Unix 2014 Election

Caleb

4:17 PM

→ 1 message moved to Unix and Linux

Kevin

5:14 PM

@Caleb Nice. I think I only have 1 outspoken (sff).

Seth

Huh, I'd never thought about it, but I guess it can be earned multiple times can't it?

wrong room? :)

Ramesh

@Seth, oops. yeah.

Kevin

5:45 PM

It happens. As far as wrong room posts goes, that's not bad.

At work we've had a couple people type their passwords into the whole company chat by accident.

Caleb

5:56 PM

@Seth Once per site I think.

Caleb

6:25 PM

@kevin Welcome to the fray!

derobert

6:38 PM

Oh, and quick, we need another 6 candidates or we won't get the Full Election Experience(tm)!

goldilocks

@derobert I think I have almost enough alter-ego accounts (aka. my biggest fans) for that ;)

Ramesh

wow we have one more candidate in the last minute for the election.

I posted kevin's nomination in the wrong site :) It happened twice for me now.

*in the wrong chat window.

Faheem Mitha

@Ramesh I thought Anthon might enter but it doesn't look like it. Are nominations closted now?

derobert

No, there is a little time left. Somewhere around an hour.

Ramesh

I think one hour left

So, now do we go to election directly since there is less than 10 candidates?

derobert

6:49 PM

@Ramesh Correct. In about an hour, you all will (puts politician hat on) all have the opportunity to vote for me.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert We can't wait.

Or maybe that should be "can't hardly wait".

Caleb

@derobert I'm kind of surprised we don't have one from Evan. I figured he'd be here to help us into primaries at least.

Faheem Mitha

@Caleb One what? And who is Evan?

Braiam

meh, elections are boring... maybe I should throw my hat in :/

Caleb

@FaheemMitha 5 more minutes. I kind of hoped to see Anthon too.

Faheem Mitha

6:55 PM

@Caleb You and me both.

Caleb

← 15 messages moved from Unix and Linux

@Braiam Better make it quick!

@derobert There won't be any huge urgency to vote however. The other thing that will happen is those survey questions will get compiled and we can all take a whack at answering them. Hopefully at least some people weigh those in their vote.

Ramesh

I'm surprised goldilocks did not nominate himself. Is there any specific reason @goldilocks?

goldilocks

@Ramesh If no one I considered competent had run, I would have. But there are plenty, so...

Caleb

Take that back, we have a whole 60 MINUTES left till elections start.

Ramesh

so, the question is, will my voting activity be private?

Caleb

7:01 PM

So @Braiam @anthon et all, you can take your time writting those nominations.

Faheem Mitha

@Ramesh How can you know that without a time machine?

Ramesh

@FaheemMitha, what? I did not understand.

Faheem Mitha

@Ramesh How can you know who will be efficient moderators without a time machine?

derobert

@Ramesh The fact that you participated is public (you get a badge for visiting the page). I think the actual votes you cast, if any, are private.

Ramesh

@FaheemMitha, well, I meant the nominees for the election are really efficient. They know their stuff and are pretty well experienced.

But the fact how they will fare as a moderator remains to be seen. I personally believe that being a moderator is not something different from what they are now.

Faheem Mitha

7:06 PM

@Ramesh Knowing stuff and being experienced is not the same as being efficient (I assume you mean as moderators). Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Ramesh

@derobert, thanks for clarifying.

terdon

@Caleb Yes, that is strange. He also missed the ELL elections.

Caleb

@Ramesh Yes. your votes (you get 3) will be private.

The fact that you voted will be public.

Ramesh

@Caleb, thanks. But why 3 votes?

Caleb

As will the total vote tallies an the end of elections (you don't get to see progress, just dissect the final results).

terdon

7:09 PM

@derobert how come you don't have the Sportsmanship badge? I was quite surprised at that, it seems out of character.

@Ramesh You get to choose a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice.

Ramesh

@terdon, oh no. That is kind of difficult to choose.

Caleb

@Ramesh Because SE elections use the Single Tranferable Vote method to run elections, and multiple vote input over multiple candidates allows them to rank the candidates by people's preferences.

terdon

@Ramesh No one said it was going to be easy :) Just choose me as 1st choice, and you can choose whoever you like for the rest :P

Caleb

→ 1 message moved to Unix and Linux

3 messages deleted

Faheem Mitha

@terdon No one said what was going to be easy?

terdon

7:12 PM

@FaheemMitha My bad, meant to reply to Ramesh.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon ok

Seth

Evan did not miss the ELU election.

terdon

@Kevin step into the ring! :)

Seth

Evan got removed ;)

terdon

Ah

I thought I'd seen him on the ELU elections.

Seth

7:14 PM

Dunno why he didn't show up here shrug

blargh time shift.

Caleb

@Seth I saw that. He also visited the election page here (he got the badge) and has the rep to nominate, so I was waiting for the shoe to drop.

Seth

Maybe he decided with Tim following him around the game was up.

On AU he can't nominate any more since he won't sign our CoC.

Ramesh

CoC means?

Seth

Code of Conduct.

Caleb

@FaheemMitha Evan is a high rep user on SO who has counter culture ideas about how SE should function for which he catches quite a bit of flack on meta and he's notorious for trolling elections.

Ramesh

7:17 PM

oh, so the moderators elected for U & L would have to sign some CoC too?

Seth

no

It's an Ubuntu only thing.

Kevin

@terdon I'm already here. Though I have to step out again for a bit.

Seth

@Ramesh Canonical officially "sponsors" AU (for lack of a better word)

Faheem Mitha

@Caleb I see.

Seth

They work with SE to make sure AU fits all their design guidelines and link to it in a lot of their support pages.

Ramesh

7:20 PM

@Seth, oh ok. That's information for me :)

Braiam

**Dictionary of Canonical**

sponsor (s.): being able to link to others without any responsability

Seth

It was news to Evan too, when he tried to nominate himself ;P

@Braiam heh, got that bug too have you?

Ramesh

@Seth, so AU functions like rest of Stack exchange sites or you have follow some specific rules as per canonical?

Braiam

@Seth this one? :P

and there it's

derobert

@terdon I've been sort of conflicted on if I should vote on questions I've answered. Normally, someone would be expected to abstain from voting on issues that they have a personal interest in (conflict of interest and all). So I am somewhat reluctant to vote at all in questions I've answered. I almost completely avoid downvoting on them, and only upvote when its an amazingly good competing answer.

I guess the existence of the badge does tell me I should ignore this conflict of interest, at least for upvotes...

Seth

7:25 PM

@Braiam No, the "Canonical should just leave us alone" idea.

@Ramesh No specific rules, no. Being a Canonical supported site you have to follow the Coc (it is in the terms of service), but other than that it functions pretty much the same as any other SE site.

Braiam

@Seth ah, well, kinda

at least people will reach us by doing the mandatory search

Caleb

@Braiam Well then. Hi.

terdon

@derobert Huh, OK, I tend to upvote any answer I would have upvoted anyway. As long as it's correct, I'll upvote.

Seth

My joke fell flat it seems :(

Caleb

And with that, my pre-conceived ideas about who I'd be voting for are officially null and void.

derobert

7:29 PM

@terdon What about downvotes? Those are the ones that I'm really conflicted about.

Braiam

ugh... I didn't knew I lack so many badges :/

maybe I should imitate Gilles and do rounds

Seth

@Braiam In case you want one more character, I think you meant "roster" instead of "rooster". One is a list, the other is a bird ;)

terdon

@derobert Personally, I don't see a conflict of interest. I will downvote (and usually comment on, explaining why) wrong answers irrespective of whether I've answered the same Q or not.

derobert

@terdon also, it appears from data.stackexchange.com/unix/query/38592/… that there aren't actually enough competing answers for me to get that badge :-P

I guess my answers must be too good <--- still wearing politician hat

Caleb

@Braiam You have more green there than .... ehem ...

terdon

7:31 PM

@Kevin By the way, I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way. It was not intended as an attack. I was just surprised at the phrasing of your nomination. Both the "my users" and the apparent lack of confidence in the rest of us. It seemed strange that you felt it important enough to actually point out your lack of satisfaction.

Gilles

@Ramesh THe Code of Conduct is an Ubuntu thing, but all SE mods have to sign the moderator agreement

Faheem Mitha

Wow, @Braiam makes a last minute declaration.

terdon

@Braiam how can you not have the copy editor badge? You've made loads of edits!

(sorry, double ping)

Seth

wat. No copy editor? :P

Faheem Mitha

What kind of editor sendoff is :x ?

Braiam

7:35 PM

@terdon not enough tags have bite the dust... so it seems

Caleb

@FaheemMitha Vim.

It's a shortcut for :wq

terdon

@Seth Yeah. And this is Braiam we're talking about! I'm half sure there's some mistake.

Faheem Mitha

@Caleb Ah, news to me, thanks.

Braiam

yeah, there's something wrong...

Faheem Mitha

@derobert why do you have a personal interest in questions you've answered?

Caleb

7:37 PM

@FaheemMitha So is ZZ. Which is part of why vim shows up so much in answers to this: (because you can close it without the enter key)

134

Q: DISARM THE B.O.M.B.!

You have been hired for your tech knowledge as a Secret Agent's sidekick to ensure that the good guy can get his job done and the world can be saved. This is your last mission before retiring with a high paycheck and the gratitude of the whole world. But before you have to disarm the Evil Genius...

Braiam

my activity says 705 edits unix.stackexchange.com/users/41104/… and the badge requires 500....

terdon

@Braiam You're listed as having 596 edits on the all time editors page.

Caleb

@Braiam Tag only edits don't count.

terdon

^^^ That explains it.

Shame though, Braiam is a prolific editor and it seems unfair that that is not evident.

derobert

@FaheemMitha Well, because I answered it. I'm used to organizational policies that say I should abstain from any decisions which I'd personally benefit from, even if it isn't really influencing my vote, because it appears corrupt.

Seth

7:40 PM

I guess there are sometimes too many edits? Kinda odd.

Braiam

note to self: find post that are wrong in several ways, not just the tags

Faheem Mitha

@derobert I don't think this applies here.

derobert

I guess it really doesn't make sense here. I'm only getting Worthless Internet Points, after all.

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam That's easy to do. This site is filled with posts with horrible grammar, misformattings etc.

derobert

So, I guess I'll stop avoiding voting on answers where I've also answered. Still won't get that badge for quite a while, as I appear not to have 100 competing answers to vote on.

Faheem Mitha

7:42 PM

@derobert Exactly. Well, Imaginary Internet Points. Whether they are worthless is in the eye of the beholder. By that token, the Lord of the Rings is pretty worthless.

Caleb

@derobert This is good practice! Especially as a MOD it's helpful to not give people things to even wonder about wrong motivations.

Faheem Mitha

@Caleb Pity real politicians don't follow those rules.

Caleb

However I would say voting on posts is also part of your duties, and not a conflict of interest per-se.

@FaheemMitha true. An oversight to ~~their~~ all our detriment.

Faheem Mitha

@Caleb Well, actually to every elses detriment. They tend to make out pretty well.

derobert

@Caleb well, voting on posts isn't really a special mod duty, it's open to everyone with, what, a hundred or two rep?

Gilles

7:44 PM

@derobert I definitely don't refrain from voting for any reason (as long as the reason is based on the post content). Mod or not, competing answer or not.

When there's a wrong answer, the right thing is to downvote it and post a correct answer (if there isn't one already)

Caleb

@derobert 15 I believe. But whatever your role on the site you have a duty to contribute to the crowd sourced nature of the vote system. It is only useful in the aggregate and the more people that recuse themselves from it the less-efficient the system becomes.

Gilles

@derobert voting isn't a mod duty. But low voting activity is a bad sign for a mod: it shows you aren't looking at many posts or not paying attention.

derobert

@Gilles Sure, I did that. But what I avoided (and you all have convinced me its not really an issue, so I won't avoid anymore) was when I answer something, then competing answers come in...

@Gilles Exactly. That makes sense. We aren't electing someone to vote on posts, but we'd be silly to elect someone who doesn't look at posts.

Gilles

English is weird: you run or stand for election. If you get elected, you become a sitting councilor/representative/whatever. And typically to get elected you lie.

4

Caleb

@Gilles touché

Braiam

7:49 PM

@Gilles thanks for remembering why I love spanish

Gilles

@derobert yup. For example I wouldn't elect a moderator who doesn't downvote. That tells me he's probably not going to close/delete what needs to go either.

Braiam

ok, checking out the questionnaire, we have 3 by Gilles, 2 mine, and one for Anthon, jasonwryian and Patrick

Caleb

@derobert One of the reasons [badge:sportsmanship] exists in to encourage continued participation in voting even if you are an active answerer. And upvoting the competition is good if they are useful and correct answers (the SE model does best when there are a couple good answers per Q) but it would be remise not to also DV when appropriate.

If all you did was DV that might be troubling, but if you [eventually] earn sportsmanship the fact that you also DV a few along the way is a sign that you're using the system for its strengths, not a sign of abuse.

Gilles

Should I delete my editor question?

I meant it mostly as a joke (but not completely: it's a test for a sense of humor), but I don't want it to displace important stuff

terdon

@Gilles I'd just wait and see if it makes it in.

It could at least give us a laugh.

Gilles

7:55 PM

@terdon at the moment, the 8 questions that are getting in are the ones scoring ≥5

Caleb

If I was Grace note I think I'd merge the Help Vampirism one with "give me the codez". After that it's kind of a wash on what anybody thought was important.

derobert

@Gilles I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like its really locking out any good questions (as, of course, someone can always just ask the candidates outside of the formal questions)

Caleb

@Gilles I'd leave it, for exactly these reasons.

Braiam

> We reserve some editorial control in the selection of the questions and may opt not to select a question that is tangential or irrelevant to moderation or the election.

Caleb

Of course I kind of triggered that whole snafou so I have blood on my hands already.

Gilles

7:56 PM

Ah, no! A sudden voter has changed the deal: now #8 ex-aequo are Braiam's what's the most frequent form of abuse and mine

@Caleb yes, and I think it's common to have one topic-related question together with the moderation-related questions

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I'm surprised that one got so many upvotes.

derobert

I'm hoping it gets in :-)

Gilles

someone suggested “favourite English word” on ELU, but it isn't getting in (-3!)

Seth

devnull's comment about it "not being necessary" et al kinda makes it all the more interesting.

Gilles

one minute mark

derobert

7:59 PM

After all, I managed to not get my :wq accidentally in my post. I'm not claiming that's because I know how to use my editor, it could just be because I hit the character limit.

AND THE ELECTION IS ON.

Caleb

@Seth True. I scratched my head a couple times wondering if he was serious or not; and I tried to make my response ambiguous.

terdon

WHohoooooooo! Let the best me win!

2

@Caleb Yes, that did seem aggressive. I'm guessing he's not an English native and somehow misconstrued your response.

Seth

@Caleb He was serious. devnull is always serious, as far as my experience with him goes.

terdon

I also wonder what he has against Stephane. He does tend to edit a lot but he always improves the post.

derobert

I obviously know who my first choice is, but the others are difficult. Glad to be running alongside such a qualified list of candidates.

Braiam

8:01 PM

@terdon how may you there are?

Gilles

<candidates sort -k $ABILITY_COLUMN,$ABILITY_COLUMN

terdon

@Braiam Depends, how many votes do you have? :P

@derobert Right back at'cha.

Seth

hmm. I got two of my spots filled.

Braiam

0

Q: 2014 Moderator Election Q&A - Questionnaire

In connection with the moderator elections, we are holding a Q&A thread for the candidates. Questions collected from an earlier thread have been compiled into this one, which shall now serve as the space for the candidates to provide their answers. Not every question was compiled - as noted, we o...

discussion featured election

is alive!

terdon

Huh? We can vote for ourselves?

Seth

8:02 PM

yep

derobert

@Gilles you made it. Your editor question got in.

1

Q: 2014 Moderator Election Q&A - Questionnaire

In connection with the moderator elections, we are holding a Q&A thread for the candidates. Questions collected from an earlier thread have been compiled into this one, which shall now serve as the space for the candidates to provide their answers. Not every question was compiled - as noted, we o...

discussion featured election

Gilles

@terdon like in a normal election

Seth

@terdon and it is generally considered fine too.

Caleb

@Braiam That was fast. I wonder if the selection even reflects our last minute voting spree!

Seth

I guess my last slot will wait until the candidates have answered the questionnaire.

terdon

8:04 PM

Is there any way we can see the vote count? I seem to recall there was one in previous elections.

Seth

that was for the primary.

Caleb

@terdon Not till elections are over.

Seth

You can't see anything in the actual election, and we didn't get a primary :-/

terdon

Ah, yes, @Seth is right, I was thinking of the primary on SU.

Gilles

Well, I've voted. I might still change my vote based on the questionnaire or for any other reason.

terdon

8:08 PM

@Gilles Now, that was a thinly veiled request for swag if I ever read one!

Gilles

@terdon I have quite a few swag offers from SE that I've yet to claim, so you'll have to do better than that

Caleb

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles That unicorn painting?

Gilles

in Unix and Linux, yesterday, by Gilles

Apparently the painting of a unicorn is a lie

Seth

I heard SE stopped doing reputation league swag, so I'm sure they stopped giving out paintings too.

Gilles

8:14 PM

@Seth they did offer something for 200k, but only generic stuff like a T-shirt

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Bummer. Did you ask for a unicorn painting?

Seth

@Gilles Ah. I'm sure you already have one ;)

I really want one of those retractable sharpies.

(well "really want" is relative)

terdon

@Seth What are those?

Seth

Huh, look what I found.

@terdon bottom left corner --^

terdon

Is that a pen or a cutter?

Seth

8:20 PM

Oh

Braiam

> Sharpie is an American manufacturer of writing instruments whose products are sold in over 20 countries

Seth

permanent marker.

terdon

Thanks both of 'ya. That's what I get for not growing up in the states. I just call them pens.

Braiam

@terdon apparently they can be erased, with a good ol' milk white dry eraser

so, not your run of the mill pen

casey

you can get clicky sharpies at staples. If you buy two of them you can use one to cross out sharpieand to write stackexchange on the other.

@Braiam real sharpies require an alcohol based liquid to erase.

Braiam

8:24 PM

so... Sharpie is not a brand?

casey

@Braiam it is, but there are knock-offs and I think sharpie also makes wet and dry erase markers which confuse the issue a bit

s/real sharpie/sharpie permanent marker/

Seth

It's like "Kleenex". That is a brand of tissue paper, but in the US we use it to refer to tissue paper now.

Kevin

@terdon And I hope you didn't take offense from my "dissatisfaction" line. It's nothing personal against you or any of the candidates, I just didn't see enough compelling candidates.

derobert

@casey Except the good ones, those do not erase even with alcohol.

casey

@derobert true.

and there are various versions of the sharpie for different writing surfaces

derobert

8:30 PM

Yep. I had some "industrial" ones, which were nice because that ink survives alcohol, soap, the dishwasher, ...

casey

the dishwasher is the one I want to avoid. I want to write my kids name on a glass bottle and have it never come off. but also be safe for infants....

:)

Caleb

@Kevin Perhaps we could ask you to comment—not on specific candidates—but on what attributes you think are important and would distinguish a compelling candidate from a weak one?

derobert

@casey Yeah, most of them are marked non-toxic. Probably completely fine, as long as you keep the marker itself away from the kid. (And, of course, glass is not an easy surface for a marker to stick to. Good luck on that...)

Braiam

@Seth you mean Gillete ;P

casey

@derobert indeed, as my growing collection of markers and paint pens will attest to

Faheem Mitha

8:34 PM

@casey damn, much of the above is not election material. :-)

derobert

@Caleb I asked him in a comment on his nomination

casey

@FaheemMitha yea, I just noticed I was in the wrong tab.

I voted! so should you!

Caleb

@derobert Yes, but comments are now locked and he can't reply there.

Faheem Mitha

@casey I plan to. We have a week, don't we?

casey

@FaheemMitha 8 more days I think.

Faheem Mitha

8:35 PM

@casey ok

derobert

Yep. 8 days, so says the election page.

casey

and no primary, not enough candidates. its the real deal now

Braiam

now that I have time, our average helpful flags is low...

Stephen Ostermiller

It's great to see a Stack Exchange election featuring so many great candidates. It was pretty easy to pick three that looked strong, all of whom would make great moderators.

Kevin

@FaheemMitha Eight days a week ♫

terdon

8:48 PM

@Kevin More curious than offended really. Not personally offended at all but I did find the sentiment surprising. What is it that you feel the current candidates lack and you would provide?

Anthon would probably have been the best candidate for this since he's always fixing things up silently behind the scenes anyway, but he didn't run.

Gilles

@Braiam Gillette? Is that tissues in your country? Here it's a brand of razors (and also a rare female name)

Braiam

@Gilles of course I was referring to the razors brand name (or it's company?), since it's more widely known. If you say "gillete" anywhere in the world is more likely that you will end up with a razor, than you would with tissues if you say "kleenex"

and now I remember that I have to shut firefox off...

Seth

Huh, that isn't the impression I get around here.

@Braiam Back to your popcorn bad boy ;P

Gilles

@Braiam around here, if you ask for “un kleenex” you'll get a tissue. If you ask for “un gillette” you'll get a queer look.

Seth

I should really fire up a proxy and CBC.

Kevin

9:30 PM

@Caleb There's not any one thing that would make a candidate, though some things could set them back quite a bit. Sort of like college admissions in that regard. I've read all the nominations and glanced through the first couple pages of their activity, but my mind was mostly made up based on what I've seen from each of the candidates over the years on this site.

Braiam

@Gilles France is always weird ;)

Kevin

It certainly helps for a candidate to convince me they know exactly what a mod's job is (which is not really something you can get from reading all about the job), and that they're asking for the job for the right reasons.

And, I might add, since becoming a mod almost always causes a reduction in a user's Q&A contributions to the site, electing users with high rep / activity isn't always in the site's best interests, as long as there are similarly qualified candidates who will be visiting the site often enough.

3

Gilles

9:51 PM

@Kevin so your slate is cnst, Caleb, you?

Caleb

@Gilles Evan Carroll, cnst, and yours truly, in that order.

Kevin

10:46 PM

@Gilles qualified being the key word there.

Gilles

@Kevin cnst is obviously qualified since he's a *BSD developer

Caleb obviously has a ton of Unix experience