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1:20 AM
In TikZ 3.0's new graph syntax, how might I generate graph nodes? Instead of \graph { A1 -> A2 -> A3 }; I want to be able to write something like \newcommand\mynode[1]{A#1} and \graph { \mynode{1} -> \mynode{2} -> \mynode{3} };.
7 hours later…
8:26 AM
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9:05 AM
I really like our 404 page.
1 hour later…
10:06 AM
@Johannes_B But it's not mine: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/5262/… :)
What did I miss yesterday? :)
@PauloCereda Englishmen discussing orthography, go figure!
@egreg Oh my! How did that ever happen?! :)
@PauloCereda I didn't know there was a competition. Almost all of the are good.
@PauloCereda There was some discussion about the uppercase ß.
@PauloCereda Please see also the starred message by @cgnieder at the right
10:16 AM
@egreg Oh my! :)
@Johannes_B OH I downloaded the video right now. :)
10:29 AM
I've not been on this chat (or any other) before - it looks kind of odd - are there no threads? Anyway, I wanted to ask a question: it seems to me answers are often posted as comments. I find that quite annoying - sometimes it looks like someone's hanging on for an answer so I'll go look at the thread (although I'm not the most experienced, sometimes I do know an answer), but find that 15 people have told them what to do in the comments. What is the etiquette?
@FionaSmith Hello, welcome to the chat, make yourself at home. :)
This might be an interesting read:
Q: Why do people answer in comments?

fbmdBrowsing TeX.SE, I have noticed that very frequently people provide answers to a question in the question's comments. See for example BibTeX error "inputenc Error: Unicode char \u8: not set up for use with LaTeX" Is there any package for LaTeX dealing with a database? How to correctly set up ...

10:43 AM
@FionaSmith If you find that I'm the guilty party (I often am), please ping me with another comment or use my comment to provide an answer: hereby I grant you the privilege. ;-) This frequently happens because the OP forgets to ping when replying the comment.
@egreg Beware, for David will steal your tick. :)
Thanks for that link @PauoloCereda, and @egreg yes you are one of the guilty ones, ha ha! One issue is when you start out you don't have any privileges so you can't comment even if you wanted to - I had this problem on StackOverflow - I wanted to post a comment to an answer but I had to post a whole new answer, which I felt had to be more complete, and I felt it took some of the credit away from the person who had helped me.
@FionaSmith Now you should be able to comment any post. ;-)
@PauloCereda I didn't grant him the privilege!
11:01 AM
@egreg why thank you ;-) Now, talking of comments, if someone can just help out the poor chap who wants a weird bibliography style, I could get back to my thesis!
@FionaSmith What question is it?
Q: Putting Serial Numbers in References

Neeraj BhanotI wish to have a citation in the text as follows: However with growing sustainability concerns (Madu, 2001), organizations need to undertake suitable measures to improve their sustainability aspects (Amrina & Yusof, 2011). And in respective references, I need a list of references along ...

11:21 AM
@egreg I recieved my moka just now, so off to cleaning and some first time use preparations :) hopefully my hario hand mill will come in today as well so I don't have to buy different grinds of coffee for my coffee makers ;)
11:36 AM
@hugovdberg Don't use expensive coffee the first times: it will taste bad anyway. ;-)
@egreg I could sell some good coffee at reasonable prices. :)
11:51 AM
A: How to write a single Hiragana character in latex

MalipivoThis example works with lua-, xe-, pdf- and with plain latex (followed by dvips and ps2pdf conversion). % run: *latex mal-japanese.tex % or % latex mal-japanese.tex % dvips mal-japanese.dvi % ps2pdf mal-japanese.ps \documentclass{article} \pagestyle{empty} \begin{document} % pdftex testfont % -->...

I could suggest arara to Malipivo, according to his instructions in the comments. :)
@PauloCereda protect ducks all over the world of course ;-)
@Johannes_B Best part. :)
12:43 PM
str->str_pok |= SP_FBM;                     /* deep magic */
s = (unsigned char*)(str->str_ptr);         /* deeper magic */
             -- Larry Wall in util.c from the perl source code

paulo@alexandria ~$
@JosephWright @tohecz I don't want to heat up the discussin about TL in Debian again, and without any opinion: Is the compiling/building process supposed to happen once by Debian, or by every user? Somehow i failed to see that point being stated clearly.
@Johannes_B Officially by Debian (now, AFAIK). However, there're strong pressures to move this to the user side. (A very weak lower bound I extimated on the time this would take for TeXLive on my computer is 24 hours)
12:58 PM
@tohecz Are there some energy companies involved?
@Johannes_B No, there're some religious (yes, open source in their point of view is religion) extremists, that's all.
@tohecz Every user doing the same task, seems ambitioous. Need to plant a tree, to preserve some oxygen.
@Johannes_B sorry I'm at work => no videos
2:02 PM
@egreg I used the cheapest coffee I have, and it actually tasted better than from my drip maker, so I guess that needs some cleaning too :P
@hugovdberg Quite possible.
2:22 PM
The TUG office must \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} when generating labels. All correspondence I get has accents messed up. :)
@PauloCereda Americans are notorious for not understanding accents. ;-)
@egreg ooh! :)
@PauloCereda With the notable exceptions of DEK and bb, of course.
@egreg Ah yes. :)
@PauloCereda The radio is playing the chorus that starts with the immortal verses
Gloria all'Egitto e ad Iside
Che il sacro suol protegge;
Al Re che il Delta regge
Inni festosi alziam!
Vieni, o guerriero vindice,
Vieni a gioir con noi;
Sul passo degli eroi
I lauri e i fior versiam!
The “libretti” of Verdi's operas are terrible. Just like the music, I'd say.
Maybe not this one in particular.
2:32 PM
@egreg Yay! :)
@PauloCereda It's the “Marcia trionfale” in “Aida”. Here's it at the Arena di Verona: youtube.com/watch?v=hVyN247xR3o
@egreg That's a big pyramid. :)
@PauloCereda It's probably the biggest stage in the world. Operas are performed in the summer and Aida is always among them.
@egreg Oh my!
2:38 PM
@egreg Surely a place I should visit when in Italy. :)
@PauloCereda I always say they should remove that old pile of stones and make a modern mall. ;-)
@egreg LOL
This is what remains of the arena in Padova
@egreg ooh!
@PauloCereda But inside it we have the Cappella degli Scrovegni, with the frescoes by Giotto.
If you notice, the angels are crying
2:47 PM
@egreg :(
@PauloCereda One of the most innovative cycle of pictures in the history of art.
@egreg I've been there last year, unfortunately had only a couple of hours so didn't get to see much, had a nice presentation at the "centro sperimentale per modelli idraulici di Voltabarozzo" though :)
@hugovdberg Not exactly the same, in artistic terms.
@egreg artistically not, although it took some craftsmanship to build that huge model of the venice lagoon ;)
3:34 PM
Does anyone know if editor = {{DIN Deutsches Institut für Norm e.V.}} being set in an mbox (or similar) by biblatex, or can it be broken on two lines?
@Johannes_B there's no reason why it would be boxed, but I can be wrong
@tohecz In a german forum it came up, editor is a name list. Since DIN isn't a name it is grouped and the whole thing is broken to the next line.
@Johannes_B it really gets to the next line as a whole?
@Johannes_B Can you make a small example?
@tohecz yes
3:42 PM
@Johannes_B strange
@egreg not small, but the guy has some strange layout definitions.
I think, type publisher would be more appropriate.
3:58 PM
@Johannes_B biblatex uses \penalty\value{lownamepenalty}\space between the words in the editor field and the normal value of lownamepenalty is 25, which makes those space unavailable for line breaks when \raggedright is in force.
@Johannes_B Add \setcounter{lownamepenalty}{0}` to the definition of \myraggedright
@egreg Wow, that works. You are amazing.
@Johannes_B You owe me a beer. ;-)
@egreg I surely do.
@Johannes_B What kind of beer in your neighborhoods?
@egreg Depends on the taste of the person ;-)
@egreg I like Jever, it is very dry (herb in german)
@egreg Freiberger is also drinkable, but that is more than a coincidence, since i live in Freiberg :-)
And now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frikadeller
4:13 PM
People have told me I should drink Stella Artois.
@Johannes_B Heute Bratwurst für mich ;-)
@PauloCereda The Wife Beater? :P
@hugovdberg Properly grilled outside, or in a frying pan?
@PauloCereda seriously though, it's nice, although I'm more into the more special Belgian beers, such as Leffe or Duvel, or the Dutch trappist beer La Trappe :)
@Johannes_B Saxony? Cool, I like it! I've been in Dresden, Leipzig, Meißen and in the Sächsische Schweiz
Sorry to eavesdrop but @PauloCereda, why??? I can't imagine anyone thinking Stella is worth recommendation. It is, in the end, just dull old lager, with enough alcohol to make you drunk more quickly than you'd like!
4:19 PM
@PauloCereda They told you wrong.
@Johannes_B unfortunately the weather is not too good today over here, so in a frying pan I'm afraid ;-) but I do like a properly grilled better
@Johannes_B from a frying pan it's always much too greasy :(
@hugovdberg LOL
@FionaSmith I don't drink to much beer, but never had that one. :) A couple of friends told me to try it, but it's insanely expensive, and I don't think any beer is worth that price. :) And there are some good Brazilian ones, so I'm good for now. :)
@hugovdberg If I had to go with imported beer, I'll probably stick to the German ones, I guess (there was an Italian one that was very good, but I can't remember its name).
@PauloCereda but you should definitely try a Wieckse Witte if you're ever in the neighbourhood, originally brewed in Maastricht (I was born close to that brewery), and now in Den Bosch (or, as it's officially called 's-Hertogenbosch should you want to look it up :P) actually again close to my house. It's a really refreshing witbier type wheat beer, especially nice on a hot summer day :)
All this talk about Bratwurst and beer is making me hungry and thirsty. Good thing that I'm finished with work for today in about 10 minutes
@hugovdberg When in Europe, I'll probably have to get drunk in almost every single country. :)
4:27 PM
@PauloCereda I quite liked Birra Moretti while I was in Italy last year :)
@PauloCereda well, if you bring some Brazilian drinks you're welcome to compare them with some Dutch drinks :) although I guess most Dutch drinks aren't originally very Dutch, I guess jenever is the most Dutch you can get and I don't really like it :P
I seem to remember drinking Antarctica in Brazil, but mostly because I liked the name... Personally I think most fizzy lagers are very similar and very dull. Unless it's super hot, I recommend hunting out darker beers, whatever country you visit! Not stout though. Ugh!
5:05 PM
I have a problem with my texlive
anybody to help???
@subhamsoni depends on your problem
I have installed texlive on my linux machine (ubuntu)
it didnt detect
in the terminal
(i installed using the iso)
Then I added the path where texlive is installed
@subhamsoni so not the aptitude version?
it is creating a lot of problems
a lot of packages seem to be missing
and tlmgr is not available there
Then I added the path where texlive is installed
I was able to run texlive from the terminal
@subhamsoni what do you mean tlmgr is not available? as in sudo tlmgr fails? or even just tlmgr?
5:10 PM
it seems that I need a deb package for tlmgr
@subhamsoni what does locate tlmgr return?
I removed it completly
I dont remember
Now I am having texlive of iso
Here When I run tlmgr
I get this
@subhamsoni definitely not, tlmgr is explicitly excluded from the debian installation, it should come with the texlive installation otherwise
no @hugovdberg I had problems and so I had to go for the iso
now the iso version of texlive , tlmgr says
You don't have permission to change the installation in any way,
specifically, the directory /usr/local/texlive/2013/tlpkg/ is not writable.
Please run this program as administrator, or contact your local admin.
Running as root
I get this
I ran tlmgr install vsmono
No command 'tlmgr' found, did you mean:
Command 'rlmgr' from package 'qdbm-util' (universe)
Command 'vlmgr' from package 'qdbm-util' (universe)
tlmgr: command not found
@subhamsoni please post your commands exactly as you type them, preferably between backticks (`) to make it clear what you tried
5:16 PM
As a user
tlmgr install vsmono
As root
You don't have permission to change the installation in any way,
specifically, the directory /usr/local/texlive/2013/tlpkg/ is not writable.
Please run this program as administrator, or contact your local admin.
@subhamsoni as a normal user you probably don't have write permissions on the installation path, as root you need to make sure the installation path is in the search path as well
As root I tried this
I get the following
No command 'tlmgr' found, did you mean:
Command 'rlmgr' from package 'qdbm-util' (universe)
Command 'vlmgr' from package 'qdbm-util' (universe)
tlmgr: command not found
The same command as before
Then I went to location where tlmgr is
if you changed ~/.bashrc or similar to add the installation path for your normal user root won't find it, you need either /root/.bashrc or /etc/environment (the latter changes the path for all users in all shells)
I added the path in ~/.bashrc
@subhamsoni then try adding it to a file the root user reads on starting a shell session, and if you want to run it as sudo tlmgr (which I recommend over su root) then this is the trick I used to get it working
5:23 PM
@subhamsoni I would also recommend to add a link /usr/local/texlive/current which points to /usr/local/texlive/2013
Then, when TL 2014 comes out (in two months or so), you'll only need to adjust a single symlink
@Christoph that's a nice one, should do that myself as well :)
I often forget which settings I changed in which place
So I try to minimize
5:44 PM
@egreg It's nice here, right? If you happen to be here again, just say a word. I still owe you a beer ;-)
@hugovdberg That's right. I hate that.
6:08 PM
@Johannes_B Really nice; I love Dresden, but also the surroundings: the Elben valley is incredible.
6:24 PM
@egreg There are many nice places on earth. Some are just outside the door. Sometimtes, the best place in the world is home. :-)
@Johannes_B so true :) most things foreign are beautiful, until you get used to it.. but I still love to sit outside my backdoor enjoying the bathing in the sun while enjoying a nice meal/beverage :) Although I like my parents' garden much better, as it's not in the city, but close to tbe forest, much quiter over there :)
6:58 PM
@cgnieder Saw Kröger-Vink being documented. Didn't you see comment in the tex-file i sent you? :-) The interstitial chlorine ion has one additional charge.
@cgnieder Thanks for adding the functionality
@Johannes_B ? I must have missed it... in any case it's the fault of wikipedia from where I stole the examples :p
@Johannes_B :)
@cgnieder Are you sure?
Kröger–Vink notation is set of conventions used to describe electric charge and lattice position for point defect species in crystals. It is primarily used for ionic crystals and is particularly useful for describing various defect reactions. It was proposed by F. A. Kröger and H. J. Vink. Schottky and Frenkel Defects Schottky Pairs A Schottky defect is an intrinsic point defect that creates vacancies on both the cation and anion sub-lattices. This defect occurs in ionic crystals when one positively charged cation and one negatively charged anion leave the lattice simultaneously, result...
@cgnieder \mathrm{Cl}^{'}_\mathrm{i} = a chlorine anion on an interstitial site, with singular negative charge.
Wow, it copies the TeX-thing
@Johannes_B I have \ch{Cl_i'} which is the same, isn't it? Maybe I do miss something completely different?
7:06 PM
@cgnieder \ch{Cl_i''} in V4.5
@Johannes_B Ah: a typo in the manual! I'll fix it for the next update
@cgnieder Thanks :-)
@cgnieder Sorry, if i was misleading you.
@Johannes_B someone provided the spanish translations of the GHS statements so the next update is soon to come. May be too late to still get in TL2013, though
@cgnieder TL13 will be frozen on Thu
@Johannes_B then definitely too late
7:11 PM
Or better, the last build we be on wednesday night, and the testing for 14 begins
@cgnieder You were thinking i was talking about the original KV question here on TeX.SX, right? I ust saw it.
@Johannes_B no: I thought you meant the test files. Maybe the error was in there, too, I can't remember... quite possible that I copied the examples in the manual from there...
@cgnieder It was in the testfile you sent me, i added a comment to that file an sent it back to you.
@Johannes_B So I did miss the comment :)
@cgnieder It is just a simple typo. Nobody cares :-)
@Johannes_B except for me now that I know it's there ;)
7:17 PM
@cgnieder :-)
@cgnieder I'm not a chemist, but isn't a positively charged cation and a negatively charged anion both superfluous? AFAIK a cation is per definition positively charged and an anion per definition negatively charged, right?
@hugovdberg KV uses relativ charges
@hugovdberg Actually I never used Kröger-Vink notation (haven't even heard fabout it until recently) which means I can't judge if does make sense/is useful/...
@hugovdberg It is often used by defect chemists (if this is the right term). If you are developing SOFCs, it is useful.
@cgnieder I saw your answer on Kröger-Vink-Notation and flagged it for moderator attention, such that it can be marked, that the question led to a new feature. Do you know how much rep. I need to mark it myself or is this reserved for guys carrying ♦ in their user name?
7:33 PM
@Johannes_B ah ok, after reading a bit further I get the relative charges, although that's not at all clear from the paragraph on the Schottky effect, if you hadn't told me I'd still think it's superfluous over there
@hugovdberg I oncee heard a lecture, where a lot of KV was used. But i cannot find the pdfs anywhere. And my brain deleted everything but the metadata of the lecture. I know where it was, i know who it was, but i can't remember any contents :-/
@HenriMenke I think the »new feature«/»new package« thing is just a quote edited into the question. Or has that changed?
@Johannes_B reminds me of many lectures I heard :)
@cgnieder :-)
@cgnieder Done! Thank you.
@Johannes_B I asked the same question on the talkpage of that article, perhaps someone over there knows enough to clarify that part for laymen ;-)
now I'm off to bed, exam tomorrow, see you guys later :) (sorry for hitting enter instead of shift ;-))
7:49 PM
@hugovdberg Good luck and see you soon
@Johannes_B Markus Kohm has written something about the Dante meeting: komascript.de/node/1813 (in German)
@cgnieder Thanks. I'll take a look at it in a few minutes
8:38 PM
@hugovdberg In bocca al lupo, as we say in these cases.
8:51 PM
@cgnieder Very interesting to read.
@Johannes_B I thought so, too. A pity that I couldn't make it to the meeting...
@cgnieder Same here. Maybe next year. Markus was describing it in a really nice way, matching faces and names.
@Johannes_B the autumn meeting is in Karlsruhe which is less than a hundred km from my place: must be a sign
@cgnieder definitely :-) But i had to drive many more km
9:30 PM
so, nobody has any suggestions re: the names ismetapost.{mf,mp} and is_metapost in tex.stackexchange.com/a/170876/1189 ?
10:05 PM
@cgnieder ooh a lot of German words put together. What do I do? :)
10:20 PM
@tohecz Not all Debian people are idiots; some of us do get carried away sometimes though. The actual policy only requires that we have the source code (that is, the preferred form for modification) and build tools, not that we actually rebuild things. I have no idea where bastien got the idea that rebuilding is actually required, not just a "best practice".
10:31 PM
@SamB yes, but how do you know the build tools work unless you use them?
10:53 PM
@FaheemMitha Well, maybe they don't always continue to work, but if the maintainer is in the same boat I think we can live with that.
@SamB Are you a Debian Developer?
@FaheemMitha no, but others on #debian-qa agreed with me that policy does not require building everything from source
@SamB ok. It is true, I have not seen anything in policy saying that. Perhaps someone should tell Norbert. He was not happy.
I actually posted a comment to his blog post about it already; he doesn't seem to have noticed.
@SamB there does seem to be a lot of pushing in that direction, though, even if policy doesn't explicitly require it. I've noticed it too. E.g. data files in R.
11:00 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about the data files in R
I mean it sounds like that is the preferred form for modification ...
@SamB depends on the data file.
@SamB what does policy say about this exactly?
From section 2.1:
 2. Source Code
      The program must include source code, and must allow distribution
      in source code as well as compiled form.
@SamB Oh, is that all?
well, there's also 4.3. Changes to the upstream sources,
4.14. Source package handling: `debian/README.source', and 7.8. Additional source packages used to build the binary - `Built-Using'
and of course the copyright file ...
but considering the texlive packaging isn't built all-the-way-upstream tarballs anyway, I guess only README.source and copyright are really relevant there
11:50 PM
@SamB Thanks for the references.

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