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12:08 AM
@DannyuNDos You'd be surprised.
Let's see, I can name Germany and Netherlands. I don't remember the others.
Wait, Russia? I don't think these colors are accurate.
I can name them all.
Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Gabon, Estonia, Ruxemburg, Lithuania, Armenia, Yemen, Bulgaria, Sierra Leone, and Russia.
And Bolivia is missing.
1:10 AM
@DannyuNDos You get the prize. I never thought it worth my time to memorize the flags.
@DannyuNDos Whoa whoa whoa ... Ruxembourg?
Aw shoot, Luxembourg, I mean.
Too late. FAIL!
And this is how Koreans confuse L and R.
Japanese have the same issue.
Actually, they don't have an /L/ sound.
Funny thing is, though, when I hear Korean on videos I try to pass it through my Japanese filter, which I do until I realize I don't understand even a single word. Then I nod to myself: Korean.
Q: Are the Japanese and Korean spoken languages somehow related?

RobustoAccording to Wikipedia, Historical and modern linguists classify Korean as a language isolate. [A language isolate, in the absolute sense, is a natural language with no demonstrable genealogical ... relationship with other languages] Yet whenever I hear Korean spoken, my ear is tricked for a sh...

It's because of the codas. Japanese has two, and Korean has seven.
1:16 AM
I'm not familiar with coda. By that do you mean "particle"?
I mean, as in a syllable: onset - nucleus - coda.
I don't know what that means. Japanese has pitch accent. Is that what you mean?
Coda = the end part of a syllable, after the vowel
Yes, I know what coda means. From "tail" ...
In Japanese, there are only two codas, namely ん and っ. Korean has seven, namely ㄱ, ㄴ, ㄷ, ㄹ, ㅁ, ㅂ, ㅇ.
1:21 AM
Japanese doesn't have onsets/nuclei/coda. All syllables but one ends in a vowel sound, and that one is /n/ which is arguably a semi-vowel.
I think you're thinking of moras?
Do you mean morae?
I'm in a game atm and others are yelling at me to pay attention. More later.
1:53 AM
@CowperKettle Are you sure, and the whole panel/array?
2:38 AM
> What's the most uncomfortable part of a nuclear winter?
Icy BMs.
@Cerberus I'm not sure..
3:01 AM
@CowperKettle Neither am I.
3:36 AM
@Robusto There was indeed, even its color matches. A croissant is initially a shape, the shape of the crescent moon.
@jlliagre Vert? :)
Le Croissant fertile est une expression désignant une région (non officielle) biogéographique du Proche et Moyen-Orient formant une bande de terres cultivables grâce à un climat suffisamment pluvieux, délimitée au sud par le désert de Syrie (qui forme la partie nord du désert d'Arabie), à l'ouest par la mer Méditerranée, et par les montagnes du Taurus et du Zagros au nord et à l'est. Il traverse les entités actuelles que sont la Palestine, Israël, la Jordanie, la Syrie, le Liban, le sud-est de la Turquie, le nord et l'est de l'Irak, et le bord ouest de l'Iran. Le terme fut introduit en 1916 par...
@MetaEd taken literally, I understand your intention... educated in a system that historically is X but not a believer in any of the X mysticism. or lore possibly practicing any or only major traditions (well known holidays).
Wow, what a name for a man!
> Le terme fut introduit en 1916 par l'archéologue James Henry Breasted car l'arc formé ressemble à un croissant.
@Mitch A crotte feuilletée?? I never ate anything like that!
@jlliagre I mean it sorta looks like that
Who knows what the French will actually eat
3:43 AM
@Mitch Pain au chocolat?
Pain au chocolat (French pronunciation: [pɛ̃ o ʃɔkɔla] , literally "bread with chocolate"), also known as chocolatine (pronounced [ʃɔkɔlatin] ) in the south-west part of France and in Canada, or couque au chocolat in Belgium, is a type of Viennoiserie pastry consisting of a cuboid-shaped piece of yeast-leavened laminated dough, similar in texture to a puff pastry, with one or two pieces of dark chocolate in the center. The chocolate usually has a slight bite to the texture. Pain au chocolat is made of the same layered doughs as a croissant. Often sold still hot or warm from the oven, they a...
Well, at least it's not phyllo, which is what I somehow thought he'd been talking about.
> bien que les Européens et les Nord-Américains la connaissent sous un nom grec, cette pâte est clairement d'origine turque
@MetaEd However there's lots of room in all those word for variations and the variations for X=Christian only overlap a little with the variations for Jewish. There is a non-trivial proportion of Jews who are 1) non-believers and 2) strong traditionalists ie very kosher, follow shabbat restrictions, do the whole 4 hr hagadah etc etc. I can't imagine any body who is a non-believer Christian but goes to church/confession every week. Except maybe some Jesuits?
Damn you, now I want Weichselstrudel.
@tchrist Ohh I had no idea it was from leaf!
I thought it was filo- and I never looked up its origin.
3:53 AM
wait... phyllo- and feuille are cognate?
Feuille most be from Latin folium.
The sounds and meanings seem too close to be an coincidence.
Though you never know...
> From Greek φύλλο (fýllo, “leaf”). Doublet of phyllon, distantly also with foil, folio and folium.
distantly... that's pretty close
I believe they mean that both L and G took it from a common ancestral form up in PIE.
But as to actual pastry construction, would a pastry chef dare to use phyllo to make a croissant?
3:57 AM
No, wrong dough.
Etymonline mentions the shared root *bhel- "to thrive, bloom," possibly a variant of PIE root *bhel- (2) "to blow, swell.".
Which also led to blade, blood, and bloom.
or wrong flattening process. with croissants you put sticks of butten in between layers of dough, then flatten it, then repeat the process, butter then fold butter then fold
@Mitch We might eat pets de nonne (nun's farts) and crottes d'âne (donkey's poop). For some reason, they look alike:
@Cerberus if you go far enough back the PIE roots go back to Nostratic where Proto-Semitic goes back to also.where there are lots of roots that produce many words.
Noun: mille-feuille (plural mille-feuilles)
  1. A type of pastry made of several layers of puff pastry usually filled with cream or custard, and topped with icing or sugar.
  2. Synonyms: Napoleon cake, (originally US slang) napoleon
  3. mille-feuille m (plural mille-feuilles)
  4. (cooking) mille-feuille, vanilla slice
  5. mille-feuille f (plural mille-feuilles)
(2 more not shown…)
4:01 AM
Eventually if you go back far enough you get to Proto-Language which has only one root, and every word in every language afterwards has some slightly different sound change to account for different words.
@jlliagre I, of course, was kidding, and now it turns out that I wasn't far from the truth.
Noun: milfoil (countable and uncountable, plural milfoils)
  1. Common yarrow, Achillea millefolium.
  2. Any of several similar pungent Eurasian herbs, of the genus Achillea
  3. Any plants of the genus Myriophyllum; water milfoil.
Yarrow is Achillea millefolium.
Pets de nonne
They look just as expected
Crottes d'âne
4:04 AM
Pets de rire
> Louisiana-style beignets are square or rectangular fried pastries made from leavened dough rather than choux pastry. In New Orleans, they are best known as a breakfast served with powdered sugar on top.
> Dans le reste du monde francophone, le beignet emprunte plusieurs
noms. Aux Antilles, c'est un beignet antillais. Au Canada francophone
(au Québec et au Nouveau-Brunswick principalement), on dit « beigne »
et ils ont la forme d'un anneau. On peut aussi trouver la variété trou
de beigne, qui est le bout de pâte retiré pour former le trou du beigne
à l'ancienne. Aux États-Unis en Louisiane, ils sont appelés beignet
cadien. En Belgique francophone, ils sont appelés croustillons. En
Suisse romande, boule de Berlin, merveilles (proches des oreillettes).
4:20 AM
Vladimir Zelensky spent 4 years in Mongolia as a child. His father, an IT specialist, was sent there by the USSR to build a computer mainframe for a copper/molybdenum ore processing plant in the 1970s; while there, he also set up an IT school.
Erdenet (Mongolian: Эрдэнэт, literally "with treasure") is the third-largest city in Mongolia, with a 2018 population of 98,057, and the capital of the aimag (province) of Orkhon. Located in the northern part of the country, it lies in a valley between the Selenge and Orkhon rivers about 240 km (149 mi) (as the crow flies) northwest of Ulaanbaatar, Darkhan, the capital. The road length between Ulaanbaatar and Erdenet is about 370 km (230 mi). == History == Erdenet, one of the youngest settlements in Mongolia, was founded in 1974 in an area where large deposits of copper had been discovered in the...
It looks like home.
Like a typical Russian town.
Huh. Interesting how much that doesn't look like a typical American town (of the same size)
I'm surprised it consists largely--from that picture--of apartment buildings rather than houses
4:39 AM
Ancient Egyptian sculptors only produced idealized representations of heads, but they experimented on the side, producing realistic heads.
This is by Thuthmos, the royal sculptor in the 14th century BC
Thutmose, also known as "The King's Favourite and Master of Works, the Sculptor Thutmose" (also spelled Djhutmose, Thutmosis, and Thutmes), was an Ancient Egyptian sculptor. He flourished around 1350 BC, and is thought to have been the official court sculptor of the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten in the latter part of his reign. A German archaeological expedition digging in Akhenaten's deserted city of Akhetaten, known today as Amarna, found a ruined house and studio complex (labeled P47.1-3) in early December 1912; the building was identified as that of Thutmose based on an ivory horse blinker found...
Oh that's well before Alexander then.
4:54 AM
The great one who was tutored by Aristotle?
5:04 AM
Pretty cool!
@jlliagre Wait those are oliebollen!
> Il est appelé croustillon en Belgique francophone (crostilion en wallon). À Liège, il est parfois nommé « soupir de nonne » ou « pet-de-nonne » par belgicisme (et ne désigne donc pas la pâtisserie française du même nom, voisine mais distincte du croustillon).
Les croustillons sont une pâtisserie belgo-néerlandaise constituée de petites bouchées de pâte à beignets cuites dans une friture et généralement saupoudrées de sucre glace (couramment nommé sucre impalpable ou sucre farine en Belgique francophone). C'est une pâtisserie classique et de préparation aisée, emblématique des fêtes foraines et, en raison de racines très régionales et folkloriques, connue sous divers noms selon les traditions locales. == Préparation et consommation == Par des baraques et roulottes de fêtes foraines ou autres foires, le croustillon est traditionnellement vendu en lot...
Huh. TIL that (a) for some AmE speakers poor and pour aren't homophones, and (b) the *non-*homophonous pronunciation of "poor" is the "traditional" one. Somehow I either haven't heard or haven't noticed this.
Now that I think about it: I think I have noticed this odd pronunciation of "poor" before. It's the one MW transcribes as "ˈpu̇r".
> An oliebol (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈoːlibɔl]) is a Dutch beignet.
Oh, that totally explains it.
I have absolutely no clue how to make that sound. It's the pronunciation Cambridge gives also with IPA /pʊr/.
My brain does not want to put a [ʊ] before an /r/.
From Wikipedia:
> For many speakers of American English, the historical /iur/ merges with /ɜr/ after palatal consonants, as in "cure," "sure," "pure," and "mature", and merges with /ɔr/ in other environments such as in "poor" and "moor."
Somehow I hadn't quite noticed that poor is one of the words where people without this merger have a /ʊr/. I thought we all said /ɔr/ there.
6:14 AM
Again Lukashenko in French
A famous old Russian meme translated (only a small bit though). The original name fo the meme is Идущий к реке (The one who goes to the river)
The guy is walking to the river and is telling how he has reached an enlightened state in which all he needs is to contemplate the Universe.
But he is telling that with a lot of expletives. Probably the state of enlightement has its glitches.
Another meme, in which a passer-by woman is asked something by a TV crew, and erupts in a stream of consciousness, in which he calls her hat "candibober" (who knows what that is)
The original in Russian, 12 years ago:
7:11 AM
@M.A.R. you may be interested in this question
Unfortunately, it appears to be asked on the wrong site.
7:33 AM
@user85795 I'm not sure how I'm supposed to answer that. Write a book about it myself?
Every rudimentary textbook on every field in pharmacy has plenty of examples on how scientists in the field solved a difficult problem of course.
It's not very accessible knowledge to the populace, and often not very enticing writing.
Given the growing distrust of science, it's probably a good idea.
Yeah, it almost sounds like a textbook reference request.
After the coV pandemic the populace appears ready for a Brief History Of Virology exposition.
Cha-ching to anybody who can come up with one. 😷 🧬💉🧫⚗️🧪📖💲💰
7:52 AM
I used to have trouble pronouncing Spanish /ʎ/. Weirdly enough, I've just found it easy when I tried pronouncing the French word "travaille" as [tʕaː va iʎ].
8:12 AM
Wordle 900 4/6

3 hours later…
11:28 AM
If you pour root beer into a square glass, it'll be just beer.
@CowperKettle Squaring the circle!
Square that^ circle.
11:50 AM
I don't get this joke, even though Google easily translated it.
> BOI WHAT is the Spongebob-conglomerate AI project started by songwriter and producer, Mathue, in bringing Spongebob characters to sing a variety of songs and genres from rap, country, and rock.
I wonder if totally everything was made using AI here. A million views of this song.
@CowperKettle has anything as nasty as this happened in the special operation: Abandoned babies found decomposing in Gaza hospital weeks after it was evacuated
I think your stories of human flesh eating prison inmates being released to fight in the special operation comes pretty close.
1 hour later…
1:15 PM
@user85795 Something similar happened when the Russian Army left Sevastopol during the Crimean War. They left wounded in the city hospital, without personnel, without doctors, without anything. The French and the Brits delayed their entry into the city, and discovered the wounded either in a horrible state or dead.
At least that's what I remember from an audiobook on the Crimean War.
1:25 PM
@user85795 By official estimates, Israel's invasion of Gaza has killed more civilians in ~2 months than Russia's invasion of Ukraine has in ~2 years. Granted, both numbers are undercounts.
Gene of the day: ROBO1 - its variations affect children's ability to do math en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROBO1
One might argue that the level of civilian death and displacement in Gaza suggests that this is not an ordinary military conflict but the start of a campaign of ethnic cleansing. Not to be controversial or anything.
I just don't read any news about Gaza, and even about Ukraine. I just can't keep up.
Prose poem of the day: Les Chants de Maldoror en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Chants_de_Maldoror
1 hour later…
3:08 PM
> a team of researchers at the National Institutes for Quantum Science and Technology (QST) in Japan have now demonstrated that it’s possible to accurately reconstruct complex images with AI — based almost solely from a person’s thoughts petapixel.com/2023/12/04/…
3:21 PM
@CowperKettle That one is clearer than the one with the white owl. Here, the pun is about essence that means either essence (the most essential element of sth) or gas (gasoline, petrol). Pétrole means oil (petroleum).
1 hour later…
4:24 PM
@jlliagre Ah! Now I see!
4:38 PM
@tchrist @Robusto @Mitch @M.A.R. @MetaEd @everybody
I found out while investigating today the very sad news that our Prof Lawler has apparently passed away. All I could find was this mention here. No obituaries or anything like that anywhere. Or none that I could find.
(entry for 27th Nov)
Sorry @alphabet, missed you off there. Know you are a fan of his posts.
4:59 PM
On the Nate Hagens YouTube podcast, the British guest Kate Raworth did not understand the word doozy, and Nate had to explain the meaning. Is this a strictly a US word? youtu.be/GocuMZX3hIs?si=WNKZBGBaAHpuij1j
5:16 PM
@Araucaria-Him He hasn't been on the site for about a month. If someone could confirm the news, maybe we could post something on meta like I've seen other sites do. I did find his personal(!!!!) contact info
Not sure if anyone would answer the phone tho. Maybe his schools would be a better point of contact
@Laurel I'm an occasional email correspondent of his. I emailed him a couple of weeks ago to find out if he was ok and didn't hear anything back, which is why I did a bit of research. Yes, maybe the schools are the way to go.
@Araucaria-Him So sorry to hear that! Maybe try linguistics@umich.edu ?
But I'd expect an obituary online or a statement from UMich by now.
But we should decide on a fitting tribute to him.
5:38 PM
@Araucaria-Him :((( is it confirmed?
6:23 PM
UMich has an in memoriam page and he is not listed: lsa.umich.edu/linguistics/people/in-memoriam.html Could everybody just be jumping the gun here?
1 hour later…
7:29 PM
@Araucaria-Him That is sad. Thanks for notifying us.
1 hour later…
8:40 PM
@Araucaria-Him - thank you. "Impermanent, alas, are all manifestations." His scholarship, and his willingness to share it in a kind way, was wonderful, but his use of typographical emphasis was plain old fun.
8:52 PM
Here is the notice from UMich:
From: Acrisio Pires, Ling Chair <lingchair@umich.edu>
Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 5:44 PM
Subject: John Lawler, rest in peace
To: LingLorchHall <LingLorchHall@umich.edu>

Dear colleagues:

We have now heard the very sad news that Dr. John Lawer, Emeritus Faculty and former Associate Professor in our department, passed away this Saturday November 25.

Dr. John Lawler identified himself as aa general practitioner of linguistics. He studied the processes of metaphor in relation to lexicon and grammar from a cognitive perspective. He was particularly curious about embodied metaphors, and those
His last comment: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/614568/acceptability-of-grammatically-incorrect-sentences#comment1561554_614568

His last answer: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/614360/what-is-the-difference-between-to-every-action-and-for-every-action/614381#614381
9:10 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of answer, link at end of answer (98): Distribution of slang term “opp”‭ by tkalia‭ on english.SE
@Mitch Well, sure, Jesuits. There is a very short path from Jesuit education to atheism.
@Lambie Did someone forward you the email? Do you think we're ok to announce it on meta?
@Laurel I called the Linguistics Department at UMich and a girl forwarded it to me. I don't think you need to post the whole thing elsewhere. But then, they were very open about it. So, your decision. :)
9:31 PM
@Lambie I mean, I don't want to be disrespectful. I'd hope that anyone close to him already heard the news through a better channel than meta. Fortunately, this isn't a situation that I've really dealt with before
@Laurel Announcements are announcements and there is no disrespect in one.
Can I ask you a question that is completely unrelated to this, Laurel?
9:49 PM
Korean idiom of the day: "Are you eating rice, or are you counting its grains?"
10:03 PM
@Lambie sure
So, on the Spanish site, none of the mods is doing anything at all. And one just resigned. What does one do in cases like this?
@Lambie I heard about that, tho I don't have all the details. The CMs know about it already too, so I'm not sure that anything really needs to be done unless you see some urgent matter that needs to be addressed (eg, someone rage quitting all over the site). I would assume they're going to have an election next year—unfortunately there's never any elections at the end of the year during the holidays (ie the time we're in right now)
10:46 PM
@Laurel With all the fiddle-faddle that goes on SE, you'd think they'd have a way to deal with it.
If there's really no volunteer mods who are active there, CMs will be handling the flags until someone is elected. They don't run elections during this season so that CMs get a break. Plus I'd expect many of the people who might want to run to also be busy

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