The Whiteboard

Ampt

4:00 PM

works pretty darn well for me, especially considering that I'm constantly jumping between systems and IDEs

Chris last

this is what we will be learning in the linux course: scs.senecac.on.ca/course/uli101

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: I'll try, but that one specifically is really about social engineering, not IT and SW engineering...

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum What do you think creating a team is about?

Ampt

@Chrislast is this a freshman level class?

Chris last

well i am freshment to college, so yes

Jimmy Hoffa

4:01 PM

> "The Fifth Discpline", by Peter Senge.
> "Execution", by Larry Bossidy and Ram Charan.
> "Confronting Reality", also by Larry Bossidy and Ram Charan
> "Chasing the Rabbit", by Steven Spear
> "The Principles of Product Development Flow", by Donald Reinertsen
> "What to Do When You Become the Boss", by Bob Selden

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: That is a significant part of creating a team, but I was asking about the technical part of what machines to have and what to put on them.

Jimmy Hoffa

Found this list regarding material to read for starting a software team

Ampt

@Chrislast you won't need VIM.

Chris last

do you think ill have difficulty in the class

user55340

amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Anniversary/dp/…

Jimmy Hoffa

4:02 PM

@einpoklum Do you already know the development platform you will be doing your work on?

Ampt

@Chrislast I lied. One of the topics is "Using regular expressions with vi"

user55340

You'll find the surgical team a useful read. The rest is very good too.

Chris last

damnit

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: I'm not starting a team. @MichaelT: That's a great book! I've read half of it. But it's not what I'm looking for.

/me bangs head against wall

Ampt

@Chrislast I doubt you'll need to learn VI for that whole lecture though. They might just drop it if they don't want to teach VIM lol

user55340

4:03 PM

@Chrislast Your biggest difficulty will likely be unlearning any bad habits you've developed.

Ampt

Course outlines are nice but not always followed

Chris last

lol

Ampt

@Chrislast he's not joking.

Chris last

well, that's life, as the orientation professor in computer science said

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: I mean, the team exists, I'm not its leader, the social and psychological aspects are important and merit consideration, but I was asking about another aspect of the team's operation.

user55340

4:04 PM

My first college class was in pascal... and I already 'knew' it... and oh the things I had to unknow...

Ampt

@Chrislast you bring your own hard drives to lab with you and put them in to the computer??

Chris last

they sell hard drives at the shop in the college

so im assuming we buy them

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum The hardware is the easy part. For that it's a matter of knowing the platforms, and knowing what you and your team will need for services regarding the R&D domain you're going to be working in. Is it language R&D? Is it firmware R&D? Is it R&D on distributed computing? R&D on weather pattern prediction and analysis? R&D on GIS?

Ampt

> Supply:
External 3.5'' SATA hard drive with removable rack purchased at the campus book store
OR a laptop PC with at least 10 GB of available storage

user55340

@Ampt We used 800k or 1.4M floppies back in the day.. thumb drives and similar usb drives aren't that expensive and can actually fit applications on them.

Ampt

4:05 PM

We have a university issued laptop (HP Elitebooks) so everyone just uses that

I think we have like maybe 5 computer labs on the whole campus

Chris last

that is very little haha

Ampt

those are usually 2 monitor systems for people doing CAD

you can fit a lot of code on 800k!

Chris last

we have two buildings, one for technology and one for other crap

so you cna imagine the number of labs in the tech building

Jimmy Hoffa

@Chrislast Dude, 1.4m floppies are still plenty for the majority of uses. C'mon man, you can fit an entire functioning OS with editor and programming tools in that

user55340

@Ampt When I was in college, a laptop weighed in at about 15 pounds.

Chris last

4:07 PM

lol

Ampt

@MichaelT the elitebooks are pretty damn close to that....

user55340

Macintosh Portable

The Macintosh Portable is Apple Inc.'s first battery-powered portable Macintosh personal computer. It was also the first commercial off-the-shelf portable computer used in space and the first to send an email from space, in 1991 aboard Space Shuttle mission STS-43. Released on September 20, 1989, it was received with excitement from most critics but consumer sales were quite low. It featured a fast, sharp, and expensive black and white active matrix LCD screen in a hinged design that covered the keyboard when the machine was not in use. The Portable was perhaps the first consumer lapto...

user41796

@MichaelT You could afford a laptop while in college?!

Ampt

I think mine clocks in at 8-9 pounds

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT 15£ ?? Holy crap, where did you get that deal??

user55340

4:07 PM

@GlenH7 I got a Centris 650 and a 486 dx4 at 100Mhz.

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum what kind of R&D will you be doing? If you're not allowed to say, do you at least know what languages and general platforms you'll be targeting?

Ampt

@GlenH7 congrats!

your turn!

user55340

@einpoklum Machines to have - top of the line. Where to put them? Cube arrangement type thing?

user55340

joelonsoftware.com/articles/BionicOffice.html ? joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/12/29.html ?

user55340

@einpoklum Peopleware also speaks to that topic...

user55340

4:10 PM

amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Second-Edition/dp/…

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Oh shit, we're rapidly descending back into the topic of hardware submersion. I'll bet he could get an old cray for cheap and make it scream with the appropriate liquid transduction...

user41796

@Ampt Thanks! I'm going to hold off a little bit as I don't think the view count changed. I want to run the numbers and show what the effects may be

Ampt

@GlenH7 all up to you! You have all my MSO rep now. Don't spend it all in one place!

user55340

@JimmyHoffa phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE4NjU

user55340

einpoklum

4:14 PM

@JimmyHoffa: It's actually research into doing database-related work using GPUs. We don't need what-cards-and-cpus-and-memory-to-put-in-what-boxes advice, but more like "Do/don't write your code on the machine on which you test" or "do/don't have a kitchen-sink server with all of the Wiki, the DNS, the mercurial repositories, etc. on it" etc.

user55340

X axis is year, Y is computing power.

einpoklum

@MichaelT: Last parapraph was for you too.

Ampt

@MichaelT that is actually really really unexpected to me. That means that with the right software, the cray could run iOS

I would have figured that the ipad2 would have been much faster

user55340

@einpoklum In chat, you can ping multiple people (like @JimmyHoffa and @Ampt ) - one of the "its for chat" things that comments don't have that chat does. (just as an aside).

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum Oh shit, are you all Phd types without much industry dev experience?

Ampt

4:17 PM

@JimmyHoffa I was literally picturing that scene in my head.
"We've got 100 top of the line GPUs... now what"

user55340

@Ampt the original cray was quite a beefy machine for its day. Realize that that Y axis is logarithmic.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT how is this for a question for P.SE: "Are there any drawbacks to having a kitchen-sink server with our Wiki, DNS, and source control repositories?"

@MichaelT I think that might fit

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: We are mostly Ph.D. types, but all with some degree of industry experience - but all of it was in cushy environment-was-mostly-set-up-for-you places.

Ampt

@MichaelT already noted that, but does there seem to be a slight curve on the supercomputer trend?

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum Gotcha. P.SE is your friend; this site is full of experienced industry folks who've been dealing with all of that for years.

user55340

4:19 PM

@JimmyHoffa It might. And of note, thats a 'real problem' that can get an authoritative answer.

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum I think that question is worth posting to P.SE "Are there any drawbacks to having a kitchen-sink server with our Wiki, DNS, and source control repositories?" try and keep it specific and it may well work

einpoklum

@MichaelT, @JimmyHoffa: Maybe I should have started my question "we are a bunch of Ph.D. types who need to set up a development team with little-to-no IT support. Help! "

user55340

To give a bit of an answer now, kitchen sink servers, being everything to all people, are harder to administer. You will need IT to keep it running. If anything is messed up on it by anybody, everything stops.

Jimmy Hoffa

yeah, I wouldn't do a kitchen sink server

Ampt

do lots of distributed stuff except for the stuff that can't be

GIT could probably save your butt if anything happens to that kitchen sink server

Jimmy Hoffa

4:20 PM

unless it was a single physical with VMs for services, but then mixing VM in again you want IT to administer

Ampt

how many members on the team?

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: That's a specific question I am able to formulate, but there are numerous others I don't know that I should be asking. Like "Should we use puppet for centralized configuration control?" - I happen to have heard of it, but if I hadn't it wouldn't occur to me to ask.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt shh he already talked about using mercurial, let him do it right and avoid the buzz-tech

user55340

And get some consulting company to have an on call IT guy.

Ampt

oh mercurial, git, whatever

Distributed is distributed

user55340

4:21 PM

@einpoklum Yes. Use puppet.

user55340

(my cow-orker and the IT guys are working on puppet configs now)

Chris last

okay, im going to bud in here. can an advanced diploma nail you a job? or should i spend an extra 2-3 years getting Bachelor of Technology, Informatics and Security
and/or Bachelor of Technology, Software Development

einpoklum

@Ampt: git might be better but none of us has worked with it and a couple of us have worked with mercurial so for now we're doing that.

Ampt

@einpoklum go with merc then for sure

@einpoklum they are essentially the same in concept and if someone knows one better go with that

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum Everyone I've heard who worked with both has said mercurial is better, git is just flashy because it's lineage

Ampt

4:22 PM

@Chrislast oyu mean an associates degree? or is an advanced diploma different

user55340

@Chrislast A college degree will help you get through the HR filter. If two equally qualified candidates exist, and one has a degree and the other doesn't... the other won't get an interview, much less a job.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa git is very, very popular in open source projects

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Really? I thought it was only used for vehicle firmware developers

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa we use SVN :P

einpoklum

@Ampt: What I would really like to do is hire someone part-time to look in on our team's setup and give knowledgeable advice. But I can't get that past my boss + the bureaucracy.

Jimmy Hoffa

4:23 PM

@einpoklum Did you hear my suggestion earlier about consultant folk?

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa shhh, he's making me an offer... I think

einpoklum

@JimmyHoffa: Must have missed it, scrolling up.

@Ampt: Do you live in Palestine?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Sounds like it's an offer for free

user55340

3 mins ago, by MichaelT

And get some consulting company to have an on call IT guy.

Ampt

@einpoklum welp, I guess I'm off the short list

user55340

4:24 PM

32 mins ago, by Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum Ouch, without IT folks that basically screws you. You can't hire IT folks, but can you get a consulting agreement from a company? One of those give us $XXX up front and we'll give you XXX hours of install and support time, we'll be on call and you just have to refill the meter when it runs out

einpoklum

@Ampt: :-(

Ampt

@einpoklum you wouldn't want me to be your sysadmin anyway. I blow most of the things I touch up a few times before they work correctly

einpoklum

@MichaelT: I'll talk to our team leader. Well, not leader, more like boss-guy.

Ampt

I've been through 7 VMs this year already. Whoops

einpoklum

But

finding someone/some firm appropriate for consulting us on IT issues is not trivial in itself

too many people/firms like Windows around here

Ampt

4:26 PM

it's too bad you cant do cloud

einpoklum

@Ampt: In the world of GPU computing, blowing stuff out is rather acceptable.

user55340

Where is 'here'?

Ampt

palestine

einpoklum

@MichaelT: Israel/Palestine

Ampt

@einpoklum how much computing power are we talking here? Single rack or server room?

or single computer with 3-4 GPUs?

einpoklum

4:28 PM

Single rack for starters.

Big iron will not be under control of our team

although we might get to work on some.

user55340

Bit out of my familiarity with the consulting shops... but that's still surprising. I'm sure you can find some if you look. The other thing is, you can outsource some aspects of the remote administration.

einpoklum

@MichaelT: Again, good advice, probably boss-san has more experience looking for professional services. Or maybe someone even further higher up.

Jimmy Hoffa

There's plenty of big company's that do that stuff internationally, immediately off the top of my head I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a local IBM consulting office in israel and they support *nix systems, and for a single team you wouldn't need a lot; all they need to do is answer the phone and jigger with your mercurial or wiki or mail server configs

It's not a large IT infrastructure if it's just for one team

and there's plenty of large multi-nationals like IBM that make most their bank off consulting services.

einpoklum

big companies are off the table for reasons of business competition with our, shall we say, clients.

Jimmy Hoffa

ah

einpoklum

4:31 PM

I need a guy who knows a guy,

basically.

Jimmy Hoffa

haha

einpoklum

mind you, it's all perfectly legit PhD-employing stuff, don't get me wrong here...

I just don't want my head chopped off for breaching, I dunno, commercial secrecy or whatever.

Probably I'm already doing that by asking this sort of question online... :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum you're doing a mass-GPU R&D in the country that does the largest amount of software security in the world. I'm not asking questions :)

einpoklum

It's not military stuff, I wouldn't work for the Israeli military-industrial complex.

That much I will say.

It's actually all pretty nice, maybe we can get some of it FOSSed eventually.

Well, it's my bed time now, thanks for the advice and good night. Or day.

Jimmy Hoffa

Cool. Well here's what you do, just all go learn Haskell and get cracking with the cuda bindings

user55340

4:35 PM

Even without going to things such as IBM, you've still got companies who do contracting. Many of them may have contractors from the area... and if you pay them, the'll do things.

Jimmy Hoffa

@einpoklum Have a good evening, feel free to drop in when you have more questions.

jozefg

@JimmyHoffa So I sold my soul and am learning Clojure

user55340

@jozefg Got Light table?

jozefg

@MichaelT Emacs :$ It's a drug

Jimmy Hoffa

@jozefg Haha, yeah, I understand where you're coming from. It's not so bad, but having played in better FP languages it definitely makes you feel like you're taking a step back

user55340

4:43 PM

@jozefg lighttable.com

jozefg

It's partially because I couldn't look at Scala without thinking "It's not Haskell!! * twitch *"

user55340

@jozefg Nah... you're speaking to an EDdict here. Emacs is candy.

jozefg

@MichaelT looks kinda like a smalltalk environment

Jimmy Hoffa

@jozefg Have you seen how much mutability there is in clojure yet? I was originally sold on the STM and immutability it advertises, then I looked closer and found it's got a bunch of facilities for just doing straight dirty imperative coding which it suggests for most cases :/ also the two list types is damn annoying.

user55340

@jozefg For clojure, its beautiful.

gnat

4:45 PM

@JimmyHoffa thank you! @GlenH7 it looks like me and you will have to wait in line. :) Gee it's likely first time in my life when it feels good having to wait in line

29

Q: In hotness formula, discard answers when voting evidence indicates that these are not good data points

In current version of “hot” questions formula (Qanswers * Qscore) *, all answers are assumed to equally contribute to question "hotness score", including even those downvoted into oblivion. Suggest to discard answers when there is a strong evidence that these do not provide good data points for ...

> This question has an open bounty worth +50 reputation from Jimmy Hoffa ending in 7 days.

jozefg

@JimmyHoffa I haven't, I'm very happy with some of the macro facilities though

gnat

This question has not received enough attention.

Good ideas should be implemented not decremented.

Jimmy Hoffa

@jozefg Yeah they're cool, though it lacks reader macros and a couple other more expansive stuff you get with the likes of racket et al

jozefg

@JimmyHoffa Personally I'm ehh on Racket's macros

A lot of times I feel like syntax-parameters are taking a tank to a fly

Jimmy Hoffa

Normally I'd be right with you on emacs, but LightTable with clojure (when it's working correctly; still betaish) is quite nice.

jozefg

4:48 PM

Ok I'll have to look now haha

Jimmy Hoffa

I was thinking about hacking up that validation arrow in .NET to suggest it as an approach to this question

6

Q: Are too many if else statements for validation like in this snippet bad?

From the book Professional Enterprise .Net, which has 5 star rating on amazon, which I am doubting after having a read through. Here is a Borrower class ( in c# but its pretty basic, anyone can understand it). public List<BrokenBusinessRule> GetBrokenRules() { List<BrokenBusiness...

java c# code-quality conditions

user55340

One of those to watch... and I'll admit, I looked it again because of the author of the answer...

user55340

0

A: Are too many if else statements for validation like in this snippet bad?

I am no expert but I don't feel comfortable with 1- Too many if else statements. 2- The class both serves as an entity, AND has validation. Isn't that a smelly design? Your intuition is spot on here. This is a weak design. The code is intended to be a business rule validator. No...

Jimmy Hoffa

... shit, now telastyn is screwed

and now I definitely shouldn't bother posting the validation arrow approach (even though it's awesome)

user55340

@JimmyHoffa I'd be more hesitant with the attention the question will get, not because of who else answered. I'm sure there's a badge somewhere for having an answer with a higher rep than Eric or Jon's answer.

Jimmy Hoffa

4:54 PM

Oh you're just banging on about declarative approaches because you're a language wonk. "OoOo Look at me, I worked on C#, and my answers are better than yours" +1, but next time the least you could do is suggest a kleisli'd maybe, sorry "option", approach that folds over a policy list pulled from the database. — Jimmy Hoffa 42 secs ago

What good is a celebrity if you don't get to mock them.

There is something awesome about the fact that you can ask a question like:

291

Q: How do I create my own programming language and a compiler for it

I am thorough with programming and have come across languages including BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL, LISP, LOGO, Java, C++, C, MATLAB, Mathematica, Python, Ruby, Perl, JavaScript, Assembly and so on. I can't understand how people create programming languages and devise compilers for it. I also couldn't...

programming-languages architecture api operating-systems

jozefg

@JimmyHoffa Do you do much reading on category theory?

Jimmy Hoffa

and get an answer from a genuine C# compiler developer

@jozefg I wish. I try but my math isn't up to par for much of it

Why?

jozefg

There are some nice introductions for compsci people that are light on other maths

Oh I've just been doing that a lot recently and it's actually deepened a lot of my understanding of some Haskell libraries

more just a meta "Oh, this and this are really related" sort of thing

Jimmy Hoffa

@jozefg Yeah, it's great how you can get far in Haskell without that stuff, but it is clear the bits of peeking under the vale I have managed with category theory really does make the whole of it make a lot more sense

jozefg

It's also nice when you find some useful identity on arrows that maps beautifully back into Hask haha

Ampt

5:06 PM

@MichaelT @JimmyHoffa who is Eric Lippert?

Should I know this?

Is there a blog I should have read or a paper I should have reviewed?

jozefg

@Ampt He's a major designer/implementer of C#

Ampt

Perhaps some wisdom gained in the form of a sonnet?

jozefg

Kind of has god-like status as far as C# goes

Ampt

so kind of a linus of the C# world

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt There's a small group of them but yes he's one of them

jozefg

5:08 PM

Also: blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert He runs a great blog

Jimmy Hoffa

Eric Meijer, earlier on Simon Peyton Jones (now there's someone deserving of god-like status), and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head

user55340

Also, poke at his SO side profile...

user55340

Eric Lippert, Seattle, WA

243k 53 543 1325

c# .net generics linq multithreading lambda inheritance

Ampt

oh, just 243k rep

NBD

user55340

@gnat heh... he's cast 661 votes total. 660 of them have been downvotes.

2

Ampt

5:11 PM

2720

A: Can a local variable's memory be accessed outside its scope?

How can it be? Isn't the memory of a local variable inaccessible outside its function? You rent a hotel room. You put a book in the top drawer of the bedside table and go to sleep. You check out the next morning, but "forget" to give back your key. You steal the key! A week later, you retu...

Jimmy Hoffa

hah, that makes you really wonder what he upvoted

jozefg

@MichaelT Oh man what was that upvote

Ampt

I want to know too....

probably hit the upvote by mistake

Jimmy Hoffa

Anybody here tweet? Go find his twitters and ask him on there

gnat

@MichaelT that's a long known "feature" :)

jozefg

5:13 PM

I'll do it

gnat

11

A: What is the lowest up/down vote ratio, and what is the average?

In terms of a ratio, I suspect Eric Lippert wins: 1 up, 301 down. IIRC, the upvote was an accident. (I don't think it makes Eric a "grinch" at all - given his position, I think it's reasonable for him to downvote "dangerous" answers or poorly-written questions, but not want to show "favouritism"...

in terms of volume he's not at the top though

real Grinches occupy P.SE: +2068 : -1765, +1582 : -1740. On SO, there are guys like that, too +1608 : -3440 — gnat Mar 27 '12 at 8:22

"+2068 : -1765" is outdated; current score is +4,228 : -16,708 (nothing to be proud of here, just stats:)

Ampt

data.stackexchange.com/programmers/query/65203/…

#2 isn't bad

of course you're the only one in the first page that has 5 digit total vote counts

user41796

@Ampt gnat does tend to invest a lot in the site

Jimmy Hoffa

Eric Lippert is #1 on the ratio query for SO

jozefg

Followed by a guy with 400 rep lol

user55340

5:22 PM

@gnat My downvote stats on SO are going to go quite a bit up.

Ampt

new record. 1 rep, 2 badges

user41796

Is there an easy way to post tabular data into an answer? Specifically, an answer on MSO.

user55340

@GlenH7 Nope. Pre format.

Ampt

I'm sure theres a regex for it somewhere

user55340

101

A: Is there any markdown to create tables?

-------------------------------------------------- | No | Sadly | There is none | -------------------------------------------------- | Except this, which is a poor alternative | -------------------------------------------------- | There really | should be one ...

user41796

5:25 PM

@Ampt I prefer to twiddle bits instead of dealing with regex

Jimmy Hoffa

wow, as a ratio of votes/questions @gnat is absolutely demolishing SO; the most votes on SO by anyone is 26k (total votes), as a ratio of number of voting opportunities (questions and answers) @gnat is basically monitoring this entire site

user55340

@GlenH7 Regex is just a nice NDFA... it never hurt anyone (unless they try to parse xml).

user41796

@MichaelT dang. But thanks for the confirmation

user55340

0

Q: Is it a good idea to use a kitchen-sink server for various services?

My (new) development team is setting up its software development environment. I won't describe the whole scenario, since that's another, much-maligned question. Anyway, we're going to have services such as source control (mercurial), a wiki, an issue tracker, a file/document server, DNS and poss...

development-process team services team-building

Ampt

@gnat on average how many seconds does it take to analyze a question and provide feedback via upvote downvote? I gotta feel you set a solid pace

Jimmy Hoffa

5:28 PM

@Ampt @gnat's secret is he's multithreaded.

gnat

@MichaelT throw 'em over the cliff!!!

user41796

next random Q - does anyone know where the SE servers are located? Are they East or West coast in the US?

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I believe East, based on that flood-management blog they posted a while back about manhattan datacenter

but I gotta imagine they're actually spread out

gnat

@Ampt "Reading and evaluation of posts to decide on what vote to cast takes time. If you vote a lot, expect this to take a substantial amount of time... The more you practice, the less it will take on average, but still, it'll take time."

6

A: Vote Early, Vote Often

Active voter tips Voting is easy. Unless you vote a lot. Practice makes you faster Active voting is a skill and you get better at it with practice. As you practice, you'll get faster at reading posts and making voting decisions. Civic duty badge is a convenient checkpoint. Amount of votes req...

Jimmy Hoffa

they surely have localized datacenters considering the traffic they maintain

user41796

5:31 PM

@JimmyHoffa I would think so too.

user41796

I know Atwood is West coast and he did a lot of the initial development

Jimmy Hoffa

He is?

user41796

but Spolsky is in NY

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Yeah, he is / was in Cali at the time. I forget if it was Nor or SoCal

user41796

That was one of the original challenges is getting the site up & running. Timeframes for conf calls were limited

user41796

5:33 PM

I ask because there was a curious flip in the denominator of the collider score around UTC - 7, which corresponds with West coast time I think

Jimmy Hoffa

blog.fogcreek.com/hurricane-sandy-wrap-up

But that's fogcreek

which isn't the same

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Right, and do they mean SE the company or SE the servers in that collective statement?

gnat

@JimmyHoffa if memory serves, this began about 2 years ago after I noticed that complaints like ohh-but-it-has-many-upvotes follow almost every crappy question closure. This made me reconsider things a bit :)

user41796

269

Q: Which tools and technologies are used to build the Stack Exchange Network?

What tools and technologies are used to build the Stack Exchange Network? Return to FAQ index

support faq stackexchange technology tools

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey get lost on your way to getting some rep?

Robert Harvey

5:40 PM

Hm? Nobody's asking anything interesting this morning.

Jimmy Hoffa

0

Q: Architecting Domain Layer and other modules with dependency injection in mind

I am currently new to Dependency Injection pattern. I am influenced by link by Mark Seemann. I have a confusion regarding whether an interface for an agent class of some agent module should be included in domain layer? by agent I mean a class / module that interacts with external wcf/ webservi...

design-patterns architecture object-oriented-design dependency-injection software-design

that's up your alley

You can lay some of your old-school wisdom on it "Nah mate, y'dont need no DI, just put everything in subroutines and it's all good!"

Robert Harvey

Too vague to answer.

Jimmy Hoffa

;P

Robert Harvey

The guy's talking about architecture astronaut stuff, but he still doesn't understand DI yet.

Jimmy Hoffa

Yeah, I don't really know what he's saying, needs better english

Robert Harvey

5:42 PM

Needs to read a book.

Jimmy Hoffa

7

Q: Are too many if else statements for validation like in this snippet bad?

From the book Professional Enterprise .Net, which has 5 star rating on amazon, which I am doubting after having a read through. Here is a Borrower class ( in c# but its pretty basic, anyone can understand it). public List<BrokenBusinessRule> GetBrokenRules() { List<BrokenBusiness...

java c# code-quality conditions

it'll hit collider if it hasn't already

free easy rep

just put in a stupid answer like everyone else is doing

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Its in there... stackexchange.com/questions

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey not going to share some love for

4

Q: From a high level programming perspective, where does the 'different-paradigm' barrier between C# and F# really kick in?

I'm aware that they both use different programming paradigms, but from a high level perspective apart from differing syntax it seems most basic tasks can be achieved in similar fashion. I only say this because when I've previously touched functional programming languages such as Haskell, writin...

c# functional-programming f#

Robert Harvey

That one looks like it's already pretty well covered.

user41796

Two more close votes on the if-else question and we'll drop it off of the collider. :-)

user41796

5:46 PM

it has a suggested duplicate

user41796

ironically, it's a very similar question to the collider question on SO that I've been tracking today

user55340

@GlenH7 Mine's already in there.

Jimmy Hoffa

0

Q: Client Server System in .Net

I am not asking for code but rather design ideas. I am trying to develop a new system to learn more about client/server development. I would have 3 systems: Client 1 : Client Server 1 : Server DB Server 1: DB Server I would develop a server application as well as a client application What...

c# .net

user55340

@GlenH7 This one is also in the collider too...

user55340

2

Q: How to simplify my code - if else if else

I'd like to improve my code, but I'm not sure where to start. Everything works as I want it to; I just think it's ugly. I'll split this in two parts: I have two drop-downs that I'll explain later. In these drop-downs, I have options to set currency and language. I use a hidden form to set the...

javascript jquery

user55340

5:48 PM

(granted, low volume sites hit the collider very easily when you look at the big list)

user55340

I work at a company where everyone knows and understands Traveling Salesman Problem.

user41796

@MichaelT You'd think you would have just solved it for once and for all already

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Everyone on my team knows and understands it. That's good enough for me.

@GlenH7 He's just a fake engineer, remember?

user41796

@JimmyHoffa professional courtesy keeps me from calling those things out.

user55340

@GlenH7 But even our sales and support people understand it.

user41796

5:52 PM

@MichaelT Soooooo inefficient. Just solve it and be done with it already.

user41796

Surely with that many minds working on a single problem, you could have created a universal solution for it by now....

user55340

We do solve it for very small values of N.

user41796

why reinvent the wheel?

Ampt

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO Product reqs just changed during integration testing

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Welcome to the industry.

user41796

5:53 PM

@Ampt business as usual?

Ampt

I'm not that bummed about having to change, it's just that we were literally on the last step to ordering the units for the initial batch of sales

user55340

@Ampt And you are surprised because... ?

user41796

so, business as usual.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Are you genuinely surprised? It sounds kind of like you are, which would be really really funny.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa I hope that one day I will anticipate changes and cope as quickly as you master.

I am still but a grasshopper who's real project just got shifted at the last minute, so forgive me for my ignorance

user55340

5:58 PM

@Ampt That requires learning haskell or some other funky language that no one uses.

user55340

(and that was message id 10999990)

Ampt

I get a prize for that right?

user55340

Missed it by 3... I had 110000003

Ampt

Damn. better luck at 120000000

user55340

Lets see who had the 000..s one?

Ampt

6:01 PM

:110000000

user55340

in Mathematics, 1 min ago, by Jasper

@skullpatrol You can see my blog now, dude. Check profile for link.

user55340

Heh... amusing comment...

user55340

@iAteABug_And_iLiked_it: And Neil Gaiman agrees with me, so by transitivity, Neil Gaiman agrees with you as well. ericlippert.com/2013/07/03/… — Eric Lippert 23 mins ago

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt that's what makes your surprise funny, that you still think anybody can anticipate the changes and somehow cope with them. That feeling you've got of "Ah shit, I have to make all these changes and go back through all of this again? Why didn't they just do this to start with!" is the non-stop reoccurring feverdream of this career.

user55340

Ampt

6:05 PM

@JimmyHoffa Still? You'll forgive my lack of experience on this one but this is the first product I'll have shipped in my career.

user55340

@Ampt Does it compile? Ship it. You've added too many steps in between.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt And it's going precisely as the rest of them will! :D

Ampt

@MichaelT Hardware changed, prompting my need to change

user55340

18

A: Meaning of "Ship it!"

There's a (in)famous software development quote, relayed with tongue firmly in cheek: "Hey! It compiles! Ship it!" In software development, there are many steps a conscientious developer must go through between writing the code and sending ("shipping") the completed product to the end-user. A wi...

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt What you don't realize yet is that your change to the software (in response to the hardware) will prompt the hardware to change again :D Isn't programming fun!

Out of curiosity, may I ask what kind of hardware you deal with anywho?

Ampt

6:08 PM

I write the code that keeps the 6 axle snow truck from dropping it's side plow on top of your car when you drive by :D

user55340

Btw, @Ampt its called "Job Security". As long as people change their minds about what they want, you'll have a job. Be afraid when they don't have a mind to change anymore.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt That's really cool.

user55340

@Ampt .... um... living in the north woods... you had better test that well.

2

Ampt

@MichaelT nah, I write perfect code the first time remember? We're putting the hex together to ship it right now

Technically our main focus is Salt Spreader Controllers, but we do hoists, plows and tow plows as well (as seen above)

jozefg

Hey Arc Lisp isn't totally dead :O

Jimmy Hoffa

6:17 PM

@jozefg ...give it a while

:/

@jozefg Now I'm going to have to dig up the lisp I stumbled across a while ago that had a ton of the functionality from haskell/ML stuff...

jozefg

Qii?

Or something like that

I like Lisp, which may make me the only 17 year old obsessed with a language almost 3 times my age

Jimmy Hoffa

Yes that's right

which evolved into I believe shenlanguage.org

user55340

@JimmyHoffa When then drank tiger blood and became charliesheenlanguage?

Jimmy Hoffa

@jozefg Here's your cohort in the set of those who are younger and smarter than the rest of us due to finding FP early

Jon Purdy, United States

8.4k 2 22 60

programming-languages c++ language-design productivity code-quality functional-programming design

jozefg

Haha I like his blog

Jimmy Hoffa

6:41 PM

heh Paul Graham's a bit of a jerk sometimes

> 3. A Language for Good Programmers
>
> - Target user: opposite of Java.

user55340

One of the psychological requirements of such programmers is often "having an ego that matches their capability" which leads to... well... a bit of a jerk sometimes. You do have to have the ego to think that you can handle absurdly large projects and/or evangelize your philosophy over others... and also... who isn't a jerk sometimes? (Note: this does not mean to be a great programmer you need to be a jerk).

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Sure, I get that. But the point stands. It's occasionally annoying to read his writings because I strongly agree with much of it, yet I know the way he says much of it just makes the people who don't already understand his perspective not want to

user55340

7:02 PM

Thats also very true. You can be right about everything, but if you're an ass about it, people won't want to listen to what you say.

Jimmy Hoffa

7:15 PM

@MichaelT I always felt bad for one dev at a previous job; a distinct case of aspergers and most people in the office just couldn't tolerate him for it even though he was one of the only people there I would consult when I was thinking through an approach. Smart as all get out, but because how he communicated he was alienated and nobody would listen to his often very apt suggestions.

user55340

That was the fastest duping I've seen...

user55340

0

Q: Can I become a programmer w/out any college. . . I have the motivation and potential

I do not have any college or background in working with computers except for this job I am now doing, which is e-discovery work. I was hired because I showed the person that I was a good at typing and he knew that I was a very meticulous person. I want to become a computer programmer or even a ...

learning

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I don't like dupe-voting bad questions, I voted off-topic for career advice

user55340

Its the same question as all four of those. The OP needs to go read those (and have it closed).

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I prefer unfixable questions be deleted rather than left closed for people to read the answers from. This just gives them the inclination it might get closed but they might get answers anyway when they write their questions

user55340

7:24 PM

Off topic sends one message (which is quite right in here too - don't get me wrong about that) of "you need to read the help on topic"... the Dup says "You really didn't search for any of these, did you? You need to do that first".

user55340

And yea, I tend to prefer close the unfixables with a non-dup myself.

user55340

That said, the root question to all of that is still open...

user55340

23

Q: Can One Get a Solid Programming Foundation Without Going To College/University?

First, I have already searched the site and read all the previous "self-taught vs. college" topics. The majority of the answers defended that going to college was the best choice, for two main reasons: Going to college gives you the paper, which is essential to landing jobs, especially in tough...

learning university

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I threw a vote at it because, well, I hate that old stuff doesn't have to comply with current standards crup

@Ampt so how's python treating you now? You've been in it for a while haven't you?

Jimmy Hoffa

7:46 PM

popsci.com/science/article/2013-08/…

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Yea... saw that. Kind of neat and creepy at the same time.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I hope it's not depressed, that would be pretty miserable :(

user55340

There are some seriously good medical implications - being able to test a drug on a brain without having to worry about the person it is attached to. Being able to model developmental brain disorders (they already identified one where the stem cells specialize too early leading to microencpanaly (or however that's spelled))

user55340

Ever read Friday by Heinlein?

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Ever read The Marriage of Heaven and Hell by Blake?

user55340

7:51 PM

There's two concepts in there... Artificial Person (a test tube constructed human) and living constructs (?) where its a... well.. brain in a box designed for some task. There was a conversation in there about why the living construct would never be an airline pilot - it had no humanity to it.

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