English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

8:00 PM

Switzerland is very expensive.

Monica

I know it very well.

Mitch

@Monica The US looks great in movies. It's not always the best.

tchrist

But if you have a good job, then I am sure you would be happy there. I have always enjoyed my time in Switzerland.

Mitch

(lots of great things about it but a lot of those great things can be found elsewhere)

tchrist

But then, I should, since I am from Lake Geneva.

David Wallace

8:00 PM

I'm frightened to say this, in case I get accused of being anti-American again; but if I had to choose between living in Switzerland and living in USA, I would choose the former without hesitation.

user19161

@Mitch Hey, how are you enjoying your 20k powers so far?

Mahnax

@DavidWallace Likewise.

tchrist

Why bother accusing when it is so blatantly obvious? It’s like accusing someone of speaking English.

Mitch

@WillHunting I haven't really had a chance to use them. Actually, what -can- I do?

Monica

Don't be, David :D

tchrist

8:01 PM

@Mitch You can edit tag wikis and vote to delete answers, not just questions.

Mitch

I'd like to have superpowers to make people not ask supid questions, and not to give stupid comments as answers and to fix my petty typos instead of commenting about them:

user19161

@Mitch Well, you can cast delete votes once a question is closed without waiting a day. And also delete vote on negatively voted answers.

Mitch

It's its, not it's — jwpat7 4 hours ago

user19161

There are no special powers at 25k though, but maybe one can see yet to be asked questions at 25k.

Mitch

And to use -quote-! Hey we're all computer literate here, aren't we?

David Wallace

8:03 PM

@Mitch It's the nature of SE that it attracts people who like to feel superior.

Mitch

@WillHunting Ha!

user19161

@Mitch Well, I am not too good at computers.

user19161

@Mitch Ah, he seems to be a little like me there.

tchrist

@Mitch But we like your pretty typos!

Mitch

@DavidWallace well, I welcome the correction...but save us -all- time abd just do the correction, it's obviously a typo.

@tchrist So you must like me a lot!

or them.

not me.

the typos that is.

user19161

8:05 PM

@Mitch Yes, I do.

Mitch

they're not that pretty.

You're trolling me again aren't you?

user19161

@Mitch They are as pretty as you!

tchrist

@WillHunting Would you settle for being Lawful Neutral at computers?

Mitch

@WillHunting I am pretty like a butterfly, light and glowing in the sunlight, even when crushed underfoot into the mud. (hmmm...suggest to some of them writers like @MattЭллен and @KitFox for first line of their next novel. no acknowledgement necessary)

David Wallace

@Mahnax Is it tomorrow that your new job starts? I have lost track of the days a little.

Mahnax

8:07 PM

@DavidWallace Yes, that's right.

David Wallace

@Mitch I shall refer to you as the pretty butterfly from now on.

tchrist

@Mitch One man’s troll is the next one’s dwarf.

@Mitch You can also now vote to delete closed questions as soon as they are closed.

Mitch

@WillHunting that doesn't seem like the most useful of powers. sort of what was possible before but with vengeance. But it -is- the last power one gets.

tchrist

But the power I wish you would use is the tag wiki one. Nobody edits those. There are lots of holes.

Mitch

@tchrist !! I'll have to remember that.

David Wallace

8:08 PM

@Mahnax So this could be the last time for a while that we see you in the early evening?

user19161

@Mitch I managed to delete a few Nortonn questions today.

Mahnax

@DavidWallace Well, I suppose. Although it is only 13:10 here.

tchrist

The three Kiwi actors in the Hobbit who are playing the trolls are also playing dwarves of the company.

So I meant what I said.

David Wallace

@Mahnax Is it? See, I'm not very good at timezones.

Mitch

@tchrist I kinda dislike that power when it has been used (that I've noticed) because it has resulted in questions being deleted before the OP has had a chance to fix up things.

user19161

8:09 PM

@tchrist I just saw the movie ad on TV.

Mitch

@WillHunting OK...excpet for that.

Jez

New rule: anyone who uses "your" to mean "you're" gets stabbed through the head with a clueknife.

David Wallace

@Mahnax I suppose one could call that the extremely-early evening.

Mitch

actually NortonnS questions aren't always bad..it's just they're connected with an abuser.

tchrist

I really like the trolls meself.

Mahnax

8:10 PM

@DavidWallace If one is inclined to do so, then yes.

Mitch

@Jez whoa dude...did I just do that? Please put down the knife...I will fix it.

David Wallace

@Mahnax Inexcusable of me, really, when it only takes a couple of seconds to check what time it is where you are.

Jez

no, but i keep seeing it around the place

and people think it doesnt matter if you correct them, well SCREW THEM. morons.

Mahnax

@DavidWallace Oh, it's fine, really.

tchrist

passes Jez some spare benzos

Jez

8:11 PM

some even take offence at your trying to improve their crappy English

Mitch

@tchrist I have this thing about tags...thy -sound- really useful, but I just don't see them being useful in practice. (I haven't been convinced otherwise)

user19161

@david You can change your username once every 30 days, since I got Robusto's ping about it.

David Wallace

I think I knew that.

tchrist

An interesting use of tag wikis is to put good stuff there.

David Wallace

But thank you for the information anyway.

Mitch

8:13 PM

@tchrist mmm as a snack or as a main dish? kinda tough and gamey..an acquired taste. like bacon but as if it had been run over by a diesel truck. and then you eat the tire.

user19161

@DavidWallace But for everyone's edification, there is a trick to change before the 30 days is over.

Mitch

@Jez really, people complain? Is this here at ELU or in real life?

tchrist

@Mitch At least you get well-dressed meat that way.

David Wallace

@WillHunting Ah, I thought your expertise might be useful.

user19161

@DavidWallace One needs to create a new account after the name change, and then edit the profile from there and copy to the existing ones.

Mitch

8:14 PM

@WillHunting which you use all the time !

user19161

@Mitch Nope! See above.

Mitch

@tchrist yuck!

Jez

@Mitch well in my last job, there was a Danish guy I politely corrected when he did it. it really seemed to irk him.

Mitch

@WillHunting that's a lot of work for...is -that- what NS does?

(since he seems to do a lot of work for little ostensible return)

tchrist

@Jez Correcting people is considered very rude.

Mitch

8:15 PM

('ostensible' is the word of the week)

user19161

@Mitch Maybe he creates new emails.

Mitch

@tchrist yeah...no one likes that.

Jez

@tchrist only if you're a complete moron who doesn't want to improve themselves. in which case i have little respect for you

if people correct my french i'm perfectly ok with it

hell, I may even apologize

tchrist

On the TV series Game of Thrones, they had to succinctly convey that a certain character was a complete dick and rudely out of touch with his fellow man, so they had him correcting people’s English. They were spot on the money there.

Mitch

@Jez hm...it's an acquired taste (to be corrected). You can even say -'Hey please correct my ungood english' but it still hurts a little when it happens. It's like someone telling you that you stepped in dog poop. Not totally you're fault, but you still feel ashamed when you find out (you see what I did there?).

@tchrist You meant to say: "they were right on the money there."

Jez

8:18 PM

@Mitch hardly. you're not a native speaker (unless you are, in which case you should've learnt it better goddamnit)

Mitch

'spot on' is a Britishism (or is it Briticism?)

Jez

Briticism

tchrist

@Jez He learned it fine.

Jez

@tchrist I meant "you" in the "one" sense

Mitch

I think Briticism is for rightpondians.

David Wallace

8:19 PM

@Mitch Both forms are commonly used.

Mitch

@Jez which 'you'. The first, second or third one?

David Wallace

But Briticism always sounds to me like a portmanteau of British and criticism.

Jez

@Mitch all 3

user19161

I think I should take a new pic of myself soon and put it up...

Mitch

@DavidWallace But no one says USaism.

tchrist

8:20 PM

People who live in glass houses starkly bereft of proper capitalization and proper punctuation have no place correcting anyone.

It makes them look like a jerk.

user19161

The Glasshouse was a terrible movie...

Monica

Usaism? :D I like it.

Mitch

@WillHunting zing! I think.

tchrist

Of course it isn’t just a feigned appearance, but reality. They actually are jerks.

user19161

@Mitch In fact, all Keanu movies are terrible..., like Matrix.

Mitch

8:21 PM

@Monica it sounds terribly jarring (Americanism is the common term, and I just made up USaism just for that effect)

tchrist

@Mitch Left and right are reversed when you’re standing on your head.

Jez

dropping caps and punctuation for quick messages online is acceptable, IMHO. it speeds up typing quite quickly. for me it also gives a sense of casualness which I'm looking to project.

tchrist

whevers

Mitch

@WillHunting How dare you! Well, the first one is very enjoyable, the other two are unquestionably crap.

tchrist

picks up a stone

Mitch

8:22 PM

@Jez projection noticed

user19161

@Mitch I find Matrix rather pretentious, it seems deep but is actually meaningless in my arrogant opinion.

Mitch

@tchrist Plexiglas house

Monica

I am not a native speaker, unfortunately, but you don't really have to explain everything to me. I understood what you meant.

David Wallace

@tchrist I must confess, whenever anyone talks about Rightpondians or Leftpondians, I have to think for a moment about which side is which. Simply because America is to the east of me, and Europe to the west.

Mitch

@WillHunting yeah...I get that...it is totally cobbled together from previous much better sources.

but then Star Wars ws kind the same thing.

Jez

8:23 PM

It's only when I am trying to sound rather formal that I'll use proper capitalization and punctuation. Or when I'm writing a book. Or an e-mail.

user19161

@Mitch I find the move Pi terrible too, watched 5 min of it and stopped. The worst math movie ever...

Mitch

@DavidWallace I hate the pond thing because I can't tell left from right (without a lot of thought)

tchrist

laughs at “an” email.

Jez

?

tchrist

checks the post for any mails

Mitch

8:24 PM

@WillHunting that wsn't a -real- math movie (I don't think one hs been done). You should watch the TV show 'Numb3rs'

they do the math -really- really well.

of right your namesake GWH

user19161

@Mitch Well you know my favourite movies, Good Will Hunting and A Beautiful Mind...

Monica

I have to go. Goodbye!

Mitch

right...I forgot, bth do the math well.

tchrist

Oh look, I have three new mails yesterday, and two of them aren’t even bills.

David Wallace

@Monica Bye. Nice talking to you, as always.

Monica

8:25 PM

Thanks. Bye.

tchrist

If you really want to talk like that, by all means, go for it.

It just sounds like nonsense.

Mitch

except the scene in beautiful mind where the main character gets the best girl using game theory...he really only did it by being clever, rather than actually using game thery, even though the lines he spouted used game theory talk.

David Wallace

@Monica By the way, you know that I'm the person who just asked you the question in that other place, don't you?

Mitch

@DavidWallace Use the 'south at the top map'. I'm getting dizzy already thinking of that.

I annoy people by tending to use est and west instead of left and right, because I can remember those better (but not by much) than left/right.

tchrist

4

@Jez is that yours? :)

Mitch

8:29 PM

@tchrist !! they messed up 'affect' !!

what murphy's law is that?

tchrist

How?

Mitch

if 'affect' is a noun (as it appear they assume to do), then it means 'the state of the emotional reaction' ya know like a 'depressed or enthusiastic or sedate affect'

user19161

I find the pop songs in the 80s and 90s nicer than the ones now.

user19161

Affect and effect can be both noun and verb.

Mitch

@WillHunting I don't understand the kid's music these days. just really not that interesting.

tchrist

8:32 PM

But you affect an action, and you effect a result. I think that is what they mean. Those are verbs.

Which kid?

Matt Эллен

@Mitch you mean "someone's fucking emotional state"

Mitch

@tchrist well, they use 'a effing result' so I guess it is a noun.

tchrist

Anyone who uses affect as a noun has probably just had his head examined.

user19161

@Mitch But I do like Mariah Carey.

Mitch

@MattЭллен oh. yeah. goddamnit.

tchrist

8:33 PM

@WillHunting You mean Maria Callas?

Understandable.

Mitch

Yeah, they're both hot.

for their times.

@tchrist kid? the kidses. all of them.

Mahnax

Time for me to leave. Mahnax out

Mitch

That's the only teenagerism I allow myself. at least before dinner.

user19161

@tchrist Actually, I don't like Maria Callas. I wonder what's the big deal. I like Kiri Te Kanawa.

Mitch

@Mahnax later. earn money. save it. and stuff.

@WillHunting What about...who's that other opera singer...

Jez

8:36 PM

look at this:

user19161

@Mitch Too many...

Jez

> Jenny nodded. "The woman looks pleasant. I can't imagine they're a couple, but..." She shrugged and took another bite.

> "Now I'm curious. We should go meet them," he said.

> She looked at the clock. "Should we offer them pizza?"

that's what you do in the US, isnt it?

tchrist

*isn’t

Jez

when i moved in, not one of my neighbours gave a shit

as i said, dropping punctiation and capitalization in casual internet talk is basically fine

tchrist

fein

goez with punctiation

Don’t know what neighbouse is though.

It sounds like a clever portmanteau though.

Is it?

Jez

8:38 PM

no

Darn.

typo

I could have a neighbice plural.

Mitch

looks like that.

tchrist

8:39 PM

There’s something wrong with that picture.

Mitch

@tchrist "..., innit?"

tchrist

I think it’s the wedding ring.

Mitch

@tchrist I know. The eyes follow you wherever you go.

tchrist

Any picture will do that if it is pointed straight out.

That is the Mona Lisa trick.

@Jez Yes, it is customary to be friendly to your new neighbors. And old ones.

Mitch

@tchrist I thought the trick there was that everyone thinks she has a smile when she doesn't have one in the least possible way (did I get the negatives right there?)

Jez

8:41 PM

yep, not here

miserable place.

tchrist

Gifts of home-made food used to be more common than they are today, but dropping by for friendly introductions is considered normal.

Mitch

@Jez aprtment building or house?

Jez

house

tchrist

Your neighbors should have greeted you.

Unless it’s a crackhouse district, I suppose.

Jez

they say that nobody knows their neighbours' names anymore. that's not quite true - I know a few of them - but it's getting there

tchrist

8:42 PM

They have a different style of baking there.

Mitch

Oh. well. yeah it would be nice, but people tend not to do it anymore. Are you renting? If people know that then they won't bother. Have a family with very littel kids? then families with little kids will totally present themselves. otherwise...not so much.

tchrist

I probably only know the nearest half-dozen houses’ denizens’ names.

Mitch

@Jez I knnow mine only by doing the internet thing.

Jez

nah im single. but i do own the place.

tchrist

@Mitch Stealing their internet?

Mitch

8:44 PM

when I was a kid, I knew all within a half mile (without ever meeting them).

I exaggerate. but totally up and down the street.

tchrist

Kids are smarter.

Old people forget.

Mitch

@tchrist !!no.

tchrist

There’s more room in their empty heads to store such things.

Mitch

@tchrist and don't care. they expect the kidses to do all the meeting and greeting work.

tchrist

That is the polite ordering.

Is it just me, or would you expect a website named http://bigbustycoons.com to be not safe for work?

Mitch

8:46 PM

kids first, then meet neighbors for dinner.

Jez

TBH 99% of the time i don't care about my neighbours, and that's good - generally when i care about them it's because they're being noisy.

Mitch

@tchrist Or an ecologists website. One or the other. let me visit that...

No. Not safe for -anything-.

Jez

given my experience of noisy neighbours over the last 15 years, where i am now is pretty darn lucky

tchrist

Mitch

Knowing your neighbors is very useful, because when the apocalypse comes, they're the ones you'll be banding together with to man the barricades. Also, who you'll be eating.

tchrist

8:48 PM

Happy December! I really must go seize the day.

Jez

@Mitch why would that matter? i don't know the cow part of which I ate today.

Mitch

@tchrist because the weather will turn?

Jez

@Mitch As Homer Simpson said, "Lisa this is lamb! Not a lamb."

Mitch

@Jez Oh shit...the apocalypse -is- coming, and I haven't prepared! Wait...part of -what- cow?

tchrist

Aye, and soon.

Mitch

8:50 PM

@Jez Oh.

tchrist

Tomorrow I may have to wear pants.

I hate that.

Jez

call 'em trousers

you may hate it less

Mitch

Well, you do want to spy out the weak and slower ones, but not too sickly or stringy.

@tchrist you really need to combine these so we can star it.

tchrist

What, I have to wear trousers too? That’s just going too far.

Mitch

@tchrist It's cold, ain't it?

tchrist

8:53 PM

That’s what snow gaiters are for.

Gaiters

Gaiters are garments worn over the shoe and lower pants leg, and used primarily as personal protective equipment; similar garments used primarily for display are spats. Originally, gaiters were made of leather. Today, gaiters for walking are commonly made of plasticized synthetic cloth such as polyester. Gaiters for use on horseback continue to be made of leather. Terminology In Army parlance, a gaiter covers leg and bootlacing; a legging covers only the leg. In RAF parlance, gaiter includes legging. The American Army during World War I and World War II had leggings, which were gai...

Mitch

If I were @Robusto, I'd have a number of snappy comebacks for that. But I don't.

@tchrist: kudos on 'boybits'

all I've been doing is writing comments that start off snarky, and then I try to edit out that part, but then I'm left with nothing. I bet Deepak Chopra would have something to say about that.

See?

tchrist

@Mitch It was from the ladyparts question.

There is some Filipino sports guy whose nickname is “Boybits”. Sheesh.

Robusto

9:31 PM

@Mitch Comeback for what?

Cerberus

@Tchrist I don't know, it doesn't look very unusual to me. Many kinds of f's are used. As to the capital, that's just sloppiness.

tchrist

Ah, glad you’re here. Can you resolve this silliness:

0

Q: Exempli Gratia help

Is there a plural for e.g., Or is it regular to use it before multiple examples? I know that some abbreviations double up in their letters in the plural, but I haven't found anything enlightening yet. Thanks

abbreviations

I don’t think they should use it at all, of course, but there is a question of case.

And I did find one Exemplōrum grātiā, which seems to prove to me that it must be genitive in the singular.

Robusto

@tchrist I upvoted your admonition to use English when using English.

It doesn't matter. The abbreviation e.g. is a stock form that is almost never spelled out in English — and shouldn't be. Even if the case markers on the words changed, you would still write e.g. — Robusto 13 secs ago

tchrist

@Cerberus Thanks. Didn’t know gratia had become a postposition.

Cerberus

9:46 PM

Causa and gratia.

tchrist

Ah yes, with causa.

Cerberus

Metri causa is a handy phrase to remember, when a certain word or ending is used for the sake of metre.

tchrist

The OED entry for cock in the virile sense includes “The current name among the people, but, pudoris causa, not admissible in polite speech or literature; in scientific language the Latin is used.”

So there is another causa.

It’s amusing that they were ashamed to say they were ashamed. :)

Cerberus

Very good.

tchrist

When I studied in Spain, teachers were always using doubled letters for abbreviated plurals.

It was “the thing to do” there. I don’t know how much that is true in the non-academic English-speaking world. I suspect most have forgotten this habit, or never knew it.

Cerberus

10:00 PM

They new knew it.

Nor do they here.

The one I use most often is pp. for pages.

It is indeed more common in the Romance languages.

Or so I believe.

I mainly know about Spanish and French.

Robusto

All the people in the world who can tell the difference between e.g. singular and e.g. plural, and think it matters, could fit into a small motel room with room left over for all the clowns that normally fit into that little car in the circus act.

Cerberus

Haha.

I'm sure you picked clowns for no particular reason.

Robusto

Are you saying I don't choose my words carefully?

Cerberus

Merely suggesting—but that was only the locutionary act. You know the illocution very well.

Robusto

Doggy, you've got some hard bark on you.

Cerberus

10:06 PM

Hard?

Yes.

That's you?

waving to your fans, eh, cerb?

Cerberus

New Slovenian president.

Hah. Ha.

Robusto

10:08 PM

You're president of Slovenia now?

Cerberus

Slovenia is indeed the most civilised Slavic country.

They even have the Euro.

Robusto

Kind of like the smartest kid on the short bus?

Cerberus

@Robusto I wish!

@Robusto No, they're actually doing quite well.

Better than, say, southern Italy.

This is Ljubliana.

Apart from that ugly building in the background, doesn't it look perfect?

Idem.

Robusto

We have enough postcards, tyvm.

Cerberus

Do you have a city as pretty as this?

Mitch

10:28 PM

@Robusto for this:

2 hours ago, by tchrist

That’s what snow gaiters are for.

tchrist

@Cerberus Surely.

Mitch

I can't think of one.

Cerberus

@tchrist Pictures?

I'm probably one of the few people who do not think Paris is the most beautiful city in the world.

It's fine, but it doesn't win.

It's a bit too...bland.

It may be the best city in the world, all things considered; but the most beautiful city?

tchrist

Mitch

10:43 PM

pretty. where are they? look californian.

San Diego.

Nice.

I don't like the skyscrapers, though.

Do you have a bigger picture of those Spanish buildings?

tchrist

Yes, somewhere.

Cerberus

10:45 PM

@tchrist This is a nice example of industrial architecture, or how we could build modern infrastructure.

@tchrist This has nice colours, but I can't really see the architecture.

It's easy to make anything look nice under the right lighting.

tchrist

Cerberus

Okay, not bad. A bit sterile, but nice.

tchrist

Cerberus

Nice.

tchrist

Cerberus

10:52 PM

That fountain is almost Moorish.

tchrist

Cerberus

It's funny how the south was always more into baroque and other ornate styles.

Mitch

@Cerberus poop?

tchrist

Mitch

Actually, here's an example of the rule that the exception proves the rule.

tchrist

10:55 PM

San Diego is quite pretty.

Cerberus

@Mitch Sure. Like Dino poop.

Mitch

These are all pictures of -one- building.

tchrist

?

Cerberus

How about some square/streets?

Mitch

@Cerberus I hope that beauty is not in the eye of the beholder.

you can get some nasty infection.

Cerberus

10:57 PM

Then don't go swimming in certain lakes.

Mitch

@tchrist any street scapes that are 'beautiful'?

tchrist

Mitch

(I find the skylines nice but they might be considered too industrial or not comparing same with same

tchrist

Mitch

)

like going through the canyons of new york city are not really comparable to venice or paris or ljubljana

or the beautiful canals of singapore.

user19161

10:59 PM

@mitch My retirement from ELU is quite successful so far... I have not answered anything for a while...

Mitch

or is that kuala lumpur

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…