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12:19 AM
hmm I got 1595 functions yet queryposts.com says there are 1918
actually 1575 forgot to delete themes
 
 
2 hours later…
2:18 AM
> Average user creates 5 new tickets every month." and it costs "$4 to service each ticket
- quote attributed to Adii
Surely that can't be right. For the first month maybe, but every month. Their average user has to go back to support 60 times a year?
 
ya that's bs no one is creating tickets after a few months
 
2:31 AM
wtf is this wpavengers bs?
 
2:55 AM
hmm when I run get_defined_functions by including all files via an Iterator or just using wp-blog-header.php , they both return 1575 functions..
@Rarst Why does qp say 1918 functions?
 
 
3 hours later…
5:33 AM
@Wyck in admin?
 
@Rarst shrug I thought I was iterating over everything, not sure what it's missing
 
are you running this in admin?
 
no from root, it's not using anything related to wordpress
 
then admin functions are not loaded
 
ah I thought that was it, wonder if I should bother
 
6:15 AM
alone in The Loop, there should be a badge for this
 
7:09 AM
@Rarst Good morning :)
 
no such thing :)
 
 
2 hours later…
8:47 AM
Is the_content() always filtered by wptexturize()?
I mean, if I use the Text Editor instead of the Visual Editor...
I know that this does not make sense at all, but it seems to be broken on my site :/
 
9:06 AM
easily testable
remove_action( 'the_content', 'wptexturize' ); ?
 
9:31 AM
@Sven the_content filters are applied on output, not save. so your editor mode doesn't matter for them
 
@Rarst sure about that? wpautop...
 
@kaiser no :)
by the latest count there are 145K lines of PHP code in WP. being sure about anything in that is wishful thinking. :)
 
throw out 3rd party libs (like SimplePie) and JS libs (like TinyMCE) and suddenly WP is 5k of lines and looks like a cropped poodle.
 
not really, still a lot
 
9:56 AM
I just thought about downloading a copy and removing everything. then separating it into stuff wp has exclusive and stuff it integrates, "maintains" and has as only software. guess the first part won't be too much. Or is just much because it's redundant admin templates.
 
 
dealing with more tests and build automation I envisage some restructuring of folders or other stuff will happen simply out of convenience, though wether this is major or minor, and wether it's something we'd approve of I don't know
 
new ID3 things is a monster size-wise
still, even with that there is more of core than libs
 
Funny that deprecated.php is larger than SimplePie or PHPMailer 8)
And as we all know: wp-admin could be below 1/10th of size when it would use a templating system.
woops! simplepie wrapper I meant.
 
@TomJNowell problem is when stuff is moved precious backwards compat is lost. when Nacin refactored theme stuff he moved number of funcs to deprecated and my plugin exploded
 
@userabuser A 'group led by Nathan Walker', other than that, who knows?
 
@StephenHarris who cares?
 
@Rarst Brian, Carrie dils, and pippin apparently :).
Maybe next week's guest on "Kaiser's [Have You] Got [Dev] Talent?"?
2
 
Thought we already had pippin on templates ?
Now show me that Brian and that Carrie... code in the city.
 
@Rarst you were manually including files inside core?
 
10:23 AM
@TomJNowell yes. it's not like we have autoload...
 
10:34 AM
{
  "name": "WordPress",
  "version": "3.7.0",
  "description": "WordPress is web software you can use to create a beautiful website or blog.",
  "repository": {
    "type": "svn",
    "url": "https://develop.svn.wordpress.org/trunk"
  },
  "author": "The WordPress Contributors",
  "license": "GPLv2 or later",
  "devDependencies": {
    "grunt": "~0.4.1",
    "grunt-contrib-clean": "~0.5.0",
    "grunt-contrib-copy": "~0.4.1",
    "grunt-contrib-cssmin": "~0.6.1",
    "grunt-contrib-uglify": "~0.2.2",
> WordPress is a web software that you can use to create a beautiful or ugly-as-shit website or blog
 
where the heck is this disaster of composer.json from?
 
would be nice to see a Git link to the GitHub mirror at least
 
or it's not composer?
 
official new site
 
not Composer...
 
10:36 AM
or repo or whatever that now is called
@Rarst nope. is it packagist?
Oh, npm?
 
not Composer-related file, don't know what it is
 
npm for sure
Hm. Considering to make a Have you got dev talent show now. Any idea for a domain? :)
 
@kaiser have-you-got-dev-talent.com?
HYGDT.com?
 
got example theme - placeholder
http://wptalent.com
The "Guardian Angle"-Movie 8|
 
@kaiser "I'm a PHP developer, get me out of here!"
 
10:41 AM
@StephenHarris hehe. that's still free :)
 
Anyone else think the "Twenty Fourteen" theme looks a bit busy / dark ?
 
I think with those font sizes it can go die in a fire
 
Not only that. Why the heck does it stick to the left side of the monitor?
 
That design is responsive. Its response is "fuck you."
 
11:14 AM
Now please explain me since when that works on GitHub??
 
@kaiser june
 
link? Couldn't find anything.
 
11:56 AM
The entire WordCamp Europe speaker list is here! http://wp.me/p2TJi9-1hNt #wceu
I dread WPSE crowd at Adii's talk :)
 
12:15 PM
Hi guys, Today i got this email from my theme reviewer : Check the sidebar with monster widget, it can use some design changes, Long select menu is overflowing the sidebar.
what's this?
 
I am using it
Long select menu is overflowing the sidebar.?
 
look at the sidebar and see what is overflowing?..
 
12:33 PM
npm install
responds with ...
> You should bug the author to publish it
Then it notifies me ...
> You can as well can install it from a tarball, http url, ...
... or I can simply download it, stupid fucking npm
 
@kaiser It's npm, so you can install the modules required to run Grunt
 
I don't need Grunt. Just need to pull in one 3rd party lib from GitHub
It's plain simple local HTML index.html file that I want to use for "quickly" develop something. But I don't want to add a Git submodule and fuck with that.
 
Oh, I thought you were working with core
 
nope. no wp involved.
 
Seeing as you posted core's package.json
 
12:40 PM
and bower just isn't an option. seems to only run perfect from windows own cli according to their pages. and I seriously don't want to deal with that.
@bungeshea understood :) still: no.
 
@kaiser what shell are you using?
 
mysysgit / Git Bash / GNU Bash - one product, three names
 
Bower works fine for me from Git Bash…
 
require.js, angular.js, backbone.js, node.js, npm, bower, grunt, ... all the kool kids. but nobody really gets around how to play with them.
 
grunt is cool. Don't tend to use the others
 
12:45 PM
@bungeshea "works fine" ... and did you try to setup and update dependencies for some projects that are hosted on GitHub? That's what's failing for me.
 
I use Uglify instead of require.js, don't care about angular or backbone, use npm and grunt
@kasier not sure. Haven't really used it properly yet, just had a look at it
 
But the point is that I don't even want to use it from the CLI. I want one JSON file where I define the dependency and then simply say "go update everything" like I can do with composer.
 
You use Sublime Text, right? Havr you tried the Fetch plugin?
 
phpStorm
 
Works like bower, but you can define the files
Hmm…
I don't like how Bower downloads the whole project
 
12:48 PM
Don't want something that's IDE dependent. Others should be able to use it as well. npm seemed to be valid, but anyway I've to take what the project offers.
link to GitHub project that I need as dependency.
 
1:01 PM
Thing is driving me crazy...
 
@kaiser my cousin is in france now. he posted a bunch of photos. i'm so jealous. he'll be in germany later
 
@GhostToast ehm... I'm from Austria ...
 
@kaiser i know. we discussed this before :)
to me europe is all the same, since i've never been there. not saying each country is identical, but each one seems as interesting as the next
 
dude... :)
 
ok... :)
 
1:05 PM
you guys been to the states?
 
yep. but more than 10 years ago
 
I was deemed unworthy of entering
 
hehe
ppl were frightened by your hair
 
sorry @rarst. well, i've lived in Texas, Florida, and 2 regions of Illinois
and visited both coasts. each area is so totally different
i wonder how similar that is to europe, is all. culture + geography + climate
 
nothing at all
 
1:11 PM
i mean so far as each [state | country] being so different in [USA | Europe]
 
yeah. now imagine that each country got at least one language - most got more. than imagine that each state got several sorts of dialects.
 
and different laws, currencies (or not anymore?)
 
We're 8.x million ppl in Austria. Languages: (Austrian) German, Old Croatian/Burgenland-Croatian, Old Slovenian/Carinthia Slovenian, Hungarian, Windisch, Hianzerisch, Romani, Czech, Slovak, Turkish, Serb, etc.
Currencies: Some. U.K. got Pound, Czech Republic Crowns and then there're those countries who are not yet meeting shared currency needs.
 
hmm. we have some annoyingly diff laws. of note: marijuana (some states have legalized), fireworks, gun laws, speed limits. but mostly its the same i think for a typical traveler
 
1:27 PM
Same over here: Each country got different laws. Some even differ between a countries states. Speed limits fees in Germany for example. Or building laws in Austrian states. At least those are two examples I'm aware off.
 
The use, sale, and possession of cannabis (marijuana) in the United States is illegal under federal law. Cannabis is listed as a Schedule I substance under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the highest classification under the legislation. This means that the substance has been decided by the federal government to have both high abuse potential and no established, safe medical use. However, individual state laws do not always conform to the federal standard. State-level proposals for the rescheduling of cannabis have met with mixed success. A number of states have decriminalized...
 
IIRC it's somehow legal in Portugal and Spain. Has been free in Switzerland (which is not part of E.U.). Legal for Netherlands citizens, but not foreigners, etc. Then there're amounts you may own that don't get sanctioned when they catch you the first two times in most of the countries. But amount is different, etc.
Question always is: Who cares. If you visit a club in Vienna, then you normally smell it in lots of places.
@bungeshea Tested the following and can confirm it works: Add a basic bower.json to the root of your repo. Go and enter bower install https://github.com/etc --save into CLI. Bower adds dependency to your bower.json file.
 
1:56 PM
@kaiser what is driving you crazy mate?
 
NPM and Bower. But finally figured it out. Now I got two dependency routes for a single HTML test suite... :/
 
@Rarst "Adii Pienaar – Lessons Learned from Being First" .... I bet nothing more than Woo propaganda.
@kaiser sounds like fun... not :|
I'll be really interested in the talk: Nikolay Bachiyski – To OOP or not to OOP
and to see the expressions on peoples faces when Rarst says "Composer all the things!"
wish I could be there, sounds like it's going to be a great event.
 
Hello
Any one familiar with wp paid membership pro plugin ?
 
@Rikesh which one? this one... paidmembershipspro.com ?
 
@userabuser it would be by far not the worst thing I will say :)
or quote.
 
2:06 PM
hey, I'm not just saying this but it's the second most interesting talk I see on the list...
so should be good :D
 
@userabuser - yes
 
I am torturing slides out of my mind... should occupy me for august
 
I have customize it according to my requirement . But stuck at one place
 
@Rarst yeah make sure you make the slides available when your talk is over
@Rikesh never used the plugin but how about asking a question on the main site?
 
i scare if it get close by off topic
Still I have to give a try ... Thanks @userabuser
 
2:11 PM
@Rikesh make sure your question is clear, concise and shows supporting information of what you have tried if anything. You should be fine..
 
@Rikesh No need to ask on the main side. 99% chance to get it shot down for being closed source.
If no one can test the code than it's a guessing game.
Don't you have support from that guys over there?
 
...depends on the question though
 
Support is paid :p
 
Did you pay for the plugin? And no support included?
 
I just hope someone has obivously come cross to this thing
No it's a free one, but for support we need to pay
 
2:14 PM
Ask on the Google+ communities. Your best bet.
@Rikesh Is it work related?
 
Can you provide me the link ? I'm not familiar with Google+
 
Register to G+ > Go to communities > Search for WordPress. Choose a community that fits. Make sure to read guidelines before asking.
 
@userabuser sure :)
 
I'll sit in there, takeover @Rarst twitter account and stream a live set of hilarious quotes :)
 
want to be my Gennady? :)
 
2:23 PM
@kaiser please.. :D
 
Damn! Knew there was something wrong with that plan! :D
 
wrong what?
 
I don't want to be a Gennady
 
ok then, tweet from your own account :)
 
Hey all,
quick question: My wordpress install always wants to use the ftp-wrapper for updates (already did chmod 777 and chown but didn't help). I believe there was a way to force wordpress to use direct file access, but I can't find it now .... has anyone a clue?
 
 
@Rarst Ah, perfect. Thank you. :-)
 
3:04 PM
@Rarst I'll build a scraper that rips off your presentation, then tweets it in parts faster than you can talk.
 
@kaiser will you provide a json api for the scraped presentation?
 
Nope. I'll leave that to Twitter. Heard their service is incomparable.
Great. No answer on SO about bulk-updating bower dependencies. Doing that via shell script is a major pain in the ass...
 
@kaiser tougher answers on SO are slower in forthcoming
 
Thought that's not a tough question... until now.
Close to 40°C outside. Every day a new heat wave record. I'm dying outside.
Saw a black guy walking in the sunshine. Smiling. ... 8)
 
3:24 PM
lol
 
There will come September. The month where he will start wearing hood, gloves and down jacket and I still wear a T-Shirt.
 
@all you guys who do hosting (VPS / dedicated) -- do you host email on web server? or use something else? getting tired of dealing with email issues for clients
 
Normally e-mail is covered by domain providers as well. I always tell mine to leave mail there, so they don't have issues and downtime when we choose to migrate. Works well, everyone's happy. Especially me.
 
yea. i am using WHM/Cpanel and constantly have clients griping about email.
we use gmail for our own
 
But I close to never do hosting stuff. Most of clients are agencies who take care of themselves.
 
3:33 PM
i do hosting personally. at a slight loss. but at least i get to host my own sites "Free"
then we do it in office. and its only nice because of control. we know sites will be delivered 99% and not slow, and troubleshooting WEB stuff is easy enough. but email is a bitch.
 
3:47 PM
@kaiser same here. :-P
@GhostToast email sucks ... - but much better since I got a seperate server for it. Mixing web & mail really isn't a great idea.
 
@s1lv3r who do you go with?
 
@GhostToast hosting everything at rootservers from OVH (largest provider here in europe) ...
 
i just think linux kind of sucks at being a mail toaster, sadly. too many things go wrong
not that i want to run an exchange server. i really dont want to fiddle with email at all
 
:D ... atleast a ton of things can happen ... actually mail is a damn complex thing to handle.
I'm selling hosted exchange (also via ovh) for all mail power users (25 gb mailboxes with each account) ... glad I don't have to take care of them :)
 
what is cost per user? or how is that broken down? and they handle support directly from client if there is an issue?
i can do conversion from your currency
 
3:53 PM
Give me a sec to search .. I think they also sell to the US.
ovh.com (seems like it reroutes automatically based on IP location)
 
hmm.
 
hmm ... I can't see english prices. I pay 3,96 € / user / month.
Microsoft also sells hosted exchange as cloud solution them self, I think they where a bit cheaper ... but no direct support.
 
4:16 PM
1
A: Make WooCommerce questions off topic

Chip Bennett(Oh, look, Woo announces major price increases and removes their forums, and WooCommerce-related questions start flooding WPSE.) That's one more reason: Woo has the temerity to remove their own community support forums, pawn off community support onto other outlets such as WPSE, and then raise t...

Seem now @ChipBennet also sees a reason to move WooCommerce out-of-scope / too localized. I personally have never seen a reason to leave it on topic.
 
Why is it advised for admin panel metaboxes to use nonces? Every example I see of creation and saving metabox data there are nonces involved but aren't nonces a bit unnecessary in this case?
 
4:30 PM
If I could improve one thing about the WordPress project, it would be to make contributions less about kingmaking and more about merit.
just saying what others are afraid to say hehe
 
Got a newsletter form woo themes. Now they will charge yearly for all products.. practically it will make their products unuseable
 
4:43 PM
So who already tried Yeoman.io ?
 
4:57 PM
so is woo off-topic?
 
@Howdy_McGee nonces verify intent. it's never a bad idea and it's not that hard to make use of.
 
@Sisir it's still GPL so once it's out, it will be out, just no support
 
@Wyck I'd say yes, as it was one of the more opinionated tickets with enough votes, but mods need to change rules... Maybe we need another Meta discussion about it. Feel free to open a question.
 
@kaiser I think we need to convince toscho
 
@Wyck I think we are going to see more and more of woo themes questions as now there is no support for them..
 
5:03 PM
@Wyck open a new question. if we get enough quotes even he will have to bend :)
@Sisir that's what Chip stated in his answer.
 
I still have to see a good reason to declare questions about the free Woocommerce plugin as off topic.
 
I don't really care I have never used a woo product..
 
yes.. just saw it.. and +1 from me..
 
@Wyck the meta question isn’t about themes, it is about the Woocommerce plugin.
 
@toscho They simply add no value to the site. There won't come a day where those questions will start getting answered.
 
5:05 PM
Unanswered questions will be deleted automatically after a while.
If we do this, we must declare all plugins as off topic, including bbPress and buddypress.
 
and wpml (200 questions) who have the same model as woocommerce
 
> GitHub is for bug reports and contributions only - if you have a support question or a request for a customization don't post here. Use WooThemes Support for customer support, WordPress.org for community support, and for customisations we recommend one of the following services:
 
@kaiser was you in the room when I asked about kartograph.org ? since you seem to work with geo stuff
 
@toscho They're (still) stating the fact that they want all support in their own routes in the readme. For me, that's enough to say "Go to Woo for support. They ask you to do so."
 
Why should we bend to their rules?
 
5:09 PM
in this single case it just feels ok.
 
the essence of woo issue is that we want to kick them because we don't like them and that's not good enough to single them out
2
 
@Rarst yes, but it's not about this library currently. Just taking some OpenData stuff as a use case to learn something about npm, bower, grunt and such.
 
and that’s the whole argument: it feels okay
 
@kaiser I was asking, not suggesting :) had you worked with it? I want to make pretty map for the slide, without driving myself crazy
 
5:11 PM
@Sisir wrong, flag as spam instead!
 
@toscho deleted before I do that :)
 
@Rarst didn't try it. thing I'm after is having GeoJSON > Google converter running.
 
I just want a pretty slide... :)
 
So no kartograph involved. Also I thought it's more a mix of FrontEndDev and DTP, so not really interesting for me.
@Rarst then I'd just try it on jsFiddle :)
 
it seems to start with Python
 
5:14 PM
Two reasons: No dev stack needed + if you're out of option you can instantly show it to someone.
Python 8|
 
5:32 PM
I like Python but I'd like to know size of rabbit hole with this lib :) pretty maps on site... but how long they took? hour? day? week? :)
 
all of the above:)
where does one get all the pretty svg's to begin with
 
as above - from python part of tool
 
If not: Raphael and all that magic on top.... :)
 
ugh, raphael is way too low level for me
 
I meant the source I guess there are Creative Commons maps out there
 
5:45 PM
What frightened me slightly was that 3D map where the DTP tools like Illustrator come in. SVG isn't really well handled at such large sizes. So better just render outlines, then import and then better be really good with AI to accomplish the good looking stuff.
One doesn't simply click "pretty" in Adope Illustrator.
And yes, Adope is the correct spelling :)
 
6:22 PM
stumbled upon godaddy page for upcoming crazy domain extensions. That's a lot!
looks ridiculous to me..
 
6:45 PM
they will probably cost a decent amount..if they ever go live
 
I like .inc though. good for companies
 
ok, yeoman extensions is massive overkill. no wonder there's nothing out there aside from core packages.
 
7:01 PM
The funny thing is: a domain word.press will not violate the trademark
 
@toscho since "WPF" says what violates I am pretty sure they will have issue with such :)
 
they cannot change the registration text later
plus, word is a generic term
 
will that stop Matt from making a scene and burying owner?
 
If would get the domain, I would register it as a trademark immediately
and then shout back :D
.online is a strange TLD
 
I suspect its a publicity stunt..
 
7:12 PM
also .website
ahaha .онлайн
 
@toscho what does it mean?
 
online
 
way to lame it up...
 
.makeup :)
 
well is there any .breakup? :)
 
7:17 PM
.wtf is nice
 
@toscho i would buy one
 
.koeln and .cologne meh
 
why is there no .kaiser TLD? would have bought one...
 
plug status none of which have been approved as far as I can tell: gtldresult.icann.org/application-result/applicationstatus/…
1960 in the list lol
actually lot of duplicates, I wonder if it goes to highest bidder
 
@kaiser there is .kid which might fit better for you. :P
Or, if you can type it: .дети
 
7:22 PM
@toscho lol
@Wyck how does it work? you apply for one and if approved they start a new one?
 
ya, something like that, but there are trademarks and a whole process and it's expesive
these guys seem to have applied for hundreds of them, donuts.co
I remember reading they costa min of 50k (might be totally wrong)
 
@toscho might consider taking something similar if there's a TLD .block
 
it should be expensive or tld like .sisir or .kaiser will fly around :)
 
intial price: $185,000.
operational by September 2013
 
someone tried to register .vermögensberater and .vermögensberatung. WTF?
Argh, .католик
this will be a chaos
 
7:29 PM
> ICANN will use a lottery to decide the order in which to process new gTLD applications
SO PONY UP 185K
vanity urls anyone?
register super rich peoples names and then resell it to them
 
i want .boobs
 
sisirs.boobs?
 
mmmm.boobs
 
tiny.boobs, big.boobs iLike.boobs etc :)
I wonder how google will deal with them.. SEO point of view
 
query.boobs
 
7:36 PM
 alltheboobslike.me
hehe
ok, maybe @toscho is right and I should spend 185k for .kid
 
there might also be .virgin
 
But investing on that is left to you
 
Someone did already
 
never. ever
 
what about 1 letter tld? i.m/sisir
or .html, .php etc cool!
 
7:43 PM
@toscho .offline would be stranger. Makes sense though: [company-name].online
 
why does that make sense? if it is a public address it is online already
3.7 chat will start soon
 
 
1 hour later…
9:16 PM
@toscho link?
 
on IRC freenode. It is over now anyway
 
not sure when it's updated
actually it's up to date
/traces toscho's ip and find him in the woods near Haina, Germany
 
@toscho ah poo,forgot. Did I miss much?
 
yes
 
9:31 PM
@toscho Yes but think of it as the "company online" - i.e. the online part distinguishes it from the its offline parts (shops etc). Make sense to me anyway :/
 
@StephenHarris I don’t think the average visitor will make such a subtle distinction.
 
9:44 PM
Read through dev chat... nothing useful
 
it's a move to make things go faster imo, speed up dev, smaller teams, new tools
 
New things to learn. Raising barrier to participate.
Then there's the problem that those tools are new and none of the people who added that stuff seem to be hard core users of those kool tools. Not sure if it's an appropriate use it. Guess chance that people will just have a new frontier to fight on isn't that low.
I didn't find it too easy to handle all that stuff. Been learning that stuff for ~4h today with not that much success. Lots of things to remember like CLI commands, etc. And at least most is just package manager.
 
for grunt?
 
for grunt wat?
 
running grunt with core is complex? (I have no idea never used grunt)
 
10:00 PM
I don't even know much about Grunt - just what I read. But handling dependencies with bower and/or npm isn't fun at all.
Meant that.
 
Ill have to try out out soon
 
10:15 PM
how funny, parsing all filters and I get an embedded google video?? (WP is not loaded by this script)
HOw is that even possible
 
@Wyck by forgetting to escape the output
be ashamed!
 
11:20 PM
@toscho ha ya, didn't realize some default filters have actual html tags in them
 

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