Home Improvement

11:59 AM

> Installing a GFCI breaker on a circuit containing knob and tube wiring, probably won't provide any benefit -- @Tester101

I don't disagree that AFCI isn't the best choice, just disagree with that one sentence in your answer.

I don't see any benefit spending $30-$100 for a GFCI breaker, to protect against accidental electrocution from coming into contact with k&t wiring.

If this was a widespread epidemic, I might change my mind. As it stands, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find 1 case where somebody died in this way in the past 30 years (in the US).

I don't know anyone that's been killed by electric shock in the bathroom, but that doesn't mean we don't encourage people to use gfci's there.

12:14 PM

You don't know anybody killed in that way, because the GFCIs are doing their job.

KnT problems are down because everyone switched to better wiring

mod fight, get your popcorn everyone!

:)

I don't know why I'm debating this with someone that has superior electrical knowledge, since that means I'm probably wrong, except for the fact that I have experience sticking forks in receptacles

12:33 PM

@Tester101 I want to sell you my anti-tiger rock.

@TheEvilGreebo How much?

$500. And as proof that it works - just look around - you don't see any tigers do you!

(I was looking for the simpson clip for that but can't find one :( )

@BMitch It's not about right and wrong in this case. And electrical knowledge doesn't mean a thing. I'm just saying that I don't see a high enough risk, to justify the expense.

@Tester101 IF WE SAVE ONE CHILD IT JUSTIFIES SPENDING 93 BAJILLION DOLLARS!

@TheEvilGreebo If there are no tigers now, when I don't have your product. Then why do I need your product?

12:39 PM

@Tester101 You're here with me. I have the rock.

I won't always be here with you. But I have another rock tucked safely away.

It works through the internet? Is it a cloud rock?

Yes. Flying rocks - circa Pratchett or Zelazny depending on your preference.

If cost is of no importance, the better solution is to replace the k&t.

But that would be needlessly wasteful. If we can spend $93BJ for a gfci to save 1 child its still better than spending more $BJ to save the same child

Besides, You'll probably let go, or the GFPE will trip the breaker before you die.

12:45 PM

If we're not talking about spending bajillions i'm not interested

uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bajillion

1:53 PM

Can you leave the First Post review queue to me for a few days? I'm 19 away from reviewer.

Niall C.

Spam: diy.stackexchange.com/a/33284/22

@NiallC. smack, splat, thank you.

Q: Is it possible to use the ice maker on a refrigerator without a water supply line?

How tall would a 1/4" tube have to be, to produce 40 psi at the bottom if it was filled with water?

1

Our department just moved physical locations. We were able to bring the fridge from our previous break room, but our new location does not have a water line anywhere nearby for the ice maker. The simple solution, of course, is to just use ice cube trays, but I would really like it to be constan...

water refrigerator

@Tester101 if the link I found is correct, 93 feet

Also note that in this practical experiment, the 1/4" tube may go in the bottom of the fridge, but has to then go up to the ice maker (nearly the height of the fridge).

2:03 PM

You need to build a small water tower, or a pressure vessel.

Curiously enough, 100' or so is probably the height of a water tower above the tallest structures in many locations.

@ChrisCudmore What does the maths on this look like?

@Tester101 diy.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/stats

@BMitch So we'll need a pump?

@Tester101 unless the ice maker doesn't require 40psi to operate. I'm guessing these are timed valves and they don't measure the water level inside the ice tray somehow. But that's just a guess.

Haha! I have 101 reviews, I'm not reviewing anything else.

wax eagle

2:08 PM

@Tester101 badges are at 1, 250 and 1000 now :P

I only recently realized that I need to use the review queue, I had been clicking on all the low rep answers by hand off of the front page for months and never getting any credit for reviewing outside of the review queue

I got the Reviewer badge in the old system, apparently.

:11930585

this GE document specifies a water pressure of 40-120 psi, for the ice maker to function properly. — Tester101 17 mins ago

@BMitch You're an edit approving mad man.

@Tester101 that's the one thing you don't have to go to the review queue to get

Some users seem to think everything looks good.

1900 feet for 40 psi.

It's awarded at 250 per queue.

2:20 PM

@ChrisCudmore Thanks. How did you calculate that, or did you use a table?

Density of water: 62.43 lb/cuft = 0.0361285 lb/cuinch
(1/4"/2)^2 *pi = 0.049 sqinch - Cross sectional area of the tube.
height * area * density = 40 lb/sqinch
height = 40 / area/ density

calculatoredge.com/enggcalc/pressure.htm

PSI is 3 down center column

What the question is asking is similar to How tall does a 1 inch cross sectional tube need to be to contain 40 lbs of water.

Each foot of water in a 1 inch column weighs 0.4333, 40psi / .4333 p/f = 92.314 f

Now divide by 0.049

= 1877 ft

2:26 PM

why divide by .049?

because it's a 1/4 diameter inch tube.

.25/2 = .125

how does the diameter of the tube affect psi?

Thought that would only affect gpm

weight of the water over the cross sectional area.

psi is a measurement that includes the area, if you measure it over 1 foot or 1/4", the psi should be the same even though the weight of the column will be significantly different

You're right. I complete divided out my units there. I ended up with 1877 [dimensionless] per inch.

2:40 PM

Oh good, I can only handle being wrong so many times in one day. My client isn't happy with me right now, I screwed up my changes that went into their image. Fortunately only about 50 machines that need a little fix.

1877 ft is the size of the tube that would contain 40 pounds of water.

3:30 PM

@ChrisCudmore How many gallons of water would be in the 1877 ft. tube (or liters if you're more comfortable with that)?

4.77 gallons. something is wrong here.

Disregard any math I do today.

No, that's right. A gallon is ~8 pounds.

A: How can I consolidate different heating/cooling systems into a single system?

3:50 PM

Self promotion, thoughts?

0

I'm not sure I will be able to answer this question, since I did a mistake the first time when I forgot to mention that I work in the company that produces this item, But I believe that, for that reason, I can explain very well how it works, so how can it solve the problem @MJ is refering to. ht...

I'm ok with it.

Since all of his answers/edits seem to be references to his products, that seems to violate the self promotion clause: diy.stackexchange.com/help/behavior

> if some (but not all) happen to be about your product or website, that’s okay.

> If a large percentage of your posts include a mention of your product or website, you're probably here for the wrong reasons

Then you've got a USER problem, not an ANSWER problem.

Warn, and suspend the user. but leave the answers (edited if necessary)

Agreed. Mark user as spam, not the answers.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Tester101 I concur, Doctor.

4:04 PM

@JimmyHoffa Doctor

My sarcasm detector is acting up.

True. Probably I should enter in discussions about hammering a nail. — opalenzuela 4 mins ago

Anybody know a simple way to multiplex AC signals?

I'm not sure what type of sorcery goes in the colored boxes.

4:19 PM

They're dicks. They'll tell me to go to school for 10 years, and get a doctorate in Electrical Engineering. Then I'll be able to answer my own question.

These are basically on/off signals right?

At what voltage? Or does it matter?

4:37 PM

I guess it doesn't matter the voltage.

Well, it will if the circuit was ever actually built, but at this point it doesn't matter.

I was thinking phase modulation, or frequency modulation, but I'm not sure either are easily implemented.

I was thinking frequency.

But with phase, you'd could have a separate LRC circuit on each input. But I don't know how to decode.

With frequency, hi and lo pass filters to decode, but I don't know how to encode.

But it's basically Ohms law in complex numbers where r is real, L is -ve i, and C is +ve i

I had a chuckle from this answer

"The determining factor is what the inspector will want,which is not always predictable, some will not care while others will pick out anything possible. I can tell you I would vent mine and you do have to at least by the eaves at least to avoid condensation ,rot and mold. 1 big tip I learned with inspector's is...."

(me thinking: Why did bmitch delete this? it's not worded well, but..)

"....have a girl provide access! I used to have a girl who rode her moped to the jobs and they would fall over themselves as she would have coffee etc!"

ah. that is why.

I really want an answer to that question.

yeah, me too

:)

Where are you? Looks like mississauga or oakville.

4:47 PM

I've been busy the last couple weeks but hopefully soon I'm going to get a couple guys in to quote on the spray foam, will get their opinions on doing it as a hot roof

Close.. Kingston

wrong direction.

I had insta foam do my basement. I don't know if the rep in your area is any good, but they were great for me.

@ChrisCudmore This company: instafoamllc.com ?

No. Let me check my emails.

oh you're in toronto, okay, was wondering. :)

Q: Is there an easy way to multiplex AC signals?

0

If I had a circuit like this... What would be the simplest way to multiplex and demultiplex the signals? I was thinking either phase modulation or frequency modulation, but I'm not exactly sure how to implement either. I want to make this as simple as possible, so I want to avoid micro contro...

ac multiplexer modulation demodulation

4:51 PM

instainsulation.com/contact

But it looks like they only do Toronto and Westwards.

check out homestars.ca

@Tester101 Have you seen this? hackaday.com/2011/12/19/ask-hackaday-troll-physics-edition

@ChrisCudmore Ah thanks, didn't know about that. I've heard of angieslist before (by contributing to some stuff they have on github) which I think is similar but requires paid accounts

@tester101 what are you trying to do?

Use one wire to send 2 or more signals.

As simply as possible

5:13 PM

@Tester101 You want two light switches to power two lights with a single hot?

If that's how you want to think about it, yes.

@Tester101 as in "simple to build", or "simple = fewer things can go wrong = higher reliability"? what is the constraint here: cost, space, amount of soldering required..?

@gregmac yes.

Size is a factor, but I'm sure once I have a design I can get a board made online that will be much smaller than I could ever make it.

Cost is also a factor, as this is for a hobby project.

the first thing that came to mind was some remote i/o stuff but i don't know if that's what you're trying to do

what sort of distance is this?

what are you actually even trying to do?

eg, there are actually remote power switches like this: perle.com/ProductImages/RPS830-xlg.jpg

or digital I/O:

but I have a feeling that's not what you're looking for

Between 10 and 500 ft. I'm working with low voltage (24V). I need something small, like 1 1/2" x 1 1/2".

I was thinking of using an Arduino, but that's too complex.

5:24 PM

ah, that is very tiny

there are some fairly small rs485 type things, but mostly aimed at industrial so you're in the $200 range

even arduino though, not sure you can signal over one wire like that

does it really have to be one physical wire, eg, you can't pull a new one?

Q: As a beginner woodworker, should I buy a table saw or a band saw?

1

I'm just getting into woodworking and don't have any equipment, not even a bench. As a beginner looking to maybe make anything from small boxes to light furniture, should I buy a table saw or a band saw? I'm looking to spend around £100... It needs to be controllable enough to cut dovetails, etc...

tools woodworking powertools

Primarily opinion based?

Tester101, please stop editing my post where i ask for links to products, i'm the asker of the question so let me ask what i need to. — Sam Jones 5 mins ago

I don't think so. It's a good question.

I'm closing as off topic. He obviously wants us to go shopping for him.

Choice between table and band is not shopping.

"Any links to products would be greatly appreciated"

5:39 PM

YEah, and you handled that appropriately.

Last edit. Then DESTROY!

But that was incidental to the question.

But it opens it up to answerers to simply say "You should buy this saw. http:\\mysawrecomendation.com\hsdgoihqwpt2p43t1246\oi4h5901409y5192tcg10t0\i12hrh‌c12rh0c12rg1c097.pdf"

Which is a bad answer.

That's an answer problem. Not a question problem.

The root of all bad answers is a bad question.

2

5:43 PM

But editing out the link request was the right thing to do.

@ChrisCudmore I agree

The first time, the next 10 were just annoying.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Tester101 Let's be honest, if that URL has lost physics postulates by Einstein or perhaps a control-panel for a time machine invented by a race of super-intelligent gorillas 25 thousand years from now, then that would be a good answer. You can't know!

@JimmyHoffa Occam's Razor says "No."

Jimmy Hoffa

@ChrisCudmore Hanlon's razor says "You'll probably cut yourself"

@Tester101 This has been hard-learned truth at P.SE. People presume it's a toiletbin and frequently put crap questions and then try to ensure it doesn't get crap answers by saying "But I want comprehensive evidence based answers, not wishy-washy useless nonsense", if you need such a disclaimer than you have a question problem, and in the same vein if you get such answers than again, you have a question problem.

5:56 PM

Also see:

knowyourmeme.com/memes/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory

NSFW text