English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:03 AM

@jlliagre The post-Conquest English should have paid more attention to how the French spell their words and adopted those same practices. Then we could have always spelled the indefinite article an no matter how it was pronounced, and folks would just "know" that its final N is normally silent unless you need to "make the liaison" with a vowel at the start of the next word following. Or with an H muet. :)

But then we'd have to always spell the definite article thee and just know that its final E is silent unless making a liaison. :)

Sandhi is a smooth mistress.

Then an odd and an mirage would work like un ami and un mirage. You'd always write it the same way. Now you have a shibboleth you can use to separate to patriots from the foreign spies. :)

> Juan de Ugalde, later also (wrongly) known by American settlers as Juan de Uvalde, (December 9, 1729 – 1816) was Governor of Coahuila, now in Mexico. He was also a commanding general of Texas, Coahuila, Nuevo León, and Nuevo Santander. He led several military campaigns against Apache tribes in Texas.

Ugalde was born in Cádiz, Spain. In 1787, he was promoted to commanding general of Texas, Coahuila, Nuevo León, and Nuevo Santander. In 1790, he successfully led Spanish soldiers against Apache forces at Arroyo de la Soledad, which was renamed in his honor as Cañon de Ugalde. In the mid-19th…

Robusto

12:21 AM

@tchrist Yeah, it's a conundrum.

But it seems to me that we used to have, you know, snowpack and all that.

tchrist

Which means that because the Americans lacked both the /ɣ/ sound spelled G and the /β/ sound spelled B, they got it wrong and now we have a misspelled sity name.

@Robusto The snowback is at 3% of its normal average at this time of year at the CO–NM border.

Robusto

Yes. That is criminal.

tchrist

I was trying to figure where the name came from. Turns out it came from a mistake.

The should have just left it as Encina the way they found it.

Most of those sounds they could probably figure out. :)

They'd probably have misspelled that one too and made it into Encima instead, changing a live oak to atop.

Robusto

Ukrainian volunteer fighters in the east feel abandoned

> Most deaths, he added, were because injured soldiers were not evacuated quickly enough, often waiting as long as 12 hours for transport to a military hospital in Lysychansk, 15 miles away. Sometimes, the men have to carry an injured soldier on a stretcher as far as two miles on foot to find a vehicle, Lapko said. Two vehicles assigned to his company never arrived, he said, and are being used instead by people at military headquarters.

Cerberus

1:06 AM

Yeah, the Ukrainian army is far from perfect.

Robusto

1:35 AM

tchrist

2:32 AM

@Robusto I can see no path out of this nightmare. I have abandoned all hope for our country. Now it cannot be dashed again, because it is gone.

Cerberus

2:43 AM

Perhaps these shootings are a trend that will fade away after a couple of decades.

Muslim terrorism in the West has all but disappeared.

Of course there are some specific reasons for that.

But still.

tchrist

There are more guns in American that humans.

And we let people purchase and possess military gear designed to mow down mass numbers of people.

"after a couple of decades" I'll be dead. Which means there is no hope.

Fuck it.

It's getting worse not better. And these people are beginning to seize
control of local government.

More children are gunned down in America every year than police officers.

Expecting me to wait for my death before it can be fixed is insane.

This country no longer functions. It has no democracy. There is no longer a government of, for, and by the people.

Because this is something that our system has rendered impossible to fix.

We're ruled by the minority oligarchs. The Senate is incapable of doing anything. We have no government left.

They're all ok with this. They think it's the price we have to pay "for our freedom".

Like no nation on earth.

Cerberus

3:02 AM

I think this is in/about America.

tchrist

We've had more than 200 mass shootings in America this year. And today is day 122.

Cerberus

Gun ownership seems to be down from the 90s.

tchrist

It doesn't matter what people want. We're ruled by the oligarchy.

Cerberus

It is indeed tragic.

There does seem to be national support for stricter gun laws.

tchrist

That doesn't matter.

This is the point.

It's impossible to get anything to happen. Not a single Republican can ever say anything against guns, or else they will not have a job anymore. Because the rabid 10% controls everything, and will rally their troops against them.

The Supreme Court is about to invalidate a New York law restricdting concealed weapons.

There's plenty of crap that 90% of the public wants THAT CAN NEVER HAPPEN.

Cerberus

3:07 AM

How can these 10% have so much power?

tchrist

Isn't that something!?

Because of our primary system.

Cerberus

Do you ever have referenda?

tchrist

Because of Trump, a minority president, packing the Supreme Court with young justices for life whom the nutjobs vetted. And who are upholding their supporters' crazinesses.

No, we cannot have national referenda. It's not in the U.S. Constitution.

We can only statewide or lower plebiscites.

Cerberus

If parliament and government should commit to abiding by a referendum, they could organise one.

tchrist

Haha.

Cerberus

3:10 AM

The concept would probably need to be popularised first...

tchrist

No government will ever surrender power.

Cerberus

We introduced a new referendum law, I think about two decades ago.

tchrist

The patricians will never allow themselves to be overruled by the plebs.

Cerberus

Of course it was abolished recently when government and parliament didn't like the results...

tchrist

Not in the Constitution. So the law will be invalidated by the bad guys.

Cerberus

3:11 AM

It was an 'advisory referendum'.

tchrist

We are helpless. Completely helpless.

Cerberus

So government could ignore the result.

But ignoring it was politically very difficult.

So governments can voluntarily organise and submit to the result of a referendum.

tchrist

Remember Boulder was the site of a mass shooting only a little more than a year ago. And we had laws. It's useless.

And they overruled our laws.

Cerberus

That's saddening.

tchrist

Stop selling guns. Take them back. And destroy them. Let them use sticks and stones.

You shouldn't let people own bazookas and howitzers and machine guns.

Cerberus

3:14 AM

That would be nice.

Or knives.

Such people use knives here.

It's mainly organised crime that uses guns.

Including terrorists who get financial and organisational support from far away.

tchrist

And how many mass shooting per day do YOU have in your country?

Cerberus

Very few.

tchrist

We've only had 200 in 122 days.

Cerberus

Yeah it's a lot.

tchrist

Take all the guns. Enough.

Cerberus

3:16 AM

If enough people cared enough, that could be done.

tchrist

No!!

The system is rigged.

It just can't.

It doesn't matter what people want. This is the point. All that matters is what the powers and the nutters want.

Cerberus

If 80% of the people want this, candidates for elected offices would need to commit to it. And they could change the constitution.

tchrist

80% isn't enough.

Cerberus

But I think the majority is perhaps not great enough, and not clear enough.

tchrist

It's rigged. You cannot be a Republican, period, and say a word against guns.

It's how our primary system works.

Cerberus

3:18 AM

Not now, because anti-gun laws aren't popular enough, I'd say.

tchrist

GAh.

Only 10% is enough to stop all progress.

We can't win this. It's done.

Cerberus

10% shouldn't be able to stop a change of the constitution?

tchrist

haha

10% is enough to guarantee that only their supporters get elected.

And those supporters will never allow you to try.

Cerberus

But only because enough people don't care enough about this subject, right?

tchrist

No, that's not why.

People care. Most people care.

It doesn't matter.

Cerberus

3:20 AM

Perhaps not enough.

tchrist

Because they don't get to vote for anything.

Cerberus

If this became the first priority of all voters.

tchrist

VOTERS DO NOT MATTER.

How many times do I have to explain that?

Cerberus

It's bed time for me.

I wish you hope.

tchrist

Hope to die before it gets worse.

Cerberus

3:22 AM

Go distract yourself.

Pet the cats.

tchrist

ok

Cerberus

And sleep.

tchrist

That's a problem.

I keep dreaming I get shot.

Cerberus

Yeah nightmares suck.

I take a pill and try to get back to sleep.

tchrist

I haven't found a pill that takes my dreams away.

But my country has done that for me.

Cerberus

3:24 AM

One that will at least get you back to sleep.

I dream I get shot regularly too.

Or 1001 other bad things.

They stick with you for a while even if you get up.

M.A.R.

8:15 AM

@Cerberus I always dream I'm being chased.

Four out of five times by a T-rex

jlliagre

8:32 AM

@tchrist English created an indefinite article from a numeral while most western European languages kept them identical (ein, een, uno, un...). Anyway, my typo spoiled the pun. The Spanish word was impar : impair, odd...

Vikas

I get a dream of a dog biting me, very very often.

Almost every month.

CowperKettle

9:32 AM

Word of the day: browser (a type of a herbivorous animal that specializes in eating leaves, fruits of high-growing woody plants, soft shoots and shrubs)

Vikas

10:04 AM

'Safari browser'

Robusto

12:12 PM

@M.A.R. I had a vivid dream of that when I was about 10 or 11. I still remember it to this day.

#Worldle #127 2/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

________________
Wordle 343 4/6

⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜
⬜🟨⬜⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

M.A.R.

1:14 PM

> Wordle 343 3/6

🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨
🟨🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

CowperKettle

1:25 PM

#Worldle #127 X/6 (97%)
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜↙️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↙️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬆️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↖️
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

I got as close as 426km

Vikas

1:59 PM

#Worldle #127 4/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛↘️
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛↙️
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

@CowperKettle If they had given area of the countries as well, it would have been easier. The map looked familiar but I expected it a bigger country.

Much bigger infact.

Robusto

2:16 PM

@CowperKettle Another amorphous country.

jlliagre

3:07 PM

#Worldle #127 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

I was lucky!

Wordle 343 6/6

⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜
🟩⬜🟩⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Robusto

3:25 PM

Wordle (ES) #142 X/6

⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
⬜🟩⬜⬜🟩
⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩
⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩
⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩

https://wordle.danielfrg.com/

This one was stupid.

Faheem Mitha

4:16 PM

:61217952 One could write "an English chemist called Frederick Challenger". But yes, "the English chemist Frederick Challenger" would be better than the same sentence with an "an".

@CowperKettle Stainless steel would also work. It's currently in process here. (In theory.)

Robusto

@FaheemMitha I wouldn't say that was necessarily "better"; sometimes, for variety, you would wish to use "An English chemist, Fred Challenger, ..." or "Fred Challenger, an English chemist, ..." etc.

By the way, do English chemists work to understand how English is affected by the elements? Discuss.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto I guess a comma there could work. Personally I'd go with something a wee more explicit.

But this sort of thing really amounts to personal taste.

Robusto

What I'm saying.

It's all about voice.

That's something that never gets discussed on ELU: How do you acquire and maintain an interesting voice? I suppose that's a better fit for Writing. Still, the fact that it's not "allowed" leads to all kinds of questions about which phrasing is "better" on this site.

M.A.R.

5:33 PM

@Robusto no, they study collocations

Robusto

@M.A.R. What are the valences on those?

M.A.R.

Well you put them into groups first. Group I consisting of alkaline nouns, group II consisting of alkaline Earth prepositions, and so on

Group VII is clausogens

They like reacting with alkaline nouns

Nooow we're stretching it

I'm supposed to be writing an essay on CRISPR

Robusto