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12:07 AM
Um... So far, @jmac is off to a fast start. I really like how he acted quickly on a few low quality questions. Keep up the good work!
1:05 AM
@JimG. I am doing my best to handle the flags, but there are going to be growing pains. If you (or anyone else) finds that I took action that you have questions about (or that I clearly screwed up), please ping me and I'll do my best to apologize/explain/correct as necessary.
1:16 AM
Congrats to the new mods!
1:36 AM
@panoptical Thanks!
2 hours later…
3:30 AM
Hey, just wanted to drop on to congratulate the new mods! Congrats @jmac, I knew you would be a great mod.
Also congrats to @Monica and @jmort.
Thanks @hichris123 and all!
@hichris123 thank you! I hope I will be more productive on the site tomorrow. (Today I was occupied with work-related stuff, ironically.)
and @NickC, @jim, @rarity, @jcmeloni, thanks for all you did to help bring this site to graduation. You all laid the foundation for where we are today, and your work is much appreciated!
2 hours later…
5:56 AM
@jmac nice blue!
6:07 AM
@RhysW Thanks Rhys! I didn't realize that changed too
@hichris123 Thanks! I'm doing my best to catch up and hit the ground running.
1 hour later…
7:16 AM
Unilaterally closed this question. If any of you are able to understand/improve it, please have at it and toss a reopen vote on it:
Hey BAP, and welcome to The Workplace! Your question is quite difficult to read at the moment and it looks like from the comments your question isn't actually about how to share your experience, but on how to deal with a short 3-month job on your resume. Could you take a look at this question to see if it answers what you're looking for? If not, would you please edit your question to be more clear about how it differs, or what your specific question is? Thanks in advance! — jmac ♦ 38 secs ago
2 hours later…
9:15 AM
@jmac I gave it a try, but now I'm not sure if this isn't a dup of several other questions...
Q: Who to communicate experience in a resume properly?

BAPI want to prepare a resume: I finished my M.Sc. in 2012 and have 7 months as internship experience in java from June 2013 to December 2013. From January 2014 to now I am working as a .net developer. This is my first job related to my graduation. Where ever I attended an interview, the first ques...

@CMW If it's a dupe, point it out in the comments so that reviewers can determine whether it is and whether to reopen it. If you come to the conclusion that it probably is, just flag it with a custom link to the dupe and I'll take a look and adjust the close reason if need be.
I'm still searching for possible dups. It just seems familiar to me
@CMW If you find it, feel free to point it out. If not, I'm sure we'll survive.
Yeah, definitely. I only dumped it in here, in case one of the others goes "Well of course that's a dup of X"
I mentioned this possible dup to the OP in the comments. I hope he will get around to reading it and responding.
Duly noted (and appreciated!)
I'm going to do my best to do stuff to try to help out site quality, but the bulk of the job of editing and commenting is going to have to come from the community still. So anything you guys can do to help is well appreciated on my part. I was not prepared for the flag clearing duties and what that entailed, so I'm a bit behind on the browsing, commenting, editing portion of my daily routine.
9:33 AM
I think I can speak for all other 3 candidates when I say, we will go on doing our best, to support the community with the tools we have access to.
@CMW Yeah, I'm sorry you didn't make it. We are growing quickly, so hopefully you will participate in the next election to help out. I was really surprised by the results, and am really appreciative of the turnout and the participation of the community regardless of the outcome.
I'm actually fine with the way it turned out. You sure will make a great moderator crew. The only possible downside that there may be is that we have two users less, who can delete vote, than we could have. But @RhysW and I will make sure we will have that privilege the old-fashioned way soon :)
@CMW I'm not too worried about the deletion thing. Now posts will get tossed in to the low quality review queue when flagged, and this should make it so that the community can vote to mark it as low quality and we can delete based on community action if the community members aren't enough.
(let's give a nice huzzah to @Shog for implementing that by the way)
(or rather, to the SE team who probably implemented it, but to Shog for championing it in the priority list at any rate)
I read about that proposal yesterday. Is that how it works already?
I thought that was still discussion
I am a bit fuzzy on the details too, but I think it is either in testing, or deployed sparingly, or will be deployed in 6-8 weeks
9:45 AM
Or are you talking about something else than the "getting rid of the 10K-tools flagging queue in favor of the LQP queue" topic?
I have totally different tools now, so I have no good way to check, but I'll look in to it and get back to you.
10:36 AM
Q: Stack Overflow is not yet a vast wasteland: a history of moderator tooling

Shog9Warning: this is long, rambling and extremely boring. I'm writing it because I tend to get a lot of questions regarding the rationale for changes to the moderator tooling on SO, and I'm hoping to have something to point to next time. If you already know all there is to know about this - or just d...

isn't it amazing how much thought, effort and care is invested into tuning of Stack Overflow. Every little detail tells us how much SE team is focused on it: title starts with Stack overflow, and it's tagged stackoverflow. No other site is named or referred, except for a brief nod to "working with very small Stack Exchange sites"...
...Per my reading, this sends a pretty strong signal to smaller site communities - if you want particular issue resolved, first thing to try it to connect it to SO, to leverage attention it gets. @Chad given above I am even more convinced than before that SO connection is worth pursuing as a way to address our issues with lemming / "pack mentality" voting. Whatever way they will find to address such a voting for SO, will also have a great chance to work for us here...
Mar 13 at 5:40, by gnat
...no need to waste time convincing Shog or whoever there. No need to invest effort into lengthy meta posts. No rep points to loose. Not much time to spend. Just make it a habit to open hot list once or twice a day, pick SO stuff from there and do the lemming ride. Every upvote you cast doing it, makes a step towards educating people about the pain we feel here...
@gnat Rather: You want an issue in your site fixed? Cause the same issue in SO and wait.
@CMW that sounds a viable approach! :)
FWIW there are couple nice SO questions in the list now, with multiple answers like at Workplace. Why oh why SO visitors upvote so little?
god. smart users are the worst!
:D j/k
jmac posted a link to that question a couple hours back that was very hard to understand and closed it
now I edited it and discovered a duplicate which I mentioned in the comments. it still stayed closed.
now the OP deleted that question, took my edited version and re-posted it :D
10:44 AM
@CMW but it remains a dupe? I mean, it was your edit that revealed duplication, it is there in reposted question and dupe-reasoning applies?
It was never closed as a dupe originally. jmac hadn't had the chance to change the close reason yet. So, yep, it remains a dupe. I voted accordingly
Q: Resume - stuck on experience

BAPI want to prepare a resume , I finished M.Sc. in 2012, and have 7 months as internship experience in java from June 2013 toDecember 2013, And From January 2014 to till now I am working as a .net developer. This is my first job related to my graduation .Where ever I attended an interview, the fir...

if yes, you just flag/vote to close and it will roll the same way, only with asker being maybe one step closer to the ban (because of question deletion)
do we have those ban scripts here after all?
I thought yesterday somebody said that we didn't
@CMW I think we do, it's only easier to circumvent as no registration is required to ask. If it gets really troublesome, there's always an option to request for registration as it was done about a year ago at Programmers
11:16 AM
Just an FYI for users flagging things as 'Very Low Quality'. In general, I am declining the flags if the post is workable and not a stream of gibberish or other truly low quality stuff. Especially if the post already is below zero score and getting tossed in the low quality queue. So you may want to downvote, comment, edit, and try to handle it as a community. If you really think it requires the attention of a mod, feel free to flag, but don't be shocked if it's declined.
@jmac: Good to hear. I think that's what you should be doing.
(with 'not an answer' flags, if the thing attempts to answer the question but is a ball of opinion, I am declining the flags. If you want a post notice for 'back it up' or 'longer rather than shorter answers', ask for it with a custom flag indicating as much and I'll take a look, again, don't be shocked if your flag is declined if the question can be handled by the community)
11:43 AM
@jmac does negative score push post into LQ queue (that is, without flags)? I saw your discussion with Shog in MSO comments but couldn't make up my mind on whether this is the case
@Gnat, I'll check and get back to you.
11:59 AM
compared to SO standards (I have 1K+ helpful flags there, for the record), I would say we're using NAA/VLQ flags very incorrectly, but in the absence of adequate System for Dealing with Poor Answers this "incorrect" usage feels surprisingly fairgnat Feb 27 at 18:59
Especially with answers that attract lots of sympathy upvotes, that are low but not very low quality and maybe but not really answering the question, I think there is no way around flags. Or is there?
in The Whiteboard, Feb 27 at 6:24, by gnat
about time to stop the madness when single site forces its norms at the rest of the network, as if it's the same when answer quality can be verified with computer and with human brain only (hint: Whiteboard doesn't have compiler)
@CMW the only long term solution is considerable more non-chat regulars being interested in downvoting/commenting on these sorts of posts
Or maybe a different way of dealing with poor answers, like gnat mentioned
but that requires recreating the issue on SO, which might prove hard
Your call, @gnat: is 147 times in 180 days, out of 3,053 posts, significant? Worth name-calling, exclusionist tactics, circling the wagons to prevent? — Shog9 ♦ 18 hours ago
^^^ vote rapings that happen almost daily (and are considered okay by SE) make me suspect that this ain't gonna work (not that I will stop downvoting / flagging because of that)
@Shog9 well whatever, just keep in mind that if it fails this time, there won't be an excuse about folks wanted this or that. If it is going to become "self help group of commiserating users", this will be only over my rep and flags — gnat 4 hours ago
yesterday, by gnat
@enderland I for one am not going to give up no matter how uphill this battle is. I've got 2,5K rep meaning I can vote at least 2375 low quality answers until it's over. and when (if) it's over, no one will tell me I didn't try
12:14 PM
Is there an answer in this post I'm not understanding?
A: How do I politely tell my manager I don't want to work under someone

GregI agree with the above poster that expressing any kind of preference is more likely to land you in the position you don't want. All that matters to people in positions of power is making displays of power. They will then formulate their plan of action around that act. For example if the po...

12:28 PM
@CMW Again, I'm not positive on the specific details. I'll check up and get back to you. Not an answer flags are fine if the answer really doesn't even attempt to address the question being asked. I strongly advise taking a look at the question too, to see if there's an issue there, but if it's just the answer, feel free to issue a 'not an answer' flag for us to take a look at.
@gnat I said this to Alex M. too, but I would appreciate it if you'd refrain from using the term 'vote raping' in favor of something a little less ... objectionable ... if possible.
12:48 PM
Is it a bad thing that every time I get a +10 for one of my answers on SO, I am more excited than a +100 on meta.so or here?
Then I look at the answer that got upvoted and cry a little because of the lack of actual benefit that it provides long-term and wonder why it got an upvote.
@jmac I'm asking the crowd, not you specifically. Somebody declined my NAA flag though.
@CMW Really? That was probably me (by probably I mean: almost certainly). Let me take another look, sorry if I mucked that up.
@jmac I occasionally get a +10 in the top bar and then am confused why my rep displayed there didn't change. Goes to show how much time is spend in other corners of SE
@jmac I might really be misunderstand/misinterpreting something.
I am not good with these tools, let me try to find your flag.
Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Looks like it was me who declined it an hour ago.
I would help, but I don't see links to specific flags anywhere in my list
12:52 PM
@jmac no problem - give me that better term and I'll be happy to use it instead (I tried to figure it myself but couldn't come up with alternative)
@gnat "drive by voting" or "excessive exuberant optimistic voting" or anything else you please that isn't intended to be offensive to victims of a rather horrific crime. I'm not picky about what you call it, just don't call it what you have been please!
@CMW Okay, it's been handled. Apologies for the mis-handled flag. Definitely wasn't an answer from my perspective.
@jmac I like the "e-squared-oh-vee" :D
@jmac No worries
For reference, like that answer that @CMW linked above, if I get a flag on an answer that I feel is clearly not an answer, I am fine with deleting it (with comment letting the answerer know that I will undelete it if they care to make an edit to answer the question posed). I will decline anything that is answering the question even tangentially. Again. Judgment call. Feel free to call me out on it if you think I totally botched it (or to make a meta post about it)
I will meta post you like crazy, don't worry:-)
(Kidding, obviously)
1:18 PM
@jmac sorry I fail to see how this reflects the fact of "overwriting" negative score given to post by community "insiders"? FWIW I use this to refer a particular, specific voting pattern, described by Shog as: "Cases where the insiders' votes would've brought a post's score < 0, but outsider votes were present in sufficient quantity to make the post's score positive: 147"
Mar 27 at 22:10, by Shog9
Cases where the insiders' votes would've brought a post's score < 0, but outsider votes were present in sufficient quantity to make the post's score positive: 147
^^^ looking for a term to describe above
Bandwagon Voting, Vote Hoarding, Mass-Sympathy Voting
1:39 PM
@CMW I appeared to vote, as I promissed!
@HugoRocha Hey Hugo! How goes?
Busy as hell, tough month ongoing and ahead!
Switching computers, the city is in chaos because of the cup..
taking over new projects, lots of things going on. But thanks for asking. :)
Now got to go again... see you all when this is finished! o/
wow. busy person
so busy
much work
such hugo
(that line yesterday was referring to how the chat suddenly went quiet - and you weren't even there to kill the conversation ;-) )
1:41 PM
@PaulDonny this (likely just like drive-by voting) adds cases when community "insiders" vote along with outsiders, different from a pattern I am refering to
2:06 PM
@gnat If you don't like my wording, please feel free to come up with something else that suits your fancy. I really don't think it's appropriate to equate voting on an SE site to actual physical rape. They aren't close. And linking the two really makes light of the real act that happens to real people. No matter how harmful you may view non-community upvotes, I really hope that we both agree that any harm pales in comparison to the actual act of rape. That's why I ask you not to use the term
all right
Thanks. I'm not trying to rain in on the parade, I just feel strongly that the language we use affects the way we think and interact. I am not trying to trivialize what you think is a serious issue, and not trying to censor what you have to say. I just want you to think about the words you use to describe it, and preferably use something else.
(this is all said as a normal person and is personal opinion unrelated to any sort of mod-related duties, I said the same to Alex several weeks ago for using the same term)
2:20 PM
@jmac - any chance you would be willing to make an as a mod answer on this question: meta.workplace.stackexchange.com/q/2524/16
@Chad It looks like we already have one:
A: Is this a "Bad" answer and what should be done with it?

jmort253Workplace SE is about answering questions about problems in the workplace. These problems, in order to be answered completely in Q&A format, must have plenty of detail in order to fully answer the question. Our help center guidelines on how to answer clarify that alternative solutions are accepta...

@jmac so is that a no?
I would note that I pointed out that the criteria he set out in the post is not met but the answer but no further discussion on that
@Chad It isn't an 'I absolutely won't answer' but it is an 'I won't answer now'. It's 11:30pm, and I can't muster the concentration to read through it all and formulate something at the moment.
The Cliff's Notes version of my likely answer going from what I've read up on this when I originally went through the post is that it's been edited to take away many of your objections, and while I can understand your frustration I don't think it's something the mods should be handling (I mean, I'm happy to vote on it, but I can't see myself unilaterally deleting it given its current state and the willingness of the answerer to address concerns)
But again, I'll put it on my 'to-do' list and take another look to see if I'm missing something when I've had my beauty sleep. That okay?
2:56 PM
@jmac I didnt say it had to be now...
@Chad Sorry 'bout that. My misinterpretation.
@jmac Actually I hadnt seen the latest revision. I agree it has been improved greatly.
3:15 PM
@jmac Maybe this would be a better place to commit then:
Q: What should the "Back it up" policy look like for The Workplace

enderlandNearly two years to the day since "back it up" was introduced to Workplace, there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding what the principle looks like on The Workplace. Here is all our on-topic says about this: Please note that answers should be backed up either with a reference, or expe...

@Chad Great post there
@PaulDonny thanks
I think the thing enderland said regarding it being too long might bite your blurb but honestly I don't think people will read it until their answer is flagged/downvoted/closed/deleted and are referred to it and at that point how long it is doesn't matter
3:45 PM
The banners go on the answers... like here: workplace.stackexchange.com/a/22234/16 at the very bottom it says:This post does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this post by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. That is the type of blurb i was talking about
7 hours later…
10:43 PM
If anyone can clean this question up or comment to let the asker know how, it'd be much appreciated:
Q: Understanding the politics in a re-hire

New AlexandriaI was asked by someone, who was a long-time inside contractor, to give them advice on how to be re-hired. They left on certain terms, being cut one day and having no contact with their former boss. HR policy is 'do not talk about fight club' so whether they have a negative record is uncertain. ...

(it is quite long, very structured, but difficult to grok)

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