 7" iPad now, it's fine. waiting for a higher res one.
 
4:01 AM
@GeorgePompidou well, Android wasn't a copy of apple from the start. It was created before ios was released.
 
@GeorgePompidou Haha nonsense.
 
nexus's res kills retina ipad
eh, most of its beginning features were straight from apple.
 
Nope.
 
hugs his macbook pro and iPhone
 
But yeah, they copy features from each other, when appropriate, but really lots of the biggest features on ios lately have come from android. Android is leading the way (for) now.
 
4:02 AM
Absolutely.
 
it's true.
Cerberus, cool it. I'm agreeing with most things he's saying.
^.^
it's my personal preference to use Apple products.
 
@GeorgePompidou Most of the early features were just obviously what you'd put on a touchscreen phone-sized OS.
 
But Apple users like to throw twice the money at stuff for no good reason. Let them do so; they do not bother us. Except that they arm patent trolls.
 
I prefer banana to apple.
 
@Cerberus I do it for a reason which I think is good.
at least on the computer side.
I have a macbook pro because it supports more stuff than a thinkpad with linux, which I would love too.
but I just need commercial apps that aren't on linux.
 
4:04 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, exactly. Other mobiles OSes also had many of those things. It is true that Apple implemented and integrating those existing features very well in their first Iphone, though.
 
🍌@JasperLoy
 
I admit that the latest iphone's fingerprint scanner thingy is nice. Better than any android so far. However I'm not convinced that it's an important feature.
 
well, they're making it more important in the new iphone
 
@Cerberus their first ihpone, though, didn't even have third-party apps.
 
which will have more encryption/security features.
 
4:04 AM
@GeorgePompidou I don't think so but suum cuique.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I know: it sucked in other ways.
 
I told you my reason. that's all I need to provide
 
Like multi-tasking, copy-paste...my Windows Mobile phone had all of that already.
 
hahaha
please, let's not get windows into this discussion
pleeeasseee
 
@GeorgePompidou well, he's right though.
I can't understand why it took so long for ios to have copy/paste
or proper multi-tasking and task-switching
 
@Cerberus I like Windows and Office from Microsoft, yay!
 
4:06 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because it was aiming at very simple users?
 
which is one of the things I dislike about iphone. on android, task-switching is so easy.
 
@JasperLoy Well, they're all right, but I don't like them so much as I need them.
 
@Cerberus very simple users just won't bother copying/pasting.
 
nope. no Windows. I'm sorry. Windows isn't a serious operating system. you cannot talk about bad things about Apple without implicating Windows. Windows is crap, always has been, always will be, they're nonstandard, they don't work like any other OS, and are ridiculous.
 
having the feature wouldn't hurt the real users
 
4:07 AM
@Cerberus After using Linux for 4 years, I think Linux sucks.
 
I am out if people will start talking about Windows.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, Apple has caught up in IOS 7 with task switching, hasn't it?
 
@GeorgePompidou lol. As if iOS or Android are "standard"
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, exactly. Nor with multi-tasking or widgets or intents. They are...simple. They want to tap on a web page and that's it.
 
I'm comparing Windows to every other personal computer operating system in the world.
 
4:08 AM
@Cerberus Well, I don't know. Can you just switch tasks with one key like on android?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is true, but it may not be worth it if you are aiming low.
@JasperLoy It depends on what you use it for...
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm I forgot.
Maybe you need to long press the home button?
 
@GeorgePompidou Having done a fair bit of computer engineering work, I can assure you that Windows, since v95, is just fine and trying to compare it to Mac is probably not going to really win Apple any points.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 also, if I'm not mistaken, Android is based on linux, and iOS is based on FreeBSD
so already some points there
over windows
nope. sorry.
Windows is not a serious operating system.
you are wrong.
 
@GeorgePompidou Well, Android is based on linux, but it is essentially so different from linux that calling it linux is only relevant from the kernel's perspective.
 
No offence, but you're being a bit hysterical.
 
4:10 AM
@GeorgePompidou it's, uh, pretty serious. Maybe you're too young to recall the farce that was Mac OS before OS X.
 
in any case, you can SSH into both of them. you cannot SSH into Windows
things like that are so basic
I cannot understand what Windows people are thinking
 
The first time I used the internet was in college, lol.
 
@GeorgePompidou you can ssh into an iphone?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am, you're right. I'm talking OS X when I say mac.
yes you can!
you may need to jailbreak. but the point is it has sshd on it.
the point is it has core unix utilities
 
@GeorgePompidou heh. jailbreak.
 
4:12 AM
which windows doesn't even have a freaking cli shell!
 
If jailbreaking the iphone is on the table, why isn't installing an ssh daemon on windows on the table?
 
and don't even get me started on the registry, configuration, server stuff
jesus
 
But people use SSH tunneling all the time into Windows computers? I don't understand.
 
@GeorgePompidou of course it does, it ships with two, and you can install others.
 
nope, not getting started.
goes to brush teeth
 
4:13 AM
@GeorgePompidou wait!
I have an ihpone in front of me
I need to know how to get back from the calculator to the browser!
 
Hahaha.
Long press the home button?
Double press?
 
long-press brings up voice control
 
I have difficulty navigating my Sony Xperia too.
 
ah, double-press
how is anyone supposed to discover that
 
@JasperLoy You have an Android phone!! Congratulations! You just need to get used to that.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, to be fair, that is easy enough to learn.
 
4:15 AM
@Cerberus It's better now that I have used it for a year or so.
 
For a year? I had no idea.
 
@Cerberus it's easy to remember. but how do you learn it?
 
I don't know, because there is a bubble telling you to try it, when you first boot your phone?
I've never really used Apple stuff, I don't know.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Probably just rtfm.
 
@JasperLoy things don't come with fms these days
 
4:18 AM
really? you're going to call out iPhone because you don't know how to use it?
you have to learn to use everything man
anything new you have to learn it
how do you discover it? you look it up
on like google
 
You can ask on SE, lol.
 
I can use Android pretty effectively.
also, learning curve is good for all apple products. they're catered to retards.
 
@GeorgePompidou on Android, there is a task-switching button right there, on the UI. You discover it by seeing it, then experimenting.
 
amazing.
that does it.
 
Nobody double-clicks everything or double-presses everything at random
 
4:19 AM
throws iphone out window
 
just to see if that maybe does something.
 
@GeorgePompidou Haha I won't disagree with you there.
 
goes and buys android
 
@Cerberus How much does butter cost you?
 
:17140460
 
4:20 AM
you got me Mr. Shiny.
 
double-clicking is bad UX. It's not discoverable.
 
George is getting hysterical.
 
totally sold because of a task switching button
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 who cares? everyone who knows how to use an iPhone is fine with it and everyone who doesn't can learn it in a second.
 
@tchrist Hmm let me look it up. We were once going to compare food prices between various countries in the Cooking room, it was pretty exciting.
 
that's a non issue
it's a literal non issue.
 
4:21 AM
@GeorgePompidou assuming they even suspect it's possible.
If I didn't use android, would I even know that there might be some hidden UI of all the running apps?
 
It's only because I was missing a feature that I rely on on Android that I even thought to ask about this.
 
So € 4,20/kg.
 
That’s awfully difficult to convert.
It’s $5/# here.
 
you're making a silly point man. I agree with most of what you've been saying, or at least been taking it seriously this whole time, until now.
 
4:22 AM
I don’t know the exchange rate.
 
double clicking is bad UX? who gives a shit
it's fine
 
But I bet that looks cheaper.
 
nobody complains about it, or they'd have changed it.
 
@GeorgePompidou actually, there is science to back that up
 
I'm fine with it, everyone I know is fine with it
 
4:22 AM
double-clicking is only "fine" for users with training
 
(by the way, 8/10 people I know well enough to text have an iPhone)
(which makes the iPhone experience better because iMessage kills sms)
 
@tchrist If you factor in exchange rate and taxes, prices between dollars and euros are probably not far off.
 
checks
 
for people without training, the very notion that you can double-click is not there.
 
1 dollar is worth about 70 eurocents, I think.
 
4:23 AM
And this is double-pressing a button.
 
yeah, but it's 2014. who has no technology training?
 
Can you think of any other physical buttons in the world that do something magic on double-press?
 
Hmm but we have low taxes on food, probably only 6%.
 
people who are about to die, that's who
 
So you will have to add something to the amount in euros.
 
4:24 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah, every mouse in the world
 
doorbells? phone keypads? calculators? the buttons on your remote control for your tv?
 
All prices include taxes.
 
and trackpads
 
I think you pay half what I do on butter.
We’re $5 per pound.
You’re $2.55 per pound.
 
@GeorgePompidou 1. That's different, and 2. There are usability studies that prove that double-clciking, even with mice, is not easy for users to get.
 
4:24 AM
@GeorgePompidou Everyone here uses Whatsapp and Telegram, which kill Imessage or SMS.
 
Example: when was the last time you double-clicked on any web page? for any reason?
 
Why is your dairy consistently half our price?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 studies are one thing. the fact that literally nobody gives a shit and is fine with iPhone app switching, that's a different thing. and much much more relevant.
 
@tchrist Yes, that would make sense.
 
@Cerberus do you have those things on your computer and your tablet, and they are constantly in sync?
with your phone
 
4:26 AM
Well, if milk is twice as expensive here, one would figure that so too would butter be.
I’m afraid to consider ice cream. :)
How about eggs?
 
@GeorgePompidou I wonder how many iphone users even know about the feature. And of those that do, how many discovered it by accident vs were told by someone else.
 
@tchrist Well, we produce a lot of diary, and Holland has comparatively low food prices because we have a lot of competition, I think, or for some other reason. But people have told me food is relatively more expensive in America than in Europe, whereas eating out is cheaper in America.
 
How much do you pay for a pound of eggs?
 
@GeorgePompidou For Telegram, yes.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 this is irrelevant, and their problem
 
4:27 AM
@tchrist Umm I pay about € 1,30 for ten eggs.
 
TEN!?!?
 
@GeorgePompidou No, it's relevant. It's my whole point.
 
Medium-sized.
 
That’s nuts.
 
okay then, you win
 
4:27 AM
I have never heard of ten eggs before.
 
Android has a multitasking button and iPhone you have to double click.
 
@tchrist metric eggs.
 
You can get them cheaper elsewhere, but not in my supermarket.
 
Eggs here are sold in dozens, including half- and sesqui-.
 
I myself do not give a rat's ass. and I like the iPhone system more because I don't have an extra button. and many people agree with me.
but otherwise, you're right. sure.
 
4:28 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Bugger me.
I could never have imagined it.
 
I have two boxes of eggs here, of different brands, ten eggs each. But we also have boxes of 6, and large boxes, as in maybe 20 or so.
 
Eggs start at about 20 cents apiece.
So like $2.50/dozen.
 
I've always been surprised that eggs are cheaper at Whole Foods than at Trader Joe's
I wonder why.
 
@GeorgePompidou Many, but few. Apple has a small and shrinking market share...
 
@GeorgePompidou See, here's the funny thing. On android, you can task-switch easily because the buttons are software, and so it was easy for Google to add a task switcher when they realized that nobody used the old one because it was undiscoverable (you had to long-press home... much like Apple's current implementation). iPhone has only one button, though, so Apple can't just add new buttons. Instead they have to add new secret gestures to the one existing button.
 
4:30 AM
But you can pay a lot more than that for organic, field-raised, etc etc.
 
@Cerberus definitely not small or shrinking.
please cite your source.
 
@GeorgePompidou well, android outsells apple consistently now for all new devices.
 
yeah, but Apple users aren't going anywhere.
 
If you let the hens wander about freely and do not feed them antibiotics nor food that has been treated with antibiotics or pesticides, then the price can be more than twice that.
 
@tchrist Yes, absolutely, same here.
 
4:31 AM
Stuks must be pieces.
 
stücke
 
@GeorgePompidou Tiny and shrinking market share.
@GeorgePompidou Ding!
 
@GeorgePompidou well, actually, they are going to Android. I know several people who have.
 
and I know several who have gone to iPhone. people we know don't really matter.
 
@GeorgePompidou Hence my statement.
 
4:32 AM
and in any case… what do you want me to say? in my personal opinion they are going to the worse platform.
at the end of the day, I still like Apple products more
and am happy with them!
 
@GeorgePompidou No, but the market share in terms of actual phones sold speaks for itself.
 
Android is fine.
I just don't like it as much.
 
@GeorgePompidou Yes. In your personal opinion.
 
yes. that is why I bold and italicized it
 
4:33 AM
But you started out with "everyone knows that the apple UX is superior".
 
I maintain that is true.
 
That's just not true.
 
for the metaphorical/hyperbole everyone
 
It's only true for apple fans.
 
obviously babies and old people do not know much
 
4:34 AM
You’re paying 17¢ per egg. Mine are 20–30¢ per egg, not counting the fancy ones.
 
and people in Africa
 
@Cerberus Rodents are attacking.
 
anyway, it's about time I get to bed.
 
@GeorgePompidou people in africa are buying a lot of phones, but not a lot of iphones.
 
was nice talking about all of this. none of us have gotten anywhere from where we started, but still decent.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah, not any smartphones either.
 
4:35 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Doesn’t Microsoft still think double-clicking is a good idea?
 
@tchrist Rodent robots!
 
They also discard pending events. It is evil. And they tell you the dev to do this.
 
@GeorgePompidou No, they are buying smartphones.
 
No typeahead, no clickahead. Wait, wait, wait.
 
nah. not from what I heard today on NPR.
they are buying standard phones with no web browser.
 
4:36 AM
@tchrist Right, I don't know all the reasons either.
 
@tchrist I'm not sure what you mean? The windows desktop still uses double-click to activate files, but their UX guidelines suggest not to use double-click, or at least, not to rely on it.
 
@Cerberus microsoft is laughable. apple is rock steady.
 
I do generally buy Large eggs, not Medium nor Extra Large nor Jumbo.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, that part. The clickahead is that when it is doing things, it won’t remember that you have clicked. When it comes back, it flushed events. Or so I read.
But I don’t think they sell size Small eggs, so this may not be equatable.
 
@tchrist I don't know about that. if you mean, "can you type into an unresponsive program", then no, you probably can't, but a program is only unresponsive because it cannot process messages such as keystrokes, so........
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Imagine not having a typeahead buffer. Really weird.
 
4:39 AM
@GeorgePompidou Nope, slowly eroding over the past year or two, if you don't look at seasonal variance.
@tchrist Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen small eggs.
 
good night all! I shall speak with you tomorrow, not about iPhones and Androids, because I like iPhones for now and think Androids are okay (and this is settled)! and definitely not about mac/linux/everything else vs. windows because that is not a real discussion!
 
At least you think Androids are okay!
 
@tchrist I'm not sure what you mean. I don't know that I usually encounter a scenario where my keystrokes are lost.
 
buzzes
Bye!
 
4:41 AM
@Cerberus of course I do. I never said otherwise. it's a great platform, and I've used it a lot in the past.
 
@GeorgePompidou yeah! iphones are okay! just not objectively better than android!
 
of course not!
night!
 
and their screens are small!
 
not for long.
 
and their task-switcher is hard to discover!
and the home screen is just icons!
 
4:41 AM
This is rather confusing.
A medium egg is a different size in the States vs Canada vs the EU.
 
@GeorgePompidou Yay!
That's 33 cents/egg.
It doesn't get any more expensive in my supermarket.
 
@Cerberus Is that a fancy egg?
 
Yes.
So fancy that I don't even know what it means.
And so few → few=expensive.
 
I can’t read its size/grade.
CA Large is 56–62, EU Large is 63–73, US Large is 51–57.
 
4:46 AM
Still see no size grade, but maybe I am looking wrong.
I do see that they are brown.
The brown thing is funny.
There is utterly no difference nutritionally.
 
Most eggs are brown here.
 
But people convince themselves that they are “better”.
 
I have no idea about the size, probably "medium"?
I wonder about the "2", though.
I think 2 is the lowest grade, chicken-friendliness-wise.
 
Oh right.
 
I have 2 at home (cheapest) and 1 (medium-priced).
 
4:48 AM
Ok, we have another scheme, like Grade A and Grade AA.
 
Hmm.
 
The grade AA are the freshest.
 
The letter is in the stamp on the egg.
It's not about freshness, but about living conditions.
 
> The US Department of Agriculture grades eggs by the interior quality of the egg (see Haugh unit) and the appearance and condition of the egg shell. Eggs of any quality grade may differ in weight (size).
U.S. Grade AA
Eggs have whites that are thick and firm; yolks that are high, round, and practically free from defects; and clean, unbroken shells.
Grade AA and Grade A eggs are best for frying and poaching, where appearance is important.
U.S. Grade A
Eggs have characteristics of Grade AA eggs except the whites are "reasonably" firm.
 
Een eicode is een code die sinds begin 2001 op elk ei staat dat in Europa is geproduceerd. Aan de code kan worden gezien uit welk land het ei komt, en uit welke houderijsysteem het ei afkomstig is. Controleurs kunnen aan de hand van deze code het bedrijf en de stal herleiden van de leghen die het ei heeft gelegd. == Code == De code ziet er als volgt uit X-XX-XXXXXXX (elke X staat voor een cijfer of letter). === Huisvestingssysteem === Het eerste cijfer van de code staat voor het houderijsysteem waarin de hen is gehuisvest. 0: biologisch ei 1: vrije uitloop ei 2: scharrelei 3: kooi-ei ...
Code 3 no longer exists, it is illegal.
 
4:50 AM
We also have the farming method stuff, but I believe that this may not be completely standardized.
 
0 is best, 2 is worst.
 
We have three grades then: AA, A, B.
 
Hmm.
 
But that is not farming method, etc.
Nor size.
Size is the peewee/small/medium/large/extra-large/jumbo, with the bottom two not sold in stores.
> In North America, legislation requires eggs to be washed and refrigerated before being sold to cusumers. This is to remove natural farm contaminants present in the cleanest farms and to prevent the growth of bacteria. In Europe legislation requires the opposite. Washing removes the natural protective cuticle on the egg and refrigeration causes condensation which may promote bacteria growth.
Gosh!
> In the United States, increased public concern for animal welfare has pushed various egg producers to promote eggs under a variety of standards. The most widespread standard in use is determined by United Egg Producers through their voluntary program of certification.[83] The United Egg Producers program includes guidelines regarding housing, food, water, air, living space, beak trimming, molting, handling, and transportation, however, opponents such as The Humane Society have alleged UEP Certification is misleading and allows a significant amount of unchecked animal cruelty.[84] Other st
 
Hmm we don't have those grey ones.
But, hey, it's bed time.
 
4:54 AM
How can you choose zero for best! @Cerb
 
@skullpatrol No idea! It is a bit confusing.
@tchrist Bluish grey!
 
> Research conducted in France in the 1970s demonstrated blue chicken eggs (as laid by certain breeds, including araucanas,[74] heritage skyline, and cream legbar) can be stronger and more resilient to breakage, yet an article in New Scientist magazine (contemporary with that research) stated there was little to no demand for blue-colored eggs from housewives, despite the clear advantages.
> Research at Nihon University, Japan in 1990 revealed a number of different issues were important to Japanese housewives when deciding which eggs to buy; however, color was a distinct factor, with most Japanese housewives preferring the white color.
That’s odd.
Here brown eggs are considered “more desirable”.
 
Sleep well @Cerberus
 
I wonder why in Japan they want the white ones.
 
4:56 AM
Good night!
Funny colours.
 
@tchrist I think people really don't care about colour here. Brown or white, it's all the same.
 
I think there are French chickens that make the dark browns.
And speckleds.
 
It is true, though, that the very cheapest eggs in my supermarket happen to be white. I think most others are brown.
 
> It turns out that all eggshells actually start out white. No matter what the breed or what color the egg ultimately ends up being, all eggshells are white when they start their journey down the oviduct.
 
4:58 AM
We have speckled brown sometimes! Subtle speckles.
 
> This journey takes about 26 hours, the shell taking roughly 20 hours to be completed. In the last 4-6 hours of the laying process brown eggs 'turn' brown.
 
So it's poo?
Lovely.
 
I had no idea!
> A hen spending too much time in the sunlight can actually have a bleaching effect on the color egg that a hen lays, as can not having access to cool water. So shade and cold water is important to maintain eggshell color as well as overall chicken health. Other things like the presence of mites or disease can also result in paler than normal eggshells. As an egg travels through the dye process, it rotates. If it rotates too slowly, the egg will be speckled.
 
But the brown is so even!
 
I do not know that it is faecal dye.
This is the first time I’ve ever heard of this.
 
4:59 AM
Yeah.
But bai!
poof
 
See ya.
> Although all eggs start out with white shells, the blue or brown dye (or both) applied to the shells of some breeds results in eggs that come in almost all the hues of the rainbow.
 

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