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4:04 AM
Edited this question, would appreciate a second look if possible:
Q: Tactfully negotiating ambiguous management policies

user13316Recently there was a severe weather alert (level 3 emergency) in the county where I work. Company policy states that if there is a level 3 emergency declared, the day will be unpaid with no disciplinary consequences for not showing up (no point, no pay). Because the level 3 emergency was droppe...

2 hours later…
6:06 AM
Workplace compared to other sites: solid average in views, near the top in votes
A: Why are votes per post on the decrease (what can we do to improve this)?

Jon EricsonWarning: graph- and speculation-heavy post follows. I don't know what happened, but that trend has been reversed: After a low of ~1.9 votes/post in March of 2011, the rate has settled into a range between 2.6 and 2.8. That got me thinking about the network as a whole. For instance, I lo...

I wonder what the distribution is. I'd love to see that chart broken down a bit, wish he had put the data somewhere so we could play with it
1 hour later…
7:44 AM
@waxeagle: The graphs aren't working properly, but here is the spreadsheet data. I used the "Bubble chart" to graph the data. I could try zooming in on the cluster of sites in the middle to make them easier to separate, but I'm not sure I'll do that today. — Jon Ericson 10 hours ago
3 hours later…
11:08 AM
@gnat close but no cigar. The data only gives us the result, and not variation (like standard deviation or the like). I have a feeling our 'average' doesn't match the average post on the site, but is rather a cross between good home-cooked questions and hot network question flavoring.
11:35 AM
Good morning!
Why was this answer downvoted?
@HugoRocha probably because it's a comment and not an answer
Or maybe somebody considered it low quality, as it gives a different approach to tackling the issue than asked for, but doesn't explain why
let me see
the op question is: "How can we tactfully bring this up to management to negotiate their decision?"
the answer is... "

I would suggest that if you are in the US, your best bet it to take your questions to your state Department of Labor.
and what i got from it is "Don't take that to your management to negotiate. Bring the question, if you are in the US, to your state Department of labor."
and from what i got from that too, is that the state department of labor can bring in more light on the topic, so he could negotiate this with his management later in a better position... no?
Should we edit this answer to include this all?
I'm not sure
"Or maybe somebody considered it low quality, as it gives a different approach to tackling the issue than asked for, but doesn't explain why"
that different approach I think. It's a valid approach.
maybe HLGEM meant it to be "take it to your DOL and they will take legal action"
I don't know what the US DOL would actually do in that case
11:51 AM
i mean, a valid point*****
(wouldn't even know what the german DOL did...)
neither do I... -q
oh this definitely is a valid approach
here in BR it would do nothing. This is out of their reach.
still a sort of low quality answer
so, some might think it's just a comment, and therefore downvote it
11:52 AM
but if they were to take legal action... and the answer is focusing on the legal aspect... then it would be a answer not fitting for here, no?
And I get it now, what you meant by the "comment"
it does not resolve the situation at all, neither does answer OP main question
and does not indicates why the answer could benefit OP
I think I agree them
I would have found it more appropriate to flag in that case, but the answer doesn't seem to have any flags
11:54 AM
Then let's bring judgement
yes, I do really like Dredd.
who knew
Well, I flagged it anyway
Gah, hot questions list strikes again...
12:06 PM
Q: What is a 'friendly' way to let managers know that having good developers is a privilege?

guest11783I work for a small company, where we recently had a change of managers. The new manager has no experience managing developers, and the old manager has moved into a development role to fill in gaps left by senior developers leaving the company and being unable to find replacements. I was recently...

Protecting said question would be good about now...
Hello @jmac
what's the problem? o_o
We get a lot of bad answers when questions get on that list
let me find the meta question in a bit
Roger that
Q: Reorder questions picked for hot list based on adjusted hotness score (discard some answers by voting evidence)

gnatExecutive Summary The 100 questions are selected for the "Hot Network Questions" list displayed in the sidebar of each site. These questions are designed to showcase other sites in the Stack Exchange network. Those questions should act as ambassadors from that site to the Stack Exchange Network...

12:12 PM
Um. I see the problem now
Nice job on that, jmac
12:43 PM
@HugoRocha Not my post, it was @gnat's!
@jmort, if you're around, could you please protect the hot question linked above? It already has 1k views and I feel it will get busier as America wakes up...
@jmac I know, but it seems you helped, right? And you seem still worried with it, so, still a nice job :D
America is already awake, no? o_o I mean, at least south america is pretty awake right now
It's 8am on the East Coast. Awake but not at the office.
Peak time is around 2pm or so East Coast time, as they are in the post-lunch lull, and the west coast is finding ways to kill time until lunch.
I wouldn't be shocked if we had 50-100 votes on that question in 12 hours.
I see :)
1:22 PM
1566 views now..
now I sorta want one answer on there
but too lazy to write one
my old nemesis wins again
1:57 PM
And I have hit the rep cap....
This one is going to be big...
oh, rep cap, unfortunate :)
@jmac Sorry, that's my fault (reddited it).
And yes, protecting it would be a good idea.
Is slashdotting still a thing?
I ended up on slashdot recently, was surprised it's still around.
That used to be the bane of the internet. Put a like there and DDos the site :D
2:06 PM
@YannisRizos Really, you reddited it? Oh dear.
is this trolling?
(I've only read the headline so far)
@jmac Yes. I reddited this yesterday, and it got 10K+ views in a couple of hours, without a single non answer. I was hoping it would be the same with the WP question, but...
Ah, Nick just protected it.
That question seems to be a better fit for pm.se, I would say
@YannisRizos TWP is a bit 'softer' than programmers, and we're still working the kinks out. We do appreciate the promotion, but a quick heads up would be nice so that we can at least go about trying to make sure someone is around to protect it if it takes off
Yeah Yannis, I let him know in the Tavern for the sake of not having our regulars have a heart attack when they pop in over the next couple hours
@jmac The heads up was why I came in here ;)
2:12 PM
@Yannis, was this migration your doing too?
(it is in sore need of an edit at the very least, and will likely get closed and locked before it gets the edit it needs)
@jmac No. Click the link in the migration notice for more details.
@CMW and @Hugo, mind doing a bit of flagging on some of the bad answers in the hot question?
@jmac Hm, couple of answers from senior Workplacers already...
It really could use some friendly comments to new users, stuff like, "The best answers here are longer rather than short, and not only give the answer to the question, but explain why it is the best question preferably backed up with personal experience or references" with some links to the meta
@jmac I'm on it already
2:17 PM
@CMW Thanks! We used to have @RhysW around at this time, and he was a diligent worker, but we made the poor mistake of helping him find a better job that takes away from his SE time!
@YannisRizos Very true, still not a fan, but I'm extremely biased against programming questions compared to most of our other senior members. They probably kept it open, I'll guess it'll have a +5 upvote answer, but only +2 on the question or somesuch. We'll see.
@jmac lol
@YannisRizos (and thanks for this tip by the way, I had never bothered as I thought it was just a link to the question on the site, didn't realize revisions showed migration info)
@jmac what do you think about this one?
I like Tom DeMarco, so I'm inclined to leave it unflagged :D
but not sure about the whole 'buy a book' type of answer
@CMW Up to you, but I don't think it answers the question personally. Telling someone to hand their manager a book ain't exactly going to solve the issue being asked (how to let the boss know that he can go #%$! himself in a polite manner)
@jmac Ever read DeMarco? :D Some of his books actually can convey exactly that
2:26 PM
@CMW Nope, maybe I'll put it in the queue, but I'm not a developer personally.
Oh, his books are on management in general
It's about creative work. I am in a bit less creative field (dealing with real products and actual logistics, etc.)
Oh, my, someone's posting videos of people taking a shower in one of the chat rooms. brb, suspending.
@YannisRizos I was totally wrong. Forgot about the traffic from reddit. The programmers are now getting in to that question too, and it will likely need protection soon as well if it continues at this pace and hits the hot network questions.
Someone hand Yannis one of those Dredd helments (/cc @HugoRocha)
2:29 PM
@enderland, @joe, it's so busy here today, thank goodness you showed up! Mind doing a bit of cleanup on the huge influx of traffic we're experiencing? Thanks!
what type of cleanup? I'm always ready to DV stuff
Check out this question and downvote away:
Q: What is a 'friendly' way to let managers know that having good developers is a privilege?

guest11783I work for a small company, where we recently had a change of managers. The new manager has no experience managing developers, and the old manager has moved into a development role to fill in gaps left by senior developers leaving the company and being unable to find replacements. I was recently...

I had Nick protect it to save us from even more answers, they were flying in at one point
yeah that was good
I'd already DVed the one answer there
a lot of the others are really, REALLY "meh"
remember to be nice to new users! It's 11:30pm here, so I am winding down, but a few comments pointing people to relevant back-it-up posts in meta, as well as our help center on what answers are, and maybe a few more pointing to about pages would be good
it's funny because I literally have a convo with my boss yesterday about working fewer hours
When a company is focused on how long your butt is in a chair rather than the quality of work you produce, it's time to polish the resume. — DA. 9 hours ago
this is one o my #1 concerns with my current company
2:34 PM
Then you should post an answer, if the three of us in here upvote it, you will hit the rep cap over the next 6 hours
well I was pulling back to 40
but maybe I will
we are by far at the top of the Hot Network Questions list
so as the West Coast wakes up, we are going to get absolutely flooded
if I didn't care about being able to moderate our own site, I would have left the question unprotected as a giant warning to the entire SE network, "This is what happens to community moderation when something from a smaller site gets on the hot list"
hahaha yeah
@enderland When that's happening, make sure to switch to being paid per hour. And to freelancer rates ;-)
@CMW it makes me want to take a more "software engineering" job vs my current engineering job (though I'm doing coding and dev stuff) that's for sure
2:37 PM
The day started off so well too. A few light edits to closed questions to get them reopened, a few answers to meatball questions that didn't have great answers, watching upvotes roll in on old answers, and then this when nobody was around.
(plus data.se went down, and it made me sad)
Anyway, good luck with the new users folks, fight the good fight, win some people over to our community, and make sure that the tourists don't litter all over our beautiful landscape!
good night
And if any of you know SQL, please write some queries
A: What is a 'friendly' way to let managers know that having good developers is a privilege?

enderland The reality is that any of our senior developers can walk out the door and have a new job with as much as 30-40% higher pay within a week. Most of us are only staying here for the casual environment, and being able to mix personal time into our work days. How can I let this manager know t...

answer posted!
I would love to see upvotes/downvotes by month, for instance.
(along with number of questions)
But SQL? No idea. I just can't figure out how the heck the language works with complex stuff. Simple query? Okay. Creating new tables that consist of manufactured data items? Not a chance.
@enderland And downvoted! j/k
2:49 PM
its cool
I think the problem with this answer is that the manager has no genuine feedback system. When the developer does quit, and he will, the manager will be left guessing what caused it. — itcouldevenbeaboat 3 mins ago
So confused by this comment.
The problem with my answer about how to tell the boss to sod off is that it doesn't explain how to implement a feedback system for the manager?
how could you!
@jmac my answer won't hit the rep train as it's not high enough :P but that's ok
I've got enough rep lol
Actually, I'm referring specifically to the line, "Thank you very much, I look forward to working with you." Clearly, you should say this if your happy. But if you're not, and you say this, your boss will think he did a good job! How is that fair to him? It is much more fair and professional to say, "I understand what you're saying, but I can't agree. It is unacceptable for reasons X,Y,Z, and we need to reach a different agreement or I must respectfully resign." — itcouldevenbeaboat 3 mins ago
Ultimatum = "fair and professional"
I will catch up on this in the morning
time to escape.
3:42 PM
Sorry guys, I'm in the middle of a high demanding task right now, I'll check you back later!
bye bye!
1 hour later…
4:55 PM
@jmac I think your too humble. @HugoRocha here's a different take on that... :)
@jmac Glen said that version based on your edit was much better than original one. :) To me, your points (A), (B) and (C) were even more valuable than that (Glen couldn't tell because these points were integrated in both versions I asked him to compare) — gnat yesterday
1 hour later…
6:05 PM
Someone able to chime in on this? I may be lost in translation.
I am back!
Carrier has arrived
6:25 PM
A: What is a 'friendly' way to let managers know that having good developers is a privilege?

itcouldevenbeaboatOP, this is a good question. Eight hours in a day is an arbitrary number. It may be stated explicitly in your contract (which, I'm sure, your employer will conveniently forget about when he would like you to work more than that much,) but this is still arbitrary. Eight is just a number. It could...

hello CMW
@HugoRocha battlecruisers ftw
6:45 PM
The yamato cannon is one of the best weapons of all time
but the AT guns are really good also
the mammoth plating..
But hey, who needs another Judge helmets? standart equipment for carry on-spot flagging!
i mean, on-spot judgements.
2 hours later…
8:27 PM
Q: How did you became a successful programmer?

Jesus Alberto Mendoza ReveronI don't mean in terms of getting a good job, i mean in terms of knowledge. Did you read a lot of books? Youtube tutorials? Internet tutorials? Trying on your own? I just graduated from college and i feel like i know nothing compared to everyone else, causing me to be insecure when going to an i...

^^^ Does anyone want to reveal their secrets?
9:13 PM
This is not appropriate for this Q/A site as there are a million perspectives and it cannot be concisely answered. — enderland 2 mins ago
3 hours later…
11:43 PM
10k views in a day. Wow.
11 hours ago, by jmac
I wouldn't be shocked if we had 50-100 votes on that question in 12 hours.
68 votes on question, 96 votes on answer, 10k views. Can I call it or what?

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