5:47 PM
@Xanne Our custodial tricanid questioned whether any of us here posting incognito wouldn't give himself away. I said that you would not, because you couldn't do that in the first place. You seem to me more someone who would have to post incognita to give herself away. :)
What a curious word is gingseng!
It's quite nearly the only semi-native -eng word in English.
> Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈdʒɪnsɛŋ/, U.S. /ˈdʒɪnˌsɛŋ/, /ˈdʒɪnˌsɪŋ/
Origin: Of multiple origins. Partly a borrowing from Latin. Partly a borrowing from French. Etymons: Latin ginsem; French ginseng.
Etymology: Partly (i) < post-classical Latin ginsem, ginseng (both uninflected: see note), and partly (ii) < French ginseng (see note), both < Chinese (Hokkien) jîn-sim and its Mandarin equivalent rénshēn (with a 17th-cent. pronunciation) < rén person (probably on account of the forked shape of the root, resembling the legs of a person and also the Chinese character for this word) + -shēn, denoti…
It turns out that "m" was sometimes used to transcribe Chinese /ŋ/ in some texts, probably reflecting the Portuguese practice of doing the same!
> Form history.
The uninflected post-classical Latin form ginsem (1654 in the passage translated in quot. 1654) probably reflects either the Chinese word directly (as transcribed by the Italian author) or Portuguese jinsém , †ginsem (although this is first attested slightly later: 1657 as ginse ; probably directly < Chinese); compare the early English form ginsem and also the French forms †ginsem (1667 in a translation from Portuguese) and †gins (apparently showing reinterpretation of the letters -em as a Latin case ending; 1654 in a translation of the Latin passage also translated in quot…
> French ginseng (1663 in the work reviewed in quot. 1666) and uninflected post-classical Latin ginseng (1674 in the work reviewed in quot. 1677 at sense 1b) apparently reflect a separate set of borrowings < the same Chinese word (which is cited as ginseng in a Latin context in 1668). Compare Italian ginseng (1671), Dutch ginseng (1670), and German Ginseng (1689 or earlier)
> Forms of this type may have arisen from misinterpretation of the final m of the Chinese word, since m was also used to write Chinese /ŋ/ in some early European texts (although not by Martini), probably reflecting Portuguese phonology.
> Forms with -ng in the first syllable (e.g. gengzeng, gingseng) show assimilation to the final consonant.
In the β. forms probably influenced by forms of the word in other varieties of Chinese; perhaps compare (Cantonese) yàhn sām .
The forms gniseng and guiseng apparently originated as typographical errors which were subsequently copied into other texts.
Former synonym.
In 17th-cent. English, the plant was also sometimes known as e.g. ninzin or nisi (1685; compare quot. 1692 at sense 1b), which ultimately reflects transmission of the same Chinese word via Japanese; these forms have pa…
> Forms: α. 1600s genseg (transmission error), 1600s gniseng (nonstandard), 1600s–1700s gensing, 1600s–1800s ginsem, 1600s 1800s guiseng (nonstandard), 1600s– genseng, 1600s– ginseng, 1700s gengzeng, 1700s ghinschenn, 1700s ginzeng, 1700s ginzing, 1700s jensing, 1700s jingseng, 1700s–1800s jingsing, 1700s–1900s ginsing, 1800s jinchen, 1800s jinseng, 1800s jinsing, 1900s– gingseng. β. 1700s ginson, 1700s– ginsang, 1800s dsindsom, 1800s gensang, 1800s–1900s ginshang, 1800s–1900s jinshang.
This super-wild variety of spellings isn't even the result we see that comes from all the different varieties of spellings in Middle English. These ones here are all from Modern English.
Ginseng ou jinsém se refere a uma ou mais espécies de plantas do gênero Panax usadas como erva medicinal como as espécies Panax ginseng, Panax japonicus etc, consideradas como "ginseng verdadeiro".Além de P. ginseng, muitas outras plantas também são conhecidos como ou confundidas com a raiz de ginseng. Os exemplos mais comuns são xiyangshen, (Panax. quinquefolius), ginseng-japonês (Panax japonicus), (Pseudostellaria heterophylla) e ginseng-da-sibéria (Eleutherococcus senticosus). Apesar de todos serem chamados de ginseng, cada planta tem diferentes funções distintas. Entretanto, as plantas que...
As a Portuguese (re)spelling, jimsém makes more sense to me than the borrowed one.
Same that Spanish uses both the foreign spelling ginseng as well as the respelled ginsén that fits better with their orthograhy.
> 1808 C. Vancouver Gen. View Agric. Devon v. 117 The [plough-]beam..is seven feet long, furnished at the head with an horizontal and vertical graduated wang of rack-work.
1888 F. T. Elworthy W. Somerset Word-bk. Wang, or Weng. 1. A strong iron fixed to the front end of the beam [of a plough], having notches by which the end of the foot-chain..is adjusted,..as may be needful, according to the width of furrow desired... 2. Of a cart—the iron loop or staple upon each shaft, to which is hooked on the chain of the vore-horse.
Cool, they had forehorses back then.
> ginseng
Voz ingl., y esta del chino jên shên 'planta hombre'.
1. m. Planta herbácea de la familia de las araliáceas, originaria de Corea, de cuya raíz, gruesa y ramificada, se extrae una sustancia utilizada como tónico y estimulante.
"Voz inglesa" here means an English word (gloss), not an English voice. :)
So jên shên is man plant? Cool.
Oh the DRAE doesn't have the ginsén re-spelling at all.
There used to be a word dreng for an historical type of tenant in Northumbria.
I mean, it's still a word by only in frequency band 2, so almost nobody would know it.
> Origin: A borrowing from early Scandinavian. Etymon: Norse drengr.
Etymology: Old English dreng, Old Norse drengr young man, lad, fellow, (Swedish dräng man, servant, some one's ‘man’, Danish dreng boy, lad, apprentice). The modern word, had it survived in living use, would have been dring; but the Old English and Norse form dreng is retained by historical writers.(Show Less)
English History.
a. A free tenant (specially) in ancient Northumbria, holding by a tenure older than the Norman Conquest, the nature of which was partly military, partly servile. See Maitland, ‘Northumbrian Tenures’…
Interesting that it would have changed: “The modern word, had it survived in living use, would have been dring; but the Old English and Norse form dreng is retained by historical writers.”
Who here lacks the Bengal–bangle merger?
> 1864 G. A. Sala in Daily Tel. 10 June Clad in Tyrian purple, bangled and braided.
1884 Harper's Mag. Sept. 530/2 Gold-bangled sleeve.
What don't we spell it Inglish?
If dreng would have become dring, why wouldn't English have become Inglish? It's certainly pronounced that way.
Of course, it did start out as Ænglish. Still.
Anklish would be something like an ankle. :)
Angrish means you're a bit peeved at the Brits.
> Etymology: < England, the name of the southern part of Great Britain (excluding Wales) < the genitive of Engle n. + land n.1 Compare English adj., English n. Compare also Angle n.3, Engle n.
> 1. The Angles (Angle n.3 1), considered collectively.
eOE tr. Bede Eccl. Hist. (Tanner) v. ix. 408 Ðara cynna monig he wiste in Germanie wesan, þonon Ongle [OE Corpus Oxf. Engle; L. Angli] & Seaxan cumene wæron, ðe nu Breotone eardiað.
eOE Battle of Brunanburh (Parker) 70 Siþþan eastan hider Engle and Seaxe up becoman, ofer brad brimu Brytene sohtan.
OE Death of Edward (Tiber. B.i) 11 Hæleða wealdend, weold wel geþungen Walum and Scottum and Bryttum eac, byre Æðelredes, Englum and Sexum, oretmægcum.
The Englethede was the English people.
Maybe Englethedes plural.
> Origin: A word inherited from Germanic.
Etymology: Cognate with Old Icelandic Englar (compare also Old High German Angil- , Engil- , an element in personal names) < Angel (Danish Angel , German Angeln ), the name of a district in Schleswig in northern Germany and southern Denmark, believed to be the original home of the Angles (see Angle n.3), of uncertain origin, but often suggested to derive ultimately < the same Germanic base as angle n.1 on account of its shape. Compare later Angle n.3, East Angle n., and East Anglian adj.
"the name of a district in Schleswig in northern Germany and southern Denmark, believed to be the original home of the Angles"
> England and English (and their derivatives) are the only instances in modern standard English in which the spelling with e has been retained in words showing raising of Middle English ĕ to ĭ before /ŋɡ/ (see further E. J. Dobson Eng. Pronunc. 1500–1700 (ed. 2, 1968) II. §77, and compare e.g. wing n., string n., and the forms cited at those entries).
Yes ok then. It's a unique case.
