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2:02 AM
I am on mobile now so before I forget, I want to suggest for synonym of or vice versa. And remind myself to look at too. Gnight anyone awake...
 
2:18 AM
Lenin was a mushroom. haha... when Kuryuokhin shows Lenins, armo(u)red car under ground... proving that it's a (mushroom) spawn..... It's must be steel nervers to tell such dilelirium for 30 min or over with abs serious countenance
 
2:30 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Kuryokhin                The Saint-Petersburg Annual International Music Festival SKIF (Sergey Kuriokhin International Festival) is named after him. Kuryokhin festivals annually take place in Berlin, Amsterdam and New York.

In 2009 the Sergey Kuryokhin Foundation and Center established an annual award in the field of the modern art.
He died of a rare heart condition, cardiac sarcoma, aged 42 in 1996, and was laid to rest in the Komarovo Cemetery, near the tomb of Anna Akhmatova.
 
Kit
@aedia And I think we should re-title the mass nouns v. count nouns question you linked, so it is easier to find.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:42 AM
20
A: "I am drinking ice cream" or "I am eating ice cream"?

phenryYou are eating ice cream. You also eat soup, applesauce, yogurt, and many other things. The "food" category is not defined by chewability.

How did this get +20?
I mean, whatever, but it is odd that the question is only +2; the other answers are +2; and that answer is +20.
 
 
3 hours later…
Jez
7:39 AM
0
Q: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

JezA big issue seems to be that, owing to the nature of the kinds of questions that get asked on EL&U, questions that may be interpreted as 'unprofessional' or 'embarrassing' may appear as 'hot questions' on the StackExchange multicollider (dropdown in the top-left corner of the screen), as well...

Well that's annoying. Why are people voting my question down?
It might be a bit more than people want, but Reg's answer has +10
my question isn't that far away
yet a bunch of people have voted it down!
 
8:22 AM
0
Q: which one is more British : car hire or rent a car

tugberkI am wondering which one is more commonly used in United Kingdom Car Hire or Rent a Car ?

 
@Jez It just means they disagree I guess...
@MrDisappointment What about it?
 
Well, I flagged as too basic (though, it wouldn't really do any good as 'general reference')
 
@MrDisappointment Why is it too basic? Would most Americans know about the difference in UK vs US usage here?
 
8:47 AM
@psmears Because the terms are so interchangeable in the sense of what is being asked that it is reasonable to assume that either and both will inevitably be used. Also, just looking at the first answer it has received, well, ...just, well.
 
@MrDisappointment It's not a good answer, for sure - a comment asking for more detail / references would go a long way.
But there is a valid question about "What are the differences in usage of hire and rent between UK and US usage". Because in the UK hire is probably more common, but rent could be substituted without much difference. But (from what I understand) in the US rent dominates in this context, and hire is used more for taking on staff. (But I'm not 100% sure about the US usage, so I'd certainly be enlightened by a good answer :) )
And that's without starting on lease ;-)
 
9:15 AM
Welcome to @waiwai933 as the latest moderator! Congrats.
 
9:52 AM
Good morning all
 
Helloes.
And yes, welcome waiwai!
 
10:10 AM
Seriously, I have no idea what Jeff wants.
Read the comments here:
10
A: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

RegDwightThe mods have previously agreed that whenever a question is dealing with an "offensive" term, we protect it as soon as we see it. Pre-emptively. So, one idea we just had in chat would be to take protected questions off the Collider (and the cross-site ads, and the Twitter feed). Wholesale. Afte...

 
Jez
Great. I didn't wanna get into this old chestnut of a debate
IMHO 'nigger' and 'n***er' are the same
 
@Jez, Neither did I but...
@RegDwight, I've been trying to catch up with all recent events by browsing through the pages of transcripts and the last meta questions and I've come to the conclusion that what is at stakes is actually the refreshing open-mindedness of EL&U.
It looks like what mods are actually being blamed for is not enforcing cultural taboos and I find that disturbing.
Am I right or am I making things up?
 
@Jez More to the point, they attract the exact same type of people.
Notably, Jeff.
 
Jez
I suspect it is a bit more work to change the code so that certain questions can be kept out of the multicollider, but really? I'm a coder and it can't be that difficult.
 
I wish I had a list of all questions that ever got multicollidered.
 
Jez
10:12 AM
Don't they have a development team whose job it is to develop this kind of thing?
If that's the argument against doing it, it's very weak
 
@AlainPannetier Close. I think Jeff's real concern is more with the impression that we give, rather than what we actually discuss
We are a book being judged by its cover
But I do not profess to be able to read Jeff's mind!
 
@Jez As far as I am concerned, at this point the fix could be enclosing the entire code in if($site != "ELU"){}.
Because I've had enough of these accusations without seeing specific examples.
 
@RegDwight Yep, specific examples (and lots of them - not so much of the "here's the one question on the site that almost validates my point") would really help
 
The best he could come up with is a) a question greenlit by the team with a far more "offensive" title, b) a question about a joke broadcast on "Friends" and c) a euphemism.
 
So I think the problem is actually hard to solve...
If EL&U should censor jokes, profanities and subject alluding to certain body parts, why do dictionaries contain entries for these?
 
Jez
10:16 AM
Are we dealing with a serious prude in Jeff, or just someone who is ultra-professional? Perhaps showing this off to investors in suits?
I can't really see why he opposes keeping certain questions out of the multicollider.
(either way)
 
"help" one way or another - if the person making the claims actually searches for the bad stuff that is supposed to be so prevalent, either they'll find it (and we'll know that yes, we need to revise the policy), or they won't (and they'll know we don't!).
 
Sure technical sites of the SE network have little opportunities to come across the problem but as sites dealing with languages are going to multiply, the pb will be more acute.
2
 
@Jez If the intended audience of this site is investors in suits, I quit.
 
Jez
maybe not this site, but SEN in general?
 
@psmears And we know how fundamentally broken the site search is. Searching for "n*****" returns "Gender neutral pronoun" as the top result.
 
10:20 AM
I think it is largely a marketing thing: a professional doctor will have no trouble treating you for a UTI, and will happily list it among the services they can provide. But when it comes to the slogan they'll use on the radio, "Come here for all your coughs & sneezes" works so much better than "Come here for all your UTI needs"...
@RegDwight That too...
 
Jeff just left a comment about "business concerns".
I am still waiting for specific examples.
And whether or not these follow, the actual issue still stands: if this is such a huge business concern for you, you don't sit on your hands for six months. You go to our meta and open a post saying, "This is a huge business concern for me".
 
@RegDwight This
 
@psmears And "you" in that case refers to someone who knows the system inside out like no one else, because he created it.
 
@RegDwight Absolutely
 
Jez
> and more importantly, the contents of the title. Note that I bolded the important bit for emphasis.
So he's obsessed with the question title, for some reason.
 
10:27 AM
@Jez Because that's all he sees.
 
Jez
'Kittens and puppies' - Why does Snoop Dogg say 'nigger' at his bitches? Isn't 'nigger' just for black trash?
 
It's freaking obvious at this point that he barely ever looks at answers.
 
Plus, I know this might be off topic because this is not strictly speaking ... English but what does "laissez les bons temps rouler" mean?
 
Jez
let the good times roll? :-)
 
@AlainPannetier You'd have to ask someone who speaks French ;)
 
10:32 AM
@Jez, You enlighten me again. That was English then. Phew... I was so scared of being off topic...
May be I should also take 40 days ... hm.. *lint* as well.
See if black bar censorship gets its way!
 
Jez
> If you have any further questions about this, feel free to email me directly.
AKA send them to /dev/null
someone else might wanna ask him for the 100th time why he is opposed to not syndicating every single title over the network; i've already tried.
 
@Jez Pretty much so, and not because I don't believe he would read them, but because of this:
yesterday, by Rhodri
@RebeccaChernoff I know. I am a local politician, I know how these things work. I also know that until/unless something happens in public, nothing has really happened.
@Jez Though in the context of that thread I do read that as, "the discussion is over at this point".
So actually, my advice would be not to reply for the time being.
Let him go to bed.
 
@Unreason has posted a very good answer here:
1
A: Is EL&U succeeding?

UnreasonI guess ultimately it is a question what do you want EL&U to become site for real specialists and experts only site for both language and linguistics 'newbies' and specialist, professionals, too I strongly disagree with Jeff's illustration of the low quality questions. Here are some reas...

 
Just finished reading.
 
10:54 AM
Hm, this looks dupish, though I am not sure:
0
Q: Is it correct to say "The reason is because ..." ?

paviumIn a statement like The weeds have grown overnight. The reason is because it rained yesterday Is "the reason is because" good grammar? Isn't it better to say The weeds have grown overnight because it rained yesterday

OT: What I just noticed, if you google for "reason because site:english.stackexchange.com", Google will put all the "why"s in bold.
In other words, in Google's eyes either "reason" or "because" equals to "why".
This is well past stemming.
 
@RegDwight Is there a way to turn all that nonsense off?
 
I dunno, use Bing?
 
One of the big reasons I switched to Google (back in the day) was that it didn't try to do too much clever stuff...
 
I wonder if Cuil is still up and running...
 
I understand how broadening the query can be helpful to some people, but quite often I know what I want to search for dammit...
 
11:02 AM
@psmears have you tried using quotation marks on your query?
 
Well, don't delete your cookies, and ten years down the line they will cleverly figure out that you, sir, are smart, and turn it off for you and you only. Until then, tough luck.
@rumtscho I applaud your answer. And your intriguing approach.
 
@rumtscho That sometimes helps - but even then it sometimes tries to be clever
 
I'm in the middle of checking stuff favorited by others, and I've already found one answer I didn't notice before.
 
@psmears theoretically, it shouldn't.
 
4
A: "The thing is, is that..."

Neil CoffeyIn the linguistics literature, they're referred to as either "double is" constructions or "thing is constructions". Various papers have been published on the subject which you should find if you Google these terms. In one possible analysis, what is happening is that they are there is effectivel...

 
11:04 AM
@regdwight I had the feeling that part of the problem is just that, SE insisting that you make the site a place for "professionals" and defining "professionals" as people who study language instead of people who use it.
 
@rumtscho I know... and usually it does help a lot, but I have seen instances where it still tries to be clever :-/
 
Actually the exact opposite of SO, which is explicitely made for people who use programming, not the ones who research it.
And then you posted the perfect question to my observation. So I felt that the community might be interested in it.
 
@rumtscho SE is just kind of ahead of itself. It took SO years to figure out a number of rather drastic measures, but they now enforce these measures across the board, even for sites that are a few months old.
 
As for the metric, it isn't perfect. It is just much better than looking for the highest voted answers.
I left out important stuff, because it was already too long to read. But you can try using other indicators as well.
 
@rumtscho Oh, I never said it was perfect :P, but it is intriguing, and I absolutely wish I had thought of it myself.
Jeff Atwood has exactly zero favorites on this site.
That kind of says it all.
 
11:11 AM
@RegDwight if you want to make it better, include the tags in which the top users are most active
And then there is the badge of giving a great answer to a terrible question. Track all occurences, no matter who got it.
 
<makes notes>
@rumtscho Sadly, we've got exactly zero of those this far.
Then again, no, not "sadly"!
 
@RegDwight Just one on our meta :)
 
@AlainPannetier — Laissez les bons temps rouler is, I believe, Cajun French and means "Let the good times roll" (as in, "let's all get shit-faced and party down"). You can hear Dr. John singing that song. Probably on YouTube.
 
It will need some fiddling to get it right, because the top users are probably most active in the tags most widely present in the site. Which again is correlated with popularity stronger than quality.
 
The absence of a single Reversal badge on this site is just further proof that we actually just kill crap with fire!
 
11:13 AM
Or Nuke From Orbit™.
 
You probably want to track the difference between the distribution of tags on the site and distribution of tags in the answers of the top users. This should account for the popularity vs. quality problem nicely.
 
Annihilate from Another Galaxy.
@rumtscho The thing is, popular tags that don't make sense to the top users just get killed sooner or later. So I would expect that discrepancy to be rather low at any given point.
But yes, I'm making notes.
 
@RegDwight I admire you for keeping the place clean. But I must admit that I find the Reversal badge awesome.
 
@rumtscho Read my nomination, then. Hold on a sec, I'll fetch it for you.
 
It is much harder to create something great out of nothing (or less than nothing) than to destroy.
 
@RegDwight and @Robusto look at this one
 
Ignore the blather, read the last three paragraphs.
 
3
Q: Is it correct to say "The reason is because ..." ?

paviumIn a statement like The weeds have grown overnight. The reason is because it rained yesterday Is "the reason is because" good grammar? Isn't it better to say The weeds have grown overnight because it rained yesterday The second form seems simpler and the words the reason is seem to ad...

 
@RegDwight I am not talking about tags which got killed because they were too dumb or something.
 
I answered, but then I realised that it seems like a Gen Ref, according to that scheme that I saw sometimes, because if you google "the reason is because" you'll get many results... What do you think?
 
11:18 AM
I mean that if the tag single-word-request is present in 10% of the question on the site but only in 5% of the answers of the top users, you can conclude that this is a topic which doesn't interest the top users
 
@rumtscho I understand what you mean, I'm just saying that some tags that were popular with everyone but the top users actually got killed.
@rumtscho Yes.
 
afk reading the nomination now
re.
 
I have been rooting for ShreevatsaR ever since. Just search the transcript. He's our prime candidate for getting that badge.
 
I can see how it got you elected. Very nice attitude.
 
@Alenanno — I looked at it. I don't have an opinion, but I didn't feel like answering. Anyway, gotta motor. Talk atcha later.
 
11:23 AM
@rumtscho The thing is, I try to actually live up to all these promises, and it's exactly this living up that gets us into trouble, it seems.
 
@Robusto see ya! :)
 
user19161
I just realised that on every question and answer there is a did you find this helpful. What is that?
 
@JasperLoy Where?
 
user19161
@Alenanno It seems to have disappeared after I logged in, and to click on yes and no you need not even be a user.
 
Ah I see
 
11:26 AM
That's interesting.
 
@Alenanno I noticed it on your meta recently too. I don't remember if before or after login.
 
Does clicking on "no" send an email to Jeff?
More to the point, does clicking on "yes" send an email to Jeff?
 
user19161
@RegDwight I think he is using this as feedback from the public.
 
First time I hear this thing exists.
 
11:28 AM
It looks like it was rolled out network wide last night (night time in the UK, anyway)
 
@RegDwight If there have been close calls for the badge, I would factor them in into the "community measure of quality" metric. Because the cases in which a grey area question is saved by a great answer are exactly where you will find out what the community values as a really great answer. A merely adequate answer wouldn't have been enough.
 
user19161
Anyway regarding the deleted question, he undeleted it, then closed it, then gave a weird reason, then changed the reason, then reopened it, then downvoted a few alright answers. :)
 
@JasperLoy what question?
 
@rumtscho Don't forget to factor in the visibility, though. Once a question is below -5, it disappears from the front page (and a few other places?), and becomes really hard to run into by accident. Which greatly diminishes the chances of the greatest answer on Earth to get noticed at all. Especially on a site that was barely half a year old at that point IIRC, with comparably very few people going around voting at any given time.
 
@RegDwight There's also the fact that questions tend to get answered very quickly (due to the relatively slow ask rate) - so a "turnaroundable" question often doesn't have time to accumulate many downvotes before someone provides an answer to redeem it...
 
user19161
11:34 AM
5
Q: Meaning of "I've gotten over X recently", where X is a tool

René NyffeneggerI came across the phrase "I've gotten over [tool] recently" in an article written by someone who had tested the tool. From the article's context, it seemed that the author was not particularly fond of the tool and that therefore the phrase means something like "I stopped using [tool] recently". I...

 
@psmears Yes. People are often hesitant to downvote questions that have awesome answers.
 
And I can't blame them for that.
 
@RegDwight Now this is a point I hadn't thought of.
 
@JasperLoy thanks
 
11:35 AM
@rumtscho Because, after all, no matter how rubbish the question is, without it the awesome answer wouldn't exist.
 
Kit
Morning
 
Hi KITT.
 
morning, Kit
 
Kit
@RegDwight *Not affiliated with Knight Industries.
 
F'x
@RegDwight now that's unfair
now I've got this image stuck in my head
 
11:37 AM
Don't hassle the Hoff!
 
Kit
@Fx NO! Stop!
 
But then, you can also look at downvoted questions which haven't yet disappeared from the front page, with highly upvoted answers. A -1 question and +7 answer would be a good example for a discussion where the answer saves the question. And a saving answer is usually great.
 
F'x
(like when you get a tune that can't get out)
 
@Fx The image? Not the walking bass?
 
I actually noticed that with questions which aren't downvoted at all.
 
11:37 AM
Man, this is paining me.
 
user19161
On TeX SE there are almost no downvotes. The community kind of discourages it.
 
F'x
@RegDwight what walking bass?
it's rather high-pitched theme, isn't it?
 
@Fx Well, walking electric guitar.
Or whatever they used.
It is, yes.
 
We don't allow recipe requests on cooking, and questions which ask things like "what can I add to X to make it taste better"
 
F'x
@RegDwight ok then; yes, that too :(
 
11:38 AM
are considered grey area.
 
F'x
@rumtscho that's all the fun of cooking!
 
Kit
Anyone see @MrHen this morning? I wanted to talk to him about his answer on my question.
 
user19161
@rumtscho I saw you great answer on meta.
 
F'x
"I make this great Thai-style soup with X and Y and Z. I've added some fresh coriander at the last minute, but I'd like something a bit less sweet, what would you use?"
 
@rumtscho We try real hard not to allow writing recipes here, either. Especially since, unlike Cooking, we have a sister site where these can get migrated. Writers.SE.
 
F'x
11:40 AM
Feb 11 at 16:19, by Kosmonaut
Someone could ask for a recipe for a really tasty egg salad sandwich and probably get at least one answer before it could be closed.
In Memoriam
 
I noticed that when I post an answer making general discussion about how well different tastes go together, and also point some directions to think of, like "try something dairy" or "an earthy smelling spice", I get upvotes - definitely more than people who say "I put in cloves and like it". And the question stays open.
 
F'x
@rumtscho the main reason I'm not yet all over the Cooking site is that it takes a lot of time for me to translate food-related words
 
user19161
I don't worry too much about votes. There are wrong answers that get upvoted and right answers that get downvoted.
 
F'x
the three things in English that I still can't handle: 1. food-related vocabulary, 2. going to the doctor/dentist (requires to much nuance in the description of pain, etc.), 3. getting the haircut I want
 
So obviously, the community at Cooking values a dicussion about general cooking principles more than just throwing in random proposals.
 
user19161
11:42 AM
@Fx You are not a native speaker?
 
F'x
@JasperLoy no, otherwise I'd be really pissed at these :)
although, to be honest, the haircut thing doesn't work in my native French either
 
I happen to know that my last statement is true, because it has been discussed on meta etc.
 
Kit
@Fx Re #3: sassy Trust me.
 
user19161
@Fx Actually I am a native speaker, though many may think I'm not. :)
 
But someone who doesn't know it can infer it from this type of questions.
 
11:44 AM
@Fx I cut my hair myself, so I don't need English for seeing a hairdresser. Oh, and not being in England also helps.
 
F'x
@RegDwight you have an unusually long arm?
 
@Fx Define "unusually".
 
F'x
@RegDwight or do you shave your head? otherwise, I don't see how that can work
unusual |ˌənˈjuʒ(əw)əl|
adjective
not habitually or commonly occurring or done : the government has taken the unusual step of calling home its ambassador | it was unusual for Dennis to be late.
• remarkable or interesting because different from or better than others : a man of unusual talent.
DERIVATIVES
unusually |ˌənˈjuʒ(əw)əli| adverb : [ sentence adverb ] unusually for a city hotel, it is set around a lovely garden | [as submodifier ] he made an unusually large number of mistakes.
 
@JasperLoy thank you for thinking it is great. I have seldom written an answer somewhere on SE and been more scared of what the reaction might be.
 
Kit
@Fx I cut my own hair, and I don't shave my head.
 
F'x
11:45 AM
@RegDwight now can I get a candy for that?
 
Mar 3 at 11:11, by RegDwight
Candy, specifically sugar candy, is a confection made from a concentrated solution of sugar in water, to which flavorings and colorants are added. Candies come in numerous colors and varieties and have a long history in popular culture. The Middle English word "candy" began to be used in the late 13th century, coming into English from the Old French çucre candi, derived in turn from Arabic qandi and Persian qand, "cane sugar." In North America, candy is a broad category that includes candy bars, chocolates, licorice, sour candies, salty candies, tart candies, hard candies, taffies, gu...
Suit yourself.
 
F'x
humpf, that doesn't look good, there you go:
 
14 hours ago, by RegDwight
Man, some people are just picky.
 
F'x
OK, regarding this one:
0
Q: Why do they call it "sheet music", while the correct English term should be "musical sheet"?

Saeed NeamatiI always had problem in understanding the reason people call it Sheet Music. Isn't it a sheet (an object) that has an adjective of being related to music? Why don't we say such things like Sheet Excel, or Sheet Cheat? The correct syntax or grammar of English tells us that we should use adjective ...

 
@Fx I am not a native English speaker either, but I don't mind talking about food in English. It actually offers the most detailled food terms out of the languages I speak. It differentiates between short pastry vs. flaky pastry vs. raised pastry dough, just to name an example. And some languages don't even have a word for pastry dough as opposed to, say, cake batter.
 
F'x
11:48 AM
shouldn't we just plain reject questions with "should be" in the title?
 
Kit
@Fx As peeving?
 
But then, I don't speak French.
 
@rumtscho Mmmmmmh... cake...
 
F'x
@rumtscho I would totally understand that sentence, except for the fact that I now have to look up 5 different terms in the dictionary
 
Kit
@rumtscho No! Really? Heaven forfend!
 
11:49 AM
I'm sorry to inform you, but this site is not for pineapples.
 
Kit
@Fx Short pastry = like cookies, flaky pastry = like turnovers, raised pastry = like doughnuts?
 
@Fx There's a flawed algorithm for that, no doubt.
 
F'x
@Kit thank you
 
@Kit I can understand that you might not need it, but it is different to explain to somebody why their pie fails time after time.
@Kit Um, no.
 
Kit
@Fx Don't thank me, I'm guessing.
@Fx And wrongly.
 
F'x
11:51 AM
which lead me to check the etymology of "shortening" in this meaning, and it is sweet
short pastry = buttery pastry?
 
Kit
@Fx Shortbread cookies. Butter cookies, that's short dough.
@rumtscho Right?
 
Short pastry = the crust used for quiches in Europe, flake pastry = the crust used for pies in America, raised pastry = the crust used for meat pies in Victorian England.
 
F'x
oh, "pâte brisée"
so, the easiest
 
Kit
@rumtscho Flaky pastry is for turnovers too though, right?
 
user19161
I don't like the baguette, too hard.
 
Kit
11:53 AM
Oh, wait, that's puff pastry, isn't it? Or is that the same thing?
 
F'x
I make short pastry all the time without knowing
ok, gotta go, see you later
 
Kit
Is it called "short" because it's fast to make?
 
user19161
I make pastries in the toilet everyday, if you know what I mean. :)
 
@JasperLoy Gross.
 
@Kit Puff pastry is very different. It isn't even a pastry in the narrow sense.
 
Kit
11:54 AM
@JasperLoy That should be a loaf, not a pastry. You're doing it wrong.
 
In the wide sense, "pastry" is anything which the "pastry station" in a restaurant makes, including anything baked plus some other desserts.
 
Kit
@rumtscho I was just going to ask that.
So is it short because it's fast to make or because it has shortening in it?
 
In the narrow sense, "pastry dough" is a dough made for pie crusts and crusts for similar dishes, with a fattened flour and some water. The physics of it is quite interesting, depending on the order and amount of mixing, you get short, flaky or raised pastry dough.
 
Kit
@rumtscho I thought puff pastry was also fattened flour and water?
 
I have never known why it is called "short", or how an English cook decides which doughs to call "short". Recently, somebody insisted that muffins in America are counted as shortbread.
 
Kit
11:58 AM
@rumtscho Maybe you should ask on EL&U...
 
@Kit Puff pastry is a cooked pastry. It is wettened flour with fat (the difference is important), and it doesn't work without the eggs.
 
user19161
And I just learnt that a ladyfinger is a kind of cake. Previously I thought it only referred to the vegetable.
 
Kit
@rumtscho Eggs? Oh my, I must be thinking of something else.
@JasperLoy Vegetable? There's a vegetable called that?
 

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