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12:13 AM
Yesterday I was wondering whether someone had ever made something of the "9 holes" or "18 holes" in code golf...
that's actually really interesting... I'd like to see more of those
(or other takes on challenge)
 
12:49 AM
@m.buettner I wondered that too
For me it's hard to keep up with any other site when I have PPCG
 
I wonder, isn't duct-tape just a restricted-source + popularity-contest
 
1:04 AM
pretty much
 
1:17 AM
You know, I am wondering whether this site is for enjoying arguing about what belongs on this site or for enjoying programming challenges, stupid or not.
Of course, we do need restrictions...
 
1:32 AM
TARDIS has materialized at Saturday, May 10 at 07:32:52 PM
 
Hi there TARDIS
}}ransom
 
@TheDoctor Unknown command: ransom. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}random
 
@TheDoctor 62.6627549213
 
2:08 AM
So quiet in here...
 
Yeah
Bye :(
 
@Geobits you feature request on TARDIS has been processed.
 
}}xkcd random
}} :(
 
TARDIS has materialized at Saturday, May 10 at 08:13:09 PM
 
}}xkcd random
 
2:14 AM
@Geobits It IS about physics. It ALL is.
 
}}xkcd RaNdOm
 
@Geobits Anyone who says that they're great at communicating but 'people are bad at listening' is confused about how communication works.
 
It ignores case
 
I see that
}}XKcD raaaaaaaaaandom
 
@Geobits That one doesn't exist
 
2:15 AM
:)
 
}}no
 
:)
 
}}yes
 
@Geobits Unknown command: yes. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
2:17 AM
}}listcommands
 
@Geobits Commands: help, listcommands, random, xkcd, stats, no, die
 
}}sudo die
 
@Geobits Unknown command: sudo. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}:(){ :|:& };:
 
@Geobits Unknown command: :(){. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
2:20 AM
}}while True: os.fork()
 
@Geobits Unknown command: while. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}helpno
 
@Geobits Unknown command: helpno. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
 
1 hour later…
3:28 AM
TARDIS has materialized at Saturday, May 10 at 09:28:11 PM
 
4:18 AM
'Night -TheDoctor
 
 
5 hours later…
9:00 AM
}}listcommands
 
@ProgramFOX Commands: help, listcommands, random, xkcd, stats, no, die
 
}}help
 
@ProgramFOX I am a bot operated by TheDoctor. If I am misbehaving, ping him. Commands: type }}listcommands
 
}}no
 
9:01 AM
}}stats
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
}}stats 1
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
}}stats help
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
9:01 AM
}}die
 
@ProgramFOX TARDIS dematerializing...
@ProgramFOX [executing as sudo] ProgramFOX is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported
 
}}random
 
@ProgramFOX 98.7569587835
 
}}stats 1 2
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
9:03 AM
}}help stats
 
@ProgramFOX I am a bot operated by TheDoctor. If I am misbehaving, ping him. Commands: type }}listcommands
 
}}listcommands
 
@ProgramFOX Commands: help, listcommands, random, xkcd, stats, no, die
 
}} listcommands
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: . Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
9:06 AM
}}help. I'm a robot
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: help.. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}help.I'm_a_robot
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: help.i'm_a_robot. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}''""""<<<>>>>>>""""&&&&&&&&&
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: &#39;&#39;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&lt;&lt;&lt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;&quo‌​t;&quot;&quot;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
9:07 AM
}}stats
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
@TheDoctor What does the stats command do, actually? How can I use it?
}}xkcd random
 
@ProgramFOX Though please do confirm that it&#39;s actually me on Klout first, and not one of my friends trying to get me punched. The great thing about this douchebag deadman switch is that I will never dare trigger it.
 
}}xkcd random
 
@ProgramFOX Ma&#39;am, I admit that wasn&#39;t in the best taste, but you have to admire my delivery! Ha ha, get it? Oh God, don&#39;t throw those syringes! Your baby&#39;s fine!
 
9:12 AM
@TheDoctor You bot posts &#39; instead of '
}}xkcd
 
@ProgramFOX Trains rotate the Earth around various axes while elevators shift its position in space.
 
}}xkcd 1
 
@ProgramFOX Don&#39;t we all.
 
}}xkcd 999999999
 
@ProgramFOX That one doesn't exist
 
9:14 AM
@mniip It's really only restricted-source. So far all three attempts have been popcons, but in principle there's nothing stopping you from creating a code-golf, code-challenge, fastest-code, hell even KotH using the duct-tape concept.
 
}}xkcd now
 
@ProgramFOX This image stays roughly in sync with the day (assuming the Earth continues spinning). Shortcut: xkcd.com/now
 
sweet!
I didn't think that would work
}}xkcd time
 
@m.buettner The end.
 
}}xkcd about
 
9:19 AM
@ProgramFOX That one doesn't exist
 
9:29 AM
}}xkcd license.html
 
@ProgramFOX That one doesn't exist
 
}}***"""&&&&&&&''''''''''''<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&&""***
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: &quot;&quot;&quot;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&‌​#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&gt;&gt‌​;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&amp;&amp;&quot;‌​&quot;. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}‮
 
@m.buettner Unknown command: ‮. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
3
 
9:36 AM
Lol
}} ‮ I_am_a_robot ‭
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: . Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
Haha "SIDRAT"
 
}} ‮ hi ‭
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: . Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
?
Why is it not working?
I tried the same trick as I recently did with Doorknob's chatbot:
in Bot testing room, Apr 18 at 14:40, by DoorknobChatbot
@ProgramFOX Hello! That message was "‮!namuh laer a m'I .tob a ton m'I dnA ‭hello" and your username is ProgramFOX.
 
9:43 AM
@ProgramFOX Because tardis only prints the command up to the first space.
 
I didn't add spaces.
 
maybe the RTL mark is treated as a space? ‭
 
Perhaps it is, I'll try again:
 
}}‮hi
 
@m.buettner Unknown command: ‮hi. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
9:44 AM
see
(you must have copied a space in there or so)
 
}}‮ hi
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: ‮. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
lol
 
10:20 AM
hola
entering speed clue contest with Wobblebot
(such name)
 
 
2 hours later…
12:18 PM
}} ‮hi ‭
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: . Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}‮hi‭ ‭
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: ‮hi‭. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}} ih
 
@m.buettner Unknown command: . Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
12:19 PM
hm, interesting. nbsp's do separate the command
 
}}‮I_am_a_robot.‭
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: ‮i_am_a_robot.‭. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
}}‮tobor_a_ma_I
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: ‮tobor_a_ma_i. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
neat :D
 
12:22 PM
}}‮!tobor_a_ma_I‭
 
@ProgramFOX Unknown command: ‮!tobor_a_ma_i‭. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
Yay! It added text at the end!
 
}}‮@m.buettner Unknown command: . Type }}listcommands for a list of commands‭
 
@m.buettner Unknown command: ‮@m.buettner. Type }}listcommands for a list of commands
 
ah forgot, that spaces end the command
 
12:34 PM
}}stats
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
}}stats TARDIS
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
}}stats @TARDIS
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
1:12 PM
hi ;D
 
Hi @Trimsty!
 
So it's been a day since the non-challenge meta post and no new developments have been made.
 
@ProgramFOX you were busy.
Stats is broken :(
}}die
 
@TheDoctor TARDIS dematerializing...
 
1:21 PM
Need to do some codez
 
@Doorknob maybe it's due to the weekend?
btw guys, I have no idea what to think about codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/26920/…
 
Perhaps, but possibly more so due to the fact that the general community agrees with the post.
We might want to try starting to post non-challenge questions on PPCG soon.
 
I wouldn't say it's a duplicate of "hello mom", because it's seems to be a lot more challenging
at the same time this is what the beginning of code trolling looked like
"take a Programming 101 problem and slap the new challenge type on it"
that is, the underlying problem (implementing a sorting algorithm) is quite boring and would never survive as any other kind challenge type
 
So we need to close all unintuitive / boring challenges of this type with all due haste
 
do we?
I don't know
 
1:26 PM
If we don't, it will just be code-trolling all over again.
 
TARDIS has materialized at Sunday, May 11 at 07:26:58 AM
 
that's what I'm asking: is "Would the problem itself still be interesting if it were code golf?" a valid criterion for new types of challenges?
 
}}stats
 
@ProgramFOX Commands parsed: 0
 
}}fortune
 
1:27 PM
Magnocartic, adj.:
Any automobile that, when left unattended, attracts shopping carts.
-- Sniglets, "Rich Hall & Friends"
 
:)
 
@m.buettner Hmm. That sounds like a very good way to determine whether it's the challenge type that makes a post interesting, or the actual content (which is what we want).
Unfortunately we don't have a close reason for "not interesting enough."
 
@Doorknob yes, but then again, the "hello mom" one was a good challenge, because of the novelty of the duct-taping thing. that one was more about the general idea of duct-taping than about the underlying problem, so it's fine. is it fine to shift those criteria for follow up posts now?
@Doorknob haha yes, I thought that earlier
 
Doorknob you're so blue
 
I think "not interesting enough" should be handled with downvotes generally
 
1:30 PM
@m.buettner Hmm. I suppose the challenge type could have some effect on how interesting the challenge is (by restricting the code in some way), but then we'll be flooded with "print 'potato'" "print 'pickle'" "print 'pie'"
@m.buettner But then how will we close them? Downvotes don't prevent answers to a question.
 
I think we should leave this one open for now, because it has additional value over "hello mom" because the goal is much harder to accomplish with duct-taping. but if the next one is "multiply two numbers", I'd suggest closing as duplicate because the challenge adds nothing new over the first two and the challenge is just posted for the sake of duct-taping itself (and we had that).
 
@Doorknob you're a mod...
 
@TheDoctor who is a very reasonable person about not abusing his power in his own interest ;)
 
I know. It kind of sucks that mods can't do nonbinding votes...
 
@m.buettner Perfect. So the first post in a new and interesting category will be fine, but further trivial posts in this category (even if they're not really related to the previous one) can be closed as a dup, unless they add something new. Duplicates don't have to be carbon copies.
 
1:32 PM
I guess they could be dupes
 
yes, exactly. if the challenge adds no new value over existing ones, it's a duplicate. once two or three have been posted and it's becoming apparent that the new challenge type is becoming a recurring thing the underlying algorithmic problem has to be held to the same standards as any code golf challenge would.
 
Maybe we should make a post about this.
 
"How do we deal with novel emerging/recurring challenge types?"
 
Or "how to deal with simple challenges repeated using a new challenge type"
 
@TheDoctor yes, but the crux here is, why was "hello mom" alright, but the follow up questions like that are not.
 
1:36 PM
They're too close not to be a dupe
so we close them
 
and I think it's a more general question of how we can deal with new challenge types in a controlled manner without code trolling happening all over again. the danger of people using simple problems to reuse the challenge type is just one aspect of that.
 
If the trolls come back, i think Doorknob has full community permission to delete them...
 
^ anyone can edit that document; should be fine since we're only a few people right now
And suddenly five six seven people open the document. :P
 
you guys know my language, Ena?
working on a site for it :3
 
1:45 PM
@Trimsty Ooh, link it to us when you're done :D
 
@Doorknob Sure! I don't have a domain yet, so excuse the IP, but here's the current draft:
All the pages have the title 'Ena - Home'
fixing that now
 
don't have time to edit in a proper sentence into the doc, but in the answer, please don't focus on "print x, print y" stuff. the real question is how do we argue that "multiply two numbers" is a duplicate of "hello mom".
 
Wow, fancy!
 
It's a trivial challenge that has been posted before
 
@Doorknob thanks ;3 I'm actually kind of a web designer a little
 
1:47 PM
Alright, looks like an anonymous squirrel is doing that :P
 
thanks
 
Who is the anonymous squirrel? I want to give credit to the people who helped write this post. :P
 
titles fixed, yay
 
Is the anon squirrel righ after ?
I think that's me :)
 
added one sentence, but don't feel like you need to credit me for that ^^
 
2:02 PM
I'm assuming @ProgramFOX is Fox 314159?
 
Yes, that's me @Doorknob
 
Ok, I'll add your name in the list. :P
 
Hold on... need to make a few more edits
 
@m.buettner You did spark the idea for this entire post, so I'll put you in the "credits" list too. :P
 
haha, thanks. added another (half) sentence to justify that :D
 
2:03 PM
ena site now responsive all the way down to 350px ;D (this is relevant to the chat because ena will be used for golfing by me :P)
 
Alright, is it ready to post now?
 
yep!
 
yep!
 
Alright, posting it now
 
}}xkcd random
 
2:07 PM
 
@TheDoctor Bruce Schneier believes safewords are fundamentally insecure and recommends that you ask your partner to stop via public key signature.
 
dang it bot
My own creation is faster than me. :P
 
How fast does your bot polll the API?
(frequency?)
 
It doesn't use the API; it uses WebSockets
 
2:08 PM
guys, question
 
should i sacrifice purity and separate mathematical expressions and logic
keep it pure and sacrifice lack of an insanely large amount of curly brackets
or merge logic and curly bracket-less expressions?
 
If it's better for golfing, i guess combine them
 
e.g. g = 5 + 5 vs ={g,+{5,5}} vs g=5+5 (where = is an operator)
maybe i should merge them but also make it Polish? :P
=g,+5 5
that's pure, right?
 
So that would use commas and spaces for argument separation?
 
2:13 PM
@Doorknob oops, meant =g +5 5
 
That would require each function to have a fixed amount of arguments.
So adding three numbers would be... +5 +5 5?
 
@Doorknob you could pass arrays, or overflow
also yeah,
it would :3
the two main points of ena are:
1) the structure of the code and the structure of the memory is exactly the same
2) there is never any form of intermediate data
(or, at least, it's limited to the lowest possible point)
I'm thinking that memory regions (ena doesn't have data types, only these 'regions') should be modified in-place
thus eliminating both expressions and variable assignments
in fact, variables can be eliminated entirely
o:
 
I is confuse O_o
 
xD
Ena should probably be a data steam oriented language,
sort of event-based but less deterministic
it can only create instruction pipes and a few triggers, nothing more
(ladies and gentlemen, presenting, functional uml charts!)
virtual registers are such a performance bottleneck--
hey, I saw that :P
 
}}xkcd flowchart
 
2:21 PM
@TheDoctor That one doesn't exist
 
darn
 
}}xkcd Flowchart
 
@Trimsty That one doesn't exist
 
}}listcommands
 
aw
 
2:22 PM
@ProgramFOX Commands: help, listcommands, random, fortune, xkcd, stats, no, die
 
}}xkcd 1195
 
:P
 
}}xkcd now
 
@TheDoctor The way out is to use the marker you have to add a box that says &#39;get a marker&#39; to the line between you and &#39;start&#39;, then add a &#39;no&#39; line from the trap box to &#39;end&#39;.
@ProgramFOX This image stays roughly in sync with the day (assuming the Earth continues spinning). Shortcut: xkcd.com/now
 
2:22 PM
assuming the Earth continues spinning
 
That works because that comic has a /now shortcut.
 
}}xkcd 1000
 
one of my favs :P
 
@Trimsty Thank you for making me feel less alone.
 
2:23 PM
The way it works, is it scrapes xkcd.com/ whatever you put
 
}}xkcd 404
 
@Doorknob That one doesn't exist
 
}}fortune
 
"By long-standing tradition, I take this opportunity to savage other
designers in the thin disguise of good, clean fun."
-- P. J. Plauger, from his April Fool's column in April 88's "Computer Language"
 
:O
 
2:23 PM
}}fortune
 
One good thing about music,
Well, it helps you feel no pain.
So hit me with music;
Hit me with music now.
-- Bob Marley, "Trenchtown Rock"
 
))xkcd about
... did I bork it?
 
it's brackets :P
 
}}xkcd tech support
 
@Trimsty That one doesn't exist
 
2:24 PM
Oh whoops :P
 
;_;
 
}}xkcd about
 
@Doorknob That one doesn't exist
 
}}xkcd 637
 
2:24 PM
i bork'd it ;_;
 
@Trimsty Let me look away and type &#39;guy who&#39;s just jealous that I beat all his MarioKart times&#39; and turn back, and ... yup, there you are again!
 
}}xkcd archive
 
@Doorknob That one doesn't exist
 
}}xkcd about/
 
@Doorknob That one doesn't exist
 
2:25 PM
}}fortune
 
@TheDoctor Life is the urge to ecstasy.
 
}}xkcd 1137
 
:)
 
}}die
 
2:26 PM
@Doorknob Collaborative editing can quickly become a textual rap battle fought with increasingly convoluted invocations of U+202a to U+202e.
@ProgramFOX TARDIS dematerializing...
@ProgramFOX [executing as sudo] ProgramFOX is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported
 
:D
 
}}no
 
Here, test the bot in this room
 
2:27 PM
}}die
 
@TheDoctor TARDIS dematerializing...
 
Thanks @Doorknob
(antispam :3)
 
hold on, moving it...
 
also, if anybody's interested in talking about ena, #ena-lang on irc.freenode.net
 
@Trimsty You could create a chatroom here if you wanted
 
2:33 PM
How's our blog going?
 
Anybody interested in this site proposal? area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/68728/…
 
..ish
 
@hosch250 That seems very... anti-Stack Exchange
 
yeah
 
Everything will be mostly opinion based
 
2:34 PM
I know, but I like those now-banned questions on SO a lot.
 
@Doorknob there is software recommendations though, right?
 
@TheDoctor Sounds interesting.
 
2:35 PM
@m.buettner Yeah, and this site (PPCG)
 
well, not so much opinion based
 
still not typical SE
also code review is probably quite opinionated?
 
Yeah Puzzling! :D
 
It seems SO is becoming more of a Q&A database with each new site.
 
@Doorknob - blog??
 
?
 
Hows it going?
Weren't we going to have one?
 
Oh, right!
 
2:39 PM
It's snowing
 
It seems that sort of just... stopped
 
Darn :(
 
I don't know enough about SE and the site to help here.
 
TARDIS is back
 
auuuggh
now it tells me i'm not an operator
 
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