English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-03-31 (page 3 of 4)

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3:01 PM

@MrHen I thought it was called Omicron Persei 8?

When Aliens Attack

"When Aliens Attack" is episode twelve in season one of Futurama. It originally aired in North America on November 7, 1999. This episode was written by Ken Keeler and directed by Brian Sheesley. The episode features an attack by aliens from Omicron Persei 8 who are outraged when the final episode of Earth show Single Female Lawyer is interrupted by technical difficulties. Much of the episode, particularly the method in which the aliens attack, is a spoof of the 1996 film Independence Day. Plot The episode opens in the year 1999, with Fry making a pizza delivery to the control booth of WN...

@RegDwight That was a good episode. :)

@MrHen I even know when you first saw it. November 7th, 2009.

@RegDwight — Stop scaring the newbies.

That's not scaring. That's addition.

Addition is a mathematical operation that represents combining collections of objects together into a larger collection. It is signified by the plus sign (+). For example, in the picture on the right, there are 3 + 2 apples—meaning three apples and two other apples—which is the same as five apples. Therefore, 3 + 2 = 5. Besides counting fruits, addition can also represent combining other physical and abstract quantities using different kinds of numbers: negative numbers, fractions, irrational numbers, vectors, decimals and more. Addition follows several important patterns. It is commut...

@RegDwight — Like I said, stop scaring the newbies. Advanced math is scary to Americans.

3:08 PM

I'm just promoting Math.SE.

I feel like I shouldn't be involved in this discussion about me.

Mathematics – math.stackexchange.com

Launched Q&A site for people studying math at any level & professionals in related fields

@Robusto See? It says "any level". Including American.

But it uses the word "mathematics" — that in itself frightens most Americans. You have to ease us into concepts like that.

Start by calling it "sex" and bring up the actual theorems once you have everybody's attention.

What would Rush Limbaugh say?

He'd say Obama is at fault.

What was the question?

3:12 PM

ObamaIsAtFault.SE.

Catchy!

I think Nobama.SE is catchier.

@Robusto Actually, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Sex.SE probably will never take off.

Or NObama. Which is what the Teabaggers use.

@RegDwight — Right. What was I thinking?

73

Everything You Always Wanted to Know about Sex but were Afraid to Ask

Proposed Q&A site for anyone who likes sex and thinks it's a fun and pleasurable thing; anyone wanting to improve his/her sex life.

Currently in commitment.

What if you're not afraid to ask?

3:14 PM

@RegDwight i sure as hell would not want my sex.se profile cross-linked to my SO profile that employers see

for example

35% commitment. After 10 months.

@JSBangs A very valid point indeed. Though nobody says you should crosslink. Use your puppet vgv8.

@RegDwight "puppet vgv8" or "puppet, vgv8"?

He can use either.

13

How to Attract the Opposite Sex

Proposed Q&A site for people who want to pick up girls / guys.

Currently in definition.

@RegDwight are you serious? There's a PUA.se proposal?

color me repulsed

"How to make the opposite sex run off in disgust" would attract many more experts.

2

Unix & Linux – unix.stackexchange.com

Launched Q&A site for advanced users of Linux, FreeBSD and other Un*x-like operating systems.

Actually, if I search Area51 for "Sex" I also get these:

64

Proposed Q&A site for people that love animals, breed them go to competitions with them, etc.

Currently in definition.

14

Proposed Q&A site for bird watchers, bird fans, and bird brains. People who are fascinated by birds and want to know more about them.

Currently in definition.

53

Proposed Q&A site for objective discussion and questions about governments, policies and political processes.

Currently in definition.

So @Robusto's spot on as usual: every proposal is about sex.

3:23 PM

As is life itself.

Not quite.

There is also survival, and IVF.

Post that to Philosophy.SE, and bang! Another site closed within minutes.

What, did phil get closed??

Better?

Oh, it would be closed if Rob posted that.

3:26 PM

Rob was going to post 42 everywhere, IIRC.

Is that one of those weird rules I can never remember?

But that would get him more rep than any person can handle.

@Cerberus O.M.F.G.

If anyone could, it would be he.

42 (forty-two) is the natural number following 41 and preceding 43. The number has received considerable attention in popular culture because of its appearance in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, as the "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything". In mathematics * Given 27 same-size cubes whose nominal values progress from 1 to 27, a 3×3×3 magic cube can be constructed such that every row, column, and corridor, and every diagonal passing through the center, comprises 3 cubes whose sum of values is 42. * Forty-two is a pronic number and an abundant nu...

2 days ago, by JPmiaou

@Robusto This came up in conversation the other day: apparently Douglas Adams said in an interview once that 42 was a reference to God playing dice. (Two six-sided dice have 42 dots total.)

Ah, I see. Popular culture is my greatest hiatus...

And I should go. Later!

3:28 PM

The one you're thinking of is Rule 34.

CU.

i think this is distinct enough to not be an actual dup, so i answered

0

Q: "Who" vs. "Whom" as the Only Word in a Sentence

I understand that "who" is for the subject and "whom" is for the object. However, sometimes they are used as the only word in a sentence. For example: Person 1: Yeah, he ate the entire cake. Person 2: Who(m)? Which form is correct? I can see it being short for both "Who is the person who at...

object subject whom

Jesus Christ, people actually argue that in "Yeah, he ate the entire cake. Who?", who is a shortcut for "Whom are you talking about"?

Some people will argue anything just to get themselves confused for no freaking reason whatsoever.

look at the top four starred items right now. they're from three different conversations, but it's more fun to pretend that they all belong together

Feb 16 at 16:04, by RegDwight

Have pun fretending!

Too bad they will get re-ordered soon.

3:45 PM

Pinging all experts:

0

A: What is the lexical class of the word 'worth' when used in a sentence like "Is this apple worth $3?"

This isn't entirely an answer but I couldn't express all of this in a comment. Messing around with the word and phrase seems to show a handful of similar sentences: Is this apple worth $3? Is this apple worth an orange? Is this $3 worth $4 Is this apple worth an orange? ...

I wouldn't mind a sanity check to make sure I am not completely off the mark.

Also, is there a way to unflag something after an edit?

4:07 PM

Oh, sorry, was too busy shopping for Lego. Gotta go now, will check out that question later. Unflagging is not supported, for all I know. There's only one workaround, I think: if you flag something after an edit, then the flag can be undone by rolling back the edit.

TTYL.

4:22 PM

@MrHen Three is more than four: more is an adjective; than is a special kind of conjunction that is usually said to link the entire main clause to an elliptic clause than four [is], while it is also somehow linked to the adjective more specifically.

@Cerberus Does "more than" get its own term, or is it just "adjective+conjunction"?

Just adjective + conjunction, as far as I know; you could have the same construction with an adverb: I love you more than him.

Cf. the conjunction as, which functions similarly.

@Cerberus So do some adjetives just get conjunctions and some do not?

Well, they usually say the clause gets a conjunction, not one word. But the conjunction "than" usually requires a comparative adjective or adverb.

You can say "I love you more" without "than".

@Cerberus You can but it is either implicit or incorrect.

@Cerberus Yeah, that makes sense. (I thought I said this already but the internet ate my comment. :P )

4:32 PM

It is implicit that you are comparing it to something; you could say that the word "than" itself would be implicit; or you could say that it isn't. Hard to say.

@Cerberus Is there another word that would work other than "than"?

"I love you more [?]"

In many cases, you don't need a specific word:

She and the others went to work.

@Cerberus I don't understand.

I want something other than a bra.

In the first sentence, you probably didn't think of an implicit "than".

You could say it was "she and others than she", though.

@Cerberus I still don't. Are you talking about "others" as in "people other than she"?

4:35 PM

Yes.

@Cerberus Okay, sure. This would be like "worth."

Oh?

I'm not so sure I see any resemblance beyond their both being adjectives...

@Cerberus Right, I guess that is what I am getting at.

As in, they are comparatory adjectives that do not use "than"

I don't think worth is comparative at all?

Yeah, it is. "Is this worth that?"

It is or it is not.

4:39 PM

So how is that a comparative? Which two things are being compared?

This and that.

More strictly, "the worth of this" and "the worth of that."

So what if I say: she was aged 22. Is that a comparative?

The comparative would be: "Is she older than him?"

Age is to older as worth is to worth

Worth is only confusing in the sense that it works in both places

When you say "this is worth that", you are equating, not comparing. A mathematical representation of that could be this = that.

Oh, I think I see what you mean.

Equating is a comparison. "Definition" would be "equating" without "comparing."

"I am 8" is not a comparison

"I am equal to 8" is a comparison

4:42 PM

An equation can be a comparison, but it can also be something else.

How so?

"I equal 8" would have been a better way for me to word that.

Okay, I am talking about the grammatical definition: if you say something is bigger than something else, "bigger" is a comparative; if you say "she is as big as he", "big" is not a comparative.

Unfortunately, "is" is ambiguous.

It can be a defining statement, yes.

"She is big." -> "She is [big as he is]."

"She is as big as he is" can mean that, or it can mean "She is as big [as he is]."

Which is comparative.

"She is as big as a house."

Okay, you are using the word "comparative" in a non-technical way.

Er, I guess I am using it as I would in CS.

How does it work in Linguistics?

4:47 PM

Usually, only words that can be followed by "than" are considered comparatives. A comparative is the middle word in this: big, bigger, biggest. Just that simple.

Bah. I think that is useless.

Ah well... good to know at least.

Well, you are using the word comparative to describe a sentence, not a word; and you use it to describe the intention of the writer, not so much the syntax of the sentence.

Fair enough.

That is fine; but then I'd say that it is as suitable for comparing things as any other adjective.

@Cerberus I don't understand.

4:50 PM

I can say "this apple is red like that apple".

I am comparing apples.

Yes. I guess I don't see the point.

I can say "my teacher is a hottie".

That is a definition, not a comparison.

That is just the function of the copula "to be".

Right; like I said, "is" is ambiguous with what I am referring to.

4:52 PM

Why is that not also a comparison? I am defining my teacher, yes, but I am also comparing her to what a "hottie" is.

I am not really trying to defend what I am talking about.

Now that I understand what the linguistic term is I can update my use and interpretations

@Cerberus No you aren't. "X is Y" is just a definition. Something else needs to flag it for comparison.

I just don't thing there is anything special about the lexical category of "worth"; the inly thing special about it is that it takes a modifier without any conjunction or preposition, as most other adjectives do.

Well then I don't understand your definition of comparison.

@Cerberus I agree. I was able to find a handful of other words to use in the ramble "answer" thing I gave.

+1 for @Cerberus

@Cerberus A comparison needs two or more objects and compares something between them.

4:55 PM

I have compared her to what I think a hottie is; then I conclude that, yes, she is one: the comparison results in an affirmative conclusion.

Is part of the problem that "worth" is both the property (like 'height') and the measure (like 'tall')?

@Cerberus There isn't a comparison. "I am hot" is not a comparison. There is only one object.

The "something between them", the tertium comparationis, is implicit: I am comparing whatever aspects of her I find relevant, such as looks, sex appeal, etc.

@Cerberus You are not comparing those things to anything

@Rhodri: I don't think so, as the OP asked about "x is worth y" specifically, if I remember correctly.

4:57 PM

"She is hotter than he." She and he are being compared.

Eh, you compare x to y based on z: x is the teacher; y is my concept of hottie; z is the tertium comparationis, the things they have in common, whatever those may be.

Now you are switching back to the traditional, grammatical definition of "comparative".

@Cerberus "Your concept of hottie" isn't being compared. You are using that concept to define the teacher.

I am doing both.

@Cerberus "She is as hot as he."

It is both a definition and a comparison.

4:58 PM

@Cerberus In your head, maybe, but not in the sentence, "She is a hottie."

"She is a hottie" is like saying "Her name is Ruth."

You are not comparing her name to Ruth

"She is like a hottie" would be comparing her to your definition of hottie

I think the problem here is our definition of "defining" and "comparing": they aren't quite clear.

@Cerberus Sure.

I agree.

My concept of a comparative sentence is that you need two objects and some form of comparing them.

Definition just takes properties from one and puts them on the other

"Is" is confusing because people use it for both purposes

There are two definitions of "comparison" that I can understand: 1. grammatical comparison, which works with a comparative degree ("bigger"); 2. loosely used, whenever you describe a situation in which you or someone else compares some things, as you would call it in ordinary life.

I can look at nearly any sentence and filter it but I have a hard time describing the differences between them.

Okay, I guess mine would be closer to the 2nd but more strict.

"some form of comparing them": what do you mean by that exactly?

I am having a hard time using some definition between 1 and 2.

5:02 PM

A reference or measurement or... I don't know what the term is.

X is more than Y

X is like Y

X is as Y as Z

The latter can be either a definition or comparison depending on use

X is [as Y as Z]

X is as Y [as Z]

Hmm. There's an implicit comparison going on with "worth" that has to be explicit with other properties.

I think that's because it is both the property and the measure

So semantically "worth" does double duty in a sentence like "Is X worth Y?"

I don't understand.

@Cerberus Who are you talking to?

We'd say "Is Fred six feet tall?" but... hang on, I'm confusing myself now.

I doubt whether you guys are discussing lexical categories.

5:06 PM

@Rhodri "Worth" has an implicit "at least" in it.

@MrHen: Yes, true.

@Cerberus Sure. I stopped discussing that a while ago.

@MrHen when it's the measure.

@Rhodri (Redacted.)

"What's it worth, then?"

5:07 PM

I think.

But what do you @Rhodri mean when you say "worth is the measure", and why is that problematic?

@Rhodri Ah, I see. I misunderstood before the edit.

I'm trying to draw the distinction between "height" and "tall", and I'm muddling myself.

Height is a property things have, and they can have much or little of it.

@Rhodri "Tall" is relative; "height" is static.

"Tall" is a word we use when measuring height

5:09 PM

Yes. I don't think "height" has anything to do with "this is worth a ton": it is just of the tall type.

@Rhodri Tall is still a property, though, ya?

"Tallness", which is what I think I missed earlier.

@Cerberus You can detect that side of "worth" by replacing it with "worthless."

Yes, that makes sense.

@MrHen There the word "worth" is used in its noun sense. But that is just very different, not related.

The fact that that "worth" can be both adjective and noun is remarkable, granted; but in our sentence it is just clearly an adjective, no problem there, as far as I'm concerned...

19 mins ago, by Cerberus

I just don't thing there is anything special about the lexical category of "worth"; the inly thing special about it is that it takes a modifier without any conjunction or preposition, as most other adjectives do.

5:13 PM

@Cerberus Agreed.

I'm sorry I quoted myself, bad spelling and all...

:)

Spelling sucks. It should be abplished.

To wrap up everything from earlier: I now know what "comparative" means with regards to words. You and I disagree on the difference between "comparison" and "definition" but this has nothing to do with lexical categories.

(I didn't do that on purpose.)

To that I can agree!

5:16 PM

Okay. I apparently haven't found the words to clearly describe my position on that front... so I'm willing to drop it and ponder it at a later date.

@Cerberus Agreed too.

Woohoo, I just got my first Silver badge

I hit the rep cap for the first time, which is worth a woohoo too

The noo

Congratulations on these marvellous feats!

@MrHen: Sorry to reopen the conversation, but I think the implicit "at least" on "worth" is context dependent

Consider "Are you sure it's worth [as much as] a tenner?"

5:30 PM

Exactly.

Two more votes for @jgbelacqua and (I think) one more vote for @Rhodri on this question:

22

A: Is it acceptable to use "especially" at the beginning of a sentence?

Your instincts are on the money. The basic form of the sentence should be: action/conclusion[,] [especially] if condition. That said, this is one of those rules that you can break if you do so knowingly. Splitting the sentence in two before "especially" adds extra emphasis (as in @Ed Guin...

... and Rhodri will have a nice new shiny badge.

It already earned me my mortarboard, so I'm happy :-)

I am glad you are keeping thwack of badges too, @Martha.

@Rhodri Ah, but Populist is a gold badge. :)

@Cerberus Now, now, you know better than that.

@Martha Is it gold-covered chocolate?

5:36 PM

@Rhodri I don't know. I've never managed to unwrap my Fanatic badge, so I don't know if there's any chocolate in there.

Potential chocolate that you can't get at? That's just cruel.

@Martha — I thought you weren't supposed to shill in chat.

Is it shilling if I have no stake in it?

@Rhodri A little late, but yeah, you are very likely correct.

If it's a gold badge, it's at least a sovereign :-)

5:47 PM

THWACK!

@Martha So, has anything ever resulted in a double-thwack?

I don't remember. I remember some quintuple-thwacks, but I'm too lazy to go find them. (They may have been in comments rather than in chat.)

Okay, so how does "live" not rhyme with "olive"?

Perhaps he's being picky about the stress patterns?

Should I flag obvious flamebait or trollish answers such as:

2

A: What is the pejorative for people who only practice their faith while at the place of worship?

Whited sepulchres. This is what they are called in that noted work of fiction " The Bible", King James' Version.

Or just edit them?

Or something else?

5:59 PM

I'd go with "edit", but I'm an active Christian so you should take my opinion in this particular case with a large pinch of salt.

I went with edit.

I'm sorry, but I have rejected that edit.

@Cerberus Why?

It was not an invective against religion, but just an innocent little joke.

We should be very careful with editing posts of others.

@Cerberus Okay... then I will flag it.

6:03 PM

Yeah, flagging would be appropriate.

In fact I will put it in a question on meta.

I figured an edit would be less overkill.

It is an obvious and unnecessary dig at a particular religious group.

I think the joke is fine; but of you don't, then flagging would probably be the way to go.

@Cerberus I don't really think (off-topic) jokes are necessary anyway.

@Cerberus I don't personally find it offense but someone else surely will.

Well, people make innocent digs at all kinds of groups in answers... I think that's fine. But I will put in on meta; perhaps most people will disagree.

@Cerberus I am not sure any of them are appropriate. I tend to be more restrictive when it comes to digs and jokes other people think are innocent.

6:09 PM

Some constraint is good. But I don't feel a joke like this would be too much.

@Cerberus Fair enough. Each has their own opinion on where to draw the line. :)

@Cerberus Like @MrHen said. I'm not personally offended, but it does scream of flamebait to me.

See my question + answer on meta.

Add your own answer or vote, if you're interested.

0

Q: Are minor jokes in answers and questions OK when they are slightly discriminating against certain groups?

Consider this answer: What is the pejorative for people who only practice their faith while at the place of worship? Whited sepulchres. This is what they are called in that noted work of fiction " The Bible", King James' Version. Is this joke OK? If not, what should be done about it?...

discussion on-topic-off-topic

6:26 PM

here's another one sure to leap to the top of the SE network rankings

1

Q: How did the word "beaver" come to be associated with vagina?

What is the etymology of the word Beaver as it relates to a women's vagina?

@Cerberus Upvoted the question and disagreed in answer, naturally :-)

@JSBangs — Seriously.

@Rhodri: Excellent!

It puts a whole new light on the Music Hall number "Are you a beaver?"

I'm working on a vagina question as we speak. I'll let you know when I'm ready to release it on the world.

6:31 PM

Right, time for me to go and sing for my supper. As it were.

@Robusto You missed a good "birth" pun. Sad.

@Cerberus Done and done.

@Martha has him well trained.

@MrHen — Well, now you've made me sad. I guess that's pre-partum depression.

@Robusto Very nice. +1 for recovery.

@MrHen what does it say about me that I read a "birth" pun into the statement in question even where none was intended?

6:34 PM

@JSBangs That says you are much like me. :)

Bye Rhodri!

dplay.com/audio/Orsonplay.htm

Yeah his talent permeates even bad acting.

How sad that such a great talent should be reduced to shilling for frozen peas.

Is that shilling too?

6:41 PM

Yes. Just like the Dutch Boys.

Hey. We are pure and honest.

Feb 17 at 19:20, by Martha

OWWWW! That's terrible! THWACK THWACK THWACK THWACK THWACK!

Mar 24 at 0:40, by Martha

THWACK!!!! THWACK THWACK THWACK THWACK THWACK!!!!!

Honest? Then how come Amsterdam is so Amsterdamned expensive?

Quintuple and sixtuple.

Down boy. Whom thwackest thou so?

6:43 PM

Only the taxis and hotels are expensive: food etc. isn't.

@RegDwight Ah, yes. I shall now go see what deserved such punishment.

@JSBangs I am skeptical. To say the least.

That's Alex just showing off how much thwacking he gets from Martha. Teacher's pet, too bloody right.

Second that!

Teacher, as in dominatrix.

@Cerberus Hm. I learn new things about @Martha every day.

6:47 PM

There's a reason I lapsed into a British accent at the end there. The whole S&M thing is British.

Is it!?

@MrHen Yes she is a source of ... of... basically anything!

@Robusto I am tempted to star that just so we can get some more sex talk in the sidebar over there.

"You're a daisy if you do."

Yes, only the top half of the stars are about sex...

Looks like JustnBeaver is the new T-Rex. Or working on it.

Check his latest.

@RegDwight: Can't we get some freakin' moderation around here? Sheesh!

6:50 PM

Oh lemme see.

I have a question:

> ... fundamental changes in ideas about democracy and authority. This research project will attempt to identify these changes and, subsequently, connect them to notions of sovereignty.

How do these guys get upvotes within 5 minutes of their question being asked?

What about this use of "connect": is it acceptable? Could it be improved? Would "with" be better than "to" here?

@Robusto Sure we can. I proposed just the other day that I close everything as a dupe of ZOMG and be done.

3

Q: "Advise" vs "advice"

In what contexts are those two words used? It's been a while since I've read the grammar books and I don't exactly remember the definitions of a few terms like adjective, so I would really appreciate it if the answers didn't leave it off by saying x is verb and y is adjective - I learn more by p...

grammar confusables

@RegDwight That would solve many of the world's problems. I vote yes.

@MrHen Then go upvote my comment there. If it gets 42 upvotes, I will make it so.

6:56 PM

Note that he asks about beaver as it relates to "a women's vagina" ... first of all, he doesn't understand number agreement; and second of all, does one really have to specify that such an organ belongs to the female of the species?

brb, supper.

Bye!

@Robusto BTW, the German word is Bär.

@Robusto /me does not want to think about male vaginas

@RegDwight Well, I have already upvoted the other comment there. Is that close enough?

6:57 PM

@JSBangs — I used to think such a thing was impossible, but then I saw your awww, cute rabbits comment ...

Perhaps a male vagina is called a muskrat?

@RegDwight — And do they like a bare Bär or a hair Bär ?

@MrHen — I'm sorry I brought it up.

Will y'all quit taking my name in vain? I'm trying to work, here.

@Martha — @RegDwight did it, and then he tried to blame others. Just like he always does.

7:20 PM

@Robusto Not too good at the whole 'following directions' thing, are you?

Damn lies again, @Rob. I only mentioned a bear.

In German, no less.

@JSBangs: see? I told you. One hour, 42 views, 3 votes in total.

3

Q: 20's Slang and idioms

What are some of the most common idioms and phrases of speech in the 20's? Specifically what are a couple different terms for bars (I already know speakeasies)? What were taxi's and cab drivers known as? How brutal were racial slurs at the time?

idioms slang list

Too broad to answer?

7:36 PM

@Martha I thought mgb's answer worked.

But otherwise, yes

7:59 PM

“Congrats, you've gained the privilege – access to moderator tools” — cool!

may I get some candy with that?

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