The Hangar

5:02 PM

@PatoSáinz 16 to solo, 17 for your certificate (in powered airplanes. I think you can solo gliders at 14?)

@egid no, he's a rare breed. He really like airplanes and aviation, but just likes being a passenger. I've talked to him about it and he claims to have no desire to be a pilot. (he certainly has the means to become a pilot if he wanted)

voretaq7

or you could just fly around in an ultralight :P

@BretCopeland That's actually not that rare a breed, I know a lot of folks like that

Anonymous

@BretCopeland tell joel he could pay for my aviation classes and i'd have him always as a a passenger

voretaq7

I don't understand it myself, but there they are, just wanting to sit in the right seat and look out the window :P

@PatoSáinz gofundme.com :-)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 CRAZY PEOPLE

voretaq7

5:05 PM

thats my new favorite crowdfunding site. "GIMMIE MONEY! 'cuz like... I'm asking!"

@BretCopeland no, those are the ones who jump out of an airplane where all the control surfaces and wings are still attached :-/

I do not understand skydivers. I'll jump out when major structural or aerodynamic components detach and.... yeah that's about it :)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 I've gone skydiving twice. Not that I prefer it to the left seat, but it's pretty great.

Undo

There's something about jumping out of a plane that I... um.... NO NO NO.

Bret Copeland

okay, I need to actually head into work. I'm late for lunch!

3

voretaq7

I've experienced freefall - that's the good part or so everyone tells me :)

@BretCopeland Food: The ultimate motivator.

Undo

@voretaq7 I have too - it involved a roof and a misbehaving ladder :P

voretaq7

5:09 PM

@Undo mine involved a mountain and some malfunctioning safety gear. (And a few other times with shorter falls and missing safety gear, but I'm crazy and suicidal and don't be like me kids.)

Undo

Hehe

Just curious, is flying ever cheaper than driving?

voretaq7

like the last time I took someone climbing and he was like "Why do I have to wear the ropes and shit, you're not wearing them?" -- Because I really don't care if I fall to my death, but if YOU do I'm going to have to explain to your girlfriend how it happened!

@Undo prrrrobably not unless you're taking a bunch of people with you (or taking an airline - flying round-trip to florida for a couple hundred bucks is a little cheaper than gas, tolls, and hotel if you decide not to do the 16 hours in the car all at once).

Undo

Oh

;(

Where is the bulk of the costs?

Fuel?

voretaq7

round-trip FRG...MTP...FRG probably costs me about $100 in fuel versus $50ish in the car, but I don't have to sit in traffic :P

if you're renting, rental fees (which are mostly fuel and maintenance)

if you own, fuel and maintenance reserves :)

egid

@Undo it depends what you consider costs :)

Undo

5:14 PM

@egid Hehe

egid

if time is a cost, then yes

flying can be cheaper than driving

voretaq7

@egid This is true. I bill out at $100+ per hour even to clients I like. The 3+ hours each way from FRG<-->MTP (sometimes more during the season) more than balance out the cost of putting avgas in the tanks :)

Undo

I'm thinking more usefulness - we as a family like to go somewhere about 750 miles away, but we kinda hate the 17hr drive - about how long would it take in a Cessna or whatever the entry-level plane is?

egid

if you bring down $100+ an hour, and it takes 2 hours to fly vs 5 hours to drive, but the trip costs $100 more, then you're still $200 ahead

@Undo a trip like that would probably be 6-7 hours depending on wind and aircraft model

Undo

Wow. Not bad.

voretaq7

5:15 PM

@Undo figuring 100kts? about 7ish hours, you'll probably have to make at least one fuel stop in there (and really you're not gonna want to sit in the plane for 7 hours anyway)

egid

i cruise at 120 knots (almost 140 mph) no wind; i burn 8.5 gallons an hour at $5.50/gallon

so a 750 SM trip would take 6.25 hours and ~55 gallons

Undo

Another thing: If I were to build my own runway (on private property, etc), is there any weird law prohibiting me from using it? And how long would it need to be?

egid

which is $151 one way per person if i use both seats :) (just in fuel)

voretaq7

@egid I do all my planing based on 100kts / 11gph - I usually wind up somewhere around 115-130kts depending on whether I want to burn and 8ish or 9ish gph

(and then the wind shows up. How can I have a headwind BOTH WAYS?! Stupid weather!)

egid

@voretaq7 i carry 22 gallons so i tend to be a little less conservative as otherwise I stop every hour

i just give myself lots of options :)

@Undo in the US, you can do what you like, afaik

Undo

5:18 PM

Yay!

egid

you'd need it to be as long as your airplane requires.

voretaq7

@egid yeah usually if I'm launching for any kind of distance I can carry all 50 gallons :)

Undo

But I assume you can't land on, like, roads. Right?

egid

not unless they're private roads

;)

Undo

Figures

It'd sure be fun....

egid

5:20 PM

i did my Cessna 400 training with an instructor whose boss is big in the racing industry

Undo

But... you have to get your pilot's license and whatnot, and that's not cheap either.

egid

she is his personal pilot, but also teaches at his club that's based at a racetrack

they have 3 light sports that they hangar in spare garages; they take off from the drag strip.

well, maybe was, this was... 4 years back?

ooh first SE flag request

still learning the tools

Undo

@egid Oooh, 10k?

(or 2k, I guess)

egid

yeah 2k here

Undo

I remember my first 10k flag, it was kinda exciting.

egid

5:23 PM

this one, not so much ;) we've already discussed it in meta

Undo

Ok, I'm going to try to set up that chatbot. Let's see how far I get.

voretaq7

@egid even then you'll find "interesting" local ordinances

egid

@voretaq7 that's true

voretaq7

there's a little strip of bay on the north shore where seaplane landings are prohibited (because a guy owned a house up there and he would land his plane in the bay and sail it up to his slip, then in the morning his takeoff run would take him right over the Bayville bridge at about 500-600 feet & people freaked out)

Undo

Hehe

voretaq7

5:29 PM

@Undo @egid As far as building your own strip the FAA likes you to tell them when you're building an airport (even a private strip) but that's mostly an advisory thing (and they'll tell you if you're doing something stupid like building it inside another field's airspace). As with all things government there's a form for that :)

egid

yeah, but there's nothing but local stuff in terms of actually building it. using it is when you tell the FAA ;)

voretaq7

relevant pile of legal crap :)

Undo

@voretaq7 But they won't come and make you set up a TSA checkpoint or something equally dumb?

egid

@Undo if you start doing airline service with more than 15 seats, the TSA might

but again, not the FAA!

Undo

Hehe

Ok

voretaq7

5:32 PM

tripletreeaerodrome.com <-- if you're really ambitious (and have lots of spare land) :-)

Anonymous

5:51 PM

►

Bret Copeland

6:16 PM

@voretaq7 I don't think freefall is the best part of skydiving. It's basically just like getting hit by 100mph winds and it's sort of hard to breathe. Being under the canopy is more fun.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland . . .but you can do the tennis ball trick!

Anonymous

tennis ball trick?

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 ?

voretaq7

(not for particularly long because the terminal velocity of a tennis ball is higher than that of a human, but still...)

Anonymous

@BretCopeland could you get me a SE shirt?

Bret Copeland

6:19 PM

@PatoSáinz we don't generally just ship them out to anyone who asks. If you were here in New York, then I could probably get you one.

voretaq7

The same trick as floating a pencil in a "zero G" freefall in a contained environment - the normal rules of gravity are temporarily suspended so you can play tennis (or at least ping-pong) in mid-air. The catch is you need to be at or near terminal velocity to do it :)

@PatoSáinz Don't do it, it's a trap - He's trying to get you freedom-molested by the TSA! :-)

Anonymous

lol I see

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 you're never really in "free fall" though. There's so much wind resistance. You never even for a second get that stomach-dropping feeling when sky diving.

Anonymous

@BretCopeland also, do you have internships?

Bret Copeland

@PatoSáinz we don't, sorry. We hire lots of developers remotely in the US and internationally, but not as interns.

voretaq7

6:21 PM

@BretCopeland so basically it's just a face full of wind and then hanging under a chute trying to steer yourself toward the cushiest-looking part of the landing zone? :)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 yes. Have I not convinced you why it's so great yet?

Anonymous

@BretCopeland do you need a mail guy or a secretary? ;)

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I think I'll stick to falling off mountains :)

Undo

But... mountains are pointy!

voretaq7

@Undo not really when you're up close, they're pretty smooth, and often slippery

Undo

6:23 PM

Oh

I would still rather jump out of a plane than jump off a mountain.

(not that I'd like to do either)

Anonymous

oh @voretaq7 basejumps? nice

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz no I'm not quite that suicidal

Undo

@PatoSáinz basefalling, not basejumping :P

voretaq7

::rummage::

Anonymous

@voretaq7 can you please come fly to Chile and visit me, then take me to disneyworld where we will spend beautiful moments together and then we well be roommates and we'll set up our home network as a happy hetero couple, and i'll help you photographing whatever you want in your plane in our free time after you finish working and i finish studying, deal?

Undo

6:27 PM

Umm...

voretaq7

Can't beat the views

Anonymous

@voretaq7 we'll beat them... deal, roomie?

voretaq7

though Mohonk is largely hiking and a little rock scrambling, not so much straight climbing

Anonymous

@voretaq7 what has been your longest flight?

egid

@BretCopeland no interns because you guys don't find them useful for hiring? Or for other reasons?

voretaq7

6:36 PM

@PatoSáinz hmmm

egid

I'm just curious 'cause my company is all about internships

voretaq7

longest straight-line distance, or longest number of hours flying around? :)

Bret Copeland

@egid We don't really have the capacity to take on interns at the moment. Our development team is still pretty small (23 I think) and we're probably going to grow by about 50% this year. We just don't have the resources to bring a bunch of full-time developers up to speed while also trying to manage interns.

egid

ah, that makes sense

didn't realize how small the engineering side was, given the sheer number of sales people y'all have ;)

Bret Copeland

Our sister company Fog Creek does have interns, though I don't think they hire remote interns.

Anonymous

6:38 PM

@voretaq7 both

voretaq7

@BretCopeland you don't manage interns, you make them do scut like trim the perforations off greenbar paper or pull cables through the underfloor where no one dares to go!

egid

we're weird in that interns tend to work on pretty flagship projects

at least, it's weird to me

Overheard in the office: "It's not weird to use your smartphone when you're in the bathroom, but it becomes very weird when you don't mute flash ads or youtube videos."

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz straight-line distance maybe 120ish miles, got a plan to go up to the Boston area come spring/summer which is gonna be like 140-150

kicking around in the air just sightseeing and shooting photos... like 3-3.5 hours

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 really? 120? That's it?

egid

that's pretty short!

:D

Anonymous

6:42 PM

@voretaq7 no int'l?

Bret Copeland

Mine is 163.9nm, and I thought that was short.

Anonymous

you disappoint me

egid

/me opens up the logbook

my longest single trip (time and distance) is 257nm & 2.7 hours

wait, that's this year, hah

i knew 2.7 seemed too short

Anonymous

has anyone ever done int'l here?

voretaq7

@BretCopeland single leg yeah

lnafziger

6:43 PM

So how is it that we have a couple of questions that have gotten 1K views in a single day, but Area 51 still shows us at 198/day? ;-)

@PatoSáinz: Yes.

egid

5.5 logged cross country, but i stepped out and took a leak at one of my stops

Anonymous

@lnafziger buggy buggy

Anonymous

@lnafziger SHUT UP YOU DON'T COUNT

egid

hahah

@PatoSáinz I haven't flown any trips that require customs, but I have flown in another nation :)

Anonymous

seriously, you work for that, you don't count

Anonymous

6:44 PM

@egid that's int'l

egid

ehhh, sorta

it didn't really require anything crazy

Anonymous

have you landed in another nation?

lnafziger

I have lots of trips that require customs, why?

voretaq7

This summer I plan to do some "throw a dart at the sectional and fly there" trips

egid

@lnafziger you have to pour coffee, shake hands, etc

Anonymous

6:45 PM

@voretaq7 throw darts to a globe i suppose?

lnafziger

In fact I was sitting in Santa Marta, Columbia over Christmas....

@egid And more, lol.

egid

;)

my old primary instructor is flying Falcons now for a Seattle area company

they recently took delivery of a 2000EX i think?

whatever the one with all the glass is

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz no, I think I'll stick with the NY/Philly/Boston charts for my dart throwing. My luck the dart would land somewhere in Australia and adding in the auxiliary fuel tanks would be all kinds of expensive and paperwork-y :P

Anonymous

@voretaq7 it'd be fun tho

voretaq7

@egid <makes his "glass cockpit" face>

Anonymous

6:47 PM

@lnafziger you work for an airline right?

egid

@voretaq7 for primary (and to some extent, instrument) training, glass is awful; for making you more situationally aware and keeping your skills relevant for longer periods of time, glass is incredible

voretaq7

@egid I spend all day in front of a computer - I fly to escape this particular hell :)

egid

@voretaq7 then look outside the window just like you normally do :)

lnafziger

@PatoSáinz No, I fly corporate jets.

abelenky

I agree: I preferred Steam Gauges for learning.

Anonymous

6:48 PM

@lnafziger uuuh fancier

egid

that's the problem with glass when you're not using it for IFR - most pilots fixate

abelenky

Each gauge tells you one and only one thing.

voretaq7

@egid There's an OUTSIDE?! I thought this G1000 was just StarFox with EXCELLENT full-motion dynamics!!!

egid

there's no reason to pay any more attention to the glass than you would to steam gauges and your gps

Anonymous

has anyone ever been in a Boeing 787?

abelenky

6:49 PM

The issue with glass is that you can look at the screen, collect 5 different "facts", and miss the 6th fact.

voretaq7

@egid . . . I usually turn the GPS off in foreflight :-x

egid

if you must pay more attention in order to make your glass work, you need to learn how to glass. that means you haven't been fully trained.

Anonymous

yesterday i got to see one inside (because LAN airlines just bought one and $friend is a pilot)

egid

@voretaq7 i'm not sure i get that, honestly ;) data is data

Anonymous

it's gorgeus

egid

6:49 PM

@PatoSáinz I worked at KPAE (the Boeing 787 plant) for 4 years, and fly there now

so I saw the first flight, etc

haven't flown on one, though

Anonymous

@egid what do you think about it?

Anonymous

i love how they made the ceiling look... better

egid

I think there are an awful lot of them parked on my crosswind runway

voretaq7

@egid well it's probably more accurate to say I pan around a lot and break the GPS tracking

Anonymous

(also lol batteries)

lnafziger

6:50 PM

How do you insert an image into chat?

egid

11/29 is now basically overflow tarmac for Boeing

@lnafziger message that's only an image url

Anonymous

@lnafziger paste the file url

voretaq7

I like following on the chart myself

lnafziger

egid

@lnafziger yeah, that's the easy cockpit, right?

voretaq7

6:51 PM

@lnafziger use the upload button next to "Send" if you want to stick it on SE's imgur instance

lnafziger

Oops, that's not quite what I fly.. That has the Proline 21 upgrade.. One sec

egid

Looks like the photos I've seen from my old CFI, but with an extra lever

nope, Easy is nicer

ah, ok

lol

6:51 PM

the thing that cracks me up about Falcons is all the dang window panels up front

Anonymous

egid

you've got this futuristic cockpit, and 15 windows

Anonymous

too many buttons

lnafziger

Here's mine:

egid

reminds me of the CRJ cockpit I did some training in

voretaq7

6:52 PM

@egid you would prefer they spend more engineering money on a nice constant-form piece of polycarbonate with no supports? :)

Anonymous

why can't planes be "SLOWER |-I-I-I-I-I-| FASTER" ;_;

egid

@voretaq7 yeah actually :P

voretaq7

@egid me too :P

lnafziger

Looks something like this:

Anonymous

or be drivable with a joystick... like the marine's drones

voretaq7

6:53 PM

I was going to have them replace the Cherokee's windscreen with the "one piece" version, but apparently the little middle strip that holds them in is structural, so if they do that they have to put in a pole inside the cockpit. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of wanting that one-piece glass :-/

...reminds me i need to call ed tomorrow and find out what's up with paint scheduling. grumble-grumble-down-for-maintenance-just-when-the-flying-weather-is-getting-goo‌d-again :-/

@lnafziger I'll take it, put it in a bag!

Anonymous

i remember flying in Wii Sports Resort... why is real life so difficult

lnafziger

@voretaq7 Haha, me too! I want one!

At least they let me fly it. :-)

voretaq7

there ya go, joysticks :P

Anonymous

lol

Anonymous

@voretaq7 too much plane porn

voretaq7

6:57 PM

@BretCopeland how do you find the side stick?

egid

ugh, that cirrus spring-loaded stuff is garbage

lnafziger

@voretaq7 Well, if you want that, how about the 7X?

egid

also, Cirrus is technically a side-yoke, not a sidestick

you push and pull it out of the dash; it rolls side to side

it doesn't tilt fore & aft

anyway. garbage.

lnafziger

That's the EaSY cockpit. :)

egid

@lnafziger yeah i thought there were more TVs up front ;)

Anonymous

6:59 PM

this remembers me of c2.com/cgi/wiki?OneWorldAlliance

Anonymous

> One World Alliance

An international GrandConspiracy dedicated to the extinction of all life outside airports and train stations.

Anonymous

f*cking airlines

voretaq7

@egid well it's still mechanical linkage right? :)

egid

@voretaq7 yes, but it's a very weird experience

and the yoke is spring-centered

so you don't get very much control feel

especially for the null zone

voretaq7

@egid that's.... an interesting design choice

egid

7:01 PM

Cirrus is not a pilot's airplane, in my opinion.

voretaq7

(I find myself saying that a lot when I talk to people about the Cirrus)

egid

it may have the performance that pilots want, but it is a cruise machine

it lies basically on the other end of the spectrum from an RV, for example, in terms of how it was designed and how it behaves

Anonymous

c2.com/cgi/wiki?VeryGoodSeats

voretaq7

@egid that's what a lot of people want (or say they want) though - something that can take them several hundred miles with little effort and make the routine flight tasks "easy"

egid

and for that, it's fine

voretaq7

7:02 PM

me personally I'm happiest when I have to smack the plane around a little bit

egid

it's a better 210, essentially

in that you can't leave the gear up

voretaq7

I'm actually a little surprised there's no retractable Cirrus aircraft

(except the jet that doesn't exist yet(?))

egid

@voretaq7 aerodynamics and liability

when the FG Columbia/Cessna 400 is faster than the retractable Mooney...

just weld it down and fair it in

voretaq7

yeah I guess

egid

i mean, the RG Lancairs are faster

but not by a lot

there are fixed-gear sport-class racers at the Reno Air Races that are quite competitive

Undo

7:07 PM

What is this email I just got from Delta about 'TSA Precheck'? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

egid

@Undo it's a random program, apparently

ask in Travel.SE? :)

Undo

It scares me :P

lnafziger

A lot of the side sticks are spring centered (airbus, the falcon 7x, etc.)

egid

@lnafziger yeah, but those are FBW; you don't get feedback anyway, right?

voretaq7

@egid ...because random selection never picks a terrorist (just look at the statistics for the screeing programs :)

Anonymous

7:08 PM

@Undo stupid TSA shit, tsa.gov/tsa-precheck-program

lnafziger

@egid: Yes to FBW, not sure about the feedback. Probably not though.

Anonymous

"Pre✓™"

lnafziger

I remember reading something about adding control loading to them but don't remember which airplane it was for.

Anonymous

hah clever trademark

egid

@lnafziger i mean, they have give at all because of the F-16 prototypes going insane when pilots overcontrolled them

voretaq7

7:10 PM

@lnafziger I wanna say the Airbus line as part of the Air France investigations?

Anonymous

blog.tsa.gov/2014/01/tsa-week-in-review-27-firearms.html

Anonymous

wait what who the fuck brings a grenade to an airport

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz ...stupid people?

lnafziger

Or a car battery?

voretaq7

the key word here is "inert"

egid

7:12 PM

supposedly airbus has no artificial feel system, but boeing might

but i can't confirm this

probably a good SE question

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 I love it.

@egid 100% disagree with you.

Anytime I'm flying with a "real" yoke now, it just feels like it's in my way.

Undo

Ok, people, really: Is someone who brings a 'bullet-shaped knife' through security really trying to hide anything?

egid

@BretCopeland I find the yoke part of it the least weird, honestly

it's the self-centering behavior that is unpleasant

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I do dislike the fact that the cherokee yoke winds up in your lap :)

Bret Copeland

@egid the springs don't bother me at all. You still notice a difference when there's air flowing over the wings vs. not.

What did suck was prior to the G3's there was a rudder aileron interconnect.

voretaq7

7:17 PM

@BretCopeland that I wholeheartedly disapprove of - was it bungee cords or actual rods?

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 bungees

voretaq7

ok so just "yuck" and not "OMG WTF?!"

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 it just made cross-control more fatiguing.

And it was awkward in some turns because you would have to actually use a little bit of opposite rudder.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland "Yeah but how often do you have to do THAT?" -- Engineers, who live in a perfect no-wind world :P

Anonymous

@lnafziger how is your jet's bathroom like?

Anonymous

7:19 PM

fancy?

Bret Copeland

I think some people find hand-flying a Cirrus a little more difficult. I don't. It's actually a much more comfortable arm position. I've hand-flown them for entire cross-country flights without it bothering me at all.

And it's unbelievable how much it opens up the cockpit.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I imagine the Cirrus arm position is roughly where I wind up with the Cherokee once it's trimmed out as long as the winds aren't crazy? (arm on the arm rest, 2 fingers on the yoke)

@BretCopeland I do like the big expansive view of your panel - it would be especially nice for my panel because I've got the old switch layout (everything on the bottom-left instead of the middle) so the yoke blocks all the switches

Bret Copeland

^ ends up about like that.

voretaq7

<wonders how much it would cost in bribes to the FSDO to have the guys do a 337 and convert the Cherokee to a side yoke...> :-P

Anonymous

@BretCopeland nice! (i mean, you, flying)

Anonymous

7:23 PM

@voretaq7 why can't flights be more thrilling re:

Anonymous

►

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 definitely

lnafziger

@PatoSáinz It's nicer than an airline, for sure!

voretaq7

hmmm, I'm not sure I entirely like that wrist/arm position honestly - I mean I know why it can't be a vertically-oriented stick (stupid cockpit structure!) but...weird :)

Bret Copeland

@PatoSáinz that looks terrible.

Anonymous

7:24 PM

@BretCopeland terrible in what way?

Bret Copeland

@PatoSáinz do I have to answer that?

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz I call bullshit - I've not been able to stand up straight in an airliner since I was like... 10

(seriously, would it kill them to give the passengers some FUCKING HEADROOM?!)

Anonymous

@BretCopeland oh for a moment i thought you were talking about footage quality

Anonymous

@voretaq7 the boeing dreamliner does

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 you mean the 45° neutral angle? It feels quite natural.

Anonymous

7:25 PM

;)

Anonymous

@BretCopeland it looks awesome

Bret Copeland

ooooh, I just got the first Good Answer Badge for the bravo question.

voretaq7

nice :)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 yep, just rep whoring as you said.

voretaq7

...though now I wonder how many people upvoted that because they went off and flew through someone's airspace they shouldn't have :)

Bret Copeland

7:36 PM

I was totally not qualified to write that answer either, haha

voretaq7

that is an answer you don't WANT to be qualified to write :-)

"Well the last half-dozen or so times I did it....." O_o whaaaaaaat?

Bret Copeland

I wrote it literally the day before the first time I flew into a bravo (with clearance)

voretaq7

@BretCopeland . . . I keep forgetting you're not from around these parts :)

Bret Copeland

closest bravo to BOI is either SLC or SEA

voretaq7

"We're going to Trenton. You're going to talk to Kennedy, because there ain't no way we're doing the 500-foot-skim bullshit or flying all the way the hell around the core." -- roughly paraphrased from one of my instructors :)

@BretCopeland wow.... y'all kinda in the middle of nowhere aren't ya? :)

Love the Pac-Man charlie gobbling up the mountain BTW.

Bret Copeland

7:41 PM

@voretaq7 haha, well their radar doesn't cover the back side of the mountain, so no reason to call it a charlie.

voretaq7

should bribe someone at the FAA to make a GPS approach with waypoints for inky, blinky, pinky, & clyde :)

@BretCopeland just keep turning up the wattage until (a) it burns through the mountain, or (b) the goose on the radar dish is a nice golden brown :)

nevermind the tesla-death-ray shooting down all the planes in the pattern! :)

Bret Copeland

You're pretty much on your own over most of the state in terms of radar unless you above 9500ft. And even then, it's iffy.

voretaq7

...I live in glass airspace though so I don't get to through stones. The republic notch in the bravo, the bayport exclusion in Islip's charlie, the "aw, fuck - Brookhaven!" hole on the west side of the charlie... sometimes I think lower NY airspace was drawn on the back of an IHOP placemat with crayons

Bret Copeland

I called center once in the SE portion of the state asking if I'd be able to pick up flight following, and he said "maybe if you climb to 12,500"

voretaq7

@BretCopeland "I left my JATO bottles in the other plane."

Bret Copeland

7:46 PM

@voretaq7 I've spent a whole lot of time staring at the TAC since I moved here.

voretaq7

as part of the pre-solo written at NFI they make you describe and sketch the airspace. For my description I think I wrote something like "fucked up" or "giant blue and magenta clusterfuck" -- my instructor gave me credit for it :)

@BretCopeland the important part of the TAC (when you're doing training) is the arrival and departure corridors that kinda run right through the north practice area :-)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 the NFI "worksheet" for airplane rental asks something like "If the airplane is fully loaded, can you carry three people?" Doesn't say anything about how much those people weigh. I wrote something like, "This is an absurdly ambiguous question without enough information to give an answer."

voretaq7

@BretCopeland "If they're scrawny fuckers like Justin Sean & Bernadette, sure. If they're big guys like Pat, Steve, and Sean from the maintenance shop, probably not."

@BretCopeland Alternate answer for the Warriors they got from Dowling: "No. Some jackass ripped out one of the seat belts in the back."

(apparently Dowling was worried about people not being able to work a weight & balance calculation)

Bret Copeland

I've never flown a Cirrus with 4 people. The SR22 will do it just fine, but the SR20 doesn't generally have enough useful load to fill the fourth seat.

@voretaq7 seems like a legitimate concern, sadly.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland Most Cherokees are 3 person planes. You can do 4 in mine but you may have to think about how much fuel you carry.

Bret Copeland

7:53 PM

@voretaq7 Archer's seem to do four people alright as long as some of them are light.

Anonymous

@voretaq7 wait... do +-70 kgs make a difference?

Anonymous

TIL they do

egid

8:12 PM

most 4-seat aircraft are 2-3 seaters when you have full tanks

voretaq7

8:50 PM

@BretCopeland yeah Archers (or 180HP cherokees) can haul 4 with standard fuel without trouble usually - just no 250lb folks :)

@PatoSáinz and yeah the weight matters - in my plane not so much unless we're talking fat guys in all 3 passenger seats, in which case you might not be leaving the ground (it's pretty hard to load a cherokee out of balance unless you really work at it)

Transcript for