English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

simchona

7:01 PM

Welp.

Cerberus

Does this give you cause for reflection at all?

Or is the self always right, the other always wrong?

This user represents how many outsiders view our site.

simchona

0

A: How can I delete my account?

It is my decision too! I prefer more open minded spaces. I do not enjoy anymore. Many disgusting reactions,using offensive language and taking matters personal! This site only belong to some who give voted to their own disgusting comments and basic topics. They only need to new users to get more ...

It's not an answer.

Cerberus

Since when do we delete answers on Meta, and to what end?

Removing dissent...

simchona

It's not even an answer

waiwai933

@Cerberus SE is addressing this general issue of how new users view SE in the mod room right now, but that answer isn't an answer.

Cerberus

7:13 PM

I would have liked it to stay. It was relevant for me.

simchona

Relevance != answer

Cerberus

@waiwai933 Why don't you have them address how users view EL&U in particular, since we seem to have a bad reputation.

@simchona To what end delete non-answers?

waiwai933

@Cerberus Changes are being made across SE as a whole that is supposed to do a lot to fix the general issue, but you're always welcome to bring up suggested improvements for EL&U specifically on meta.

simchona

@Cerberus When they don't even address a point, and won't help anyone get an answer to "how do I delete an account"

Cerberus

How can changes like this be "made"?

@simchona I ask again, what purpose does it serve to delete that?

waiwai933

7:15 PM

@Cerberus SE engine changes; you'll see soon enough (a week maybe)

Cerberus

You cannot change this by means of software.

It is a conflict between groups of people.

simchona

@Cerberus It wasn't an answer. Posts that are not answers are removed. It's not like I'm just making shit up.

ElendilTheTall

@cerberus might as well join you in here

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall How convenient!

You are so attentive.

ElendilTheTall

We aim to please

Cerberus

7:18 PM

@simchona This is Meta. It makes that user even more desperate and angry. What purpose does it serve? But you don't have an answer, so never mind. Let's drop it.

@ElendilTheTall Better aim well, then.

Or you'll miss it.

simchona

@Cerberus Feelings are important, but it doesn't mean "don't delete non-answers"

Cerberus

Why don't you just answer, "there is no purpose at all, but we just follow the rules".

waiwai933

This room was placed in timeout for 30 seconds.

simchona

I seriously don't appreciate the one-sided deletion you're doing, @waiwai933. If you're going to delete an argument, delete all of it.

Cerberus

I said "let's drop the subject", and you didn't. So you can't blame me for continuing to criticise you.

And, Wai, that was completely unnecessary. A moderator doesn't need to be "protected" by another moderator.

Bleh. All this negativity, and for NO GOOD REASON.

simchona

7:25 PM

@Cerberus, I agree that the deletion makes the user angry. I did, however, leave a comment asking that user to come into chat to discuss their feelings. I didn't just blindly delete it.

Cerberus

I read it. You posted that after he had already posted his objections here, and you knew it.

And can he even read a deleted comment?

ElendilTheTall

Draw a line under the whole thing, and ponder this:

simchona

Yes, I do know it. But he dropped his comments and left, and then went on to post non-answers twice

Cerberus

No, I disagree with all this, the way newcomers are treated on our site. Tolerance is much better than all these negative emotions that are stirred up in various people by intolerance.

@ElendilTheTall Haha, you wouldn't believe how often that has been posted here.

And it is true.

Apparently, it is too hard for people to close a tab if they don't like what they see...

ElendilTheTall

It is all too easy to take things far too seriously online

You have to remember to stop and ask yourself, "Does this actually matter?"

Cerberus

7:33 PM

Yeah.

Does it matter when people's feelings are hurt?

ElendilTheTall

Strangers' feelings?

Depends on the hurt

If someone was being systematically victimised, that's obviously a bad thing.

But if it's just a comment on SE about a bad question or something, I would expect them to be a grown-up and realise that, again, it doesn't matter

Cerberus

Hurting the feelings of strangers to the point of their being angry and sad and leaving the site?

ElendilTheTall

How insecure do you have to be for a comment by a total stranger on an inconsequential website to hurt your feelings?

Cerberus

Have your feelings never been hurt on the Internet?

ElendilTheTall

Not that I know of

Cerberus

7:37 PM

Perhaps I was too soft on you! Grrr...

ElendilTheTall

I don't give a flying fuck about what anyone thinks of me, certainly not internet strangers

Cerberus

What if I started calling you names right now, and all the time in the Pan?

Wouldn't you hate that?

simchona

@Cerberus Here:

0

Q: I dislike this site

I think this site and some other sites with this kind of moderating doesn't deserve wasting time. I was here to learn but I had to face with some narrow minded members who attacked me by offensive, racial trends and sexism! They after my polite and reasonable replies made the topic frozen and del...

discussion

I had to change the title, but I'm not deleting it. Why? It's not a false answer to a question.

Cerberus

Ah, good.

You could transform the answer into a question next time, when you feel it isn't an answer.

ElendilTheTall

@Cerberus lol, no. That would do nothing but prove you're a dick. It makes no difference to me.

simchona

7:39 PM

We can't convert answers to questions, though.

Not with any sort of workflow we've been given

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall Wouldn't it make you hate being in the chat room, if I talked you down all the time while there?

simchona

Also, this user insists on rolling back my title.

I may have to lock the damn thing.

Cerberus

You could just copy-paste it.

simchona

> Carlo, Sorry I have no discussion with you as I remember you last comment under my reply to a topic which were referring it to my culture and nationality ! It was a real racist like idea and was very sorry for you! So I ignored you and will not reply you. You need some important improvement in your language as a human then you can enjoy of getting useless votes and try down votes. Disgusting!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus chat has an easy option: ignore user. no more insults!

simchona

7:41 PM

Also, @Cerb--the user was rude as well, multiple times. It just happened to get removed.

ElendilTheTall

@Cerberus I would probably just block you to prevent the annoying pop-up

Cerberus

@MattЭллен And yet nobody ever seems to do that. Blocking someone appears to be mentally impossible for all of us. We don't want to miss secret gossip, and we don't want to see a broken flow of conversation. You can't tell me that everything is peachy again after you block a regular user in your room: you will still hate the situation. According to my observations, people just go to the room less when they are in a serious conflict.

@ElendilTheTall I'm not a pop-up!

I'm real.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus true. that can happen

Cerberus

nods

Ergo, people's feelings can get hurt on the Internet.

simchona

Feelings can get hurt, but this user wasn't victimized. He volleyed a few shots of his own

ElendilTheTall

7:46 PM

@Cerberus Saying things like that around me is dangerous. I will block you forever just to make a point

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall No!!! You wou—

(He blocked me, damn that man with his elven blood.)

Matt Эллен

eleven blood!

Cerberus

...

Matthew, have you checked out the question on our site about countable and uncountable nouns?

Matt Эллен

lol

I am not countable nouns

Cerberus

I didn't ask you whether you were checking yourself out. I already know to what degree you are a narcissist.

ElendilTheTall

7:56 PM

@Cerberus No, I just wanted to see how quickly you had a breakdown. And that's Elven and Maia blood, mofo

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall Maia, really? Whose? Melian or summin?

Okay, I broke down. You know I am like that.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I didn't get to be this way without a lot of self love

Cerberus

Haha.

I see.

Self love ftw!

Better than an inflatable doll, I guess.

ElendilTheTall

@Cerberus Yes. Melian > Luthien > Dior > Earendil > Elros ------> Yours truly

Cerberus

Right. But, wait. There must be many ancestors in between Elros and you, right?

ElendilTheTall

8:04 PM

Yes, lots

Hence the extra heiphens

@Cerberus how's your patented Steam-Driven Difference Engine doing?

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall OK, fair enough, the highphens.

user19161

Hi @ele we were wondering why you deleted your ELU account in the past...

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall I possess no such devillish machines! Steam power, the thought alone...

@JasonBourne Were we? This we didn't even know.

user19161

Hey @matt you look so green today.

Matt Эллен

Thanks! I polished my head

Cerberus

8:12 PM

Hi Jasper, you look so blue today.

ElendilTheTall

@JasonBourne It was taking up too much of my time, so I went cold turkey

user19161

You look so doggie today @cer.

Cerberus

And, what do you know, I'm listening to "Am I Blue?" at the moment!

Thanks.

Matt Эллен

lol

user19161

@ElendilTheTall OK, I deleted all my accounts too, except one.

Cerberus

8:17 PM

Why?

ElendilTheTall

@Cerberus Why not?

Cerberus

Because it involves the tedious task of clicking buttons?

ElendilTheTall

Actually it involves sending an e-mail

ElendilTheTall

8:44 PM

Ok, so explain something to me

Matt Эллен

anything in particular?

ElendilTheTall

Why is it that when someone asks a valid question on an SE site, there's always someone who comments "Google it!" or the equivalent. I thought the point is that if the answer is on the SE site, when someone Googles it they will come to SE

Matt Эллен

Ah. Yes. So did we.

Then we got the Gen Ref close reason

simchona

@ElendilTheTall Do you mean the medicine/medicinal question? Because doing some work before asking a question is generally expected

Matt Эллен

apparently people are meant to try to answer their question themselves

ElendilTheTall

8:47 PM

@simchona Why?

More answers = more hits

it's not like it costs anything to answer

2

simchona

@ElendilTheTall I'm trying to find a canonical answer; one sec

147

Q: Introduce a "general reference" close reason

There is a certain amount of questions that are absolutely trivial in nature: How to format a date, how to concatenate a string, et cetera. Questions that could be solved by taking a look into the manual. Random examples from the tags I frequent: php timestamp function needed http://stackoverf...

feature-request status-declined close-reasons general-reference

ElendilTheTall

I thought the point of SE was to create the most comprehensive store of answers on a given subject

simchona

There's validity to your point, but the way SE went with it was that the simple questions end up clogging things I think

TRiG

@ElendilTheTall Which means you could conceivably use EL&U to duplicate a dictionary, which really wouldn't be a good use of anyone's time.

ElendilTheTall

hmmmmm

simchona

8:52 PM

The benefit of having people look something up is that they can ask a more nuanced question--which lets people use a bit more skill to answer.

For example, if two definitions are confusing, someone can ask for more context, connotation, or clarification of each

TRiG

@ElendilTheTall "Gen Ref" is not about "too easy", though there's often a certain amount of overlap (it's often easy questions which are closed as general reference, but that's not the reason). A general reference question is one that is well-answered elsewhere in a standard reference work for the subject concerned.

Hugo

@ElendilTheTall There's no point in creating an ad-hoc dictionary on English.SE when there's real, free dictionaries that are constantly updated by professionals.

ElendilTheTall

I can understand that for a question like "What does 'medical' mean?", but I think a comparison between two similar words is valid - perhaps the person has already checked the dictionary and wants further clarification

Hugo

@ElendilTheTall I think we have a meta about "What's the difference between X and Y?" and the consensus was they're ok (or can be). Unlike simple "What does X mean?" that can be answered by a dictionary.

simchona

@ElendilTheTall Yes, and those questions are allowed. That's why people ask "did you Google first" so we know that there's a deeper question

Hugo

8:59 PM

Here it is:
http://meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/3290/closing-questions-about-differences

Matt Эллен

and if they have already checked, they need to tell us that, and what they already know, so we don't rake over corpses

or whatever the idiom is

Robusto

Fuck. Every time I get close to 80k another user gets deleted. It feels like a conspiracy.

2

Matt Эллен

it is

Robusto

I knew it!

Matt Эллен

people come here, vote you up, complain about how their questions get closed and then delete their accounts. this is all sponsored by Someone You Know

Robusto

9:08 PM

I just want to retire. Seriously. I am in all likelihood going to be getting a serious new job one of these days and then you won't see me around much, if at all. Would be nice to get to 80K first, but if that doesn't happen, well, then it doesn't.

Technically, neither of those is a sentence. Each is a sentence fragment. Second, articles: you seem to be missing some. Also context. — Robusto 9 secs ago

Matt Эллен

Will the new job be answering questions about English? You're good at that.

Robusto

No. It won't be. Nor will it involve anagrams, poetry, or artful derogation.

aedia λ

But... but... who will pull the rug out from under us then?

Robusto

Some new sucker. See if you can get Barrie to do it.

Wait, that isn't really his strength, is it?

Maybe John Lawler? He could blind you with science.

Matt Эллен

and formatting

Robusto

9:15 PM

AND and

tchrist might be UP to the TASK, but you wouldn't be able to wade through his text & code points &c. Ligatures.

utxeee, we now have a beta site more specifically tailored to English Language Learners. Here, on ELU, many might consider the question too basic. This might also be the reason of @Robusto's comment. At any rate, be aware that the ELL site exists, have a look and make yourself comfortable. Thank you. — Carlo_R. 4 mins ago

Well, the blind really can lead the blind. Who knew?

Matt Эллен

lol

Robusto

"The President asked you to act": worst email solicitation for the Democratic Party ever.

Oh, and did he now? Well, Patrick, don't get your panties in a bunch about it.

Matt Эллен

And if the President asked us all to jump off a cliff, would you? Learn to be independent!

aedia λ

they haven't your rapier wit
your succinctness, your style, your grit
they'd be prompt and true
but we'd still be blue
if you leave ELU'll lose its rhyme

Robusto

I see what you did there

@MattЭллен Learn to be libertarian!

Matt Эллен

9:31 PM

Learn to libate!

Robusto

I'm libationing as we speak.

I just got a statement from Amazon. If my calculations are correct, I sold about 1,000 digital books last year. That's an order of magnitude more than the previous year. Now, if that progression just keeps up, in about three years I can retire comfortably.

Either that or I should just up my price by three orders of magnitude and retire this year.

Matt Эллен

yes! do both!

retire twice and collect twice the pension

that's how it works, right?

aedia λ

retire every night and get rich while you sleep?

Robusto

That does sound appealing.

this.retire = function(revenue){
  var savings = 0;
  addSavings = function(amt) {
    savings += amt;
    if (savings === enough) {
      party();
      }
  }
  return addSavings;
}()

I think I screwed something up, but I don't care. The principle is what counts.

user19161

10:22 PM

@ElendilTheTall This is just my own opinion, but where I draw the line is this. Ask on SE if there is some subtlety, otherwise it should not be asked as it is too easy to get a good answer by looking up. Of course, different people will consider the same thing to be subtle or not.

user19161

@Robusto Wow, I didn't know you were such a great author.

user19161

Hey @trig I would love to see you after the hair cut you mentioned, you can post a new pic if you want!

Mitch

@Robusto but you'll notice his English is infinitely better than 6 months ago

the content of what he says...I don't know.

Zing!

user19161

Hey @mitch we meet again! Why did you go to the other room just to reply to one of my lines it seems?

Mitch

Meet again? I hardly knew her?

Wait..that's not teh right punch lne.

user19161

10:26 PM

I see there has been some drama on ELU meta recently...

Mitch

@ElendilTheTall Responding to GenRef questions does cost something. It costs tiny little pieces of your soul whenever you are compelled to write LMGTFY or give a link to what you found on google, or copy/paste what the online dictionary said. It also costs the numbnut who asked the GR question pieces of their soul for wasting time typing a long question into ELU when they could have typed something shorter into google.

Cerberus

@Mitch That's not true at all. 1.) You don't have to answer if you don't like the question. It costs you nothing to ignore it. 2.) There are enough people who do like answering those questions.

Mitch

@JasonBourne re: meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/3710/…: __ "This site and its old users... " __ If I could only reach my cane I would hit him with it. Ow, my back hurts thinking about it.

@Cerberus You obviously have no soul left to be eaten away by the maggots of self contempt. Or GenRef answering.

@JasonBourne What? like a day or so ago? Just visiting to see what's going on, then I see you there, so I reply, but then I had to go do something in real life. Kind of the entire story.

@simchona: so is SnowFlake a problem or is he/she just disgruntled and will leave willingly?

user19161

10:43 PM

@Mitch Haha, well that does not apply to me any more, I am a non-user of ELU!

Mitch

He really got his nose bent out of shape. I think he was expecting way too much.

user19161

@Mitch Considering he is a very new user of this site, his words are pretty strong.

Mitch

and hadn't spent time looking around first, getting used to things.

user19161

I can understand though why he doesn't like the site. I have had similar strong comments on my correct answers, such as "favour" vs "favourite".

Mitch

@JasonBourne yeah, strongish, not as inflammatory as .. well, maybe yeah, kinda inflammatory.

@JasonBourne link? I can't find it looking by 'favourite'

user19161

10:47 PM

3

Q: "Favored" vs. "favorited"

We're making a website in which users can mark some objects as objects they like. Since we're not native English speakers here, a dispute evolved around what's the correct way to call this user-object relationship in the past tense: favored or favorited. For example, should it be Jack favored Jil...

meaning word-choice past-participle

Cerberus

refrains from commenting on Mitch's soul

or heart

Mitch

or lack thereof

@JasonBourne there's no answer of yours there... -oh- is that because you deleted your account?

user19161

@Mitch HAHA, I am user 2683, QED.

Cerberus

indeed

user19161

@Mitch Well, I think we all just need to have a thicker skin and accept strong words on the internet.

user19161

10:55 PM

By the way, math doesn't have a GR close reason.

Mitch

@JasonBourne but they do often close as 'too elementary' by usually too localized

hm..sorry.. there's mathoverflow.net which genrefs to math.stackexchange. and theoretical computer science which genrefs to cs.

@JasonBourne so where is your question that people complained about? ...link directly to answer.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…