English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:00 PM

@Jeff Atwood just said he sent [someone] an email apology. I added a comment in that thread: "@Jeff Atwood: I think at this point any apology needs to be public and sincere. As @psmears pointed out in chat, the insult was made in public, so a private apology is no apology. As someone else said, in politics if it happened in private it didn't happen."

Kit

@Robusto I agree that he should make a public apology, but I feel we are cornering him on it, which is going to make him defensive and resistant even in the face of reason.

Grace Note

He has publicly apologized, twice. Maybe not a full blown speech of apology, but it's in two answers already, apologizing for his behavior during his frustration of the past 2 days.

Jez

1

Q: Equivalent of "Man up" for a female

Does this make sense? Ie. "John, just man up and get on with it". You cant say this to a female, so what is the appropriate equivalent? Thanks

gender

hahaha, I asked that on chat ;-)

Grace Note

I admit that the latter of the two apologies is in hand still with his stance, but I believe he is intending quite to be sincere here.

RegDwight

Well, as far as I am concerned, I have said my bit about apologies and besides I have to make up for two days worth of undone work, so... I'm gonna go create some web pages.

I'm not logging off but don't expect much.

Kit

12:13 PM

@Jez This is a dupe.

Jez

Anyone have any examples of questions that might seem inappropriate on the multicollider but appropriate for EL&U?

Grace Note

@Jez You could say that to a female. It's just that there isn't a generally universal reaction to it when compared to a man's reaction.

RegDwight

Woman is just a female man anyhow.

At least etymologically.

Robusto

@GraceNote — I know at least one of those was not perceived as an apology but as an escalation of the insult.

Grace Note

@Robusto Secondary note, though I likewise acknowledge that interpretation trumps intent.

I'd vote that question as a duplicate if I had a bit over 10 times my current English reputation.

Robusto

12:18 PM

"I'm sorry I'm so frustrated that this place sucks" [paraphrase] is not exactly the same as "I'm sorry for insulting you."

3

Jez

Anyone? i could do with one

RegDwight

@Jez Sure. Etymology of the n-word. Etymology of the f-word. Stuff like that.

Jez

links?

RegDwight

11

Q: How long has the f-word been in use as an abusive term?

When was the f-word 'invented'? Who invented it? Has it always had the derogatory meaning that it does today. Is it a recent invention?

etymology slang

10

Q: "Woman is the 'n-word' of the world"?

The other day I was watching a video, in which one white teacher was being accused of using the word "nigger" in reference to one of his students who was black. The newscasters, before showing the video report, didn't dare to say the whole word "nigger" and instead just said "a teacher used the n...

word-choice offensive-language

8

Q: Was the word "nigger" an expletive in Mark Twain's day?

Was the word "nigger" a deliberately derogatory and offensive word in Mark Twain's time, or was it just a normal word to describe an ethnicity in those days? Background: I'm curious as to whether Twain could have anticipated the use of the word being so controversial nowadays (though discussing ...

history offensive-language

Jez

cheers

Kit

12:20 PM

0

A: Is ‘beetle-black eyes’ expressing their owner’s character?

There's no "real" answer to your question - in this case, it's just some art in writing. It is not a common phrase in English, and there's no particular specific phrase it brings to mind. Now, I am from the same country as Rowling, so naturally I assume she is a genius. But frankly, for me it'...

Can I just slash the hell out of this answer?

RegDwight

Do your best.

And thank you.

Kit

@RegDwight For what? This user bugs the crap out of me.

Grace Note

Oh, Joe Blow. I've heard stories.

Kit

If I could, I think I'd delete every g-deasley comment he's ever made.

Grace Note

To wit I didn't expect there to be stories, but I heard them all the same.

Kit

12:24 PM

Talk about volatile. He doesn't play nice.

RegDwight

@Kit Same for me, but I am not going around investing effort in improving his stuff.

Jez

shame about H&B, i rather enjoyed him

it's lively users like that who help a good site stay alive

Kit

@Jez Between him and Joe, I think I'd choose bacon.

Grace Note

Heard about him from the "unhappy smile" question. Seems his answer is deleted, though.

RegDwight

@Kit If it's offensive, chatty, or off-topic, flag it as such.

Kit

12:25 PM

@RegDwight That's going to be a lot of flags...

@Jez Hmm. I think we disagree on quality users. I'm not pleased about gamers who are unremorseful.

RegDwight

@Kit If enough people flag crap as such, it goes away automagically.

Grace Note

I can assist in flagging if you run out.

Kit

@GraceNote Well, I'm working my way through his stuff, so I'll let you know. Actually...

Grace Note

I don't actually know what unremorseful means.

RegDwight

@Jez I must admit he did show signs of improvement. And that's why right now he's "merely" banned for sockpuppeting, not for the quality issues.

Robusto

12:26 PM

@Kit — I would prefer to eschew treif.

Kit

1

A: Antonym of: to request

It's simply cancel the request Very straightforward. You can see any number of examples of this by googling something like "apple documentation cancel the request". I dug up an almost exact example of what you mean: Don't forget to cancel your Bonjour resolve! Q: After I Resolve...

This has a lot of garbage commenting.

Jez

@RegDwight yeah but he lost his rep. rather harsh.

RegDwight

@Jez He'll get all of it back.

Jez

oh?

RegDwight

Stack Overflow Blog: A Day in the Penalty Box

Posted by Jeff Atwood on April 6th, 2009

Are you familiar with the Penalty Box?

The penalty box (sometimes called the sin bin, bad box, or bin) is the area in ice hockey, rugby football and some other sports where a player sits to serve the time of a given penalty, for an offense not severe enough to merit outright expulsion from the contest. Teams are generally not allowed to replace players who have been sent to the penalty box.

It’s not something we looked forward to, but as of tonight, we’re instituting a penalty box on Stack Overflow. …

Kit

12:27 PM

@Robusto Huh? What's treif?

Grace Note

@Jez Suspension locks reputation at 1, it doesn't actually take it away. At the end of the period, he'll get it back

RegDwight

"- Your account will be locked at 1 reputation.
- Your user page will have a visual indication that you are in timed suspension, and for how long.
- You will be unable to vote, ask, answer, or comment.

"At the end of this timed suspension period, your reputation will be recalculated, and your account will resume as normal. We don’t hold grudges. The point of all this is to address the behavior. If the behavior improves, you are welcome back."

Jez

"We don’t hold grudges."

hah!

apart from my PERMBAN on Meta

Robusto

@Kit — Gen ref.

Grace Note

@Jez Did you get a second one?

Jez

12:28 PM

a second what?

RegDwight

@GraceNote He can't ask questions.

Too many downvotes on stuff he already has.

Grace Note

A second question ban. We dissociated your question from an earlier point to ideally lift the ban, last I checked.

Kit

@GraceNote I don't think he's learned his lesson.

Jez

@GraceNote ah, yes, i seem to be able to now. thanks. hadn't noticed.

Grace Note

@Kit Ah, I see.

Jez

12:29 PM

(i still think the filter should be taken off meta as it's only appropriate to non-meta sites.....)

Grace Note

@Jez You're welcome. ♪

Kit

@Robusto You could have just said "anything that's not kosher."

RegDwight

@GraceNote NOOOOOOO! What have you done! We've now lost @Jez to MSO! (Until he gets autobanned again, that is.)

Grace Note

@Jez I think it's recently gotten uppity on Meta, the filter. Before, it did one thing really well, which is that the only times it triggered were on people who weren't posting merely disagreeable stuff, but genuinely noise stuff.

Jez

@GraceNote yeah but the fundamental point is that downvote = disagree

@GraceNote ergo the message a ban filter sends out is "dont post unpopular stuff"

Grace Note

12:31 PM

I mean, disagreeability is fine, we all have disagreeable requests and some of the highest reputation users on Meta Stack Overflow have some very negatively rated posts for disagreement.

Jez

@GraceNote for me, the solution is either to remove the filter, or have a separate way of indicating disagreement

Grace Note

@Jez I'm neutral - I think it's useful for blocking real trash, but at the same time I'm not exactly attached to it to need it to stay.

RegDwight

How many false positives like Jez do we have?

If it's just a couple here and there, and they are being addressed manually, that's not that huge of a problem.

Grace Note

@RegDwight Before about 4 months ago? 0. Afterwards? I think we've dissociated at least 5 alone for this reason.

RegDwight

Thanks.

Kit

12:34 PM

There. Flagged a bunch for you.

One of JB's behaviors that really bugs me: He'll post an answer, then comment on the question and every other answer saying that his answer is right.

I'm assuming that this is garbage and should be cleaned up. Is that right?

Grace Note

Yeah, I'm kinda sketch about that practice

Not sure if it's flag worthy - to a point he's providing counter to what others have posted which is a proper utility of comments. But his approach is... very loud, so to speak.

Jez

@RegDwight out of interest are you having a problem dealing with 80+% of flaggings?

Kit

@GraceNote Belligerent, I'd say. And inappropriate.

Grace Note

The ones where he's devolving to insulting the poster, that's just plain rude though.

Robusto

@Kit — That ain't how I roll. And look ... you learned something today!

Grace Note

12:37 PM

@Kit Belligerent is exactly the word I was looking for.

RegDwight

@GraceNote Wait how sketch you get if half of that practice, you know, is in BOLD. Understand? Do you get me?

Robusto

Anyway, gotta motor. Later.

Kit

@Robusto I'd rather have learned it from you than About.com.

Grace Note

@RegDwight That's kinda why it's so sketch.

Kit

@RegDwight And the emphasis!!! I can't believe how many important people I know!! I'm an expert in every field!! Cause I just read about it on the Internet!!!!!

And he uses words incorrectly all the time.

RegDwight

12:39 PM

@GraceNote look up sketch in a dictionary of your choice. It is never in bold. You use a pencil, not a sharpie! Hope that helps!

Kit

And then badgers people about how he is using it right, and they are the ones who are wrong.

Grace Note

@RegDwight Haha, I see

Still sketch.

Kit

That's why I thought he might be one of H&B's characters.

Grace Note

H&B sounds like some kind of local infamy.

Jez

is there a way of getting the original full-sized version of an image posted in an answer? eg:

1

Q: Is "girls" a suitable complementary term to go along with "guys"?

Trying to keep the discussion about language and meaning, and hopefully not getting socio-political, is "girls" a valid counterpart for "guys", as in "guys and girls"? The intention is to describe a mixed group of men and women in suitably casual terms. "Guys" is unproblematic. However, "girls" ...

word-choice word-usage slang politeness

a bunch of Robusto's ngrams are barely readable at that size

ah i see i can drag it to a new tag; it's just shrunk by the browser

Grace Note

12:42 PM

@Jez I can submit an edit that can address this.

Jez

@GraceNote hmm?

@Robusto in that answer "Note that girls by itself crushes guys in usage, but that only supports the contention, because girls is mainly used to describe female children."

@Robusto did you mean 'gals' there?

Grace Note

@Jez I can convert all of the images into image links, which will make it look the same but you can click on the images to see the full size in a new tab/window

Jez

@GraceNote ah right. surprised the system doesn't do that automatically for all shrunken images

RegDwight

@Jez Sometimes it sucks, yes. Not often, though. And.... um... to be completely honest, Jeff's got the number wrong. Perhaps he's just looking at the last month or something, or perhaps he's just comparing us three mods and ignoring the SE employees. Anyhow, if we look at the all-time flag stats, I'm at 37%.

Kit

@Jez I still say this is a dupe.

Grace Note

12:44 PM

Edit suggested ♪

RegDwight

@GraceNote Gah, I'm still not accustomed to your nick on this site.

Grace Note

@Kit It's very close to this one, if any were to be the dupe

@RegDwight It's an anagram

Kit

@GraceNote That's what I voted.

RegDwight

@GraceNote Oh my jee.

I guess @Robusto knew it all along.

But that capitalizationist just won't share insights.

Grace Note

I'm using it until I get off my tuush and actually get a proper Gravatar for this site.

RegDwight

12:46 PM

May 5 at 21:40, by Robusto

Kosmonaut anagrams to "man tookus" — ROFLMAO!!!

Jul 9 at 13:08, by Robusto

Anagrams are my ars magna.

Me's tellinya, that boy is fast.

Grace Note

I would not be surprised

RegDwight

I tried to compete, but to no avail.

Jul 8 at 13:27, by RegDwight

Leg is almost an anagram of Reg.

Grace Note

Well, I suppose you "right gewd" and all that.

F'x

hi everyone

Grace Note

(That was lame)

RegDwight

12:49 PM

@Fx Helloes.

Grace Note

Hi F'x!

F'x

in the current mood, it seems just fair to remind you: YOU GUYS ALL ROCK

8

(wait, checking the participants list… ok, yeah, you all rock indeed)

Grace Note

I totally shouldn't be grouped in that statement but I'll totally take credit all the same.

RegDwight

Apr 7 at 15:17, by RegDwight

The King rocks but he doesn't roll.

Kit

@Fx Really? Me too?

Grace Note

12:51 PM

...when did I start abusing the word "totally"? This isn't right at all.

RegDwight

Apr 29 at 23:00, by RegDwight

This is clearly the wrong site. You must ask over -----> there

Kit

@Fx Oh, and I have been meaning to thank you for almost two months for calling me out on the peeving thing.

F'x

@Kit yeah, you do, don't go pretending otherwise

Jez

can we transition questions to another SE site?

RegDwight

@Fx How far are you with catching up?

Kit

12:53 PM

But I keep missing you in chat.

RegDwight

Not that you must.

Grace Note

@Jez Define "transition"?

Kit

@Jez Migrate?

Jez

move

yep

Grace Note

Migration is possible, yes

Jez

12:53 PM

-3

Q: Are plain text content on the web considered hypermedia?

If a webpage Only has plain text content (no hyperlinks / graphics / audio / video etc) is it considered a Hypermedia

vocabulary language-evolution

F'x

@RegDwight not that I will; I read the whole meta “Is EL&U succeedding?” thread

Jez

that should be migrated to SO

Kit

@GraceNote But only at certain times of the year.

psmears

@Robusto Exactly. I think a lot of it is in the phrasing. His almost-apology says "I'm sorry I did that, but I have concerns with the site" - which makes it sound like he thinks his actions were justified (even if he regrets having to do them) - i.e. not an apology. Whereas if he'd said "I have concerns with the site, but I'm sorry I did that" - that would help so much more.

RegDwight

@Jez Yes, sorry for that, I had way too much stuff going on at that moment, so I didn't have the time to ask around where that question belongs and just closed it.

Grace Note

12:54 PM

@Jez Hm... it's definitely not English, but I'm not sure that's really Stack Overflow

@RegDwight Relax and I'll go fetch an answer for you as to where it should go.

RegDwight

@GraceNote Thanks and have fun fetching.

Kit

0

A: Is "girls" a suitable complementary term to go along with "guys"?

Most men don't appreciate being called "boys", but few women take offence at being called "girls". "Guys and dolls" might be a step too far in the wrong direction, though.

What is this not closed yet?

F'x

trying to be constructive because I don't have much time, there's one thing I think we need as a community: a way for moderators to tag questions so that they can't appear on the supercollider (and the related “marketing tools”)

Kit

This is a dupe.

@Fx That's brilliant.

@Fx Or better yet, a tag to put good questions on the multicollider.

Grace Note

@Fx Jez already requested this on your Meta

RegDwight

12:56 PM

@Fx We've had a similar suggestion before, here in chat. Perhaps it was even you.

F'x

we need slow organic growth, not forced traffic on specific questions that give people a wrong idea of what the site is about

Grace Note

Well, not exactly that in that it wasn't a moderator-tag-thing, but the sentiment of that is reflected all the same.

RegDwight

The thing is, meta-tags are discouraged.

F'x

@RegDwight I was about to say I remember you suggesting it :)

@RegDwight it doesn't need to be a "tag" with the current technical meaning of "tag"

Kit

So what is the declared purpose of the multicollider?

F'x

12:57 PM

and it definitely needs some programming from the big guys

and it definitely goes against their short-term interest (bring traffic)

Grace Note

@Kit Share the knowledge of hot questions so that people learn other sites exist.

Under the pretense that hot questions are symbolic of the site's expertise.

F'x

so, if they can pick it up (by seeing the longer term over the short term), it will be a tribute to their commitment; otherwise, …

Grace Note

Basically, it shows the same pool of questions you'll see on the sidebar ads

Kit

@GraceNote But hot questions are not site-representative. We all know that.

RegDwight

I have a different idea though. I already agreed with Kosmonaut to protect questions dealing with offensive terms. So perhaps that can be used instead. If a question is protected then, by definition, we don't want noobs to be looking at it.

Grace Note

12:58 PM

@Kit It is a poor pretense, we all know that.

Kit

So doesn't it make more sense to choose the particularly good questions instead?

Generate the right kind of traffic?

F'x

is this multicollider suggestion somewhere on Meta that I can upvote?

Grace Note

@RegDwight Skeptics did something like this for their collider questions.

RegDwight

1

Q: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

A big issue seems to be that, owing to the nature of the kinds of questions that get asked on EL&U, questions that may be interpreted as 'unprofessional' or 'embarrassing' may appear as 'hot questions' on the StackExchange multicollider (dropdown in the top-left corner of the screen), as well...

discussion

Jez

@Kit I wouldn't say that's an exact dupe.

Kit

12:59 PM

@Jez How is it different?

Grace Note

@Kit The intent, I know it's not how it behaves in practice all the time, but the intent is that it does this. It's meant to automate it so that the community isn't tasked to have to keep track of all this themselves and keep on top.

Kit

I'm looking for an uncontroversial casual term for a group of women on the same level as "guys". = What is a feminine version of "guys"?

How is that not a dupe?

Jez

@Kit Thon is asking whether 'girls' is complementary with 'guys', not whether it's a feminine equivalent.

RegDwight

@GraceNote Do you remember any details, can you elaborate?

Kit

@GraceNote So are the questions chosen by traffic? Could they be chosen by votes instead? Or something?

Grace Note

1:02 PM

@RegDwight The hypermedia question is a semi-cross-post that has an answer. You are free to delete the English version.

@Kit Hotness is a mixture of Views, Votes, and Age.

2

You can trump the ones that are winning by views by doing much better with votes - make sure all the good stuff is upvoted properly.

Kit

@GraceNote That's good to know.

Grace Note

@RegDwight Eh, it's pretty simple. The Skeptics mods, whenever they see a question on their site show up on the collider, they protect it. This is mostly because it inevitably gets a swarm of visitors who are dying to comment on all the rage of how to put out fire with lightning, or whether there are airborne poop particles in bathrooms.

RegDwight

@GraceNote Ah. Well, I was talking about taking protected questions off the Collider. Wholesale.

Because I already protect tons of stuff, but the 100-rep bonus...

Grace Note

@RegDwight That there is no utility currently for. I think you guys would like such a functionality.

Jez

yesterday, by Rebecca Chernoff

@RegDwight It would be great if you could pop into the mod room and explain this. Why are post-its needed? Perhaps we can improve the tooling. I'm not sure I see a need for leaving them around, but that conversation is better for the other room.

yesterday, by Michael Myers

@RegDwight We talk about random stuff a lot (hi @random!), but you can always interrupt inanity with a serious question.

@GraceNote How does one get to this room?

any idea?

Mr. Disappointment

1:07 PM

@Jez Be a mod.

@RegDwight ...

0

Q: Dark Fireworks on the Sun

The comments, embedded in the press news from NASA that present the movies: Dark Fireworks on the Sun,and released 2 days ago, are revealing that the Sun is not behaving as modeled. It was a surprise for all as seen by the wording "We'd never seen anything like it,", and the quick candidate expla...

sun

Jez

@MrDisappointment and a link appears somewhere?

Grace Note

@Jez We just distribute the link to moderators, that's all

Jez

ah

Grace Note

The moderators also have about 8 different entry points from the site proper.

F'x

OK, I've written a detailed explanation to my suggestion and why I think it would be a step in the right direction

0

A: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

I suggest (and strongly support) a way for the site moderators to mark1 questions so that they do not appear on the multicollider (and twitter, and sidebar ads on our sister sites, etc.). It's not that they are not fit for the multicollider (and other such advertising), but that they tend to bri...

Mr. Disappointment

1:09 PM

@RegDwight I closed this question^^^^ yesterday, was pondering what to leave as a comment, it's been edited since and now I left my comment - regardless of the question, do you think I conveyed my point appropriately enough?

F'x

I welcome criticism on the idea, the reasoning, and the wording; this should be as convincing as possible

Grace Note

@Fx Why is 1 super tiny but 2 is enclosed in brackets?

Jez

> It's not that they are not fit for the multicollider

Yes it is.

That's one of the problems.

Mr. Disappointment

@Jez Sorry for the delay, but yea, what Grace said.

F'x

@GraceNote 1 is tiny because it's a mere detail; the "enclosed in brackets" issue is fixed (damn MarkDown forcing me to escape opening square brackets)

Grace Note

1:10 PM

@MrDisappointment Oh, right. Astronomy, right?

Mr. Disappointment

@GraceNote Right.

Grace Note

Yay

Mr. Disappointment

@GraceNote I'd be grateful of your input, too - was just asking Reg for an opinion.

F'x

anyway, sorry I have to go right now, but pleave leave your comments here and @alert me, I'll read them all in an hour or so

Mr. Disappointment

@Fx Catch you later.

Grace Note

1:12 PM

Ooh, that's an Astronomy question.

Mr. Disappointment

Indeedy.

Grace Note

Your point seems to be made.

Mr. Disappointment

OK, thanks; sometimes I tend to be a little verbose, so, good to know. :)

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment I think the common idiom is "preaching to the choir". ♪

Mr. Disappointment

Oh my goodness, I feel like I must read that, but it'll have to wait until work is over.

OK, seriously, though, work is pretty important; I'd best go do some of that. See you all.

Grace Note

1:19 PM

So who knows what a manometer measures?

F'x

@GraceNote pressure

@GraceNote it measures pressure

Grace Note

@Fx Nay, a manometer measures how much THE MAN is pushing you down!

Kit

Is it unreasonable to expect support for 800x600 displays in this day and age?

Is that like expecting Windows 98 support?

Grace Note

@Kit Not quite, if only because I don't think 800x600 has actually been officially discontinued.

psmears

Mar 22 at 19:15, by RegDwight

Joke

A joke is a question, short story, or depiction of a situation made with the intent of being humorous. To achieve this end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punchline that will end the sentence to make it humorous. A practical joke or prank differs from a spoken one in that the major component of the humour is physical rather than verbal (for example placing salt in the sugar bowl). Purpose Jokes are typically for the entertainment of friends and onlookers. The desired response is generally laughter; when this does not happen the joke is...

Robusto

1:23 PM

Who's takin' me name in vain now.

Grace Note

And with the advent of all the fancy new portable devices, I think we'll soon see a resurgence of 800x600 eventually.

Robusto

I motor to work and get no less than five at-mentions in chat? Me ears is burnin'.

RegDwight

@MrDisappointment Well, I got what you mean there. Even though you misspelled "people's" and I am a pineapple. So I suppose it's fine.

Kit

@GraceNote You are making me unhappy with your reason. Now I am sad.

Grace Note

@Robusto Least you're not sneezing.

@Kit There was a lot of sadness with the official disconnect of support for Windows 98.

Robusto

1:25 PM

@Kit — The links @Reg provided show that the question is related, not duplicative.

Kit

25 mins ago, by Kit

I'm looking for an uncontroversial casual term for a group of women on the same level as "guys". = What is a feminine version of "guys"?

How is that not a dupe?

RegDwight

Whatever happened to my plan to actually get some work done today...

Kit

We've closed other questions that were less related.

Oh, sorry, fewer related.

RegDwight

Perhaps I should just log off. Cold turkey. You people keep sucking me in.

Kit

@RegDwight Because you love us so. Wanna hear some more factoids?

Grace Note

1:27 PM

@RegDwight I'll be sure to use up my entire flag count in your absence ♪

RegDwight

@Kit Also, not "were" but "ared". Much to learn young Padawan still has.

Robusto

And sorry I didn't tell you what *treif* means, but
1. I'm not Jewish
2. I'm all about obscurantism and obfuscation
3. I learned how to deflect from @RegDwight (see Item 2).

Grace Note

@Robusto You should learn to parry, next. It's a useful skill

RegDwight

@Robusto Nobody can learn from me how to deflect. I am too deflective for that.

Kit

@Robusto Well, in that case, you should have quoted yourself saying "Gen ref" instead.

And I don't believe you are really sorry.

But I also do not expect an apology.

Robusto

1:28 PM

@GraceNote — @Reg is my foil. He has taught me all he can.

Grace Note

I was going to say that Robusto could amend that, but he can't. But I could...

RegDwight

@Robusto You misspelled "can't".

Grace Note

@Robusto You always struck me as more of a sabre, myself.

Kit

@GraceNote thwack

Robusto

@Kit — Yes, I'm sorry ... sorry you're such a jerk! [kidding]

Kit

1:29 PM

@Robusto LOL.

RegDwight

Anyhows, people. I must get out for at least an hour. TTYL.

Kit

@RegDwight Tchuß.

Grace Note

@RegDwight Take as long as you need.

Robusto

@RegDwight — Later.

AFK, gotta go epee.

Kit

@Robusto thwack

I'm testing web pages today 800x600 is our minimum supported and boy, it's icky to be this small.

Robusto

1:36 PM

@Kit — 800x600 is so 1995.

Grace Note

@Kit Oooh, you're on the supporting side of that. No wonder you're saddened.

Robusto

Are you still supporting IE 5 as well?

Kit

@Robusto Ohhh. I'd forgotten about that. Yes, we are, I think. Argh, I'm going to have to do this all again!

Also, Opera, Safari, Chrome, and Firefox of various versions.

It's the first time I've had to do testing like this.

It really, really bites.

psmears

@Kit My phone is 800x480...

@Kit IE5?! They make you support that? Isn't that against the Geneva conventions, or something?

Kit

@psmears I have fought my project leader tooth and nail on making this into a mobile app.

That's actually the origin of "I don't see what's so hard about.." in the descriptions I have given.

psmears

1:40 PM

@Kit On which side? As in, you think it should be mobile instead, or just shouldn't support mobiles?

Kit

@psmears No, not mobiles. It's worse than superfluous.

Robusto

@Kit — This is one definition of hell. I believe Etymonline dates the usage to 1996.

psmears

@Kit That sort of comment is unhelpful from a manager in any circumstances (unless it's in the context of "so please explain to me why it is so I can not be so annoying in the future", I guess!)

Kit

This site is not designed nor is it appropriate for mobile computing.

Jez

IE5 would give an antiques dealer cause to raise an eyebrow.

Kit

1:42 PM

But he's all about flash-in-the-pan.

He actually made me divert from real design to create a page that used Google motion charts because, as he said, he needed a "party piece" to sell it to people.

psmears

@Kit Depends a lot on the app I suppose. And TBH there's a huge difference between "looks absolutely perfect and usable on 800x600", and "is recognisable as the same website on 800x600", and on my phone I'd settle for the latter...

Kit

@psmears And the latter is precisely what the end user will get.

trg787

barking dogs VS. minimalists ....... heh

Kit

@trg787 Something like that.

Grace Note

So you need something that shiny and high tech but works on dull low tech.

Kit

1:44 PM

Yes.

Jez

can it render on an abacus?

2

trg787

haha

Grace Note

I no longer feel pressured about the demands of my own job.

Kit

@Jez ROFLMFAO

Thing is, it is perfectly reasonable to have it operate on low-tech.

That is, in my opinion, a necessary evil.

Grace Note

Supporting low tech makes sense as long as you accomodate that it's low tech.

Kit

1:46 PM

It is for school teachers to use, and their technology is likely to be old and their computer knowledge is likely to be low.

Robusto

@psmears — It's an act of terrorism at least.

Kit

So I find it tedious, but important.

But he wants all these bells and whistles that are just not compatible with old tech.

The guy actually suggested —

Hang on, I'm laughing.

Robusto

@Jez — Haha, one of my first Flash projects was to make a calculator with an abacus interface. That was actually fun.

Kit

in the same meeting where he insisted on Google Motion charts, he also started pushing for iPad support, because there is an iPad distribution program for schools gearing up in my state.

He was nonplussed when I pointed out that Google charts uses Flash, which is not supported on iPads.

Grace Note

@Robusto Were there fireworks and sparklies as you slid each bead?

Robusto

1:49 PM

For addition and subtraction, btw, the abacus has been shown to be faster than an electronic calculator, because the simple act of entering the numbers achieves the answers.

Kit

@Robusto Did you ever learn chisanbop? Abacus on your fingers?

Grace Note

@Robusto I've actually heard this before, and it makes sense.

Robusto

@GraceNote — Let's not say things we can't take back. For the record, I have never committed any such egregious design sins.

Kit

ahem I finished my story but have not as yet received an appropriate response.

Grace Note

@Robusto Aww... egregious design sins are the hallmark of brand new projects! You gotta get all the bad stuff out at the beginning, so that it's out of your system when you get into the serious.

Robusto

1:51 PM

@Kit — I did learn it, but never used it, and so I forgot it. I am a slave to the computer now. It does all my calculating, remembering, searching ... and, sadly, most of my interpersonal communications as well.

Kit

@Kit cough

Grace Note

@Kit I can make assumptions on what nonplussed means but I don't know whether it's a degree of stubbornness, or lack of amusement.

Robusto

@GraceNote — Nah. See, I came at this from the graphic design end of things. I just started programming because I couldn't tolerate coders telling me that something couldn't be done. Or doing it wrong.

Kit

2

Q: Is there an antonym for 'nonplussed'?

Nonplussed is an interesting word because it appears to be a negation of 'plussed' (as in 'not plussed'). As far as I know, 'plussed' isn't a real word. He was left nonplussed. How would you say the opposite of this statement?

antonyms

Grace Note

@Robusto Oh, so you already had your fun with egregious design sins.

Kit

1:52 PM

That's why it's in my head.

Robusto

Long before people were wrong on the Internet they were wrong off the Internet. And I've been fighting the good fight since that time.

Kit

@GraceNote Befuddled. Put out.

Grace Note

Ah, so unenlightened by your revelation.

Robusto

@GraceNote — I will admit to being young and inexperienced at some point in my life, yes. What you might call the Pleistocene era.

Grace Note

That was not an hour, Dwig

RegDwight

1:54 PM

Sorry, I had to come back because I noticed something that sums up so much so nicely.

Kit

@RegDwight That is nice.

trg787

I wonder very much : was in 70-s in american schools use the logarithmic rule?

Jez

hmm

Grace Note

@Robusto You're too good at this, y'know. Must be all those years of experience.

Jez

i cant seem to find a single protected question now.

Kit

1:57 PM

@trg787 Slide rules. Yes, 70s, and 80s too I think.

Robusto

@GraceNote — Thank you. "Respect for one's elders shows character." — Winston Wolf, Pulp Fiction

Kit

8

Q: Is there a semantic difference between "pedophile" and "pederast"?

If I understand the etymology of pedophile and pederast, both mean child lover. Is there a difference in their connotation? In some recent local news stories that discuss changing sex offender laws, the controversy has centered around dividing the pedophiles and the rapists from the more questi...

differences

Robusto

@Kit — Is there a "too skeevy to touch" close reason?

Jez

@RegDwight you might want to link that one as an eg. for:

2

A: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

The mods have previously agreed that whenever a question is dealing with an "offensive" term, we protect it as soon as we see it. Pre-emptively. So, one idea we just had in chat would be to take protected questions off the Collider (and the cross-site ads, and the Twitter feed). Wholesale. Afte...

Kit

@Robusto This was one of my favorites that I asked, so tread carefully.

@Jez As an example of a protected question.

Jez

1:59 PM

yes

Robusto

@Kit — As a parent, I cringe at such discussions. Sorry. I also can't watch them drill hols in people's skulls on House.

trg787

@Kit, thanks. Here it was called "logarithmic rule" , with a table of sinus and cosinus values

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