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12:02 AM
@DavidCarlisle I found it! I was using This code in my common latex file: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/123716/… "How to add vertical lines (rules) to the left of first column and right of last column using multicol package" which caused no problems in 2013 pdflatex. Now, it has clash with multicol 2014. So, I removed this code from my common latex include file, and now pdflatex compiles ok!
5 hours later…
4:41 AM
is there a mathbb 1 that looks nice beside amsfonts' mathbb?
2 hours later…
@HeikoOberdiek That was quick
1 hour later…
8:16 AM
@Nasser that's what Stefan said here:-) :
10 hours ago, by Stefan Kottwitz
@Nasser at least I saw \page@sofar with that "undefined" command here:
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez define nice:-) from memory stix, bbold, ...
8:52 AM
Wow, I'm currently looking at a funny "discontinuity" effect of page references. In a document with a lot of page references, which I have been re-compiling continuously, an error which cleared the aux file just reduced the number of pages in the document by 300 just because one item which used to be on page 103 is now on page 99, hence the page reference takes up one less digit. Talk about butterfly effect :-)
@StephanLehmke Wow!
I've been scrutinizing about 1000 pages looking frantically for the missing content ;-)
@JosephWright: Ack?
@PauloCereda Hello
@JosephWright I'm working on l3build right now. :) I finally finished my stuff. :)
9:05 AM
@PauloCereda Cool
9:15 AM
@PauloCereda oh no, now it'll never work
@DavidCarlisle You are welcome. :)
@DavidCarlisle, @PauloCereda Used l3build yesterday for the urgent fix to lualatex-math (the Makefile is a bit odd)
@JosephWright speaking of l3build I really ought to use it to get those inputenc tests into a reasonable shape to show Elie Roux (cf latex-l discussion)
@JosephWright oh no, now it'll never work
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle I'll have some thoughts on the team list later
@Joseph: quick Skype poking? :)
9:24 AM
@PauloCereda Sorry, not today: at a meeting
@PauloCereda At least not until I get home
@JosephWright Ah don't worry. :) Mind if I'm changing some comments as well?
@PauloCereda Go for it
@JosephWright: ^^ reading code, adding comments and generating documentation. :)
@PauloCereda I guess you'll have to send me a diff or a GitHub fork for comments?
@JosephWright No idea, but let's wait for me to finish (if I ever finish). :)
9:47 AM
sometimes I wonder what would Latex look like it is was written in Fortran. Just a thought.
@PauloCereda kpfonts?
@Nasser Huh? Lisp is the usual comparison
@JosephWright lisp is functional thingy. Fortran is procedural. Is Tex considered functional or procedural language? how would it be classified? I know it is not OO
@Nasser TeX is a macro expansion thingy. :)
@Nasser tex is written in pascal, tex written in fortran wouldn't be very different I expect
9:50 AM
@egreg ooh math included too? :)
@PauloCereda Yes.
@egreg Grazie! :)
@Nasser tex.web uses hardly any datatypes other than integer (a tiny bit of floating point arithmetic but all made inaccessible so that difference in machine arithmetic don't affect document layout) and hardly any structure other than global variables and goto statements so Fortran is an ideal language:-)
@DavidCarlisle that is funny. One common /...../ will do. The good old days :)
@DavidCarlisle: Joseph wrote a cool code, I'm trying very hard to break it. :(
10:02 AM
@Nasser you need to distinguish between tex the program (written in pascal) and latex (written in tex) latex written in a procedural language would be completely different, the main feature of the macro processor is that (like lisp) you execute the document (there is no compiler despite the recent terminology that calls latex a compiler) if you had a typesetter written in an imperative language you would end up with the document as data on which a separate program acts.
10:18 AM
We could make a cover of one of Adele's songs, Rolling in the \skip. :)
Proposed Additions to the PDP-11 Instruction Set:

DC	Divide and Conquer
DMPK	Destroy Memory Protect Key
DO	Divide and Overflow
EMPC	Emulate Pocket Calculator
EPI	Execute Programmer Immediately
EROS	Erase Read Only Storage
EXCE	Execute Customer Engineer
HCF	Halt and Catch Fire
IBP	Insert Bug and Proceed
INSQSW	Insert into queue somewhere (for FINO queues [First in never out])
PBC	Print and Break Chain
PDSK	Punch Disk

paulo@alexandria ~$
10:55 AM
@DavidCarlisle wait is TeX written pascal?
@Argo Yup
@Argo Pascal in WEB form, at least
I never thought of that... I thought it was C
@Argo Why?
@JosephWright No idea really. Some old (~30 years) software that's still used a lot just seem to be using C. Like Vim.
@Argo I'm more surprised it's not COBOL or FORTRAN, given the age
11:00 AM
@Argo You know that Pascal is older than C? :)
@JosephWright UNICOL. :)
@PauloCereda Granted, I didn't knew that. It's just, C seems like sort of an universal language for applications.
@Argo but for many years it hasn't needed a pascal compiler as it is compiled via web2c which takes the highly documented subset of pascal Knuth invented called web and translates it to C for compilation. That's been the standard rout on unix-like Tex systems since almost forever
@Argo I'm just kidding. :) They are just one year apart, IIRC. Pascal was more self-contained (just like Wirth wanted), but C is more low level. :)
@DavidCarlisle I see. That's actually pretty handy.
I wonder if we could make (La)TeX faster by using a different language
@Argo unlikely, basically Tex uses lots of loops into integer indexed arrays and after being converted to C they are pretty fast and so to get it faster you'd have to actually improve the algorithms which isn't impossible but Knuth knows a thing or two about algorithms.....
11:08 AM
@Argo The TeX part is fast, as is the LaTeX kernel
@Argo I usually have some reluctancy when talking about speed. :) To me, as long the document is produced correctly, time isn't, to some extent, much of a deal. Granted, Frank once told us that TLC took about 20 minutes to be generated, and it's a hell of time. But it's quite challenging, as the goal of (La)TeX is to typeset documents, and it does quite well. I believe it's our own fault to make software suffer from creeping featurism. :)
I think the pre-TikZ era, no one was worried with speed. :P
@DavidCarlisle LOL I lost at the end. :)
Actually, David has a picture mode crusade to fight the TikZ mafia. :)
@Argo LaTeX is already quite fast. In my experience what makes LaTeX slow is mainly all the I/O that has to be done (all the files that have to be read, interpreted, etc). Because of this compiling is extremely fast in Linux (better filesystem) especially when running from an SSD.
2 hours later…
1:19 PM
MacTeX 2014 deployed! :)
@PauloCereda Welcome!
@egreg Grazie! :) Now I'm updating it. Maybe I'll volunteer to test Yosemite. :)
@egreg: Corpus Christi today, people are preparing the streets. :)
@PauloCereda We have it on Sunday; it used to be a holiday, it hasn't been for some decades.
@egreg Really? I heard that some countries didn't have it anymore. :(
@PauloCereda What festival is this?
1:27 PM
@JosephWright A catholic feast. :)
@PauloCereda End of May and June used to be full of holidays: Ascension, Corpus Christi and SS. Peter and Paul. All moved to Sunday.
@PauloCereda Well I guessed that
@egreg All but Corpus Christi were moved to Sunday.
@PauloCereda The most recent one we here is Pentecost, but that's no longer a public holiday (Whitsun) either, so we get the late May bank holiday instead
@JosephWright Ah.
1:29 PM
@JosephWright It was introduced in 1264, after an alleged miracle at Bolsena.
@egreg Quite old, then
(Offtopic: @Joseph: how do you prefer me sharing l3build with you? I'm quite reluctant with a fork because I believe we could benefit from eventual small merges instead of a huge commit).
@PauloCereda Well I can't give you SVN access, so it will have to be diffs/e-mails or similar
@JosephWright During a Mass celebrated by a priest who had some doubts about transubstantiation, the consecrated host shed blood. The corporal with this blood is preserved in the cathedral of Orvieto.
@egreg, @Joseph: Last year's Corpus Christi in Matão (a city nearby): youtube.com/watch?v=uQqsG6K3uBo It's very artistic.
1:32 PM
@egreg Ah
@JosephWright Ah sounds like a plan. :)
@egreg We don't really go for that sort of thing here (CoE rather less big on these things)
@PauloCereda Probably we can make everything local: I fiddled about to make sure the last line of the build.lua loader is the dofile one
@JosephWright I was gonna ask you the very same thing. Unless explicitly defining a local context, everything is global and might gives us trouble. Another idea I had is to encapsulate the code inside functions.
@PauloCereda I guess I'm used to working globally :-)
@PauloCereda The original implementation had dofile part-way through, and there local really does not work
@PauloCereda I'm no Lua programmer, as I've already pointed out
1:37 PM
@JosephWright It's not a bad thing, don't get me wrong. :) It's just about propagation, and it might get things out of control.
@JosephWright You are doing great.
I'm still understanding the script as a whole, so maybe we can modularize things later. :)
@PauloCereda I'd point out in my defence that the code is not meant to be used 'in general': it's focussed on a batch process
@JosephWright Sustained. :) It's just a good practice IMHO. See e.g, arara: people are using it far beyond my original intentions.
@PauloCereda Yes, I understand
@JosephWright <3
Then Bruno comes and rewrites everything with his epic powers. :)
@PauloCereda I need to get him to sort out case changes (context sensitive part is hard)
@PauloCereda Regrettably, he's not going to touch xor
1:43 PM
@JosephWright @David's :)
@PauloCereda And Frank's
@JosephWright :)
2:12 PM
@PauloCereda: Incoming...
@moose: We have the TeX.SE Blog. In chat, talk to our most talkative Paulo; he'll be glad to help set you up with connections. Currency of payment is usually in ducks... ;) — Werner 23 secs ago
I think my motivation/suggestion is honest on this site, and that a blog post might be a better option rather than a non-question. What's your opinion, @PauloCereda?
@Werner Agreed. :) A blog post surely is welcome. Maybe a post on TeX mailing lists are also good tactics. :)
@PauloCereda Yuuup.
@Werner Of course, we encourage more than "hey it's the TeX.sx blog, go subscribe to this and that"... there has to be a good background. TeX background. :)
I'd love some to read about some technical details of the project, it sounds challenging. :)
@Werner: and I'll gladly accept the duck payment. :)
Hey, lockstep is back to retagging! I missed him. :)
2:38 PM
@PauloCereda his powers will be sapped: he's started asking tikz questions on site :(
@DavidCarlisle Wow!
@David: since you are a TikZ expert, you can handle the pressure. :)
You know your website needs updated when you are still offering Hints for WordPerfect Users and Fonts on 3.5" diskette only £3
3:02 PM
@AlanMunn Hey! WordPerfect is still alive!
@AlanMunn true: with inflation they must be worth more like £10 now
@egreg So it is. I had no idea.
@DavidCarlisle I think on a 3.5" diskette their value approaches £0.
@AlanMunn However 3.5" diskettes are rather uncommon, these days. To this I agree. ;-)
3:18 PM
I can only get one enthusiast badge? D:
@AlanMunn rare antique, if it is in mint condition in original packaging a bargain at £100
@Werner What does it mean "payment is usually in ducks"?
@moose @PauloCereda has a thing with ducks.
@AlanMunn I'm fond of ducks. :)
@moose: we would love to have a blog post about your work in progress!
Off-topic: HP LaserJet 1020 working in its full glory on Fedora 20!
@hftf I'm afraid so. I have “1184 days, 1184 consecutive”, how many badges? ;-)
3:32 PM
@PauloCereda I could send you a post card with a duck on it (I think I have seen that at the university shop). In that case I would need your post address (you can send it to info@martin-thoma.de))
@PauloCereda Is there a place where I can write the draft? Who would I send the complete article to? How long and how technical could / should it be?
@moose We are just kidding. :) Don't worry. :)
@moose First step: tex.blogoverflow.com/wp-admin Then @JosephWright will give you author access. You can create a new blog entry and write as your heart desires (just don't publish it yet -- there will be a big button with Publish, resist the temptation!). I think it's up to you, write what you feel like, if you could expand a little on each topic, it would be great. But it doesn't need to be highly technical, just give the general idea and call our brothers in arms. :)
3:47 PM
@egreg :( I was trying to get the 100 day badge and somehow the UTC thing screwed me over
@PauloCereda: Thank you very much! Does the blog also have as cool community editing features so that other people can correct me if I'm wrong (especially language mistakes)?
@hftf :(
@moose Not like the SE framework, but we have contributors that can surely help you. @Alan is one of them. :)
@moose: welcome to the team! :)
And our super editor bb is always glad to help. :)
@PauloCereda: Thanks :)
Mostly it seems the number of interesting questions to me has declined during the summer
3:49 PM
@moose The pleasure is ours. Your research is very interesting, congrats for your achievements! :)
@PauloCereda What might follow is very interesting. The professor I've talked to has a very strong automatic speech recognition (ASR) background, but ASR for math lectures is aweful. Depending on how successful my research will be, it might help to improve spoken math recognition (I've previously asked a question about it: tex.stackexchange.com/q/153129/5645)
I have to go now
@moose Awesome, I'm looking forward to it. :)
@moose Thanks again! Cheerio!
@hftf Many people finishing their theses, it seems.
@egreg: Oh I forgot to tell you, kpfonts looks awesome, thank you very much! I just had the impression the typewriter family doesn't look that good. Any suggestions? :)
@PauloCereda Beramono? There are many.
3:56 PM
@egreg Good idea. :)
@PauloCereda Here's a package for experimenting

Some text with $e^{-x^2}$ math and \texttt{Monospaced} type.
@egreg ooh!
@egreg: for a minute, I thought it was one of your packages. :)
1 hour later…
5:07 PM
Is this even possible? latex-community.org/forum/…
5:23 PM
@Johannes_B Yes, it's possible to use natbib and type the bibliography by hand. The optional argument to \bibitem should be suitabily crafted: \bibitem[Carlson and Pelletier(1995)]{Carlson1995} for a two author item; \bibitem{Someone et~al.(2014)Someone, Someoneelse and Again]{Key} for an “et al.” entry.
@egreg Thanks for having a look, i suggested the same when i realised that he is doing everything by hand.
But i see it correctly, that natbib cannot, by any means, know what the author is.
@Johannes_B For a one author item, \bibitem[Uthor(1999)]{key}
@Johannes_B It wants a precise set of data as shown.
@egreg Thanks for your help.
Colombia scored!
@PauloCereda Twice, I believe.
5:33 PM
@egreg :)
I already see Gonzalo going out with his flag!
@egreg :)
Q: tex upgrade 2014 md5 issues

knkI am following this document to create my upgrade - http://www.tug.org/texlive/upgrade.html In the last step where I # tlmgr update --self --all Reading from filehandle failed at /usr/local/texlive/2014/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLUtils.pm line 3753. I opened up the file and it failed at the md5 check. ...

Bad file. :(
6:21 PM
@JosephWright Could you please give me author access for the blog tex.blogoverflow.com? My username is '271958' and my nickname is 'moose'. I would like to write an article about my LaTeX-related thesis. Before I publish it, I will ask you and probably @PauloCereda or @Alan to take a look at it if it fits to the blog.
6:57 PM
is world cup thingy still on? I do not have TV, but I heard there is big football thing going on in south America. I am trying lyx now. I think I like Scientific word more so far.
@moose Done
@Nasser you should try emacs.
@DavidCarlisle This my workflow: I start with SW, do all the heavy math in it, since it so much easier and I can write something there in 1 hr that would take me days in Latex. Then I switch to texstudio for final clean up and adding support for tex4ht and such. But then the math is done, so the rest is easy. It works really well for me.
It is so much easier seeing the math on the screen while writing it, with matrices, long equations, and such. You should try SW one day. they have free evaluation :)
May 14 at 16:38, by David Carlisle
@JasperLoy It fails the iie test I apply to editors, so I can't use it.
7:21 PM
>>I attached the lyx file and a word file that has the entire log.<<
When i try to help LyX users, stuff like that happens.
7:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle Oops.
@egreg I can't imagine what caused that comment...
@DavidCarlisle I'm watching a cricket match and a player missed an easy out. ;-)
@egreg it happens sometimes.
@DavidCarlisle Yes, when a Pole plays for England. And should be a defensive player.
8:31 PM
@egreg oops
Oh! England is able to score!
@DavidCarlisle Oops.
8:51 PM
@DavidCarlisle I believe that you should have a beer.
@egreg apparently we have faith Italy will save us (but it's only football, not cricket)
@DavidCarlisle Any thoughts on the current LaTeX-L thread?
@DavidCarlisle Should we? :P
@JosephWright I think we shoudl have the ini files in the core distribution so we control what's in them, even if they reference contrib stuff, and make the lua and xe formats have whatever allocators they need, in the format
@JosephWright and we should get inputenc working in lua and xe as well:-)
Back from the mass + procession. And England lost again!
9:37 PM
@PauloCereda Rubbing salt on the wound.
@egreg Ouch.
@PauloCereda The English here were trying to change matter of discourse. ;-)
@egreg :)
1 hour later…
10:48 PM
What fun. Today's live stream commentary is in Norwegian.
@AlanMunn lol
@PauloCereda But with HD picture.
@AlanMunn Go Norway! :)
@PauloCereda So apparently the England/Uruguay game was good to watch? I missed it.
@AlanMunn I was in the mass and procession. I lost the fun. :(
10:53 PM
@AlanMunn Not really the best match, but pleasurable.
@AlanMunn No broken leg, which, with Uruguay, is quite unusual.
@egreg ? I'm missing a reference here. Are they the breakers or the breakees?
@AlanMunn Breakers, usually.
@egreg I see. So ugly tackles.
@AlanMunn It kept the Italians entertained apparently
@AlanMunn They used to be considered very tough players. But it's really a thing of the past; also Argentinians were famous.
11:28 PM
Before I start using the following approach to write my project, I want to make sure it does not violate the best practice. What do you think about the following? Is it ok or do you have any idea to make it better?
(-2x^2 +3x +5)(4x -3)	&= -8x^3 	&&+6x^2\\
											&					&&+12x^2 	&&-9x\\
											&					&&				&&+20x -15

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