English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

2:14 PM

What, no chatty?

And @Robusto, I think I owe you a thwack.

2:59 PM

0

Q: It was me or it was I?

Possible Duplicate: “It is they who lied” or “it is them who lied?” What would be grammatically the correct sentence to write: "It was I who contacted her" "It was me who contacted her" And if both are correct, what difference is there? Thanks in advance

grammar

Ugh

I click and double-check and look around

Post it in chat and Reg closed it

Whatever

3:37 PM

Hey

Q: Large amounts of English text is needed

Hello @MikeVaughan

0

Hi, I must admit that I'm unsure whether or not this is the right forum for this question. It may belong to statistics and AI also. If there exists a more suitable forum, then tell me :) The thing is, I want to analyse a lot of English text for an AI project (Confabulation theory). Is there a o...

american-english british-english online-resources

Another interesting question that is off-topic

I guess it belongs in Writers?

I don't really know.

This is my first time using chat. lol.

I think not, but I don't know either

Welcome to the chat then

Thank you, Vitaly.

I wish there was no cap on rep.

How am I supposed to catch up to Robusto for the week under these conditions? lol

it's there for a reason though

3:43 PM

I understand. But still, disappointing.

3:55 PM

@Reg

RegDwight

4:28 PM

@Vitaly Yeah, thanks for the pointer. I have asked around and commented on the question. I am kind of on the fence on this, but if the community decides that it's off-topic, then it can be migrated to CrossValidated. Also, in the words of a fellow mod, "If the discussion turns to how the data could be analyzed, it definitely should be migrated." But if it's deemed on-topic in its current form and gets good responses where it is, it will be left here.

Gotta go again. CU.

4:41 PM

@RegDwight My opinion is to wait a bit and then migrate it. It seems like a good borderline question and the asker was polite enough to get brownie points. But I don't think we need more questions like these.

@MikeVaughan Robusto would grow faster. The rep cap is there to help you.

5:00 PM

@MrHen Haha, you might be right.

@MikeVaughan Not that it is helping much ;)

Heyyy, I've been catching up for the WEEK, and MONTH. But I don't know about his all time rep. lol

5:16 PM

@MikeVaughan He's still #1 for Year, Quarter, Month, Week. The last three have no position changes. By all means, go for it... but you have quite the rampage to perform. :)

I know, Im just trying to pass him for the week.

Always good to start somewhere. :)

Considering I've only ever rep-capped 6 times, I am not the chosen one.

So, what happens to my upvotes that I get after I reach the cap.

I've capped twice.

But I've only been here for 2 weeks.

@MikeVaughan Check english.stackexchange.com/reputation

2

It does a good job of showing what happens

Ignore the first number for now; the second number is the post id, so you can also ignore that

The number in (parentheses) is your rep change for that upvote/downvote

When you rep cap, they turn to [brackets] and will usually show [0] to let you know you got an upvote but your rep cap ate the reputation

Ah, I see.

So, they're just "eaten"?

5:21 PM

Something like [15] is reputation that came in from a source that isn't affected by the rep cap. In this case, an accepted answer

@MikeVaughan The points are, yes. Some times there are some odd things that slip up due to downvotes and upvotes colliding near the rep cap. At the very bottom is an option to recalculate everything to fix any small errors. You can do this once a day.

What could [1] be?

@MikeVaughan Sometimes there is a tiny amount leftover before you are technically capped. Say, 199. When you get a new upvote it only gives you the remainder of the cap limit and puts it in a bracket: [1]

The very first number in each row is the type of reputation change

Ahhh, It all makes sense now.

Thank you, @Mr.HEn

Usually you can figure it out by how much your reputation changed (15 is accept; 10 is upvote; 100 is a bounty)

Yeah, I got that.

I freaked out for a minute when I saw -100 on my rep page.

Then I remembered my bounty. Haha

Q: How do you say this in English?

5:25 PM

Another neat tip is that your reputation page will often show things that avoid the rep cap in a green or red box:

english.stackexchange.com/users/8068/mikevaughan?tab=reputation

See your "accept" mark for the Godspeed answer?

This isn't as accurate as just looking at the tally page, though.

OMG

Another one

0

It is very common in other languages to use the literal equivalents of "How-manyth". But some how English seems to not have that word? How do I ask a kid? How-manyth son are you? (To know whether he is first or second born) Maybe one more example, Mr. XYZ is how-manyth president of th...

meaning word-choice single-word-requests word-usage

Where are these coming from?

@RegDwight, if you are around, that could probably be insta-closed

yeah..

If any things it can be flagged as "difficult to understand" or something like that.

@MikeVaughan The same question has been asked 6 or so times now

Oh, wow. I didn't know that.

Aleanno cited all of the duplicates. Awesome. :D

Alenanno*

@MikeVaughan I am pretty sure there are more, too

Wow.

5:31 PM

They seem to come in spurts; it feels like someone is handing out this question as a homework assignment and all of them show up here asking the question.

Right now if you Google the question, it hits us

So when they turn to Google, they get us. Since there really isn't such a word, none of them are happy with the answers and decide to ask the same question

Surprising, most of them seem to wonder about the nth daughter of a family

Interesting..

Here is someone asking Yahoo: in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100311035524AA2jtS6

We must find, and destroy, the source.

I really want to know where these are coming from...

forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=437586

These are all over

Yeah.

Well, I agree with the premise that it would be nice if a simple word for this existed.

5:39 PM

The other form is often asking what number president is X?

@MikeVaughan The closest we have is nth

But it doesn't work like that: What nth is Lincoln?

Yeah, I thought of that.

I wouldn't mind being able to use it like that... but I don't get to pick :)

Maybe phrasing a statement in the form of a question would help.

"Lincoln is the nth president?"

@MikeVaughan Yeah, but English assumes that "nth" will be filled in with an appropriate number: Lincoln is the 16th president?

Yeah, but if you said it with an upward inflection you could get your point across. Still, not ideal though.

5:44 PM

@MikeVaughan You may as well say "blank".

True.

If I were given the option to coin a word for this, I would use xth.

What xth president is Lincoln?

Or manyth. Since that seems to be the common assumption anyway. :)

i like "xth"

I*

Q: Framing a question to which the answer is an ordinal number

@MikeVaughan If you hover over your line of text and click on the arrow you get an option to edit the message.

The option disappears after a little while.

3

I am the third daughter of my parents. How to frame a question that is answered with the above sentence?

sentence-patterns questions

Okay, I voted that to close as well

11

Q: How to phrase an asking sentence that must be answered with an ordinal number (e.g., the third prime) ?

I want to make a question having an answer as follows: 5 is the third prime number. The bold part is the answer. How to phrase the question?

grammar questions ordinals jeopardy

This should probably be the only one left

3

Q: What is a term for someone who prohibits the importation of foreign words into their language?

I was thinking about how when the Italian Fascists were in power they often turned loanwords into Italian words. They wanted to conserve the Italian nature of the language: Under Fascism an Italian chauffeur became an autista; soccer turned into calcio; a bar was rechristened qui si beve (her...

word-choice

This is not a question about English

It is a nice question for Linguistics, if that ever gets up and running

6:19 PM

Yeah

Does this question make sense to you? english.stackexchange.com/questions/24686/…

I think, Op should fill in the blanks for the examples

I agree.

Zomg, someone agreed with me

Is this rare?

haha

hihi

6:33 PM

Hello zizi :)

Hello plus special respects MrHen

@MikeVaughan I edited it a bit; hope it helps

@zizi Special respects?! blush

7:00 PM

@RegDwight: I've just seeing your comment. No problem about the merging! I would've written it in one if I knew how... How did you do it anyway?

@MrHen is it about being wealthy?

Hi all

Mr. Disappointment

Hey, F'x ...and all you other guys.

Q: forray? forré? foray? What is the correct spelling?

@MrHen: if you're in a closing mood, would you please pay a visit to this you?

0

When someone says, "This is my first [forray] into the art of dancing," what is the correct spelling of [forray] and what exactly does it mean? I have only ever heard the phrase in a high-society context. Tag suggestions are welcomed.

spelling figures-of-speech

"be kind with new users", RegDwight said

7:14 PM

@zizi he's right; what's your point?

I said he's wrong?

why you are looking for points every where?

@zizi no; I didn't claim you did either

@zizi communication is about conveying your ideas to someone else; hence, I'm asking you what's the idea you want to convey with this quote

I meant why you want to close that question

@zizi I wrote that in a comment below the question

being nice is about manners; a question can be closed gently (by explaining to the new user what's wrong with it)

@Fx Voted

7:19 PM

let's not to make me angry today

Hi

Hiya Kirk :)

ok, do whatever you want

@zizi Who are you talking to?

hi kirk , long time

7:19 PM

@zizi I intend to, always strived to, always will!

@KirkHammett hi!

how do you decide whether a question is decent or not?

hi f'x

@fx

@KirkHammett you mean decent as in the antonym of obscene, or something else?

am fighting to survive, not talking !

hello? anybody

as in polite

:958797

7:21 PM

which can be used in all occasion; in any situation

is it culturally dependent?

religional?

@KirkHammett of course!

@KirkHammett We work mostly from the FAQ english.stackexchange.com/faq

@KirkHammett do you have a specific example in mind?

Oh, wait, I misunderstood. Nevermind :)

@MrHen I'm not sure you did, maybe I did :)

7:22 PM

@zizi Eh? I don't understand. Maybe I missed an earlier conversation?

Why couldn't you finish a job that was assigned to you?

an example

@KirkHammett Ah, I see

@KirkHammett depends heavily on context (and tone)

I could imagine saying that in a conversation with a student, genuinely trying to understand what is the issue that is blocking their progress

I agree with Fx. It is hard to really say "this is or is not polite." Some things are obvious rude (like insults); most things involve tone and emotion from your voice

Hmmm that means a question mainly depends on the context and its appropriateness of the words used?

7:24 PM

or it could be said by the boss that to an low-level employee, being furious at him

@KirkHammett For politeness, yes.

A more polite counter-example: "Did you finish the job?"

@KirkHammett yes

I understand now

thank you guys :)

guys i have more questions to ask

don't mention it

F'x is here to answer questions

which is better to start of learning, normal grammar or the functional grammar?

7:26 PM

norctional

@MrHen is it possible to close a person?

@KirkHammett I believe functional grammar is the name of a linguistic theory (but that's not my field)

are there any rules to follow in this chat room or i have barged in ?

@KirkHammett nothing specific; general politeness (though the bar is much lower in chat that in the site, for example), willingness to listen to others, strong resistance to puns, etc.

@KirkHammett you're doing great

@zizi "Close" as in the way we close questions?

@MrHen exactly

7:33 PM

@zizi then no

even when someone is impolite like hell?

@zizi I believe you can delete you own account if you want; otherwise you can get banned or suspended which has the same basic effect.

@MrHen :O why then? you voted to close me?

@zizi Bans and suspensions don't work like that. Whatever vote you are seeing was for a question.

As in, the question was voted closed. It has nothing to do with you. Even I have had questions voted closed.

There is no penalty for it, as far as I know.

today while posting a question, the site din allow me to post it why?

7:37 PM

@KirkHammett I noticed the site was having trouble earlier. Things seem to be back to normal now.

the heading was "on this occasion"

i will ask the question here though

@MrHen there is a recently introduced small penalty: if the question is closed as off-topic, you will receive one automatic downvote

is the usage of "on this occasion" archaic?

@MrHen what should we do , in case that a user is impolite? except vote on closing

Point it out?

7:40 PM

@zizi You can flag impolite comments, questions and answers if you think a Moderator should step in. There is a little flag icon. But these are normally for really severe issues. The best thing to do for a typical case is simply ignore it.

If you are unsure about what to do you can also ask here in chat with a link

@zizi moreover, you can bring it up here and ask for advice on how to proceed if that really bothers you

@MrHen Jinx!

@KirkHammett It tends to be extremely formal. Generally there is a more common way to say it.

@Fx Well, @MikeVaughan even said something similar. :)

It was great shot on this occasion!(cricket)

@KirkHammett "It was a great shot this time" or "It was a great shot at this time" may work

"Event" may also work

Q: What is "She wears mink all day and fox all night" ?

2

It's not a pun, it's not a syllepsis. Is there a word for false-puns of this sort?

single-word-requests figures-of-speech

@MrHen: regarding the above, do you still no see the pun?

7:47 PM

omg, I cannot do stuffs as human being

How else do you do "stuffs"?

I thought , it's about the meaning of that old saying

@MrHen: one is not supposed to spell these out, but I will if you ask

i suck (?)

@Fx Eh... sort of. But I don't really think of it as a pun. The sentence can be read straightforward: She acts like a mink during the day; acts like a fox during the night.

The pun I can see is literally wearing mink furs at day and acting like a fox at night

But this is exactly the kind of thing the OP says it isn't

So... I am left confused

7:49 PM

@MrHen fox / fucks

:)

@Fx Hmm...

fox/sucks

i have to go and see a doctor

My accent may be interfering here.

/me checks MrHen's profile

/me flips out; I've been talking to a Texan, first time in my life

7:50 PM

@Fx That isn't my accent. I live in Texas; grew up in Minnesota

So I am Midwest

Those two words don't sound very similar to me.

@MrHen thanks; you have too many states for me to place them on a mental map

@Fx "Fox" rhymes with "locks"; "fucks" rhymes with "pucks" or "clucks" but has a heavy "uh" sound in it.

Q: Does the "@" symbol have a name?

0

In spanish, it's called "arroba". I saw this question, and it says it's called "commercial at" according to Wikipedia. A lot of languages have a single word name for this. Is there any single word name for the "@" symbol?

names symbol

Q: How do you native speakers pronounce @ in an email address?

2

Q: How to pronounce @ symbol?

How can I pronounce @ symbol: At / At the rate? Can I use it in a sentence? Please explain with an example.

pronunciation

2

Do you just pronounce it as "at"?

pronunciation

W.O.W

7:54 PM

It is answered in each of these questions; it's the at sign

Unicode character U+0040 COMMERCIAL AT

I voted to close the newer two.

if someone doesn't know how to pronounce it, then how can that person read his email for someone else

two or three?

@MrHen so, how does your pronunciation of "fox" differs from, let's say, Boston

@Fx Actually, it probably sounds similar to a Boston fox

f-aa-ah-uh-eks

the other is f-uh-eks

@MrHen now you got me confused

7:57 PM

The goofy slide is a Midwest thing

is it a diphtong?

@Fx Yes, but a tricky one

It goes from "a" as in "cat" through "ah" as in "cot" to "uh" as in "cut"

so, how does it compare to dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/fox_1

The initial "a" may be a leak I picked up from travelling

(the american one)

7:59 PM

@Fx I cannot listen to anything just now :P

@MrHen :)

actually, I think I'm closer to UK than US on that one

though I'm most often closer to US pronunciation, e.g. for rhoticity

North Central American English

North Central American English is used to refer to a dialect of American English. The region is also known as Upper Midwest among some linguists. Characteristics Not all of these characteristics are unique to the North Central region. Vowels * and are "conservative" in this region. In other words, these vowels don't undergo the fronting that is common in some other regions of the United States. * In addition to being conservative, may be monophthongal, sometimes with lengthening: ~ . The same is true for , which leads to variants like or , though data suggests that monophthongal ...

@Fx why are you trying to make us curious about your nationality?

nice answer

@zizi regulars here know my nationality, and there is no need to be curious, I will say it if you ask

you mean I'm not a regular here?

8:10 PM

@Fx Okay, it is like that but slides slightly at the end

Q: How do you pronounce "macrame"?

0

I've heard a couple of pronunciations "macra may", "ma craym", "ma craym". So, which is the correct one?

pronunciation

The dictionary is quite clear about which pronunciation is correct.

@Martha dictionaries from different countries give different answers

You mean English dictionaries from different countries give different answers?

@Martha I mean American English dictionaries give a different answer than British English ones

maybe it's still a general reference, I don't know

Q: Dealing with multiple layers of embedded quotes

then why they put both "UK" and "US" pronunciation there?

0

Let's say I want to write a question here at ELU about how to deal with punctuation in the case of embedded quotes. How would I deal with this three layered beast of a quote? "Something like "Is this meaning okay: 'The police suck because they are bad because they only want my money'?", perhaps?...

punctuation quotes

8:17 PM

@zizi that one clearly belongs on meta

Ok, I've done a little browsing, and there is some debate about which of the three syllables gets the stress; but all dictionaries, from any English-speaking country, agree that there are three syllables.

@Fx I'm not sure I agree: I think ELU is just being used as an example.

@Martha duh, you're right; me tired

@Martha Agreed.

and now, I feel stupid cause I can't retract this vote (and the request for feature on Meta was repeatedly declined)

Q: What's the Difference in Usage Between Using Single and Two Quotation Marks/Inverted Commas?

@Fx You don't get hurt for having a bad vote out there. It will go away on its own.

I am surprised this question hasn't been asked yet

But the closest I found was:

8

I'm quite unsure regarding the usage of single quotation marks (') and double quotation marks (") in English. I had thought that "s were usually used to quote sentences from passages/given sources, nouns/things ("Westminster Bridge", "alliteration", or "voice" regarding its usage in poetry), as ...

grammar punctuation differences quotes

Not at all a dupe

8:24 PM

how many users should vote to close a question?

@zizi It will close after five votes

english.stackexchange.com/privileges/close-questions

@Martha total comment jinx on the japery question

I deleted mine

@MrHen Oops, sorry!

@Martha You were first :)

@MrHen I can still be sorry, can't I? :)

@Martha Yes, but then you owe me a coke. :)

8:30 PM

(It's the old 'English doesn't distinguish between "I'm sorry" and "I apologize"' problem.)

@Martha ambiguous

I dub it a temporal-reverse-jinx (also known as, "trump")

@MrHen Ok, that's nice, but now who owes what to whom?

@Martha We each owe our future selves a coke.

8:45 PM

gotta go , enjoy your coke

Q: Did *breaking news* Come From the Phrasal Verb *break in*?

9:02 PM

Hi all

0

Studying phrasal verbs I found break in meaning as interruption. My teacher suggested that it can be also used in news as breaking news, but usually the midia use the gerund form. Actually, both sounds very similar in speech so I was wondering if breaking is an evolution of break in.

phrasal-verbs language-evolution

Dup of ?

7

Q: Why is news said to be "breaking"?

I was just wondering what the origins of "breaking news" or "we broke the story" are.

etymology

@AlainPannetier Looks like it. Voted.

@MrHen And the former question was definitely better.

@MrHen Ditto.

Hi @Alenanno. What's with the Yet Another Chinese Character Avatar?

Hey @Martha... Actually mine is intended to be Japanese

:D

Q: How to take the gender of an anonymous person into consideration?

Chinese, Japanese, whatever, they're all oriental and non-alphabetic. :D

This has got to be a dupe, but I'm lazy:

0

Hi, very often, I find myself writing about a user, an anonymous person, whose gender, amongst other things, I don't know. Right after mentioning this abstract user, I need to make a reference to the said person, and I often end up using he/she, as a shorter version of he or she. Example: ...

gender

9:09 PM

@Martha I had the same reaction

You're right, but while in Japanese you read it as "A" (among its other readings) in chinese it becomes "ya"... My name is Alessandro so...

@Martha Found it

Danke schön, voted.

@Alenanno, In Japanese you can read it in many ways.

yellowbridge.com/chinese/…

@AlainPannetier, yes, I wrote "among its other readings"

:D

9:18 PM

@Martha, I had to follow @MrHen's example and leave you as sole contender for the "jakery" question. For which I don't have any merit since my own guess was wrong... (I was actually relieved to sweep it under the carpet). That was a quick victory anyway.

@AlainPannetier "Wrong" answers aren't necessarily "bad" answers. Your guess was close enough to help future people looking for answers to similar questions.

thx ;-)

I agree with @MrHen, even if it doesn't answer properly to the question, precious info could be found in it.

RegDwight

/questions/11481/framing-a-question-to-which-the-answer-is-an-ordinal-number
vs.
/q/11481
Compare for yourself.

Gotta go.

CU.

@AlainPannetier Yeah, I noticed that. I wouldn't have deleted it, though: your answer was perfectly fine given the original premise of the question.

Um, @RegDwight, huh?

9:23 PM

@Martha I think he was talking to me

but...

Last I checked, 11481=11481.

I can't understand what he meant

I can't either.

@all... Upon popular request... blah blah

.../questions/11481/... and .../q/11481 are two different ways to link to the same question, aren't they?

Ok, now I don't understand what @AlainPannetier just said.

9:26 PM

This chat is a continuous riddle.

I think I need a nap. Or some alcohol. Or possibly both.

:D

Ahah

riddle? how you dare

@Martha An alcohol nap? That doesn't sound remotely healthy.

@zizi sorry, I don't understand... What's wrong with Riddle?

Maybe because of Voldemort lol

9:27 PM

@Martha, don't get drunk now, I just meant I just took back my answer from under the carpet.

better to say, what's right with riddle

I still can't understand what you're saying...

@AlainPannetier Ah, ok. I'm relieved.

willst du mich beleidigen?

@Alenanno I think it is, "How dare you make a riddle?" "What is wrong with riddles" "What is right with riddles?"

9:30 PM

@Alenanno He undeleted his answer to the 'jakery' question.

@zizi bist du Deutsch ?

@MrHen yes yes I grabbed his joke but...

it doesn't fit the situation lol

jep

@zizi nein

Deutsch?

oder eine tolle Deutsche

9:31 PM

lol

Mi lenne ha angolul beszélnétek egy Angol nyelvről szóló oldalon? :)

nichts zu lachen

Ich wusste, dass du nicht französisch war !

Oh what the crap.

Uhm... @Martha East European language? Sounds like so...

@MrHen lol :D

9:33 PM

Hungarian

If I start talking Texan will y'all knock it off?

I was suspecting so :D

@MrHen I'd like to see you try it. :D

What if I start speaking italian... Not like Peter Griffin, though lol

@Alenanno I don't know Hungarian, she mentions Hungarian a lot.

9:34 PM

@AlainPannetier Ah I see :)

yes, i see too, i have 2.1 eyes

@Martha when you linked the answer to me, I was actually talking to zizi :P

oh well... Answering, not talking

or fighting

As far as I'm concerned, actually no

who cares

9:42 PM

@Martha Back, sorry. I started thinking in Texan and forgot how to use the internet.

@MrHen ROFLMAO!

Dammit, now I have to try to explain to the boss why I'm giggling when I should be working.

BRB.

@Martha lol, bad situation

:D

9:55 PM

@Martha Oop. Sorry.

@MrHen give up Texan, you're attractive enough

Alain, noch da?

10:38 PM

@Martha @MrHen @AlainPannetier I'll go offline, catch you all soon :)

@Alenanno THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR ATTENTION

10:54 PM

@zizi, why are you shouting?