English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2023-02-08

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12:23 AM

@CowperKettle You have Mies van der Rohe to thank for your discomfort with recent architecture.

@CowperKettle Funny.

@Robusto Yuck.

Also Walter Gropius.

But it took Hitler to put paid to the Bauhaus.

Yeah that was most unfortunate.

Don't give attention to entartete Kunst if you want it to disappear.

Every endeavor has its antagonists, I suppose.

Instead, he probably liked it as a windmill to be seen to fight against.

1:18 AM

@Cerberus The stuff that nightmares are made of.

1:36 AM

@tchrist Exactly.

1:57 AM

Yeah, an exact typo.

of are made

2:21 AM

Is there a language where people are referred to using gendered pronouns, but the genders correspond to something other than whether the person is male or female? Like, perhaps one gender is "has dark hair" and the other is "has light hair."

@TannerSwett You sometimes has languages with noun classes that are not based on gender per se. For example, you might have the "used for people" noun class versus the "used for plants" noun class versus the "used for domestic pets" noun class versus the "used for big things" noun class versus the "used for things you wish to disparage" noun class.

The Bantu languages of Africa work that way.

@TannerSwett But I don't know of any that distinguish a "male-like" from a "female-like" as you seem to mean by "gendered programs" which do what you're asking about.

You do have languages with non-sex-based binary systems, those those whose binary opposition is between animate and inanimate, or between common and neuter. But those don't have guys and gals opposing each other.

List of languages by type of grammatical genders

This article lists languages depending on their use of grammatical gender. == No grammatical gender == Certain language families, such as the Austronesian, Turkic and Uralic language families, usually have no grammatical genders (see genderless language). Many indigenous American languages (across language families) have no grammatical gender.Austronesian Bikol Carolinian Chamoru Cebuano Filipino Gilbertese Ilokano Javanese Malagasy Māori Marshallese Nauruan Niuean Palauan Rapa Nui Samoan Sundanese Tagalog Tahitian Tetum Tongan Tuvaluan VisayanConstructed Esperanto (Esperanto has three gendered...

See the last section there, the one on "More than three grammatical genders".

2:57 AM

The Truth about R (and why you're wrong about pirates)

3

2 hours later…

4:44 AM

@tchrist Yeah, I saw this. He's good. I've already subscribed.

1 hour later…

5:47 AM

✓ the blog may be worth a follow also.

3

6:06 AM

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1 hour later…

7:16 AM

Word of the day: skeuomorph

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7:47 AM

Scots/Irish of the day: ochone (alas)

> What to do with a boy like young Paddy Maloy
Is a problem to puzzle a sage;
I’m thinking, ochone! we must leave him alone,
For it’s too late to change at his age.

Probably meaning Oh, heart

♫ Scottish Music - Highland Widow's lament ♫ LYRICS

> Oh I am come to the low countrie, ochone, ochone, ochrie. Without a penny in my purse. Tae buy a meal tae me.

8:13 AM

Wordle 599 3/6

🟨🟩⬜⬜⬜
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Word of the minute: williwaw (sudden wind from mountain towards the sea)

8:30 AM

Word of the minute: raglan sleeve - named after Lord Raglan, the 1st Baron Raglan,[2] who is said to have worn a coat with this style of sleeve after the loss of his arm in the Battle of Waterloo

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Artificial intelligence researchers have built a new class of “liquid” neural networks that process inputs in a nonlinear way. In certain scenarios, these networks handily outperform conventional neural networks. - Quanta, 7 Feb 23

8:44 AM

Daily Octordle #380
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8️⃣🔟
7️⃣9️⃣
Score: 68

Better than usual.

2

Q: Can I use "much" like this?

Much political debate is meaningless. Is it possible to use "much" like this? I could not find this usage described in any dictionary, but I remember reading similar usages many times. Am I using it correctly or should I say instead "Much of" or any other expression?

Daily Rescue Octordle #380
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Score: 9

9:02 AM

> Much Madness is divinest Sense -
To a discerning Eye -
Much Sense - the starkest Madness -
’Tis the Majority
In this, as all, prevail -
Assent - and you are sane -
Demur - you’re straightway dangerous -
And handled with a Chain -

(Emily Dickinson)

9:18 AM

A good use for ngram, too. much *_NOUN gives much followed by time, money trouble, care, importance, information—a slew of uncountables.

money,

And there’s always the letter closing, “Much love.”

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

Hey, hi. Do you expect an educated speaker today will know the word snob used to mean inter alia "One who has little or no breeding or good taste; a vulgar or ostentatious person" (OED1)?

> "I do not promise overmuch,
Child; overmuch;
Just neutral-tinted haps and such,"
You said to minds like mine.
Wise warning for your credit's sake!
Which I for one failed not to take,
And hence could stem such strain and ache
As each year might assign.

@CrissyFroth-Seapickle sure

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

@CowperKettle Ok, thanks, so you could construe a snobbish behaviour to mean an improper, indelicate one?

Is this as obvious as with snob? I ask because of this: french.stackexchange.com/q/52381/26366

9:35 AM

@Crissey Snob does not imply crudenes, but only, usually, looking down on those one believes to be less educated or cultured.

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

@Xanne Yes, but there was a reversal of the meaning 100+ years ago: etymonline.com/search?q=snob

And they may indeed be so. The error is in looking down on them, not in the judgment itself.

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

This is all about Moncrieff's translation of Proust. Moncrieff was born in the 19th.

Well, perhaps so. Words do change.

Depends on for whom you’re writing—what meaning you want them to take from your words.

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

...Swann, who never spoke of his brilliant connexions, but only of those not highly thought of in the Faubourg Saint-Germain whom he would have considered it snobbish to conceal, and among whom he had come to include his connexions in the official world...

9:40 AM

Or what meaning you think readers took at the time, which is a problem in translation.

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

from: ...Swann qui ne parlait jamais de ses relations brillantes, mais seulement de celles mal cotées qu’il eût jugé peu délicat de cacher, et au nombre desquelles il avait pris dans le faubourg Saint-Germain l’habitude de ranger les relations avec le monde officiel...

@Xanne I hear you.

A more modern translator updated this to indelicate. I guess this is all because Moncrieff's translation was old.

An earlier translation by Moncrieff had snobbish, and in not very good taste to conceal. So 2 ideas for peu délicat. Anyways, different times I guess. It's just a difficult topic.

For the reasons you pointed out.

Oh, yes, I was too quick to reply. Xanne is right, I guess. A snob nowadays is someone "refined".

but he seems to include these less cultured (ot whatever) types among his associates, and does not consider it appropriate to conceal their shortcomings, so he’s not in face snobbish, but the opposite? However it’s really more French than I

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

@CowperKettle Yes, this is what etymonline alludes to..."...and by 1911 the word had its sense of "one who despises those who are considered inferior in rank, attainment, or taste" [OED], which reverses the sense of a century before"

…than I'm confident about.

9:52 AM

I would not dare venture into giving advice on French-English translation, because my native language is Russian, and I know no French at all.

Crissy Froth-Seapickle

@Xanne Yes, but it fits an older meaning of snob(bish) from OED1 which I copied before... archive.org/details/oed9aarch/page/n334/mode/1up

"One who has little or no breeding or good taste; a vulgar or ostentatious person"

not considered it appropriate... have considered it snobbish i.e. inappropriate, vulgar, of not good taste. Anyways, this is beyond my skills.

I believe when Moncrieff translated, the reversal was not as clear as today and readers would understand snobbish to mean something along the lines of inappropriate, improper, indelicate in context, but nowadays it's quite striking.

Which is the reason why the person asked on FrenchSE.

They ask whether peu délicat means snobbish.

Short answer: not anymore.

Moncrieff was 1889–1930...

Anyways, cheers all!

Cheers! :)

10:39 AM

Cheers!

@CrissyFroth-Seapickle Tchin-tchin !

Salut!

10:59 AM

@CowperKettle Hey, you just wrote you know no French at all! :-)

Oct 22, 2022 at 20:39, by jlliagre

Funny how R is a complex subject. It took me a while to understand why a distinction between English accents was referring to pronouncing or not R (rhotic/non-rhotic) while to my ears the difference was between pronouncing something strange that wasn't at all an R and not pronouncing anything at all.

11:44 AM

@tchrist Well, when I wrote "gendered pronouns," I meant pronouns that have classes like noun classes, regardless of whether or not those classes have any relationship to male or female.

12:30 PM

@jlliagre Only a handful of words :)

Storm Shadow is an Anglo-French low-observable, long-range, air-launched cruise missile developed since 1994 by Matra and British Aerospace, and now manufactured by MBDA. Storm Shadow is the weapon's British appellation. In French service, it is called SCALP-EG (which stands for "Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée – Emploi Général"; English: "General Purpose Long-Range Cruise Missile"). The missile is based on the French-developed Apache anti-runway cruise missile. They differ in that the Storm Shadow carries a warhead instead of submunitions. In 2006, to meet the requirement issued...

There are rumours.

1:28 PM

There was some kind of bug in Worldle today whereby the entire game just blanked on me when I was trying to do the capital.

Wordle 599 6/6

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⬛🟨⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Wow, that one was awful.

@Robusto Yeah, I surely never met that word before.

Wordle 599 6/6

⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜
🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟨🟨⬜
⬜⬜🟨🟩🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Just got it by the skin of my teeth.

Daily Quordle 380
6️⃣7️⃣
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quordle.com

1:47 PM

Daily Quordle 380
6️⃣5️⃣
8️⃣4️⃣
quordle.com
You won!

@jlliagre By the skin of my teeth!

2:13 PM

@Robusto D'un cheveu!

2:35 PM

@jlliagre There is an American idiom, "by a blond c_nt hair", which is a vulgar intensifier of that idea.

D'un poil! :-)

Por un pelo

Daily Octordle #380
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6️⃣8️⃣
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Score: 52
Equalling my personal best :-)

@jlliagre Congrats!

(Brat!)

I'm still working on that one. Going slow because I got a good start and don't want to fuck it up.

Meh, just blew it.

2:55 PM

🌎 Feb 8, 2023 🌍
🔥 3 | Avg. Guesses: 6.46
🟧🟧🟥🟥🟥🟧🟥🟩 = 8

globle-game.com
#globle

hi

hi

i have arrived

Good evening!

rejoice

2:56 PM

Noun: chevelure (plural chevelures)

The nebulous part of a comet or star.
1802, William Herschel, Catalogue of 500 new Nebulae, nebulous Stars, planetary Nebulae, and Clusters of Stars; with Remarks on the Construction of the Heavens
A bright star with a considerable milky chevelure
A head of hair.
A periwig.

(3 more not shown…)

We have this word in Russian - шевелюра

shchevelyura?

A cognate, I would suppose?

Yes

Daily Octordle #380
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5️⃣9️⃣
8️⃣🕚
Score: 56

Good, but not nearly the best.

#Worldle #383 X/6 (96%)
🟩🟩🟨⬜⬜⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↘️
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜↖️
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜⬆️
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜↖️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↖️
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Good, but not perfect

🌎 Feb 8, 2023 🌍
🔥 26 | Avg. Guesses: 4.95
🟧🟥🟩 = 3

globle-game.com
#globle

3:02 PM

oh my gosh i dont know the worldle

but im so close

@CowperKettle Mine keeps blanking. I'm going to see if I can finish in a different browser.

@Robusto That's odd

#Worldle #383 6/6 (100%)
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🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

NO WAY NO WAY NO WAY

I didn't even know where this country was located.

It’s a colony of my country.

3:04 PM

Me too

But at least I know about the VLDL receptor.

Someone should make a game named Proteindle

oh no

#Worldle #383 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🏙️🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Not sure why I needed to go to Firefox to finish that one.

The longest protein is titin -- "With its length of ~27,000 to ~35,000 amino acids (depending on the splice isoform), titin is the largest known protein."

Heh.

3:06 PM

#Worldle #383 6/6 (100%)
🟩🟨⬜⬜⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

#Worldle #383 X/6 (95%)
🟩🟨⬜⬜⬜⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↘️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↙️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↖️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
Looks like a falling bomb...

@jlliagre I can’t believe I got it.

Cerberus will solve it on their first attempt

No way.

> An adult human contains approximately 0.5 kg of titin.

3:07 PM

crosswordle.serializer.ca

Wordle. But a crossword.

One great protein is pikachurin - it enables fast signal transduction in the visual system.

I’ve heard about that one.

Discovered (of course) in Japan?

@CowperKettle Pikachu to you too!

I started the page in Wikipedia about pikachurin on 15 Aug 2008

@parz Yes

I had a wild dream in which I traveled somewhere to run around a huge lake, and by the end of the run, which lasted several days, I lost all my clothes.

Taking zinc + vitamin B6 + Mg just before going to sleep is really cool.

I start having vivid dreams on it.

@CowperKettle Where from the dark corners of your mind did THAT come from?

Tripping on vitamins?

Dang, you’re a bad boy.

3:14 PM

@parz It's quite common. The main ingredient is believed to be B6

I self-discovered it, then went googling, and found people discussing it.

There also was an episode where I walked on the top of a skyscraper, and a Turkish man wearing a drone on his back flew over me and tried to steal my backpack, but I grabbed him, and we hovered high for some time.

…

Why Turkish?

And an episode where me and several people were to be executed if we don't solve riddles. I was the last to be executed.

@parz I've no idea. Maybe it was in Turkey

So you solved riddles?

After that, I managed to get hold of the drone, latched onto it, and flew back home.

@parz One guy covertly left me hints. Just before he was executed.

CHEATER

3:17 PM

So I was able to solve the last riddle which consisted of firing a pistol at a particular target.

How did you know which target?

Was it an MIB thing?

Where it was a little girl?

But then suddently I was demanded to recall the password which this man (who was executed) heard. And I could not recall it in 5 seconds, so I was executed too. I was so close to coming out alive.

@parz This man helped me to make something that transformed the set of targets into a single and very easy target. I forgot the particulars.

I.

I too,

had a dream.

After I was executed and woke up, I was so angry at myself for not recalling the simple password. I'll take the same vitamin combination this evening too. I wonder how many days it will work before the effect wears out.

I’m standing in a white room.

There’s a password and a padlock on the door.

neetruof

Simply reversed.

I say it.

A door opens.

So on.

I hear a scream to my right.

A window opens…

And I see the girl I liked in eighth grade.

She is dead.

I press on, not knowing where I’m going.

Maze: completed.

Code: completed.

Tightrope walking: somehow, completed.

I see more people die.

And then…

A door opens…

to a medieval-esque room.

A table. With a saw in the middle.

I am told to take a seat, and I am forced into it.

I am latched in…

and I must press… a button.

Whenever I press the button, the saw moves closer and closer to the other person.

The saw begins to turn, and I press as fast as possible…

But it’s coming closer, closer closer, until I can feel the air being pushed by it whirrrrrrr

Nothing.

and then…

I woke up soon after.

This… is why I don’t like having dreams.

3:27 PM

The data for dream salience suggests that Vitamin B-6 may act by increasing cortical arousal during periods of rapid eve movement (REM) sleep (Ebben et al., 2002)

Although more future studies should be conducted to test the effects of vitamin B6 on sleep and dream saliency, there seems to be one strong indication from all these studies: vitamin B6 increases your ability to recall more dream content (Boston Uni blog)

@parz I like dreams.

I don’t.

Poor sleep quality also increases your ability to recall more dreams.

I like ponies, though.

THERE’S Cerberus.

@Cerberus do todays worldle

@Cerberus I thought that sleep was poor when you did not recall your dreams

3:30 PM

its scuffed

Usually, I don't recall anything at all.

heardle.glitch.me

@parz OK.

@CowperKettle I'm a terrible sleeper, and I almost always remember dreams when I wake up from my (bad) sleep.

@parz Hmm that one is not easy.

> Looks like B6 might be good for sleep quality: "Our study manifested that serum PLP concentration is nonlinearly and negatively associated with sleep quality problems, mainly daytime sleepiness." ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9460331

I'll need to think about it.

3:35 PM

I remember only special dreams. Most of the days I don't remember anything.

@Cerberus Oh, I'm sorry to hear that!

I can sleep 12 hours a day.

Wow

I sleep like 6 hours

Cuz im too busy reading.

I can also sleep 12 hours. But I sleep around 7-8

Tonight I slept relatively well, 3.5 + 2.5 + 0.5 hours.

Without any pills!

3:37 PM

I've got the feeling that these B6-dreaming studies are poor in quality. I wish they invested at least 10% of the amount they invest in vitamin D studies.

@Cerberus One friend of mine takes melatonin.

I use lavender.

If I believe it’ll work, it does.

From what I heard, melatonin is a placebo except for some old people.

Could be so! I didn't read about it much.

I recall reading that it might have some antoxidant properties, but research quality was poor.

user image

A dream I had once.

@Robusto Henry Thoreau was wearing a tight skirt?

3:40 PM

@CowperKettle No. It was a woman who accompanied me.

I don't know her name, but it wasn't Henry.

Great poem. I hope you posted it somewhere.

I only remember a dream around once every two months.

@CowperKettle Nope. I never submitted any of my poems. Why would I?

@Robusto I post mine on Allpoetry. Someone might find them curious.

I wrote there that I renounce all rights.

> Is she now there, wherever there may be?
Only a foolish man would hope to find
That haven fashioned by her dreaming mind.
Night after night, my love, I put to sea.
(Richard Wilbur)

Nice.

3:43 PM

Wilbur has great poems.

They seem simple at first, but if you memorize them, they stay with you.

I mean, they recall themsevles now and then.

I recall First Snow in Alzace during snofalls.

On 25 February, I saw the photo of one of the first soldiers killed and snowed over near Kharkiv, and recalled that poem.

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#Worldle #383 4/6 (100%)
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Yeah I didn't really know the shape.

> Wilbur was also a translator, specializing in the 17th century French comedies of Molière and dramas of Jean Racine. His translation of Tartuffe has become the play's standard English version and has been presented on television twice

4:00 PM

> It’s a green hollow, where a river is singing
Crazily hanging on the grasses rags
Of silver; where the sun, from the proud mountain,
Is shinning: it’s a little valley bubbling with sunlight.

A young soldier, his mouth open, his head bare,
And the nape of his neck bathing in cool blue watercress,
Is sleeping; he is stretched out on the grass, under the skies,
Pale in his green bed where the light falls like rain.

Feet in the gladiolas, he is sleeping.Smiling like
A sick child would smile, he takes a nap:

frenchcrazy.com/le-dormeur-du-val-arthur-rimbaud

@CowperKettle You must understand that I used to live not too far from Walden Pond. It really hadn't much to do with Thoreau by that point. I used to take the kids for walks around it, often on Sunday morning when it was very quiet. We would skip rocks in the stillness, watch the birds (in season) or glazings of ice near the shore.

@Robusto Oh, great! I did not know that. I read "Walden", at least tried to

Many years ago

And read about "Walden 2" by Skinner.

@jlliagre Thank you for the English translation!

@jlliagre So the French use côté ("coast") also to mean side? Interesting.

@CowperKettle Yes, I imagine that would raise all kinds of morbid associations.

4:17 PM

@Robusto Don't overlook diacritics. "Coast" is côte while côté is "side". Côte is also "rib" among other meanings like slope.

@jlliagre My eyes aren't trained for diacritics, especially multiples. ^_^

@CowperKettle Here's one I wrote after viewing the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, D.C. for the first time.

MEMORIAL

Walking down and down
on a drizzling day to view
the solemn ranks of names
and stepping over proud
little flags and ribbons
you stumble at last upon
an ancient stuffed animal
stained with baby drool
and stroked bald around
a big neck wound -- some
mother's final gift
to her son, its matted
carcass all she had
of him to give -- and now
you feel your own flesh
going down and down you
came here to salute
you gave no thought
to being ambushed by
dead tigers in the rain.

3

4:44 PM

@CowperKettle I am starting to hear that the whole anti-oxidant thing doesn't really work. ie, yes, there are free radicals that lead to deterioration of other chemicals, and there are substances called anti-oxidants that make these free radicals not so free anymore (you're probably sensing the lack of depth of my knowledge here)...

But...

There has been no evidence (there have been lots of studies done that were inconclusive) that increasing anti-oxidant containing foods reduces the amount of free radicals in your body.

ie, a diet high in anti-oxidants doesn't really affect the bad free-radicals.

but again that's only what I think I hear.

Nov 18, 2015 at 19:12, by Mitch

"Did you hear about the man who forgot to take his homeopathic medicine? Died of an overdose. "

@CowperKettle It's very 'accessible' (not too long, not too difficult but not childish).

@Mitch They tried to jail the radicals after the Democratic Convention in Chicago in 1968, but it didn't work and they remained free.

5:03 PM

@Robusto Same. Some one should file a bug report.

It's not like the name of the country or the name of the city has some weird characters in it.

@Robusto The Chicago 7 weren't involved were they? I never saw the movie.

All I know about history is from side references in Marvel movies.

Which frankly will cover all of history at some point.

That involves the US.

@Mitch Yes they were. They were the target of the court proceedings.

@Robusto As though they were the ones who caused the riots/police beatings?

@Mitch Someone had to get blamed.

I'm reading the Chicago 7 wiki page now

1) It seems like the unwritten facts all point to Daley organizing the 'police action' (he's the only only in control of all the police and fire, and is the one to call in the national guard.

So it sounds like an Archie Bunker type bigot thought he should teach these hippie kids something.

2) Also prosecuting the 7 seems like ... what they're doing now in Iran.

But instead they don't use executions in the US, and eventually the charges were all reversed.

5:24 PM

@Mitch Absolutely. It was a police riot at an otherwise peaceful gathering.

Richard J Daley announces his “Shoot To Kill” order April 7, 1968 as Blacks vote Democrat

6 hours later…

11:40 PM

user image

Plate movement, Turkey.

Hats off to the electrical line designers, it stood and went on working, I hope

@Robusto Great poem!

11:54 PM

Belarusian "cyber-partizans" have reportedly hacked one of Russia's RosKomNadzor networks, and according to them, there's an ongoing massive effort to catalogue all political "violations" online using crawler-collected data sorted by neural networks.

They say that they downloaded 1.2 TB of internal files of the agency, and some 1.5 million emails.

The "Clean Internet" project will oversee the whole Russian segment of the Internet.

The state is pouring billions into groups of programmers/mathematicians in Russia's leading universities to create neural nets for finding dissidents online.

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Feb '238

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