English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

2:02 AM

@CaptainBohemian Then you should wear warmer clothes. :) The solstice is still three weeks away, and it will grow even colder. I believe we will see +16F here tonight. Not a good time to run around without long underwear.

But I know what you mean. It can be a biting cold that makes you tighten up and feel small and vulnerable.

tchrist

3:26 AM

Feb 2 '14 at 2:24, by tchrist

When winter first begins to bite
     and stones crack in the frosty night,
when pools are black and trees are bare,
     ’tis evil in the Wild to fare.

Faheem Mitha

7:03 AM

@tchrist That reminds me of:

When icicles hang by the wall,
And Dick the shepherd blows his nail,
And Tom bears logs into the hall,
And milk comes frozen home in pail,
When blood is nipped, and ways be foul,
Then nightly sings the staring owl,
Tu-who;
Tu-whit, tu-who: a merry note,
While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

When all aloud the wind doth blow,
And coughing drowns the parson's saw,
And birds sit brooding in the snow,
And Marian's nose looks red and raw,
When roasted crabs hiss in the bowl,
Then nightly sings the staring owl,

I haven't thought of that for many years, and don't remember where I read it. Possibly in school.

Færd

9:16 AM

Faheem Mitha

9:43 AM

@tchrist Oh, that's Tolkien.

@Færd I don't think "fell in a hole" is standard. It might be incorrect usage.

@Færd I think you can just post the link directly.

Faheem Mitha

10:22 AM

Maybe "fell into a hole" would be ok.

Conrado

@FaheemMitha Not Tolkien, Shakespeare! From Love's Labour's Lost.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado I meant the stanza that @tchrist posted.

See the reply link.

@Conrado I'm aware of the origin of what I posted.

Conrado

Ah, my bad.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado That's fine.

That little ditty is actually quite easy to understand, despite having been written over 400 years ago.

Except for "When blood is nipped, and ways be foul", perhaps.

Conrado

@FaheemMitha Yes, but even "nipped blood" seems to make sense in context.

Faheem Mitha

10:27 AM

I think I must have "done" it in school, because I remember that "saw" in this case supposedly refers to the parson's sermon. "saw" means something like monotonous talking, I think.

@Conrado What does it mean?

Hmm, a quick check suggests that "saw" is another word for sermon. If so, that's clearly archaic. I've never heard that usage.

Matt E. Эллен

Most often heard these days in the phrase "old saw"

Faheem Mitha

@MattE.Эллен I thought that was something like "saying".

Conrado

I just saw it in a definition somewhere, referring to a sermon

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Ah.

Conrado

I might remember later where.

Matt E. Эллен

10:30 AM

@FaheemMitha that's true. I assume they came from the same place

Faheem Mitha

@MattE.Эллен Variant usage, perhaps.

Perhaps that little poem is still comprehensible because the author deliberately chose to write it simply, unlike much of his writing.

Conrado

@FaheemMitha "blood is nipped"--passive voice. The cold is nipping my blood.

I am reminded of the childhood outings in Northern PA, USA

in December, walking over frozen creeks under snowy branches.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Nipping as in freezing?

As in nipped toes?

Conrado

Nip: "to injure or make numb with cold" : chill The wind was nipping our cheeks.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nip

third entry

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Ok.

Conrado

10:37 AM

When you come in by the fire,

Faheem Mitha

So that's the same usage, then?

Conrado

you have to warm your fingers slo-oo-owly

Faheem Mitha

We don't get a lot of cold weather here. I experienced some for a bit, mostly in Chicago. I didn't enjoy it.

Conrado

Well, I can't speak for Shakespeare about his usage,

but that's what the whole picture feels like to me.

We don't get that kind of cold in Mid-Southern Chile, either.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Is that where you live?

Conrado

10:40 AM

yes.

Faheem Mitha

Ah. Bombay, India here.

Conrado

goo.gl/maps/XzkAazeMA3bAsi1B7

Faheem Mitha

How are things in Chile?

Conrado

Things?

We live in the almost-country

small town,

Faheem Mitha

Your SE profile says you moved from the US to South America. It's usually the other way around.

@Conrado Conditions.

Conrado

10:42 AM

So are still busy

Faheem Mitha

As in, is your country in collapse, or holding its own?

India is a basket case, and getting worse.

Conrado

I thought that's what you meant...

I mean, the country is trying to look like it holds its own,

Faheem Mitha

I remember talking to someone who was living in Chile (I think it was). She said Chile was basically at First World levels. She compared it to Italy, I think.

Conrado

but I work in a hardware store,

Faheem Mitha

Unless I got it confused with another country.

The lady was Indian. From Kerala, I think. She was working from MIT, I think.

Conrado

10:43 AM

and half of the stuff that we were selling last year

isn't available from the distributors

anymore.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Local distributors?

Conrado

Yes, local and national. And we don't know if it will come back.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado That looks really pretty.

Conrado

A lot of hardware is made in India, or in China, and imported here.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Oh. Why is that?

Conrado

10:46 AM

Hinges and so on.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Huh. That's a long way. Why doesn't Chile manufacture its own stuff?

Conrado

Because Chile has stricter worker protection laws.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Oh. So more expensive?

Conrado

Yes, that is why a lot of "developed" countries outsource labour.

I'm sorry, it amounts to abuse in the long run.

Anyhow, although I've never been to europe,

I would guess that the Italy comparison

is close, based on what I've read, seen in pictures, and heard from

others.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Hmm, ok. So maybe it was Chile she was living in.

Are any other SA countries at a similar level?

Indian doesn't have functional worker protection laws. There might be stuff on paper. In practice anything goes. Including quite extreme abuse, probably.

Conrado

10:50 AM

Yes, but for different reasons.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Different reasons?

Conrado

I mean the different levels of development are for different reasons.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Different levels between SA countries?

Conrado

Venezuela was a very rich country compared to it's neighbors about twenty

years ago. Due to it's vast natural resources.

Read: oil

And Chile is one of the biggest copper "producers" in the world

(Actually, they just dig it out of the ground)

And when the stuff gets harder to mine,

or is administered badly,

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Is that still the case?

Conrado

10:54 AM

I think so.

Faheem Mitha

Mineral exports aren't dependable in the long run. Because one runs out.

Conrado

Exactly

But Chile is dependant on those exports,

Faheem Mitha

It's also an ecological and humanitarian catastrophe, more often than not.

@Conrado That sucks.

Conrado

and the exploitation of those resources is still strong,

which is why Chile hasn't felt the depression as deeply as some.

Faheem Mitha

In India, they typically do it by murdering or displacing the people living there.

Conrado

10:55 AM

Yet.

Faheem Mitha

Which is, needless to say, undesirable for all sorts of reasons.

Conrado

Again, I'm sorry on behalf of the human race,

Faheem Mitha

One needs something scalable and sustainable.

How is clean energy investment in Chile?

That's a growth industry.

Conrado

It's starting to move some:

stuff like this: aelaenergia.cl/centrales-eolicas

But clean energy is as much about efficient use

as about generation,

And there isn't a clean-energy culture here yet.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Yes, both things matter.

I was just wondering about development aspects.

Conrado

11:01 AM

I have to admit that I haven't been following it as closely as I should,

I only know that there are governmental incentives to use (and develop) solar and wind-based energy sources.

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado No reason why you should. Unless you're thinking of working or investing in the area.

@Conrado Germany has feed-in tariffs.

So they buy people's electricity.

Conrado

I think that's clever,

"grass-rooting" the generation part.

Faheem Mitha

I'm not sure how long that is going to continue.

German people would probably know more about it.

Conrado

It's hard to say!

I must go to work now,

thanks for chatting!

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Nice talking to you.

Conrado

11:05 AM

Have a wonderful afternoon/evening!

Cheers!

Faheem Mitha

@Conrado Thank you.

CowperKettle

12:24 PM

The Brits have approved the first vaccine ever. An historical day. Or maybe a historical day. Worthy of being writ in onionskin annals.

@CaptainBohemian I thought you lived in China, where the weather is warm. Minus 8 is quite chilly.

St. Petersburg, the former capital of Russia

CowperKettle

1:01 PM

@Conrado Whoa! You live so far! The only time I came across a real person from Chile.

Faheem Mitha

1:19 PM

India, where terrorism suspects become MPs. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

2

I had not previously heard of this woman. She was mentioned in this Time article I'm reading.

time.com/5586415/india-election-narendra-modi-2019

It's a good read. In response, Modi's Govt stripped the author of his OCI card.

That's Overseas Citizen of India.

The article is a lot friendlier towards the creatures of the RSS than a lot of people would be. Fair-minded to a fault, I'd say.

@CowperKettle Lots of people live in Chile, I think.

@CowperKettle A long time ago, wasn't it?

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle I swear AskReddit is one of the dumbest places to be (not the most toxic, obviously)

I have joined two dozen Reddits for the quick laugh or random tidbits, but I can't ever get myself to join that one

@FaheemMitha welcome to my world

Faheem Mitha

1:38 PM

@M.A.R. I want to live in some other world. Does anyone know of any magic portals?

@M.A.R. It's certainly not a substantial discussion forum in general. One step above Youtube comments, I'd say.

CowperKettle

@M.A.R. Ah! I came across it on Facebook

@FaheemMitha Russia, where a hitman who commited a terrorist act using a military-grade radioactive agent is a Member of Parliament en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Lugovoy

Further, he did this on orders from Vladimir Putin. Thus we have a president who is a well-known paymaster of killers.

Robusto

2:32 PM

@FaheemMitha Magic portals? You can find plenty in books. Not in the real world, alas.

Faheem Mitha

3:12 PM

@Robusto I still search hopefully at the backs of wardrobes.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Yeah, but who wants a portal to a Christian fantasy?

2

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle What a wonderful world we live in.

@Robusto A snowy lantern waste, with the odd fawn or badger, would make a change.

Also, I hear that Good triumphs there.

@CowperKettle I feel the real world is making thriller novelists redundant.

Robusto

Trouble is, good has no capital G. There are only small acts and tender mercies.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle This guy really poisoned someone with a radioactive substance? You know, I think I might of heard of that. Unless it's a common method of assassination nowadays.

Does assassination really have four s's? That must have escaped my attention.

@Robusto Someone should tell the Christians that.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Christians have this attitude that it's their Way or the highway.

Faheem Mitha

3:20 PM

@Robusto I guess I'll go with the Highway.

Robusto

That's what I did, and never looked back.

Faheem Mitha

I wish someone would occasionally express shock at my news, instead of telling me about other stuff like that.

Something along the lines of - Good Gracious! I never! etc. etc.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha If you want that stuff, go look at greeting cards. If you want genuine reactions, you're in the right place.

I am helpless to affect the outcome of a single outrage in Russia.

And I've never once said "Good gracious!" in my life. That has to be the thinnest comfort someone can offer.

If it were a blanket, it wouldn't even cover your toes.

Faheem Mitha

In other news, Indian transport unions are threatening to go on strike if the govt doesn't meet the farmer's demands.

@Robusto I'm old fashioned.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Good gracious!

Feel better now?

Faheem Mitha

3:25 PM

@Robusto Thanks.

Robusto

No problem.

Faheem Mitha

The way things are going, I estimate we are maybe 2 years away from either (a) a fascist dictatorship or (b) civil war.

I wish I had a fallout shelter or something.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Maybe you'll get both.

Faheem Mitha

Actually, there is a room in this building that supposedly served that function once.

But the govt sealed it up when they arrested my cousin.

Robusto

Things fall apart, as Yeats said.

Faheem Mitha

3:28 PM

Also, it's full of documents.

@Robusto Indeed, one must always look on the Bright Side of Life.

@Robusto The center cannot hold?

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Correct.

Too Many People (Remastered 2012)

►

See, there's a song about that.

CowperKettle

3:43 PM

Robusto

3:58 PM

Igor's Asymmetry Racket

►

@RegDwigнt: You might like this ^

It's in two parts.

Heavily edited. I'd like to find the whole presentation.

CowperKettle

4:25 PM

> A major Russian TV network has broadcast a racist caricature of Barack Obama, using an actress in blackface to play the former U.S. president in a sketch - a good explanatory video in English

CowperKettle

4:56 PM

Poland inside Texas

RegDwigнt

6:08 PM

@Robusto it's from The Unanswered Question, his series of six lectures at Harvard, 1973, or maybe even more, but six is how many of them are up on YouTube in their entirety. I binge-watched them maybe a bit more than a year ago and left a couple links here.

The two videos you've seen are very, very heavily edited indeed (not to their detriment, mind), quoting bits and pieces from as far as I can tell at least three different lectures.

The Unanswered Question 1973 6 The Poetry Of Earth Bernstein Norton

►

So here's a direct link to the bit in the lecture where he talks about the chord extensions and the tritone. But then the lecture veeres off into a completely different direction (Debussy) from what you've heard in the edited version.

Anyway. I do suggest you start at the beginning and watch them all in order. It's a lot. Like maybe eight hours in total. Maybe ten. But in the end you'll be left demanding more.

Apr 14 '19 at 20:27, by RegDwigнt

The Unanswered Question 1973 1 Musical Phonology Bernstein Norton

►

Apr 14 '19 at 20:27, by RegDwigнt

And then while you're at it, just watch the whole thing. Kthxbai.

Captain Bohemian

6:35 PM

@tchrist don't know how much is +16F. We always use Celsius. Today seems to be colder, but I only feel my hands too cold. It also snows slightly. The slight snow started around one week and less ago, I think.

CowperKettle

6:47 PM

> Ancient Egyptian architect: "Do you know how to build a pyramid?"
Ancient Egyptian builder: "Well, yeah, up to a point."

CowperKettle

7:19 PM

By one estimate, as much as 40,000 tons of cosmic dust reach the Earth's surface every year and you find it on your home's roof too.

Interesting.

80 800 000 tons of cosmic dust has arrived on Earth since the birth of Christ

Robusto

7:34 PM

@CowperKettle But who's counting?

CowperKettle

@Robusto There must be some ways to estimate this. I'm also curious how they do it.

Robusto

And why 1 AD as a starting point?

I'm finding it hard to care about any of this measurement.

CowperKettle

Cirrus SR22

The Cirrus SR22 is a single-engine four- or five-seat composite aircraft built from 2001 by Cirrus Aircraft of Duluth, Minnesota. It is a development of the Cirrus SR20, with a larger wing, higher fuel capacity, and a more powerful, 310-horsepower (231 kW) engine. The SR22 series has been the world's best-selling general aviation (GA) airplane every year since 2003. With 6,149 units delivered from 2001–19, and in combination with the SR20, a total of 7,645, it is the most-produced GA aircraft of the 21st century, and is the single most-produced GA aircraft made from composite material, accounting...

A cool plane, it has an in-built parachute.

Thus, the lowest fatality rate.

Robusto

Not necessarily.

Most airplane accidents happen on landings and takeoffs. If you're already to committed to one or the other, the parachute ain't gonna save ya.

CowperKettle

> The accident rate continued to decrease in 2014, with a fatal rate of .42 per 100,000 flight hours, one of the industry's lowest. This marked the fewest fatalities in a single year for Cirrus since 2001, and the first year where the number of CAPS deployments (12) exceeded the number of fatal accidents (3).

Yes, I know. Landings and takeoffs

Cirrus Parachute Rescue Caught on Tape

►

But still it saves some lives

Robusto

7:53 PM

I was reading about the air war in the Pacific during WWII. The attrition in actual combat wasn't greater than that due to maintenance problems. An engine would conk out on take off and bang, dead pilot. A drop tank wouldn't drop and the soon-to-be-dead pilot was an easy target. Fuel lines developed leaks and flyers would ditch in the ocean, never to be seen again.

And the maintenance crews were vastly overworked and under-appreciated. The pilots got the glory, the mechanics just got more work, increased pace, tighter schedules.

M.A.R.

9:46 PM

An apt analogy for most things IRL I guess

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